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View Full Version : The real reason for all the framerate drops and stutter



rlmergeuser
03-20-2013, 05:04 AM
I think everyone must know this but I'm just leaving a topic about it so the devs can see it.. I have a semi old rig ( Radeon 4870 PhenomX4 9950 BE 2.6 ) and I've played most of the stages of the game.. the only maps where the framerate goes to 1 digit and stutters like crazy are those with really deep field of vision..

In almost every indoor stages my framerate is always 50-60 and is quite playable.. in open stages with really deep backgrounds the framerate can go to 5 fps and after a few seconds 60 fps.

I hope the devs can create an option to limit the field of view of the backgrounds.. I'm sure this should fix most of the framerate problems we have right now.

rlmergeuser
03-20-2013, 06:18 AM
I think everyone must know this but I'm just leaving a topic about it so the devs can see it.. I have a semi old rig ( Radeon 4870 PhenomX4 9950 BE 2.6 ) and I've played most of the stages of the game.. the only maps where the framerate goes to 1 digit and stutters like crazy are those with really deep field of vision..

In almost every indoor stages my framerate is always 50-60 and is quite playable.. in open stages with really deep backgrounds the framerate can go to 5 fps and after a few seconds 60 fps.

I hope the devs can create an option to limit the field of view of the backgrounds.. I'm sure this should fix most of the framerate problems we have right now.

the "backgrounds" are PLAIN and simple . there is hardly ANYTHING in the backgrounds, if anything i would like to see BETTER backgrounds with alot of stuff moving and better textures ect.. limiting the background FOV is the stupidest thing ive heard about this game, the stutters have nothing to do with the plain backgrounds , its unoptimized poxbox code, untill they fix there internal code "turning off or limiting the background wouldn't do anything" I COULD BE WRONG but to me the backgrounds in a pinball game have more detail ...

rlmergeuser
03-20-2013, 08:19 AM
I think everyone must know this but I'm just leaving a topic about it so the devs can see it.. I have a semi old rig ( Radeon 4870 PhenomX4 9950 BE 2.6 ) and I've played most of the stages of the game.. the only maps where the framerate goes to 1 digit and stutters like crazy are those with really deep field of vision..

In almost every indoor stages my framerate is always 50-60 and is quite playable.. in open stages with really deep backgrounds the framerate can go to 5 fps and after a few seconds 60 fps.

I hope the devs can create an option to limit the field of view of the backgrounds.. I'm sure this should fix most of the framerate problems we have right now.

the "backgrounds" are PLAIN and simple . there is hardly ANYTHING in the backgrounds, if anything i would like to see BETTER backgrounds with alot of stuff moving and better textures ect.. limiting the background FOV is the stupidest thing ive heard about this game, the stutters have nothing to do with the plain backgrounds , its unoptimized poxbox code, untill they fix there internal code "turning off or limiting the background wouldn't do anything" I COULD BE WRONG but to me the backgrounds in a pinball game have more detail ...

It's not about the detail of the backgrounds.. it's about how DEEP the FOV is on some stages.. in all those stages with a really DEEP Fov the game stutters and the framerate goes to 10 fps or less all the time..

I play almost every indoor Trials HD stages at 50-60 fps.. in outdoor stages some of them work almost perfect also ( same framerate as indoor ).. but in every stage with really deep backgrounds the framerate suffer so much that becomes unplayable ( in this case the backgrounds have little detail but the Fov is huge )

I really hope they can change this or invert the backgrounds.. so we have mountains closer or something similar.. I really don't care about detailed backgrounds.. all I want is smooth 60 fps gameplay in outdoors.. even is the only thing I see behind is mountains and the sky.

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 09:00 AM
I thought it might be that originally but I don't think it is.
You can get the frame issues in the Trials HD courses just the same.

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 03:06 PM
I thought it might be that originally but I don't think it is.
You can get the frame issues in the Trials HD courses just the same.

That's weird.. I have almost no fps drops in 90% of the Trials HD courses.. but in Evolution courses everytime the game has a really deep background my game lags like hell..

If we could only choose the background of the tracks and pick one much more simple.. I'm 100% sure the game would run smooth almost all the time

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 03:40 PM
I am disappointed too, don't know if the patch was released yet, the game still is so choppy with all graphic options turned off.

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 03:58 PM
I remember this series was super optimized for 360 hardware to run at 60 fps. The trouble porting it to PC is the hardware obviously has differences.

I'd give them a month or so to fix it. I'm on a 6870 and 4 core PC, 8 gb ram, and there should at least be a way to run at rock solid 60, which there isn't yet. For a racing game finicky framerates are not cool, and RL knows that.

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 04:05 PM
I'm disappointed too. The only difference between the beta and now is the addition to facebook link on the main menu http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif My machine should run this game at 60+ constant and it's not the case. I've crashed on the 7 minute medium track because of stutter.

I really hope they will release a performance patch. I'll probably stick to HD tracks which are less prone to FPS drop.

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 06:00 PM
This is super disappointing and really needs to be fixed ASAP. I bought both Trials HD and Trials EVO with Origins of Pain on 360 and I was really excited to buy it again for PC but the framerate stutter makes me feel a little like I wasted my money. I was sold on a better version for PC so please deliver on that. I can live with the DLC not being included but please fix the game so it at least runs properly.

I'm on an i7 2700k and GTX 560ti. I get great performance in games way more graphically intense than this.

rlmergeuser
03-21-2013, 06:49 PM
Something interesting I've noticed, is that when I run the game in a window, especially at low resolutions, the game runs really poorly. Makes me think the game isn't optimized well on the CPU side of things. But I don't actually know anything about optimization, so it's a wild guess.

For example, running my custom track at 1920x1080 fullscreen is fine. It's not always 60, but it's pretty good. Running the game in a window at 1024x768 or 1280x720, it runs in slow motion. And most official tracks stutter like crazy.

Phenom II x4 @3.5GHz
Radeon 6950 2GB
8GB DDR2 866MHz RAM

Will experiment more, and post DxDiag in support forums when I get home.

rlmergeuser
03-22-2013, 06:16 AM
I thought it might be that originally but I don't think it is.
You can get the frame issues in the Trials HD courses just the same.

That's weird.. I have almost no fps drops in 90% of the Trials HD courses.. but in Evolution courses everytime the game has a really deep background my game lags like hell..

If we could only choose the background of the tracks and pick one much more simple.. I'm 100% sure the game would run smooth almost all the time

It's more likely for me that the frame rate will pack a **** when the track changes perspective and when the FOV is deep like you have said. But that isn't the only time it will happen. The problem to pin it down for me is it's completely random. Some days it will happen one place, the next day nothing and it's occurring in another.

The starts are a likely place for it to occur as well.

I'm running a 3570k at 4.4 and a gtx670. It's the most common set up for the latest/nearly latest hardware and it bugs me there's an issue like this tbh. Especially after such an in depth beta.

NoDowt
03-22-2013, 12:20 PM
I have found the stuttering can usually be cured by resetting the track immediately after you start.

This implies the problem is not pc performance or track design (including FOV) based, as neither of those change after a reset. Instead something within the engine is acting up on load of the track (and on some tracks partially through) and resetting the character (either to start or checkpoint) corrects it somehow.

So, I don't think it will be long for the issue to be patched.

rlmergeuser
03-22-2013, 12:42 PM
I have found the stuttering can usually be cured by resetting the track immediately after you start.

This implies the problem is not pc performance or track design (including FOV) based, as neither of those change after a reset. Instead something within the engine is acting up on load of the track (and on some tracks partially through) and resetting the character (either to start or checkpoint) corrects it somehow.

So, I don't think it will be long for the issue to be patched.
The problem is that when you have 8gb of RAM, no track should require a reset after launch. I've also noticed that the engine has issue dealing with explosions and foliage. Anti aliasing is also a ressource hog. They did not optimise the engine well, which is a pity, considering how powerful PC are now compared to the Xbox.

rlmergeuser
03-22-2013, 01:17 PM
mybe you should go in support forum and post your report so they can fix it.

for me the patch do the job : now i have good texture in good resolution .
i play multi on lot of random tracks with friends without problem.
redlynx follow his game and do the best to coorect i if necessary so if you well report it in the good way they will fix it http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon/smile.gif

they correct majority of beug you had in beta in a short time.

rlmergeuser
03-22-2013, 01:49 PM
Resetting track won't do anything to me. Fps is like 50-60 on most tracks, but it looks like 10 fps because of stuttering. Generally evo tracks stutter a lot more than HD tracks. Even 50 fps on my rig is unacceptable, considering that my PC can run crysis 3 smoothly on high graphics and this game isn't even that good looking (it's okay though).

NoDowt
03-22-2013, 03:09 PM
The problem is that when you have 8gb of RAM, <<snip>>You can have 1TB of RAM and it wont make a difference to trials... its a 32bit program without LAA enabled, so limited to 2GB of RAM max... (actually I haven't confirmed v1.0.2 is still non-LAA)

The stuttering problem is not due to the game having to read from disk (i.e. due to not utilising RAM fully/efficiently), if it was this the stuttering would disappear by itself once its finished reading from disk.

Something better utilisation of RAM would help with though is the texture resolution popping at the start of a track or when you reset.

rlmergeuser
03-23-2013, 02:01 AM
Is there any official word from Redlynx on this issue? These framerate issues are pretty annoying considering I already owned the game on 360 and bought this version expecting better...

rlmergeuser
03-23-2013, 11:42 AM
I also just wanted to say that the performance in the hd tracks is far better than those in evo,, in the hd tracks I can run my 2 6970`s all crossfired up with literally no problems, theres a couple tracks with a lot of clutter that you see the odd jitter but nothing to impede gameplay...

(as an example theres a track in TC that is built around waterfalls, this is an excellent tester for framedrops/stutter etc)

whereas in evo crossfire is a no go, the performance is worse than disabling crossfire and just using a single card... and even with the suggested only using a single card there are some tracks in evo where the framedrops are terrible, not unplayable but very very noticeable...

just like to add aswell that I play with AA disabled because the ingame AA tends to add to the bad framedrops..

things I`ve done that have helped the framedrops:
1: disabled ingame AA
2: use single card rather than crossfire
3: disabled cpu parking in windows 7
4: custom fan profiles using afterburner msi

rlmergeuser
03-23-2013, 12:33 PM
Never dropped a single frame below 60, maxed at 1080p. Smooth as butter.

i5 3570k/GTX 670/8gb ddr3/SSD/Win-7 64-bit.

rlmergeuser
03-23-2013, 01:12 PM
Never dropped a single frame below 60, maxed at 1080p. Smooth as butter.

i5 3570k/GTX 670/8gb ddr3/SSD/Win-7 64-bit.

I`d be curious as to the configurations of the pc`s the devs use for gold, if they are similar to your own Lurpsukka,, but just coz yours works isnt going to mean that everyone is gonna rush out and buy your setup,

the question is why is yours working flawlessly when some one like me who has a far more powerful system (in terms of gaming, no offence intended) suffer from the drops, stutters etc when playing the same game?

rlmergeuser
03-26-2013, 06:55 PM
Sooooooooooooo how's this fix coming along?

rlmergeuser
03-26-2013, 10:36 PM
Never dropped a single frame below 60, maxed at 1080p. Smooth as butter.

i5 3570k/GTX 670/8gb ddr3/SSD/Win-7 64-bit.

I`d be curious as to the configurations of the pc`s the devs use for gold, if they are similar to your own Lurpsukka,, but just coz yours works isnt going to mean that everyone is gonna rush out and buy your setup,

the question is why is yours working flawlessly when some one like me who has a far more powerful system (in terms of gaming, no offence intended) suffer from the drops, stutters etc when playing the same game?

Quite a lot of people have problems with multi GPU cards like 590/690 and SLI setups. Also installing Nvidia 314.07 drivers helped to fix the framerate issue for some people with single Nvidia cards.

rlmergeuser
03-28-2013, 12:05 AM
Just for the record: http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_asleep.gif already posted on the Steam forums)

i7980X, 12gb, GTX Titan. 314.22 drivers

I get the stuttering in most levels (HD and Evo) off and on. The stuttering is worse at 2560x1600 but is still present at 1920x1200. There is "some" improvement when you reset the track which I assume is down to texture loading but I can never completely get rid of stuttering and it can be quite severe perhaps <10FPS at times.

I had the same stuttering with my previous card (a 580GTX with different drivers) during the Alpha and of course that was in much lower 3D resolutions.

My youngest son now has the 580GTX in his system:

Q6600, 8gb, 580GTX

And that system stutters as well in basically the same places as mine.

rlmergeuser
03-29-2013, 11:24 AM
Just for the record: http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_asleep.gif already posted on the Steam forums)

My youngest son now has the 580GTX in his system:

Q6600, 8gb, 580GTX

And that system stutters as well in basically the same places as mine.

That's weird, two of my friends have GTX 580's and it's running at constant 60 fps as well for them. Have you tried 314.07 drivers? I know it sucks to re-roll certain drivers just for one game but I'd like to know if that's the culprit.

rlmergeuser
03-29-2013, 11:51 AM
6870 1GB + X4 955 Black Ed. @ 3.2GHz


I can run metro 2033 almost maxed, bf3 on high, etc.
I play at 1080p and I get random stupid fps drops regardless of indoors or outdoors, but sometimes the random crap in the map just makes my GPU choke..

rlmergeuser
03-30-2013, 12:17 AM
Just for the record: http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_asleep.gif already posted on the Steam forums)

My youngest son now has the 580GTX in his system:

Q6600, 8gb, 580GTX

And that system stutters as well in basically the same places as mine.

That's weird, two of my friends have GTX 580's and it's running at constant 60 fps as well for them. Have you tried 314.07 drivers? I know it sucks to re-roll certain drivers just for one game but I'd like to know if that's the culprit.

I think I was running 314.07s during the Alpha (when I still had the problem) but I can't be 100%. I' can't use these with the Titan (pretty sure) but I will try to get my son's PC rolled back to try them anyway. Obviously it is possible that the problem is driver related so it's worth a shot. Have you actually seen your friends systems running smoothly yourself? I'm asking because sometimes people just don't see things that others do.. e.g. SLI stuttering which has been going on for years but is only now becoming "common" knowledge!

rlmergeuser
03-30-2013, 01:22 PM
Just for the record: http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_asleep.gif already posted on the Steam forums)

My youngest son now has the 580GTX in his system:

Q6600, 8gb, 580GTX

And that system stutters as well in basically the same places as mine.

That's weird, two of my friends have GTX 580's and it's running at constant 60 fps as well for them. Have you tried 314.07 drivers? I know it sucks to re-roll certain drivers just for one game but I'd like to know if that's the culprit.

I think I was running 314.07s during the Alpha (when I still had the problem) but I can't be 100%. I' can't use these with the Titan (pretty sure) but I will try to get my son's PC rolled back to try them anyway. Obviously it is possible that the problem is driver related so it's worth a shot. Have you actually seen your friends systems running smoothly yourself? I'm asking because sometimes people just don't see things that others do.. e.g. SLI stuttering which has been going on for years but is only now becoming "common" knowledge!

Yeah I've seen other person's GTX 580. SLI micro stutter is really annoying indeed. I've had micro stuttering with my GTX 670 on Killing Floor where I had constant 60 fps, but the game stuttered like hell. Only fix for that was to cap the fps to 59 with Dxtory which also eliminated quite horrible mouse lag that game had with vsync on. I think now with newer drivers it has been eliminated but I still cap fps to 59 in KF just to play it smoothly without mouse lag.

Could you report back if those drivers made any difference?

Curse PC gaming sometimes http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif

rlmergeuser
03-30-2013, 02:43 PM
Right so I have rolled back to 314.07 on youngest sons PC with his 580. Unfortunately I can only report that it made no real difference. It is just faintly possible that it improved the stuttering a bit but basically it still stutters and in the same places. My system and his couldn't be much more different other than us both having Nvidia cards and Intel CPU's. My system is a 6 core i7, different RAM, different board, different SSD and so on.

I can also report that my other older son now has the game too ( you had better fix this Redlynx! http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon/smile.gif ). His PC spec:

QX9650 @ 3.33ghz
8gb RAM
256gb SSD
Nvidia 480GTX (No OC)

Same stuttering, same places 314.22 drivers.

Later on I'm probably going to buy the game for a 3rd PC with a 560Ti in it. I expect to see more stuttering tbh!

Sometimes, especially on the first play through of a track, the stuttering is pretty horrible at times. Once you have restarted the track the stutters reduce to occaisional although they are still annoying when you get them at a crucial time!

I "assume" the stuttering on the first run through is down to textures being loaded in on the fly and, again, assume that they are cached for subsequent run throughs. I guess the later stuttering can be "optimised" away.. plz. Redlynx/Ubi http://forum.redlynx.com/forum/images/smilies/icon/smile.gif

The game would be awesome without the bugs..

rlmergeuser
03-31-2013, 12:21 PM
Well.. with blind faith placed in Redlynx/Ubi fixing the problems... I went ahead and bought another copy for my partners machine so that's 4 copies now.

This is my partners Shuttle system:
Q9400 CPU
4Gb
Nvidia 560Ti and 306.97 drivers (they haven't been updated for awhile!)

.. All system are running Windows 7 btw..

Same problem.... and again starts off quite badly when the track first loads and improves but not to the point where there is no stuttering at all.
Obviously the problem tend to be much worse in MP where you might only play a track once through before moving on.

On another note.. The editor seems nice and is easier to use with a mouse and keyboard.

rlmergeuser
04-02-2013, 06:44 AM
Just wanted to chime in, since I did some experimenting with drivers today as well.

My pc: 8 gb ram, w7 64bit, SSD, gtx560ti, i7 quad.

I've tried the last four editions of the nvidia 500 series drivers (with clean install), and none of them made any difference. Neither did any change in resolution or graphic setting. I've tried playing on the lowest possible resolution, with the lowest settings, and the highest res and settings: The tracks that lag still lag, and those that don't are smooth regardless. Almost exclusively it's the evolution tracks, and only a few of the hd tracks have parts where it slows down. I also changed some settings in both rivatuner and nvidia-control panel, and ran the exe in compatibility mode, but nothing made any difference. Naturally, I tried all these with all other programs closed (save steam).

I tried the game on my brothers computer, with a 200 series nvidia and no SSD, and it ran exactly the same.

Seems to me like it's not a question of performance so much as buggy tracks (since the lag is oblivious to graphic settings and computer strength).

I wish the devs would add some crisis hotfix, such as enabling us to turn off background, flames, whatever, until we had the gameplay in order. Then they could work on getting the graphics up and running afterwards. This game is all about smooth handling - I would play stick-man trials if I had to.