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GK.
04-15-2004, 09:55 PM
Ive read that american pilots in the pacific hated the aircobra. It didnt turn well and it stalled. My question is, will it be given the generous modeling that it has in il2:fb or will we get something more accurate?

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

GK.
04-15-2004, 09:55 PM
Ive read that american pilots in the pacific hated the aircobra. It didnt turn well and it stalled. My question is, will it be given the generous modeling that it has in il2:fb or will we get something more accurate?

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

luthier1
04-15-2004, 09:57 PM
Airacobra in IL-2 is modeled correctly.

I suggest for you to look closer at the variants of the P-39 as flown in the Pacific by USAAF and in Russia by VVS, as well as the specifics of air combat in the different theaters.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

Fennec_P
04-15-2004, 09:58 PM
You mean PTO versions were worse than VVS versions?

GK.
04-15-2004, 10:05 PM
russians liked it and this is reflected in the modeling. I understand that time must be spent on new modeling and not correcting existing fms. Thank you for the quick response.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

luthier1
04-15-2004, 10:10 PM
The versions we have modeled in FB are N and Q. The ones that everybody complained about in the PTO were P-39D and P-400.

That's the same as if we only had Bf-109G-6 and G-10 modeled in FB, and you would be asking if the 109s in BoB would be just as overmodeled because Galland said to Goering he'd like a squadron of Spitfires. There's a world of difference between P-400 and a P-39N.

Also dogfighting a 109 at 2,000 meters is very different from dogfighting a Zero at 20,000 feet.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

luthier1
04-15-2004, 10:11 PM
Just a general point, which I know will go unheeded. But anyway

If you have a problem with any part of our flight, damage or any other kind of models, provide data from reliable sources to support your cause. Pilot stories will not do

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

GK.
04-15-2004, 10:15 PM
I have no problem, I was just asking a question. I obviously can not comment on the fms yet. Thank you for the response.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

necrobaron
04-15-2004, 10:19 PM
Besides the N and Q being superior, I've also heard the Russians removed some of the armor which resulted in better handling.

"Not all who wander are lost."

luthier1
04-15-2004, 10:24 PM
Sorry if I appear aggressive, I'm not. I'm just too brief probably - should be using the smileys more often http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
04-15-2004, 10:27 PM
Bell Aircraft company representatives also visited Russia & took back home a lot of input & recommendations that improved the P-39 more to the russians liking

Mence
04-15-2004, 11:13 PM
All this from the guy who says there were only two P-47 aces in the pacific. I wouldn't listen to a word from someone that lies like that.

necrobaron
04-16-2004, 12:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mence:
All this from the guy who says there were only two P-47 aces in the pacific. I wouldn't listen to a word from someone that lies like that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said this?

"Not all who wander are lost."

chris455
04-16-2004, 12:46 AM
Necro,
go here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=877104553

Our Friend GK here not only beleives the P-47 "barely" saw combat in the PTO, he also says there were only 2 P-47 aces in the PTO. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

necrobaron
04-16-2004, 01:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
Necro,
go here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=877104553

Our Friend GK here not only beleives the P-47 "barely" saw combat in the PTO, he also says there were only 2 P-47 aces in the PTO. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the link. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And GK...... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

heywooood
04-16-2004, 10:14 AM
YEAH GK ... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

GK.
04-16-2004, 11:06 AM
i said i could only think of two off the top of my head. Besides the rest had insignificant kill counts, sorry. And it is common knowledge that the p47 did not see much action in the pacific, it became famous for its service in europe where the majority of its victories were recieved by strafing planes on the ground. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg

heywooood
04-16-2004, 11:22 AM
llETS GET RRRREADY TO RRRRRUMBLLLLLLLLE

let it go - please..

faustnik
04-16-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
And it is common knowledge that the p47 did not see much action in the pacific, it became famous for its service in europe where the majority of its victories were recieved by strafing planes on the ground. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can this statement upset anyone? The part about tearing up the LW on the ground is very true. P-47s were odered to tear up the LW on the ground after completing escort duties and they were VERY good at it. The were also very good at engaging the German aircraft in the air.

The part about the Pacific is obviously a relative judgement. Compared to the F4F, F4U, F6F, P-38, P-39, and P-40, the P-47 saw little action in the Pacific. BUT, it still saw plenty of combat duty in the PTO and definately belongs in the planeset.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

Nimits
04-16-2004, 11:39 AM
Kills against grounded aircraft were generally not counted as official victories in the ETO. THe kill totals of P-47 pilots reflects only what they achieved in air-to-air combat.

