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XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 04:59 PM
I played online yesterday for the first time. I thought I was a decent pilot, but I was mistaken. I think maybe 2 or 3 of the thousands of rounds I fired actually hit something. I was probably shot down 25 times.

It seems like I can't turn or climb with anyone. I started out using a bf109f4 because that's what I've been flying offline. After no success, I upgraded to the bf109g6/as, then eventually the bf109k. I could not hope to turn with anything in the sky, so I changed to dive and climb tactics. One time I dove down on a target, pulled up at full power, and the guy actually closed on me and blew me out of the sky. I was going over 500km/h.

Another time one pilot flew over to our base and shot 5 guys down, including me twice. Even if we are the worst pilots in the world and he is the best, how can he have enough ammo to shoot down 5 guys?


What am I doing wrong? Do I need to use padlock? Do I need to adjust my fuel mixture and prop pitch? Do I need to use combat flaps?

Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 04:59 PM
I played online yesterday for the first time. I thought I was a decent pilot, but I was mistaken. I think maybe 2 or 3 of the thousands of rounds I fired actually hit something. I was probably shot down 25 times.

It seems like I can't turn or climb with anyone. I started out using a bf109f4 because that's what I've been flying offline. After no success, I upgraded to the bf109g6/as, then eventually the bf109k. I could not hope to turn with anything in the sky, so I changed to dive and climb tactics. One time I dove down on a target, pulled up at full power, and the guy actually closed on me and blew me out of the sky. I was going over 500km/h.

Another time one pilot flew over to our base and shot 5 guys down, including me twice. Even if we are the worst pilots in the world and he is the best, how can he have enough ammo to shoot down 5 guys?


What am I doing wrong? Do I need to use padlock? Do I need to adjust my fuel mixture and prop pitch? Do I need to use combat flaps?

Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 05:07 PM
What were the servers realism settings? If you were playing at Ubi.com then they were almost certainly full unreal which means unlimited ammo. If you were at Hyperlobby then they were probebly medium or higher. Most planes do have enough ammo to down 5 fighters in 1 flight, although it requires some fancy shooting (or cockpit off). As for manuevering, don't try turning in a Bf 109, it doesn't work. I suggest trying to out spiral climb your opponents and when they stall trying to follow you or break off, then strike. A spiral climb is exactly what it sounds like, you enter a slowly spiraling climb, best speed for the Bf 109's is usually around 270km/h for this type of manuever. That means fly at full power and adjust climb rate and turn rate so you maintain 270km/h. What ratio between turn rate and climb rate will vary with different target types and Bf 109 versions.

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
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XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 05:20 PM
"Another time one pilot flew over to our base and shot 5 guys down, including me twice. Even if we are the worst pilots in the world and he is the best, how can he have enough ammo to shoot down 5 guys?"

Yeah...sorry about that.


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 05:31 PM
i dont think u did anything wrong u just need more practise get a feel for u r plane and the plane of ur oponent. a lot of us flying since many years. Dont get upset if u got shoot down just practise practise practise.
Try to be the most hight flying plane then dive down turn a bit and open fire with all your guns taht u have then zoom up again.
And dont get your self in truble stay away from trouble /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 05:35 PM
I was playing on Hyperlobby. It was not unlimited ammo.

Still, even when I try to out climb opponents I get shot down because they close on me, even if I start with a speed advantage.

What is cockpit off, is that where all you see is the crosshairs? I like full realism, I don't like padlock, no cockpit, unlimited ammo, etc.

What's the benifit of adjusting prop pitch and fuel mix?

Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 05:46 PM
First rule in the 109: Don't turn with your opponant (even though I do too often and yes, I get shot down for it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).
BnZ all the way.

Even with the F4 which is one of the best 109s for turning, such engagements should be avoided.

And don't get discouraged. Everyone has a hard time of it online when they first start out. If you're like most people you'll get beat up for months before you get to holding your own. Practice.

Also if you choose to fly mostly LW then it will be harder still since the VVS planes have many TnB (dogfighting) advantages and we all tend to give in to the urge to turn when we shouldn't. Bottomline: BnZ.

I'd also suggest joining a squadron that'll help you along and that really attempts to make use of team tactics.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 05:56 PM
Ideally make sure you practice offline some of the server settings you like to play on.
Its easy to spend time , say looking for where the speedbar went and miss the aircraft zooming in on your six.
If you tend to play in cockpit then do so on a server where everyone else has an unlimited view you'll also be at a disadvantage.

From the LW point of view at first still be best to gain a good deal of altitude and stay away from the low level furball. At any kind of altitude the Russians will struggle to stay with you at all.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 06:20 PM
Don't get discouraged everyone gets seriously owned their first time online. After some practice you will get the hang of it and learn how best to use your weapon against the opponent. I remember when I first went online there was guy in an La5 who was all over the place shooting everyone down .. it got me so frustrated I wanted shoot my monitor. The difference is the offline AI are so predictable that you get a shock when you first engage an online opponent that never stops turning and then turns some more and then even more never leveling out like the AI do for an easy shot. Patience and Practice is the name of the game and who knows pretty soon you will be the guy getting 5 kills a flight.

$.


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Message Edited on 07/01/0305:22PM by HighRollerS

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 06:23 PM
I'm moving to mostly online after playing mostly offline. It's an education to see boom and zoom used well. If 109s try to turn with me, they've had it. If they're b&z'ing me, I start to sweat :-)

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 06:53 PM
Fly the yak3. You'll find your skill will increase dramatically. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 06:57 PM
Achilles97 wrote:
- I was playing on Hyperlobby. It was not unlimited
- ammo.
-
- Still, even when I try to out climb opponents I get
- shot down because they close on me, even if I start
- with a speed advantage.
-
- What is cockpit off, is that where all you see is
- the crosshairs? I like full realism, I don't like
- padlock, no cockpit, unlimited ammo, etc.
-
- What's the benifit of adjusting prop pitch and fuel
- mix?
-
- Thanks!

Welcome to the FR camp.

As to your prop pitch and mixture question.

In adjusting your pitch you are attempting to optimize your engine's power with the pitch of the blades relative to your airspeed. Many liken it to shifting gears on a car.
At a standstill on takeoff having your prop coarsened to take big bites out of the air isn't going to be efficient in getting you moving. That would be like trying to start out in 4th gear. So having it set to 100 or 95% (fine) will help get you moving and climbing. As you begin to go faster you can coarsen the pitch to more efficiently create thrust. There is a point, however, where further coarsening relative to your speed will hinder acceleration rather than help. To optimize cruise you can adjust pitch and power settings to increase range (fuel economy). Pay attention to RPMs and learn best settings for diff. situations. Having the prop in fine pitch during a dive will cause the engine to over-rev and then BANG! No more engine. Coarsen pitch (and reduce power) in a dive to keep that from happening which also helps keep the speed under control so as not to reach structural limits.

When pulling out of the dive reduce pitch and apply power accordingly.

Usually most efficient cruise is about 2100RPM. T/O and combat between 2500-3000. Don't stay at or above 3000 for long otherwise that's it for your engine. Optimal is at around 2500. There is a site that lists the best RPM settings for all the diff. planes in FB but I don't have it handy. Someone will no doubt give it to you.

Quickly, where mixture is concerned. As you climb higher atmospheric pressure drops and you need to "lean out" your mixture to take in more air. I believe the rule of thumb here is reduce mixture about 10-15% at around 3000 meters and the same amount additionally for every thousand meters higher you climb.

Others will refine and I'm sure correct what I've written here. Hope it helps.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:02 PM
Keep with it, the learning curve in Il-2/FB is much harder than just about any other air sim. There are lots of factors that come into play that do not have any bearing on whether you're a good cyber-pilot too. Computer and connections speed, lag, video cards and settings, your opponents puters, connections and equipment,your controller sensitivity settings, and like another poster mentioned, the difficulty settings of the hosted game. It may take several weeks of frustration and dozens of tweaks to the game before you're comfortable. And then you'll have to readjust all over again sometime down the line, LOL!

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XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:02 PM
Puck1 wrote:
- Fly the yak3. You'll find your skill will increase dramatically. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



You mean the nOOb-3?


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XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:08 PM
Same here.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Just played online for the first time yesterday. After being shot so many times, I decided to think otherwise.... Went to Stuka and waited for my first prey... Soon enough I had one in my tail firing like a madman. Simple evasive was enough to throw him off track for a few second and my super gunner did the rest.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Like said before, just practice I just got the game, Can't be an expert right now, just logical. Don't think you're bad, just inexperienced.....

Stef

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:11 PM
I personally find it very easy or very hard to shoot people down, I know from the minute I engage. Except for new players getting a kill against a reasonably good player is HARD. I was in a 109G6 the other day and tangled for a good 4 minutes with a La5 or 7. We kept turning tables on eachother for 3-4 times before we lost eachother /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . Niether of us landed one round. No kills but those kinda fights are so damn exciting that ya get satisfaction even without a kill /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . Okay a few tips:

1. ALT IS LIFE. I usually fly at 4km alt MINIMUM, scanning below for victims.

2. ID you opponent, if he's in a Mig3 and your in a 109G6, don't turn, climb away, and BnZ. If he's in an La7 and your not, JUMP! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . But seriously, know the strengths/weaknesses of each plane.

3. Don''t fire LW cannons until you are 100-200 yards away, trajectories of LW weapons are steep.

4. Fly with friends

5. If #4 then use voicecomm

6. Join a squad





Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

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Message Edited on 07/01/0302:11PM by roybaty

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:13 PM
Most server have external views which make it hard enough to hit anything down by surprise. So use alot of deflection shootin, cuz ur not gonna sneak up on anyone 6 anytime soon with most servers just plain sucking in the realism dept.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:16 PM
"I was going over 500km/h."

this is not even remotely fast for a 109K, downright slow in fact.

When I fly 190A4 in 1942 i'm going faster than that when I dive in on someone.

Not sure about 109s, but in the Dora (all 190s I think) the plane doesn't start shaking till 690, so when diving down on someone you should be well over 600 and still have over 600 when you zoom out. Most late model planes cruise around at over 500 and if he starts faster than you he will catch and pass you in your climb like you are standing still. Even if he is a little bit slower a Yak will catch you in all but the shallowest of climbs (if you pull a steep climb you will bleed E faster than him initially so he catches you). Against LAs and Yaks it won't hurt to just keep diving after your pass to build up to over 700 before climbing.

The biggest adjustment to make online is judging the E state of the planes, it is extremely common to underestimate.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 07:17 PM
Achilles97 wrote:
- Another time one pilot flew over to our base and
- shot 5 guys down, including me twice. Even if we
- are the worst pilots in the world and he is the
- best, how can he have enough ammo to shoot down 5
- guys?


A P-39 has 30 37mm shells in the nose cannon. Theoretically a pilot could shoot down thirty planes with the P-39.


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XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 10:25 PM
When you say coarse prop angle, does that mean the blades flat horizontally or vertically? The way I understand it is the blades flat vertically will allow better acceleration, but flat horizontally will allow better top speed. When I say flat I mean near flat.

So when my prop is at 100%, is that the best for top speed?

I messed around with this once but I blew my engine because I didn't know what I was doing.



About cruise speeds....

I can't get my bf109g or 109k to cruise at over 370km/h flying straight and level at 3000m @ 90% throttle. What am I doing wrong?


Thanks!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:06 AM
well, I dunno I can't help with 109s, I dont fly them.

with 190s set pitch on 100% (A and F series) or auto (D series) radiator closed and 103% throttle, this will give you best speed without overheating (as long as you stay fast, at low speeds will overheat at 103% throttle).

From what little experience I have with 109s it seems that they cannot stay particularly fast wihtout overheating (though they are faster than 190s for awhile until they have to throttle back to avoid engine damage), so you have to manage your time very carefully. This is how I did it in 109G6/AS from IL2:

-take off with full power and radiator closed, climb at 270IAS (Indicated Air Speed), should get to 3000m before overheat.

-level out at desired altitude,throttle back to 70% and open radiator.

-cruise around looking for targets.

-when target spotted close radiator. goto full throttle and engage.

-during engagement keep very aware of your energy state, keeping in mind that a) you cannot stay around long before you have to leave due to hot engine b) you will need to disengage with enough E advantage that you cannot be caught while cooling your engine.

-when I got the overheat message I would start counting aloud to keep track of how much time I had until engine is damaged.

-after disengaging get away from the action and then get some altitude, throttle back and open radiator.

In FB the planes I fly (190s) can fly at max speed (or near enough) without overheating. I would guess that the 109s can endure the overheat message for some time before damage occurs (they have water cooled engines like 190D, which can take 5 minutes or so), so you may need to use a stopwatch rather than counting aloud. In IL2 the 109 could only take maybe 3 minutes at most (I think it was more like 2.5 minutes), hopefully it is much longer now (at least for some models).

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 05:45 AM
Salute Achilles

I was on your server and shot you down a couple times.

I was flying a P-47D27, and both times got you after I had dropped off my 2 500lb and 1 1000lb bombs on the tanks which were targets. (this was a FB Daemon Server)

Your main problem is not your flying skill, but your Situational Awareness. You don't seem to be aware of the aircraft around you.

You tend to fly straight and level for long periods of time, which makes it really easy for someone to line you up. You need to weave and change course every 5 seconds or so when you are in a dangerous area. And make sure you look up in the sky.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You also I noticed, don't climb for altitude too much, and if you are flying the late model heavy 109's, then you can become an easy target at low alts since you can't outturn planes like the La-7.

The guy who was flipping around the airfield shooting down lots of you was flying a La-7, which is an uberplane at low alts, especially when matched against 190D9's and 109K4's which have just taken off from their airfield.

The airfield also didn't have enough defensive flak, which is the fault of the server designer. A few of the fields had flak, but not all.

If I had a reccommendation, it would be for you to fly a 109G2 if you are determined to fly the 109's. It has the best balance of speed and maneuverability of the available 109's. Make sure you load 50% fuel so you are light, but also make sure you check your fuel gauge.

Otherwise I would suggest switching sides and flying the La5FN or La-7. They are basically newbie proof, good speed, hard to stall, great acceleration and climb, and decent turn and roll.

And remember one thing over all:

We all start off flying like rookies, and the only way to get better is to fly a lot. Heck, I've been flying for 5 years in Flight Sims now, and I certainly don't consider myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

If you fly a lot, you'll get better. Simple as that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Cheers RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:03 AM
Salute Achilles

Couple other things:

1) You mention speed. I was doing approx 750-800 kph when I came up behind you in my bounces with the P-47. (that's one of the reasons you didn't see me) Perhaps you can't be going that fast in a 109, but 700kph is a good speed to target. That means you need to set your convergence out further, (if you are flying a plane with wing guns) since you only have a few secs to line up and fire. Having enough speed allows you to get the elevation gain in the zoom which follows your attacking pass.

2) Trimming your plane is crucial to get the maximum speed and also to have a stable firing platform. Your plane should fly hands off level at a cruising speed of approx. 400kph. If you are flying a 109, unfortunately, rudder trim is not an option, and you have to develop an ability to keep the ball centered by applying the correct amounts of rudder with your foot. You can still trim the elevator and ailerons.

The 109 is a tricky plane to fly well, but when you get the hang of it, they are very good killing machines, especially the way they are modelled in FB with none of their historical poor high speed handling characteristics.


Salute RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:14 AM
sucess in a 109 requires PATIENCE

fly well above the dogfights below, wait for a likely opportunity and dive through the furball, no-one will chase you if there are lots of low slow targets

.. ignore any targets that require you to turn more than 45 degrees off track for a shot if nothing come up just extend out and try again

use patience when extending and climbing .. even extend out 10km or more if you need . "mini" B&Z climbing a few hundred metres and swooping again are really just "fighting in the vertical" which helps a little in the 109 --- but is not really what you need

and ignore anyone that calls you chicken or says "come down here and fight" just say "whats wrong with up here" and B&Z as they try and climb http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:44 AM
About the prop pitch in 109s. I remember reading that Oleg has prop pitch modelled incorrectly on some of the planes. Before people start flaming me, I might add that it was a thread, and so the information may not be correct, I'm just passing on what I overheard and find plausible. I've found that the Auto-Prop pitch AC tend to over-rev if the prop is set too high manually and the throttle is opened. In the 109s, I'm beginning to fly my plane with manual prop pitch on the servers and I've found that keeping the prop pitch 10 units of whatever below the throttle setting doesn't overrev the engine and gives you decent power. I don't remember the rmp value, but it's around 2100 rpm. When you open the throttle up and increase prop pitch, you're engine will give off a very high pitched whine that will keep increasing in pitch until you can't hear it. Try MW50 + throttle =105% and prop pitch =95% and then push both higher. Unless you immidiately lower prop pitch, your engine will start smelling like burnt toast as the innards fry themselves.
About servers. Most of the servers I've flown on aren't very realistic. One good server is greatergreen.com They use the FB Deamon and have all the realism settings enabled. Unfortunately, thier maps are huge and most of the time you'll be flying to and fro to your target. It's like a co-op server in that sense. By the way, it's on ubi.com . Why don't you host your own server? You can set your favourite settings, and it isn't hard to learn to control one.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:12 AM
I hear ya, I have been playing on line now for about two weaks. I usualy fly La7 1944 or the Yak1944, sofar they are they are the only planes that I feel comfotable with. The gun sights are nice,the Yak has a very good veiw and manoverablity. La7 has good veiw, its fast and manuvers good. Good plans to fly if your new, like me.
When I take of I set the Prop Pich to 100, magnetos 1+2, Supurcharger 1, Fule Mix 120, Flaps set to take of or combat and Full throttol. When I leave the ground, Gearup, flaps raised and I dont start climbinng till I reach about 300. I try not to climb to steep, just enouph so that I increas speed.
I joined a squad last weak hoping to meet some people and lern a few things.
So far I have had mayby three kills on line. All luck. I have been shot down ... wait i cant count that high.
lol.








Thats all I can realy say cause im still new to this FB or sim thing.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:38 AM
All this is good advice. Listen to your peers. Fly with a squad. Dont compare Quck Mission Builder to online. Ask a good pilot to let you follow him. Play follow the leader. You will see how slow you are and improve on it. Read all you can find and theres plenty out there.
Mostly realize this is going to take some commitment and long range planning if you are going to get good.

I remember my first online fights. Getting my butt handed to me with my tailfeathers on fire. I thought "I been flying offline for a year now!!! Damn" This goes on for a while. But one day you will realize that you are getting better. All the more important,have fun along the way.