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View Full Version : Why make hard/extreme tracks?



rlmergeuser
04-05-2013, 12:29 PM
What's the point of trying to make a good hard/extreme track?
I mean, it's so much easier to make a crappy, barely themed medium speed track right?
You'll get hundreds more downloads and almost guaranteed 5* rating across the board...

You can spend hours making a good hard/extreme tracks, for only a couple of people to even download it, and even fewer actually finish it.

For example XxRajadoxX made an amazing track, very few people have downloaded it and even fewer have finished it.
L6Wt0p9mB5A

While a track with almost 90 degree bends and camera being obscured are given 5* - Rajado's track isn't even 5* rated! WTF! Recently played some crappy Sawmill Sprint track, wow, was that bad.

Also what's with these crappy Wipeout tracks everywhere? It takes no f***ing imagination to basically copy paste obstacles from either the show or other wipeout tracks. Put physics on random obstacles? Check! Put random insta-fault traps? Check! Theme? Who cares it's wipeout right?! GO F YOURSELF. You and your stupid tracks. They make me so mad. By the way, the show becomes rather boring after you see one or two episodes and these s***ty tracks get boring even quicker.

There should be a section for hard/extreme tracks in Track Central, because highest rated are full of crap right now. Most people are too noob or lazy to try anything which requires anything remotely close to effort, they just wanna hold down accelerator and get platinum to make them feel good. They can go play the 99471288 stupid basketball dunking skillgames.

/rant? maybe, maybe

rlmergeuser
04-05-2013, 01:07 PM
There are many fans of extremes and hards including myself on Xbox, preferably technical ones but people make technical tracks for the select few who can bust out an impressive run and use advanced skills, the majority of high-quality extremes on Xbox are highly rated because none of the noobs play the track and lazily rate 3*; the people who rate deserving tracks get through like 5*'s and some 4's. Harder technical tracks and ninjas have higher ratings, some of the highest rated tracks in Evo are ninjas and extremes, only a few thousand perhaps hundred can complete them. Usually on Evo it's the fun easy or medium maps that get highly rated high-quality or not, noobs see it as fun and desreving, when really there are more deserving creators than they think.
In my opinion it is perhaps harder to make technical hard/extreme Driving Lines because it has to be pretty flowy and balanced, on the other hand you can fit more details in on Hards/Ex/Ninjas because the obstacle are usually closer together and the track Numerically is smaller, but that could also be a problem for optimization too, mediums can naturally have less detailed enviroments but there are some people who can be very good with optimization and control to cram things in. Im baffling on but this is just my opinion, i prefer extremes and hards because i can decorate to high-limits compared to others, so to summarise it....opinions.

And for the hard/extreme feed, we didn't get anything like that on Xbox but it would be nice to seperate the content, that would only be useful though if there were actaully and good tracks rather than the odd 1 or 2 so often. http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon/razz.gif

LukeMSki
04-05-2013, 01:10 PM
Guess what? It is never going to change. People have been complaining about this on Xbox for months and nothing has changed. So, you might as well save your breath.

Smeghead89
04-05-2013, 01:22 PM
ratings mean absolutely nothing on track central, its like being given a 5 star rating from a bunch of monkeys and feeling good about it, having only 4 stars is not bad, look on the RLP feeds - rly not many 5 stars in there and these were chosen by redlynx, pretty much if a track is worth 5 stars be sure to expect only 4. The Elmonator seems to receive a lot of 5 stars and this is because he has found a good balance between pleasing the good riders with great lines and also pleasing the noobs with his crazy physics and so both types of riders will rate high for this, but make a great 5 star track with awesome line and scenery and you will inevitably be marked down by thousands of noobs that get frustrated by a pure trials type line. These noobs want crazy physics, huge monsters, aliens abducting you, uber fast enhanced bike engine, with smooth very easy flow where you will not crash or rly need any trials skills.

basically DO NOT expect a 5 star rating ever because your chances are about 1 in 100 or 1000 even if you are a very experienced track builder. All you can hope for is that someone else recognizes its quality and nominates it for a RLP

you will always have extremely great tracks right next to extremely rubbish tracks and we will never get rid of this rubbish, all we can do is try to help the great tracks out by nominating them for picks, none of the rubbish tracks will ever make it to RLP so think of it this way - while they beat us on the highest rated feeds they will never rly get any where other then that http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif

rlmergeuser
04-05-2013, 01:22 PM
Guess what? It is never going to change. People have been complaining about this on Xbox for months and nothing has changed. So, you might as well save your breath.

Wow. You have the worst attitude.
So nothing happened so what? Does that mean we shouldn't at least try to get this implemented?

rlmergeuser
04-05-2013, 01:26 PM
ratings mean absolutely nothing on track central, its like being given a 5 star rating from a bunch of monkeys and feeling good about it, having only 4 stars is not bad, look on the RLP feeds - rly not many 5 stars in there and these were chosen by redlynx, pretty much if a track is worth 5 stars be sure to expect only 4. The Elmonator seems to receive a lot of 5 stars and this is because he has found a good balance between pleasing the good riders with great lines and also pleasing the noobs with his crazy physics and so both types of riders will rate high for this, but make a great 5 star track with awesome line and scenery and you will inevitably be marked down by thousands of noobs that get frustrated by a pure trials type line. These noobs want crazy physics, huge monsters, aliens abducting you, uber fast enhanced bike engine, with smooth very easy flow where you will not crash or rly need any trials skills.

basically DO NOT expect a 5 star rating ever because your chances are about 1 in 100 or 1000 even if you are a very experienced track builder. All you can hope for is that someone else recognizes its quality and nominates it for a RLP

you will always have extremely great tracks right next to extremely rubbish tracks and we will never get rid of this rubbish, all we can do is try to help the great tracks out by nominating them for picks, none of the rubbish tracks will ever make it to RLP so think of it this way - while they beat us on the highest rated feeds they will never rly get any where other then http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif

Yeah I see that.
Tzahrkiya has been making some really good T2SE ports, but i noticed most of his tracks are 4 star rated, some even 3 star! I think these idiots don't understand what T2SE is and maybe if they saw how accurate the remakes were, they'd appreciate it...

Meanwhile on TC... HOLD ACCELERATE TO WIN - 5* - NEED MOAR

cris-tan10
04-05-2013, 01:28 PM
On xbox it's opposite. The crappy ninja tracks get highest rated while the good easy- hard tracks get nothing. It will get better once the players on PC get better.

rlmergeuser
04-05-2013, 01:30 PM
On xbox it's opposite. The crappy ninja tracks get highest rated while the good easy- hard tracks get nothing. It will get better once the players on PC get better.

What do you mean crappy ninja? Like random obstacles to make the track difficult just for the sake of difficulty?

cris-tan10
04-05-2013, 01:40 PM
On xbox it's opposite. The crappy ninja tracks get highest rated while the good easy- hard tracks get nothing. It will get better once the players on PC get better.

What do you mean crappy ninja? Like random obstacles to make the track difficult just for the sake of difficulty?

Ninja tracks with nothing more then an open space and boxes, for example.

TheBlazeJp
04-05-2013, 01:41 PM
Guess what? It is never going to change. People have been complaining about this on Xbox for months and nothing has changed. So, you might as well save your breath.

I would like to think redlynx may eventually listen to the numbers. If we take our foot out nothing will even be considered.

Purely on the levels of effort, amount of passion to the creator and sheer amount of time and attention to detail put into a track with an epic end result

vs

Leagues of mediocre 5/5 tracks which feature A-B hold down the accelerator to finish with obstacles thrown in with no real care or attention

It's a shame that there are so many awesome tracks that get lost.
I'm no expert but I would of thought it wouldn't be too hard to add a new category for both the Xbox and PC.

rlmergeuser
04-05-2013, 01:45 PM
Just really ****ty tracks that get labeled Ninja because you have to fender hook or something , and everybody is all "OMG I PASSED A NINJA HOW SWEET IS THIS 5 STARS"

And then everyone hates Ninja tracks because that's their idea of what a Ninja track is

nannerdw
04-05-2013, 02:21 PM
5* ratings are self-replicating, too. If someone sees that a track has 5 stars, they're much more likely to say "Hey, that was pretty cool, I'll give it 5 stars too." Whereas, if they see a 4* or lower, they're likely to actually critique the track and give it a different rating. That's why stuff like "Yeti" stayed in Highest Rated for so long on 360. It got released within the first couple of days, and got a 5* rating which remained unchallenged for a long, long time.

I also agree with smeghead89; Track Central ratings mean nothing. I'd suggest subscribing to a bunch of Youtube channels which frequently highlight the sort of tracks that you like, and find good tracks that way. http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_asleep.gifn that regard, not much has changed since the days of Trials HD. It's just much easier to download tracks now.)

TheBlazeJp
04-05-2013, 02:50 PM
5* ratings are self-replicating, too. If someone sees that a track has 5 stars, they're much more likely to say "Hey, that was pretty cool, I'll give it 5 stars too." Whereas, if they see a 4* or lower, they're likely to actually critique the track and give it a different rating. That's why stuff like "Yeti" stayed in Highest Rated for so long on 360. It got released within the first couple of days, and got a 5* rating which remained unchallenged for a long, long time.

I also agree with smeghead89; Track Central ratings mean nothing. I'd suggest subscribing to a bunch of Youtube channels which frequently highlight the sort of tracks that you like, and find good tracks that way. http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_asleep.gifn that regard, not much has changed since the days of Trials HD. It's just much easier to download tracks now.)

we still shouldn't have to go through so much effort to find them. But I understand your'e point.
I will be trying to highlight the best "speedrunning" tracks I find, (Hards/Extremes). Iv'e already started to do it for the PC. Glad I shed a bit of light on Rajados Tracks..

Been working on anything since sushi nanner?

nannerdw
04-05-2013, 02:57 PM
Been working on anything since sushi nanner?
Not on PC yet. I'm waiting for the DLC.

ClutchMystaFlex
04-05-2013, 07:15 PM
Saying that extremes don't get rated high isn't true.
Just look at highest rated in trials. Most of them are ninja in the top 3 rows.

Also keep In mind that creating a technical extreme can be kinda lackluster these days. Don't take that the wrong way by the way because I enjoy them. But you have to realize what people like. Obviously there is something or everybody but look at the numbers. So for example let's say out 100 players 20 of them like tech extreme.
10 like easy-hard speedrun. 30 like ninja tracks. ( Legit ninja tracks)
And 40 monkeys like horrid crap gimmick tracks.

You have to realize if you post a tech extreme you're appealing to a very small audience. What soooo many people do is beat The track. Press retry and quit half way thru and don't rate it.

Plz for the love of god fix that redlynx. Just Cus I play the track again doesn't mean I don't want to rate it!

So ya.. Rant!

s0ad667
04-05-2013, 09:08 PM
After some effort during the beta to check all the available tracks, now i have to check only the last day or two. They're not many and using exclusively the advanced search, it's quite easy not to miss a single track out there. It's a shame that some amazing tracks like the ones mentioned don't get the visibility they deserve, but at least i know i'll play them using that method.

JolanXBL
04-11-2013, 07:12 AM
If you can make a really hard track then only a few people will be able to rate it down, it's a popularity thing.

IImayneII
04-27-2013, 03:13 PM
Why? I think people who like hard/extreme tracks know what a good track is compared to (most) people who just want to go as fast as possible on the easy tracks and have no idea what a good DL is. Of course you will have more downloads with an easy track, but if this is your goal, you are making tracks for the wrong reasons.

I also don't get why people share tracks with alpha/beta in the name (Seriously?) or people that think quantity of tracks thrumps quality.

That said, I'm currently working on some maps (3) that I will probably be releasing around the same time (this is bc I have currently only one track and I want a few of them so if people like one they can find others from me). If there are people who like to testdrive tracks that I'm working on ( I love feedback since I'm fairly new at trials and still have to learn alot), you can always add/pm me if you are up for it.