GK.
04-16-2004, 12:31 PM
Nimits Ive heard otherwise. Any sources available?
And I agree, there is no doubt the p47 belongs in the planeset for this sim.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*

VW-IceFire
04-16-2004, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nimits:
Kills against grounded aircraft were generally not counted as official victories in the ETO. THe kill totals of P-47 pilots reflects only what they achieved in air-to-air combat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That actually was one of the changes made to the doctrine. Kills were counted on the ground to encourage pilots after escort runs to shoot stuff up on their return to base regardless of being in the air or on the ground.

P-39D was VERY different from the P-39Q. Gotta remember that part.

P-47 served quite a bit in the PTO. Not like its role in the ETO but still extremely significant. Multiple squadrons and units assigned the plane...hardly a minor contribution.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

MustangWZI
04-16-2004, 09:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
Ive read that american pilots in the pacific hated the aircobra. It didnt turn well and it stalled. My question is, will it be given the generous modeling that it has in il2:fb or will we get something more accurate?

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry I don't mean to pick on you but I'm directing this to everyone and anyone who thinks that the flight models need to be changed when usually the party that wants the change have ZERO knowledge on the subject. Sorry if I'm generalizing, please inform me if anyone is an exception to this rule.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

P.S. Exception = Anywone who has flown the(insert plane here).

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-sig200.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

GK.
04-16-2004, 09:56 PM
If you've read otherwise, please share your source.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*

MustangWZI
04-16-2004, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
If you've read otherwise, please share your source.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not the one who asked for the change in the "generous modeling". I'm sorry if I offended you but I've seen this dozens and dozens of times and It finally got to me.

My apologies.

GK.
04-16-2004, 10:25 PM
i think you have misinterpreted this thread. The p39s that were flown in the pacific haven't even been modeled yet, so how could i be asking them to be changed?

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*

luthier1
04-16-2004, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
My question is, will it be given the generous modeling that it has in il2:fb or will we get something more accurate?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
The p39s that were flown in the pacific haven't even been modeled yet, so how could i be asking them to be changed?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DOES NOT COMPUTE

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

VF-3Thunderboy
04-16-2004, 10:38 PM
The P-39 is notorious for dangerous handling characteristics. As Bud Anderson put it: The P-51 was forgiving of mistakes, but one millimeter too much input, and the P-39 would Spin." And given that it needed about 10,000 ft to recover from a spin, (Ala P-51, P-40 etc.), youd just auger it in. A very "touchy P-39 D/P-400 would be cool!

MustangWZI
04-16-2004, 10:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
i think you have misinterpreted this thread. The p39s that were flown in the pacific haven't even been modeled yet, so how could i be asking them to be changed?

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, that P-39 has not been modeled yet, but what got to me was when you said "generous modeling". Which says to me that the FB model is incorrect. That's what I find absurd, most people have no knowledge about the the flight dynamics of the planes that they say have the wrong physics.

IMHO, that's ridiculous.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-sig200.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

GK.
04-16-2004, 10:43 PM
im entitled to my opinion. I dont see how the p39s flown in the pacific could be so drastically different than the ones used by the russians.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*

luthier1
04-16-2004, 10:46 PM
Just a gentle suggestion GK, but I think you really might find that your opinions will have more weight on these forums when they're more than just assumptions unsupported by any data.

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

GK.
04-16-2004, 10:50 PM
I didnt even want to discuss the modeling of the p39 in fb. mustangman is posting in the wrong forum. I asked a question about PF and it was answered. I think your answer was "the p39 will be modeled differently in PF." That was the answer I was looking for. So thanks.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*

heywooood
04-16-2004, 10:54 PM
Proud? 'chute shooter??

GK - What is your sig motto about?

Trolling is usually done off the back of the boat, isn't it?.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

I think your line snapped.

MustangWZI
04-16-2004, 10:56 PM
"will we get something more accurate?"

You brought this upon yourself man.

That's all I have to say.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-sig200.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

chris455
04-16-2004, 10:59 PM
http://members.cox.net/miataman1/luthier.jpg

[This message was edited by chris455 on Fri April 16 2004 at 10:14 PM.]

GK.
04-16-2004, 10:59 PM
It was not a trolling. It was a legitimate question and it recieved a legitimate response. I am done posting in this thread.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*

luthier1
04-16-2004, 11:07 PM
I suggest this thread now be closed

http://www.getoffmyplane.com/

Klatuu
04-17-2004, 07:26 PM
"..majority of its victories were recieved by strafing planes on the ground."

Which is how the Allies won WWII, they just waited for all the Axis pilots to land, and then shot 'em on the ground!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif