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View Full Version : Successful repair of Logitech Extreme 3D PRO



adriatic
09-21-2004, 08:01 AM
After month and half of using Logitech Extreme 3D Pro ; x&y axis started to be not stabile, or impossible to make full circle, z axis also. (Pitch,roll,yaw).


Putting some oil or making some pressure on potentiometers help just for a moment.

Before buying another joystick I decided to give Logitech last chance, I opened potentiometers, and now it works at 95% quality like when it woos new..

I don't advise this to people without cool nerves, but with basic mechanic knowledge is possible to do it....

So-what have to be done....??

1. Unplug, open stick, than base.

2. Cut 4 top's of potentiometers pins, (I used scalpel-this is hardest part) ;to be able to open potentiometer, it is on ''inside side of them'', round cap.

3. Open potentiometer's box (I removed all oil,now is dry and it works, I don't know which oil should I put? Fine mechanic oil?)

4. Rise metal part. (This solve the problem!!!-better contact. Last picture shows how much I raised them...)

5. Put joystick together if you can, plug in and tell me did it helped...

I open all three potentiometers, they all work fine now. (With power axis I have no problem, so I didn't touch it.)

I hope this will help somebody, I hope also not to make somebody angry for posting pictures of this product open, but if it woos working fine-I will never open it...

It really depressed me, because it woos so nice first month, but problems came quickly, on this forum I have found lot of people with same problem...this is for them...


http://tinypic.com/5vbsk

http://tinypic.com/5vbzl

http://tinypic.com/5vc03

http://tinypic.com/5vc09

http://tinypic.com/5vc0l

http://tinypic.com/5vc3l

http://tinypic.com/5vc3s

adriatic
09-21-2004, 08:01 AM
After month and half of using Logitech Extreme 3D Pro ; x&y axis started to be not stabile, or impossible to make full circle, z axis also. (Pitch,roll,yaw).


Putting some oil or making some pressure on potentiometers help just for a moment.

Before buying another joystick I decided to give Logitech last chance, I opened potentiometers, and now it works at 95% quality like when it woos new..

I don't advise this to people without cool nerves, but with basic mechanic knowledge is possible to do it....

So-what have to be done....??

1. Unplug, open stick, than base.

2. Cut 4 top's of potentiometers pins, (I used scalpel-this is hardest part) ;to be able to open potentiometer, it is on ''inside side of them'', round cap.

3. Open potentiometer's box (I removed all oil,now is dry and it works, I don't know which oil should I put? Fine mechanic oil?)

4. Rise metal part. (This solve the problem!!!-better contact. Last picture shows how much I raised them...)

5. Put joystick together if you can, plug in and tell me did it helped...

I open all three potentiometers, they all work fine now. (With power axis I have no problem, so I didn't touch it.)

I hope this will help somebody, I hope also not to make somebody angry for posting pictures of this product open, but if it woos working fine-I will never open it...

It really depressed me, because it woos so nice first month, but problems came quickly, on this forum I have found lot of people with same problem...this is for them...


http://tinypic.com/5vbsk

http://tinypic.com/5vbzl

http://tinypic.com/5vc03

http://tinypic.com/5vc09

http://tinypic.com/5vc0l

http://tinypic.com/5vc3l

http://tinypic.com/5vc3s

RedDeth
09-21-2004, 08:28 AM
dude. you didnt need to do that. there is a software fix for the rolling problem. you just need to google it. it may be on logitech site too.

the real answer is not to buy a logitech at all as they all malfunction

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of Now 13 time Champions! AFJ http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

tsisqua
09-21-2004, 09:02 AM
The info is appreciated. I had a Logitech stick, and will never buy another one, but for all those stuck with one . . . well, good on you, Mate, for trying to help, and posting pics.

Oh, yeah . . . AHEM!!!!

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-5vbsk.jpg

Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

Lupo_Argentato
09-21-2004, 09:07 AM
Great work adriatic! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
I had the same problem with the twist axis of my wingman force 3D and i solved it by buying a x45 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ! Well I tried to do something like that, but without success (I even tried the contact cleaner thing that I found on a forum -can't remember where-). After that I decided to change the pot (I had already changed the trigger of my first joystick, a logitech wingman extreme, so I wasn't really afraid) but I didn't find a suitable replacement.
Final solution after some months without a rudder http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif : the previously mentioned x45!
Just out of curiosity: how did you reassemble the pots? glue? You did remove the heads of the pins, didn't you?
Anyway thanks for sharing!
Bye
Lupo Argentato

P.S. i've just seen the post by Tsisqua... ROTFL!

http://simonec.altervista.org/my_site/fforum/sig_lupo3.jpg

Rab03
09-21-2004, 09:36 AM
I wouldn't get very enthusiastic if I were you. I've done that many times, together with more drastic measures on my stick (non logitech). It worked just for a while and then response would go crazy again. I've achieved best results with replacing pots with new ones, but it lasted only a week before they were gone also. During that week, however, stick was surgically precise.

The reason for this (sort of jumpiness of response in windows joystick settings) is "wear" of potentiometer. It is hard to find good graphite potentiometer. Cermet pots are much more durable, but are expensive.

I intend to save some money, buy new stick (doesn't matter which one), make it life long precise and extract rudder to real pedals.

See my skins at
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/JohnnyRab-SIG.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Rab&ts=1069857387&comefrom=credits)

Opti_FOG
09-21-2004, 10:54 AM
Hey I have a similar problem with my LogiTech 3D extreame Pro. The problem that I have with it is that when I twist the handle to the right to control the rudder it will not fully go to the right,the stick does but in the game the rudder will only move about a quater of the way. After I unplug it and plug the usb connector back it the stick works fine for about 10-20 minutes, after that it's the same thing again.

adriatic
09-24-2004, 01:55 PM
Yes Lupo, I remove the heads of the pins with scalpel..

And also problem with half way rudder sometimes, (for Opti) , and also sometimes working 20 min after unplugging and after problem again...

Until today all works fine..

And for tsisqua, book is great, lot of things for which we think it is new were new before 100 years also....

http//:tinypic.com/a2irp

adriatic
09-24-2004, 02:09 PM
http://tinypic.com/a2irp

(Abot book....)

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-24-2004, 03:18 PM
There is a special 'circuit spray' available at any electronics shop. I don't know if it lubricates, I use it primarily for cleaning purposes

tsisqua
09-25-2004, 11:28 AM
I am an artist of sorts, Adriatic . . . I knew what that book was, but had to poke a little fun with you , mate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tsisqua

Mantock
03-21-2010, 09:21 AM
Opti_FOG Posted Tue September 21 2004 09:54 Hide Post
Hey I have a similar problem with my LogiTech 3D extreame Pro. The problem that I have with it is that when I twist the handle to the right to control the rudder it will not fully go to the right,the stick does but in the game the rudder will only move about a quater of the way. After I unplug it and plug the usb connector back it the stick works fine for about 10-20 minutes, after that it's the same thing again.


I am having EXACTly the same problem with EXACTLY the same joystick, i think eventually i will just buy anotherone

jamesblonde1979
03-24-2010, 10:06 AM
I had the same problems with mine and changed the sensitivity settings so that they started at a higher value.

Seems to work just fine now.

T_O_A_D
03-24-2010, 01:27 PM
Been there done that years ago, Just spraying electrical cleaner(available at auto stores, and Radio Shack) in the pots will do the same.

But its just temporary Enjoy it while it last, and start thinking of a new stick in the meantime.

I personally went for a Microsoft FFB stick, but there are others much better than your using at the moment.

It's too bad because I liked the feel of the logi stick and it s software.

If you could find replacement pots of better quality, then it might be worth the effort.

I've never looked.

Oh if you think it needs lubricated, you have to use Dialectic grease, It's non conductive.
(also available at auto stores, and Radio Shack)

Radeff
05-19-2010, 04:55 PM
Nice thread, guys! I really like repair threads with pictures. I came upon yours after I had actually disassembled my Extreme 3d Pro stick. Funny thing is that it's already 6 years old. I bought it in 2004 and it was doing fine in the beginning, but eventually I had to meet all the trouble that everyone else has. Calibration loss, both left or right side tendency, and even vertical axis problems, which seem to be a bit rarer. Anyway, after I opened it, my attention was immediately drawn by the potentiometers. First thing to notice was that they are very loose in their clips. How can Logitech go ahead and make something that must offer precision so crappy? The situation is the same in my MOMO Racing Wheel by the way. The same cheap pots are used and just as loose. Those clips must hold the pot very steady at all times. Even a person who doesn't know a lot about electronics can figure that out at first sight. So, my first reaction was to try to secure the pots and see if there's any difference. I used a drop of tough glue on the spot where the pot holder enters the clips. Results were not satisfactory, a little improvement, but still erratic movement and loss of calibration occured after a few minutes of playing. Then I decided that it's inevitable to open the pots for cleaning. I didn't use any surgical blades http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I just applied some force into the crack where the pot's base and cap are joint and it opened. The 4 holding pin hats were lost of course. First I took care of the horizontal pot. After a good cleaning (with a cotton bud, no oil used) and raising of the 2 metal pins inside it, everything looked good and horizontal movement was precise. It did require some time to figure out the best position of those 2 pins, but finally I found it. The vertical pot gave me a lot of trouble though. After hours of playing with it, moving the pins upwards and sidewards, lifting the hemicircle that is on the opposite side of them, nothing helped. I always experienced choppy and erratic movement in the upper part of the testing area in control panel. I guess at some point I lost my nerve and I started "repairing" the pot as if it was Made in Russia, because I successfully broke the tips of both of those metal pins http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Twisting and bending had ruined them. Now I have two options left - forget about the handle twist feature and take that pot to replace the vertical one, or just look around electronics shops for a pot that may suit my joystick. So far I know that it's a 100K Ohm, 50 degree-rotating potentiometer. I used a multimeter and the maximum resistance I found was 98.8K Ohm. Since I don't really feel like losing the handy rudder control, I would rather try to get a replacement pot of some kind. I will keep you guys posted if I find a good working solution. If I replace the vertical pot, I will surely buy 2 extra pots, just in case the horizontal or the rudder pot decide to break. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I hope I'll have pics of a successful repair soon. It is a greatly designed joystick indeed, and only crappy manufacturing and cost saving made it a poor performer. The numerous threads around the internet are just a proof that a lot of people like that stick.

BillSwagger
05-19-2010, 05:28 PM
Interesting solution.
I'm not sure, but maybe it's also the age of your stick being that these sort of things do need to be replaced after a while. You might just pluck down on another stick.
When my Logitech started acting up i just pulled it apart with this thread in mind. I encountered some of the same issues you did, but a lack of the proper tools kept me from doing more than using a pot cleaner, which I later found was enough to fix the problem.
It really only needed a decent lubricator inside the pot for the stick to be like new again.
I've had my stick close to two years now, and its probably as good as the day i bought it because of this.
The quality of the pots are equally as precise, and i would say the problem with them is those pins you see in the photos begin to stick just enough to interfere with the signal for what ever reason, be it dust, grime, moiture, etc. Maybe Logitech should consider using some sort of lubricant for their pots as i'm certain that's where the problem area is. Then again, maybe my problem is much more minor than what other people have experienced.


Bill

CUJO_1970
05-19-2010, 07:16 PM
I love that stick, hands down the best bargain stick ever made.

My 2nd one is now about 6 years old I guess.

na85
05-19-2010, 07:22 PM
Yeah I really like mine as well. Lots of buttons and I really like how stiff the tension is compared to the floppy X52.

My Y-axis is starting to spike a little near the center. I figure 4 years out of a ~50 dollar stick is pretty good return on investment. When the axes get to the point where they're no good any more I'm going to replace the pots with hall sensors and make a guide for the community.

Radeff
05-20-2010, 11:29 AM
Unfortunately my repair seems impossible at the moment. I got a new pot today, 100k ohm resistance, cheap one, just so i can give it a try and here's what I found after i took some measurements with my multimeter.

The original logitech pot freely rotates to around 135 left and right from its center position, just like the one I got today. Nevertheless, it reaches 100k ohm resistance around only 25 right and 0 ohm resistance at around 25 left from center. That's why it's stated to be a 50 rotating pot. It goes from 0 to 100k ohm resistance for only 50 of its (approximately) 270 angle of rotation. Now here comes the difference. My new pot is a lot more sensitive and reaches 100k ohm resistance at 135 right and 0 ohm at 135 left. At the desired 25 right it offers only around 58k ohm resistance which makes the cursor in the testing area move to only about 1/6 of its full path to the edge. I guess a lot of modding will be needed so I can have a pot that will give the desired resistance at the appropriate angle. I am kinda helpless here and I won't be able to do this by myself, so I guess I'll have to say goodbye to the rudder control and use its pot to replace the Y axis pot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

M_Gunz
05-20-2010, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
There is a special 'circuit spray' available at any electronics shop. I don't know if it lubricates, I use it primarily for cleaning purposes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same as tuner cleaner spray? It's not oil, probably more like either, also removes corrosion from contacts.

jperrox
05-21-2010, 02:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">T.O.A.D.:
Been there done that years ago, Just spraying electrical cleaner(available at auto stores, and Radio Shack) in the pots will do the same. But its just temporary Enjoy it while it last.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same here...
Then I replaced pots with Hall sensors and it works flawlessly since

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z5/jperrox/Hall%20senzori/Image0002.jpg

riggler300
06-03-2010, 11:53 AM
Jperrox,

Can you please post more details about the Hall sensors you used? Fantastic idea! Where to buy, specs, etc?

The original pot is indeed a 100K 50 degree pot.
Carefully looking at this however, in my case:

If I go into the Windows calibration screen, I can see that with the handle centered, the centerpoint read onscreen is far to the left! The RANGE of motion I get from the pot looks good, it's just not centered.

My pot measures 93K across the outer terminals.
When centered, wiper to one of the end terminals reads about 44K. This tells me it is a linear pot. In fact, the CTS company confirmed the pot specs for me.

I am not so sure my pot has a problem with the traces. I think that I need to bump the entire resistance range up on one side. I think I may get some 100 ohm and 1K resistors and tie them on to one of the legs to see if I can shift up the overall value of the pot.

The other possibility that I can see is that the "stud" attached to the side of the pot is not physically centering the pot perfectly, will experiment with that tonight.


But the hall sensor is ideal!!

Radeff
06-16-2010, 07:35 AM
Hello Riggler300,

Jperrox has used Honeywell SS496A HE sensors and I am using Allegro A1301EUA-T, but there's something else you need to check before going for them. Logitech have updated the PCB a lot since the release of the stick. I have the first revision and I am still having trouble implementing the HE sensors. Maybe it is even impossible (or at least very complex) to do it. Jperrox's PCB has a 4-pin pot connector, and mine has a 3-pin. That's a simple thing to look for when checking. The newer PCB uses a different microcontroller which has ADC integrated and it's a piece of cake to connect the sensors, because the chip can read the voltage output directly from the sensors. The old PCB, though, is using a cheap method of A-D converting and that's what I got stuck with. I cannot find a good setup that will allow me to use the full resolution of movement. Still trying to figure out a way, but I seriously doubt it's possible after I wasted many hours to test with different resistors.
If you are lucky, you may have a stick with the newer PCB and the conversion to HE sensors will be easy. You can see the old version in adriatic's picture in the 1st post.

ST.SuperDre
07-08-2010, 12:15 PM
any guides on how to do the modification? I saw a guide (pot_guide.pdf) via google search http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/julian265/ but everything is gone there..

Since I know something about electronics, and my 3Dpro is 'dead' anyway (works for a moment and then the whole calibration is screwed), but I like it, it's much better as the current Speedlink Cougar Pro I'm using (don't want to spend too much money anymore on joystick, they tend to get busted after a while LOL)..

julian265
07-09-2010, 07:09 AM
Try the link in my sig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

julian265
07-09-2010, 07:20 AM
BTW, how is your project going Radeff? Are you looking at the BU0836 or similar?

Radeff
07-14-2010, 04:30 PM
My project is kinda frozen at the moment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Not only because I hit that dead end with the sensors, but because I had four laptops to repair this month and a lot of other work, so the stick had to be put on hold. I will turn back to it once I'm free. I don't think I will get the full resolution though. Perhaps I will just use the best setting and calibrate it properly.
BU0836 is not a very good option for me, because of the shipping costs. I'd rather get a "broken" Extreme 3D Pro stick with a working PCB that has the latest microcontroller.

That damn prehistoric method of ADC that my stick uses will require a lot of time, knowledge and calculations if I want to make some progress. I'll give it one more try, I guess. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

gesaugen
09-30-2012, 09:58 AM
After month and half of using Logitech Extreme 3D Pro ; x&y axis started to be not stabile, or impossible to make full circle, z axis also. (Pitch,roll,yaw).


Putting some oil or making some pressure on potentiometers help just for a moment.

Before buying another joystick I decided to give Logitech last chance, I opened potentiometers, and now it works at 95% quality like when it woos new..

I don't advise this to people without cool nerves, but with basic mechanic knowledge is possible to do it....

So-what have to be done....??

1. Unplug, open stick, than base.

2. Cut 4 top's of potentiometers pins, (I used scalpel-this is hardest part) ;to be able to open potentiometer, it is on ''inside side of them'', round cap.

3. Open potentiometer's box (I removed all oil,now is dry and it works, I don't know which oil should I put? Fine mechanic oil?)

4. Rise metal part. (This solve the problem!!!-better contact. Last picture shows how much I raised them...)

5. Put joystick together if you can, plug in and tell me did it helped...

I open all three potentiometers, they all work fine now. (With power axis I have no problem, so I didn't touch it.)

I hope this will help somebody, I hope also not to make somebody angry for posting pictures of this product open, but if it woos working fine-I will never open it...

It really depressed me, because it woos so nice first month, but problems came quickly, on this forum I have found lot of people with same problem...this is for them...
Hi ppl
just to say, this worked for me. My sensors were full of dirty grease which reduced theirs sensitivity. So i followed those steps and voila: the joystick is calibrated perfectly without problems!

kagangorgulu
03-28-2013, 05:04 PM
Drivers dosnt work. dont throw Logitech into the trash dont open it for repair just fallow my instructions and Use your logic. enter flight smulator click settings-controls-control axes tab click on rudder axis and then click delete joystick assignment. now your joystick dont have rudder (twist) feature. It means you cant make rudder while you are twisting joystick. You can use numpad 0 for rudder left and numpad enter to rudder right. Especially in Ils flights you dont have yo use rudder it is necessary only when you are taxiing (if you choose fair weather rudder will not necessary during landing) and making rudder from your keyboard will save your money you dont have to buy a new one :)

Tully__
03-29-2013, 02:18 AM
Drivers dosnt work. dont throw Logitech into the trash dont open it for repair just fallow my instructions and Use your logic. enter flight smulator click settings-controls-control axes tab click on rudder axis and then click delete joystick assignment. now your joystick dont have rudder (twist) feature. It means you cant make rudder while you are twisting joystick. You can use numpad 0 for rudder left and numpad enter to rudder right. Especially in Ils flights you dont have yo use rudder it is necessary only when you are taxiing (if you choose fair weather rudder will not necessary during landing) and making rudder from your keyboard will save your money you dont have to buy a new one :)
That's fine for basic flying in MS Flight Simulator and other civil aviation simulations, but it's really not adequate for combat simulations or advanced flight techniques such as aerobatics. In those cases you really need proper proportional rudder control.