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View Full Version : Giving orders to AI: could work way better than this



Luftcaca
07-04-2004, 12:44 PM
ok, I say could but I meant SHOULD cuz after all these patches Im disappointed a bit about the fact that some issues are still not corrected...


*note: consider you are the flight leader

1) Cover me:

your wingman no2 respond pretty well to that order, he'll be at your six and target any ennemy plane that have *targeted* you already. Note that if an ennemy plane is at your six but hasnt targeted you, your wingman will ignore it and thats kinda stupid. But thats not the real problem, the real problem is when you order you whole squad to cover you. No3, No5 and No7 IGNORE the meaning of COVER ME. They will answer "Yes I got your six" but 2 secs later you'll see lets say No3 5 km's away firing at an ennemy who is NOT A MENACE for you AT ALL. of course No4, No6 and No8 will continue to cover 3, 5 and 7 since its their default order so ordering your SQUAD to cover you you can end up with only No2 covering you, PRETTY ANNOYING to say the least...

2) attack ground targets

Why oh why do the wigmen "jettison" their bombs when I tell em to attack ground targets!!! "Ok guys attack this bridge"! "Bombs away! we will use our MG's to destroy the bridge!!!!" LOL...thats just plain stupid. Note that this happens when you attack ground targets that werent your mission's priority targets, like if you decide to destroy these vehicles instead of the ones your supposed to destroy 25 km away.
the morale of that story? they shouldnt jettison their bombs if told to attack ground targets like if they were told to attack air targets. Also another prob, sometimes I say to my guys attack all ground targets you see they answer "Starting our attack run" but they will keep following me instead of attacking the targets!!! I tell em again, same answer, we are starting...but they keep following!!! I tell em AGAIN, answer is: "Unable" cuz they are too far from the GT's now to attack em.
Should I add that these issues greatly diminish the AI ground attacks effectiveness?

3)Navigation: back to base, loiter here, next/prev waypoint

Back to base work...but you have to tell em at least twice sometimes, else they just wont get it. other orders, I just decided to not use em cuz I found em to be totally innefective...

I know there are many more issues related to AI and orders but I'll stick with that to begin with http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AI has been ameliorated but still, friendly AI can be such a pain in the ###!!!!!

thoughts?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

[This message was edited by Luftcaca on Sun July 04 2004 at 12:13 PM.]

Luftcaca
07-04-2004, 12:44 PM
ok, I say could but I meant SHOULD cuz after all these patches Im disappointed a bit about the fact that some issues are still not corrected...


*note: consider you are the flight leader

1) Cover me:

your wingman no2 respond pretty well to that order, he'll be at your six and target any ennemy plane that have *targeted* you already. Note that if an ennemy plane is at your six but hasnt targeted you, your wingman will ignore it and thats kinda stupid. But thats not the real problem, the real problem is when you order you whole squad to cover you. No3, No5 and No7 IGNORE the meaning of COVER ME. They will answer "Yes I got your six" but 2 secs later you'll see lets say No3 5 km's away firing at an ennemy who is NOT A MENACE for you AT ALL. of course No4, No6 and No8 will continue to cover 3, 5 and 7 since its their default order so ordering your SQUAD to cover you you can end up with only No2 covering you, PRETTY ANNOYING to say the least...

2) attack ground targets

Why oh why do the wigmen "jettison" their bombs when I tell em to attack ground targets!!! "Ok guys attack this bridge"! "Bombs away! we will use our MG's to destroy the bridge!!!!" LOL...thats just plain stupid. Note that this happens when you attack ground targets that werent your mission's priority targets, like if you decide to destroy these vehicles instead of the ones your supposed to destroy 25 km away.
the morale of that story? they shouldnt jettison their bombs if told to attack ground targets like if they were told to attack air targets. Also another prob, sometimes I say to my guys attack all ground targets you see they answer "Starting our attack run" but they will keep following me instead of attacking the targets!!! I tell em again, same answer, we are starting...but they keep following!!! I tell em AGAIN, answer is: "Unable" cuz they are too far from the GT's now to attack em.
Should I add that these issues greatly diminish the AI ground attacks effectiveness?

3)Navigation: back to base, loiter here, next/prev waypoint

Back to base work...but you have to tell em at least twice sometimes, else they just wont get it. other orders, I just decided to not use em cuz I found em to be totally innefective...

I know there are many more issues related to AI and orders but I'll stick with that to begin with http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AI has been ameliorated but still, friendly AI can be such a pain in the ###!!!!!

thoughts?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

[This message was edited by Luftcaca on Sun July 04 2004 at 12:13 PM.]

VMF223_Anderson
07-04-2004, 01:33 PM
<S!>Luftcaca,

Agree with your observations 100%, This has been one of my biggest pet peeves since the original, I have replied to many of these posts also. I don't think we will see much of anything out this for AEP or PF. It is too heavily encoded to salvage at this point, my only hope is they build the new Engine for BOB around the AI versus the other way around. They did tweak the friendly AI shooting into you a bit, but I still get winged from some now and again. Priorites still stink, 6 friendlies chasing a burning plane to the ground while 6 healthy ones destroy your airfield, and the superman factors are still weak, like a AI who loses a rudder to Flak and does barrel rolls for 50K to stay in formation. But I do hope they really evaluate the immersion and simulation of future projects over all the eye candy. While its nice to be in a ultrarealistic enviroment, if we cannot effectively simulate actual historical combat C and C, it really loses its ability offline to be more than a simple QMB generator. While I enjoy the Sim to no end as there is no better, I believe the AI coding is the weakest part of it.

F/O G.Anderson, Ops
417 Squadron RCAF (F) (http://www.417sqnrcaf.com)

Luftcaca
07-04-2004, 02:01 PM
yep,I agree wholeheartedly
I know we're kinda beating a dead horse hear, and that AI in AEP and PF will prolly stay the same but lets just hope IC noticed these flaws, learn from mistakes made and keep on improving about AI coding http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I try to keep my "cool" about that cuz I respect IC and Oleg a lot and I know just how much work it must be to produce such a great sim but those issues are so annoying that I almost start to shake sometimes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

VOL_Hans
07-04-2004, 04:08 PM
The AI "Experten" bring another subject up...

I find it annoying to be flying along in a campaign mission or something similar, and have Kozedub in his LA-7, or Porkryshkin in his P-39 come up after me only to flip around like the rookie AI and get killed in 30 seconds.

I would pose two questions: 1) If the Ace aircraft are merely repaints as they seem to be, why can we not fly them?

2) If there is something that should be different about them, such as flying and turning faster and putting up a fight like an ace, why is there apparently no difference?

Also...3) Is it just me...or do freindly aces never show in campaigns?

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Luftcaca
07-04-2004, 04:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
The AI "Experten" bring another subject up...

I find it annoying to be flying along in a campaign mission or something similar, and have Kozedub in his LA-7, or Porkryshkin in his P-39 come up after me only to flip around like the rookie AI and get killed in 30 seconds.

I would pose two questions: 1) If the Ace aircraft are merely repaints as they seem to be, why can we not fly them?

2) If there is something that should be different about them, such as flying and turning faster and putting up a fight like an ace, why is there apparently no difference?

Also...3) Is it just me...or do freindly aces never show in campaigns?

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never saw any friendly ace
and the game seems unable to generate a "scrambling" ennemy ace. Every time I meet an ennemy ace hes on its way to attack our airfield already

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

tfu_iain1
07-05-2004, 03:16 AM
say, its inelegant, but couldnt you just take the skin for an ace plane out of its folder and copy it to its flyable counterpart?

Popey109
07-05-2004, 05:25 AM
Also when flying jabo on your way to bomb some tanks, you see one fighter and the hole group drops bombs to ingage! would be nice if at least half the group try's to meat mission objectives! and go's on to target fully armed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif Ok! thats my last whine! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WWSensei
07-05-2004, 08:03 AM
I have had good success in padlocking ground targets and telling my wingmen to Attack My Target. Ditto for selecting which air threat I want taken out.

Popey109
07-05-2004, 08:42 AM
I usually fly in third position and don't use icons or padlock: from there they'll drop em every time! Once the air threat is gone they mite try going after ground targets, but anything heavy wont be stopped with 20 mil's. I've tried going on alone but that leaves me to deal with flak alone, being the only target I don't last long by myself.

Dash_C.
07-05-2004, 08:56 AM
Another AI routine that needs to be fixed is ground attack persistency. Sometimes two flights of Jabos will fly ~40 minutes to destroy a target, but when they get there, they just drop their bombs and run home immediately. They don't even strafe soft targets. Often, I'm the only one in the sky trying to complete the mission.

TheVoodooPriest
07-06-2004, 04:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Popey109:
Also when flying jabo on your way to bomb some tanks, you see one fighter and the hole group drops bombs to ingage! would be nice if at least half the group try's to meat mission objectives! and go's on to target fully armed Ok! thats my last whine!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah really pathetic behaviour, especially when it's just a single enemy recon plane and you're beeing escorted anyway. When I saw it the first time i just couldn't get it. As I was the leader I just thought "Who ordered this?!" You don't even have a chance to tell them not to do such nonsense. After three mission retrys with always the same weird action I decided to never again fly an offline campaign and stay with the QMB or online dogfights and although I never managed to shoot down a single plane online (lol) its still better than experienceing this A-unI.

lindyman
07-06-2004, 05:12 AM
Another funny thing is when you fly wingman, but become wing leader after he has been downed. Then the reminging flight will follow you to wherever you go, but you can't tell them anything.

Also, some times they just don't want to defend you. I've had situations where I've had a nasty on my 6, I call out for help, they all respond that they will comply, but keep flying in formation with me.
_
/Bjorn.

Naval
07-06-2004, 05:49 AM
About what several have written in here regarding JABO´s who drop their bombs to go after some air target instead...
TheVoodooPriest among others claimed that it´s not possible to tell the AI not to do that...


I´ve got news for you; THERE IS a way to keep AI from jettisoning their bombs...

Give them command to REJOIN FORMATION soon after you have started your journey...(even if they are in Formation already), then they will hold onto bombs.
ALSO, you as leader of Flight must be in manual control of Aircraft when enemy plane is spotted, otherwise your "Autopilot" will jettison your own bomb and flight members follow suite...

Just continue past, let escort handle the enemy plane... YOU continue towards ground target...


Zev

Popey109
07-06-2004, 06:40 AM
I did'nt know this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif Thanks Naval. will start flying as leader more http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Naval
07-06-2004, 01:41 PM
NP

Zev

VOL_Hans
07-06-2004, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tfu_iain1:
say, its inelegant, but couldnt you just take the skin for an ace plane out of its folder and copy it to its flyable counterpart?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, the skin is hard coded into the game. Thats not my point anyway, what i'm saying is that they seem no different from the normal aircraft, so either the devs need to make them perform much better to make them harder to defeat like the real ace would have ben, or make them flyable for kicks.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg