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LeadSpitter_
01-07-2004, 05:15 PM
Just wondering for the emil pilots are you running out of ammo against the il2 with many multiple cannon hits at 200m and the il2 just flys away smoking the majority of the time, but the the i16 one short 2 second burst can ripp of a he111 or stuka wing as far as 1.8 out.

Just wondering what people are experiencing online with this match up, even the mig3 seems to take alot of hits from the emil.

And the hurricane mk1 vs emil planeset seems to take more then half of your ammo to down another plane

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LeadSpitter_
01-07-2004, 05:15 PM
Just wondering for the emil pilots are you running out of ammo against the il2 with many multiple cannon hits at 200m and the il2 just flys away smoking the majority of the time, but the the i16 one short 2 second burst can ripp of a he111 or stuka wing as far as 1.8 out.

Just wondering what people are experiencing online with this match up, even the mig3 seems to take alot of hits from the emil.

And the hurricane mk1 vs emil planeset seems to take more then half of your ammo to down another plane

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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WWSensei
01-07-2004, 08:37 PM
In an Emil mission I flew tonight I bagged two IL2s before running out of cannon. Managed to get a third smoking with MG hits to the oil cooler but he made it back home.

I find the tail boom of the IL2 to be especially weak.

Willy_Wombat
01-07-2004, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And the hurricane mk1 vs emil planeset seems to take more then half of your ammo to down another plane

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It's,
And the hurricane mk1 vs emil planeset seems to take more THAN!!!!!! half of your ammo to down another plane


and you're right, the Emil's guns vs. IL-2's armor is a toughy.

WW

xenios
01-07-2004, 09:33 PM
The IL2 now has a weak tail, which does jive with a lot of the real accounts I've read. And the Mg17 seems to have more power now, although it is and should be a pretty weak gun. But last night I sawed off a single seater IL2's tail with just the peashooters (not the 15mm) on a f2. Couldn't do that before this patch, and honestly it doesn't seem right. The tail should be weak, but not that weak.

As it is, some committed IL2 drivers think their ride is too flimsy now, but at least the previous patch's control bug on the IL2 is fixed. With that, nearly any hit severed the controls on IL2--very annoying.

WUAF_Badsight
01-07-2004, 10:27 PM
last IL2 kill whilst flying the Emil for me was in v1.11

i got 2 shot down but only had small amount of small MG left

JG53_Gutted
01-08-2004, 12:52 AM
get closer, set your convergance to 100m.

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A.K.Davis
01-08-2004, 01:05 AM
Yup, it is a convergence issue. You are missing with the MG/FFs.

--AKD

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LeadSpitter_
01-08-2004, 01:13 AM
my guns are set for 200m same with cannons, im seeing 20+ wing and elevator hits and real close constant hits .25 in the emil,

with the f4 i have no problem wings rip right off of the il2,

200m should be more then enough stopping power on one pass 100 seems to close but will give it a try.

I seen you in greatergreen gutted flying the emil, i seen them take more then half your ammo to and fly away smoking a couple of times.

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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A.K.Davis
01-08-2004, 01:56 AM
Just made a track of me in an E7/B vs. 3 vet. Il-2 '41s. First one's tail popped off after a half-second burst at close range. Second one danced with me for a bit until I walked a burst up the fuselage into the engine. It started pouring out black smoke as I passed under and then burst into flames as I swung around for another pass. Even though the pilot was long gone, I put one more quick burst into it to end it's long death glide. Third one may have taken the last few of my 20mm at longer range, but I closed and shot up his tail and right wing with my MG17s, sending him into a flat spin when he tried to break away. Convergence on all guns at 150m. 3 Il-2s dead.

--AKD

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JG53_Gutted
01-08-2004, 02:13 AM
i probably didn't get a good steady shot on em.

spraying/glancing blows and good concentrated aiming are 2 different things. you cant expect the first type to get kills all the time, but you should definately expect the second to.

you have to ask yourself what kind of hit was it?

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JG77_Tintin
01-08-2004, 04:52 AM
From what I've read, the wing guns on the E1's (mgs) and the E3's (cannon) were sighted to meet the trajectory of the nose mounted mgs at 600ft. Like others, I also find the IL2's tail to be vulnerable. Also, if only armed with machine guns, try for the oil cooler at the bottom of the engine. Once its smoking, leave it alone and that IL2 will eventually drop of its own accord. Takes good shooting though. Also heard a story of Werner Molders demonstrating to JG77 on how to kill them in 1941. Apparently on single seaters from behind at 30 degrees. The top of the fuel tank, directly behind the pilot is unprotected. Never tested this in the game though.

p1ngu666
01-08-2004, 07:39 AM
there was a small gap in the armoured canopy too i think
but very small http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Willy_Wombat
01-08-2004, 07:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:

I seen you in greatergreen gutted flying the emil, i seen them take more then half your ammo to and fly away smoking a couple of times.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I SAW you in greatergreen gutted flying the emil, i SAW them take more THAN half your ammo to and fly away smoking a couple of times.

JG7_Rall
01-08-2004, 05:14 PM
Yes. Please don't slaughter the language.

LeadSpitter_
01-10-2004, 12:43 AM
See what too many hours of FB does, plus a couple sam adams http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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pourshot
01-10-2004, 03:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willy_Wombat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:

I seen you in greatergreen gutted flying the emil, i seen them take more then half your ammo to and fly away smoking a couple of times.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I SAW you in greatergreen gutted flying the emil, i SAW them take more THAN half your ammo to and fly away smoking a couple of times.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would you even bother to point that out?

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Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-10-2004, 04:00 PM
The Hurricane guns seems to have increased in hitting power. Recently in the QMB, I took two 109E's and a damaged He-111 (thin black smoke) So, I don't complain about that.


WIth the Il-2 issue, You should defenitly NOT aim in the general direction of the pilot. You can see the 20mm cannon rounds bounce off!! Try the tail (as suggested) or the wings instead. Also, set your convergence closer, 200m is really quite far off. I've got mine set at 150m for a looooong time and it still suits me. I did once set the Il-2 fuel tank to fire with the 15mm peashooter on the 109F2. It really quite suprised me. I can't remember having that a second time.

For ground strafing, a longer convergence is needed, something like 300m or so.

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2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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Platypus_1.JaVA
01-10-2004, 04:01 PM
Also, remember that the hitting power of the bullets decrease with the distance they have to travel. Don't expect a bullet to do the same amount of damage at long range.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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LeadSpitter_
01-13-2004, 05:51 AM
why not java the shvaks do at any range http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif seriously but a jk, and I always fire extremely close with alot of Energy, even against the i16 they bounce right off the wings showing the inside of the i16 wings, if you seen guncam of emils shooting ratas 1 pass and less then a 2 second burst thats ran at quarterspeed guncam the i16s burst into flames or rip apart in pieces in reality. Same with the il2 in lots of real guncamera footage the iron bathtub was just to protect from ground fire but wings ripped off easily

They should correct whats in the game before releasing an addon I mean half the important gauges dont work in the cockpits from external sound, non working gauges, netcode theres so many glitchs map errors mis builder fm problems, no unrecoverable stalls anymore which results in the most unrealistics looking movement ever which cant even be called a snap stall, removal of mixture which is needed at low alt for acceleration and take off in the us aircraft, planes missing aileron trim, rudder trim on aircraft that had it, dirty windows on the 109s you cant even see out of on snow maps, canopy glare on some a/c with curved canopies but not on others FB feels like its still in a alpha stage

thx for the trks AKD but im not interested in offline AI trks that bail out from 1 hit on ace. They do the same avoid up and to the left manuever everydamn time when your close to them. They dont perform avoid manuevers like real good online players that fly fully damaged.

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Tue January 13 2004 at 05:06 AM.]

Willy_Wombat
01-13-2004, 07:08 AM
if you >>>HAVE SEEN<<< guncam of emils shooting ratas 1 pass and less >>>THAN<<< a 2 second burst thats >>>RUN<<< at quarterspeed guncam the i16s burst into flames or rip apart in pieces in reality.

WW

LeadSpitter_
01-13-2004, 09:07 AM
ignore forum user would be a nice feature

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A.K.Davis
01-13-2004, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

thx for the trks AKD but im not interested in offline AI trks that bail out from 1 hit on ace. They do the same avoid up and to the left manuever everydamn time when your close to them. They dont perform avoid manuevers like real good online players that fly fully damaged.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You started this thread concerned about the effects of 109E armament versus Il-2 damage model. Human and AI aircraft use the same DM. If I can tear the tail of an AI Il-2 with hits from MG/FF, then I can tear the tail off a human Il-2 with hits from MG/FF. Once again, is your issue with the DM, or with your ability to affect the DM by scoring hits?

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

LeadSpitter_
01-14-2004, 12:23 AM
akd go in greatergreen, record a nettrack of you shooting down an il2 inside the emil and post the track.

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bazzaah2
01-14-2004, 05:14 AM
I shot down an Il2 with a 109e online; very easy.

I have no track but this is what happened. I was strafed by an il2 as I was taking off. He smoked my engine, but that was all. Did some evasive manouevers and climbed away from him. He disengaged and tried to run.

I turned onto his six. 1-2 second burst at convergence distance into engine area - smoke. Broke off for another pass and got onto his six again. With a second quick burst the plane broke in two. S! all round. Can't remember the guy's name. I then crashlanded as engine screwed.

It wasn't gg but same settings, scripted server etc. Did <gunstat - 29% of rounds I fired hit.

2-3 second burst is more than enough for an il2 if you have luxury of time to aim properly; if you get the tail section straight off then much easier; 1 second should do.

My offline and online experiences in this regard at least are broadly similar.

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Bogun
01-14-2004, 10:50 AM
There is no sense to shoot at heavily armored engine compartment of IL-2 from MG-FF cannons - even MG-151/20 not going to be effective there most of the time (just like in real life). Yes, one can get lucky and shooting from above one can damage/destroy the engine with few well placed shoots, but it would make much more sense to aim at the very vulnerable wings or tail -
just few rounds will tear them apart. To test just shoot at convergence distance with "arcade=1" and see how little it takes to destroy IL-2.
And oil cooler is still vulnerable to small machinegun fire - just dive under and give it short burst right into the oil radiator - IL-2 start tracing smoke immediately and will fall down in a few minutes.

Regards,

AKA_Bogun
http://www.akawardogs.com/

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"The best fighters I met in combat were the American P-51 Mustang and Russian Yak-9U. Both of those types obviously exceeded all Bf109 variants in performance, including the 'K'. The Mustang was unmatched in altitude performance, while the Yak-9U was champion in rate of climb and maneuverability."

- Walter Wolfrum

A.K.Davis
01-14-2004, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
akd go in greatergreen, record a nettrack of you shooting down an il2 inside the emil and post the track.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you seriously suggesting that Greatergreen operates with different damage models than the core game?

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

GoodKn1ght
01-14-2004, 11:12 AM
theres one biplane for allied side that is like invincible (i forget the name). i53 or something?? dunno but w/ emil you have to get a pilot kill or hope the guy crashes to bring it down, its ridiculous.

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"

pourshot
01-16-2004, 12:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GoodKn1ght:
theres one biplane for allied side that is like invincible (i forget the name). i53 or something?? dunno but w/ emil you have to get a pilot kill or hope the guy crashes to bring it down, its ridiculous.

"Friends don't let friends fly arcade"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You meen like this track (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/quick0008.zip)I made with the Hurrie,if you cant kill it with the 8 guns on the hurrie you have no chance with 109's mg's.I was taking my time shooting (convergance at 150m)and waiting to see if the pilot bailed,I would hate to have to be in a rush to down him.

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Ride It Like Ya Stole It

c-ber3
01-16-2004, 02:09 AM
In one mission I've taken down 3 IL2's in my E7/B and damaged a 4th badly enough that he didn't make it back to base. Full realism before anyone asks....

You just have to aim for the wing root.

Kwiatos
01-16-2004, 03:52 AM
I see another problem too. Now in FB FM of bomber and sturmovik are very arcadish. Now they can make manouvers like fighters. He 111 loping, etc., IL2 now climb like rocket, turn like the hell. I know that FM of AI bomber can be arcadish but flyable plane too? Some thing is wrong.

VW-IceFire
01-17-2004, 05:55 PM
I find the MG-FF to be inconsistent when compaired to the MG151/20 which I have almost no trouble with. Especially against the Il-2...with the two synced MG151/20's on a Dora I can rip a wing off in a single pass and yet the entire ammo load of a Emil will not do the same thing despite what I can only assume to be the same level of gunnery skills.

Now I know the muzzle velocity is lower but I was under the impression that it was still a decently powerful 20mm despite some of its other more negative attributes.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/spit-sig.jpg

A.K.Davis
01-17-2004, 05:58 PM
Different velocity, different RoF, different convergence and different ammo. Why would you expect the performance to be comparable?

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg