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VF-17_Jolly
02-18-2004, 03:33 AM
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/0213/SPB.jpg
Im sorry but i cant see why this thing has been included,and was it actualy used against anyone successfuly.

and i dont mean the spitfire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Grinberg/spit5/orig_spit5vvs.jpg

[This message was edited by elvive on Wed February 18 2004 at 03:16 AM.]

VF-17_Jolly
02-18-2004, 03:33 AM
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/0213/SPB.jpg
Im sorry but i cant see why this thing has been included,and was it actualy used against anyone successfuly.

and i dont mean the spitfire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Grinberg/spit5/orig_spit5vvs.jpg

[This message was edited by elvive on Wed February 18 2004 at 03:16 AM.]

LEXX_Luthor
02-18-2004, 03:40 AM
They have not seen this before.

They don't know what this is.

lol the Luftwhiners are Panicking http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



_______________
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Cleo is a screaming bi*ch, hel is a walking dead beet, Sarge just want sex.
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Extreme_One
02-18-2004, 03:47 AM
Variety is the spice of life (or death for the Luftwaffe! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

Engrs
02-18-2004, 05:19 AM
All I know about this bird is it was used from bases in the Crimea to bomb targets in Romania. Should be a crack to use in Coops.

Not everyone gets off on late war fighters and bombers. It's nice to see us eccentrics catered for.

Engrs

jensenpark
02-18-2004, 05:58 AM
Talk about complex engine management...geez.

Hey, if you shoot it down, does it count as 3 kills?

http://images.ucomics.com/images/doonesbury/strip/thecast/duke2.jpg

"Death before unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

ELEM
02-18-2004, 06:14 AM
Yes they were used operationally and very succesfully too. Plenty to read on the internet:-

http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/Zveno.html

http://aerostories.free.fr/appareils/compopara/page19.html

http://unrealaircraft.com/content.php?page=ff_vakhmistrov

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Sekularac/TB3/zveno/tb3-zveno.html

http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/spb-comp.html

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/Reviews/redstar/tb-3-zveno.htm

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

SeaFireLIV
02-18-2004, 06:26 AM
I think it`s ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT that this unique aircraft is being featured. This is one of the reasons I love IL2. It reveals to us amazing and unique aircraft that I never knew of that actually EXISTED and were used. This is why I so love the Eastern Front element of this sim.

And any Axis flyers should be chomping at the bit to shoot it down before the fighters get going!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

1.JaVA_Razer
02-18-2004, 06:33 AM
Ow No the lufty's are panicking http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Should be fun. the I 16 can carry 2 500's themselves so you have 4 500 bombs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif s once you are under attack you have : 4 gunners and 1 planes as escort INSTANTLY http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
LOL

SeaFireLIV
02-18-2004, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELEM:
Yes they were used operationally and very succesfully too. Plenty to read on the internet:-

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just seen your links. Very interesting and apparently very successful. Thnx, ELEM.

Covino
02-18-2004, 06:47 AM
The bomber also had this parasite fighter configuration.
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/tb3i5.jpg

VW-IceFire
02-18-2004, 07:01 AM
I'd like to try one of these in an online co-op. Even if the TB-3 won't be going anywhere fast...it should be kinda cool to say "Drop the fighters!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

malkuth
02-18-2004, 08:18 AM
Cool the first Airborn Aircraft Carrier. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.metrocast.net/~moffre/sig2.jpg

System Specs (http://www.metrocast.net/~moffre/sysspecs.html)

SeaFireLIV
02-18-2004, 08:21 AM
Hey that`s a point, Malkuth. Maybe the military have been going down the wrong road with sea-borne aircraft carrier ships. Surely large aircraft carrying planes would be the ultimate weapons platform! It would be far more manoueverable and damn hard to get at if it flew high...

A technology of the future perhpas?

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

bashii
02-18-2004, 08:44 AM
With a notable exception; you can return to a seaborne aircraft carrier. Presuming this was a method for extending range, allow me to reveal my ignorance and ask *how did they get back home?* Surely there was no mechanism to re-attach, was there?

Edit: n/m, I figured it out. They flew home (well, yea) but didn't have the fuel capacity to make the round trip and thereby weren't released until necessary but still near enough to base to make the one-way trip.

[This message was edited by bashii on Wed February 18 2004 at 08:06 AM.]

DONB3397
02-18-2004, 08:45 AM
Novel. I suspect the pilot will fly the TB-3. Wonder how you'll control the launches. Or whether we'll be able to fly one of the I-16s.

BTW, in the early '30's, the piggy-back a/c idea was popular. An uncle left me some very old Aeroengineer magazines from the period. Dirigibles often had trapeze underslung to catch planes that had 'catch hooks' over the wings. I'll scan a shot for a later post.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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heywooood
02-18-2004, 09:12 AM
Personally - I can't wait to fly it.. or any and everthing else 1c Maddox decide to provide.

Bring it on - no matter what anybody says, this diversity is one of the best things about this sim IMO. Long term playability is only one of the things a mfg in this genre is trying to accomplish, and all these different birds guarantees that, at least for me.

Ofcourse - I can only speak for myself.

ELEM
02-18-2004, 09:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
Novel. I suspect the pilot will fly the TB-3. Wonder how you'll control the launches. Or whether we'll be able to fly one of the I-16s.

BTW, in the early '30's, the piggy-back a/c idea was popular. An uncle left me some very old Aeroengineer magazines from the period. Dirigibles often had trapeze underslung to catch planes that had 'catch hooks' over the wings. I'll scan a shot for a later post.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are refering to the USS Akron. This was a different concept in that the parasite fighters were for the defence of the mother ship:-

http://aerostories.free.fr/appareils/compopara/page13.html

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

SeaFireLIV
02-18-2004, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
Novel. I suspect the pilot will fly the TB-3. Wonder how you'll control the launches. Or whether we'll be able to fly one of the I-16s.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Online, I`m convince that a player can fly the TB3 while one pilot each will be able to pilot the I16s, as well as the gunners for the TB3! What a combination for online fights. Lufty`s better watch out!

Offline (hopefully in camapaign), you`ll fly the TB3 with additional controls to release the I16s or they will release themselves if conditions are right. I really hope that fighter pilots will be able to pilot the I16 while being carried by the TB3 in offline Campaigns- that would be excellent.

I would also suppose that this will create many interesting situations... what if you`re hit by flak and the connection to your I16 & TB3 are jammed? You can imagine a frustrated I16 and TB3 pilot struggling at the controls with Bf109s bearing down on them!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

SUPERAEREO
02-18-2004, 10:36 AM
WHAT? IT'S TOTALLY OVERMODELLED!!! lol!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Covino
02-18-2004, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bashii:
Surely there was no mechanism to re-attach, was there?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/tb3iz.jpg

ianboys
02-18-2004, 11:14 AM
1. The player will be able to fly either the TB-3 or the I-16s online or offline. Online, 3 players can co-op this craft (plus gunners if required).

2. No, you can't reattach.

3. The last Zveno mission was in 1944 (actually, 3 of them). So it was clearly a viable weapon or the Russian would have used some of the several alternative options.

4. As well as the attacks onm Rumania, some other places were targetted. A bridge in the Ukraine springs to mind.

No, I'm not back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Just had the chance to lurk a bit. S! all.

Capt._Tenneal
02-18-2004, 11:23 AM
I'd like to see the version with the pairs of aircraft below AND above the wings. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

When Il-2/S came out, a lot of people didn't even know there was a Soviet air force and air war in WW 2. Now we're seeing their more unusual aircraft configurations. Yep, I believe the Soviets had some pretty strange stuff flying around.

SeaFireLIV
02-18-2004, 11:28 AM
Nice to have you making a brief appearance. With this info you`ve made my day. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Hope things go well for you.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

Magister__Ludi
02-18-2004, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ianboys:
1. The player will be able to fly either the TB-3 or the I-16s online or offline. Online, 3 players can co-op this craft (plus gunners if required).

2. No, you can't reattach.

3. The last Zveno mission was in 1944 (actually, 3 of them). So it was clearly a viable weapon or the Russian would have used some of the several alternative options.

4. As well as the attacks onm Rumania, some other places were targetted. A bridge in the Ukraine springs to mind.

No, I'm not back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Just had the chance to lurk a bit. S! all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It can be hardly be considered successful. On a series of Sveno atacks in August 1941 against Cernavoda bridge, they only succeded in stopping the traffic once for 6 hours, damage a pipeline and perhaps slightly damage one pillar (reports are confusing about last one). Consequently Sveno attacks were abandoned and the same unit operated conventional TB3 attacks against targets in Rumania escorted by the same I-16. All original Sveno missions pilots and crewman were lost in this series of conventional attacks. Quite a sad story about early and obsolete VVS bombers and fighters.

AcesHigh_AVG
02-18-2004, 11:36 AM
So you can't fly the TB3 with attacked fighters in dogfight missions can you?

-HH-Dubbo
02-18-2004, 11:42 AM
Hell, even this version doesn't have enough fighters on it... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/aviamatkaPVO.jpg

The more the merrier I say.
And ~S~ to Ian.



http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/F1000016.JPG
There is no leading cause of death for people aged over 100

clint-ruin
02-18-2004, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by malkuth:
Cool the first Airborn Aircraft Carrier. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.metrocast.net/~moffre/sig2.jpg

http://www.metrocast.net/~moffre/sysspecs.html&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; (http://www.metrocast.net/~moffre/sysspecs.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>)

Definitely, it's real crimson skies stuff! But in a good way.

If the LW Zeppelin style carrier had ever been a success I'm sure we would have a lot of people clamouring for its development. I think the parasite-fighter TB3 configurations are going to be hilarious to play with in the game, really. Talk about your ultimate airbase vulch machine.. :&gt;

edit: hi Ian! nice to see you online again.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

[This message was edited by clint-ruin on Wed February 18 2004 at 11:14 AM.]

Capt._Tenneal
02-18-2004, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the picture, Dubbo2. So does that mean that the TB-3 was a huge aircraft or just that I-16s and I-15s are really small. And when the TB-3 is in this configuration, I'm guessing it's not carrying it's normal bomb load also ?

ianboys
02-18-2004, 12:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AcesHigh_AVG:
So you can't fly the TB3 with attacked fighters in dogfight missions can you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the intention, yes. One pilot taxis under the wing of the TB3 and hits the ATTACH button. Not sure if they have it working properly yet, but I think so.

Copperhead310th
02-18-2004, 12:41 PM
Well I thinks kinda a cool idea.
Will be very fun to fly both on & Off line.
it's not in any other flight sim that's for damn sure. I'm kinda looking foward to it.
not as much as i am a flyable B-25
but i am looking foward to it. That's the 1 thing FB needs more than anything at this point is more flyable multi crew bombers.
But as for this TB3 the 1st question that comes to my mind is will this thing work in DF servers or just Coop missions? no ones has made that clear. Here we are like 2 or 3 weeks out from release & hung up on Spits & no ones made a lot of things clear. Not to put a rush on the prodject or any thing but some officail word on the Aces Expantion would be most welcomed.

Oh & hiyas Ian. Long time no see M8. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

LEXX_Luthor
02-18-2004, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>MiG-3 SPB for Zveno
:
An updated Zveno considered the use of a Pe-8 four-engine bomber and two MiG-3s with bombs. The project was abandoned due to the heavy workload of the factories.

Estimated data:
total mass 33500 kg;
maximun speed with all the engines in action: 405-420 km/h;
Ceiling 8700-8900 m;
Flying range at 5,000 m: 1320-1450 km, with the fighters engines nourished by the fuel of the bomber;
duration of flight about 5 hours.

~ http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Massimo/mig3.html#development

under...Modified MiG-3s<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh the Luftwhining and Pulling of Teeth. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif



__________________
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:
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I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
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clint-ruin
02-18-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
It can be hardly be considered successful. On a series of Sveno atacks in August 1941 against Cernavoda bridge, they only succeded in stopping the traffic once for 6 hours, damage a pipeline and perhaps slightly damage one pillar (reports are confusing about last one). Consequently Sveno attacks were abandoned and the same unit operated conventional TB3 attacks against targets in Rumania escorted by the same I-16. All original Sveno missions pilots and crewman were lost in this series of conventional attacks. Quite a sad story about early and obsolete VVS bombers and fighters.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the sites linked on page one gives this rundown of the SPBs successes: http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelArticles/Sekularac/TB3/zveno/tb3-zveno.html

Final evolution of the composite that saw outbreak of the war, was based on Zveno-6, and was known as SPB Zveno. I-16s parasites changed their role from air defense to high speed dive-bombers. The success and effectiveness of SPB Zveno in its 30 combat missions was striking, especially considering that both TB-3, and I-16 fighters were already obsolete by the time they were called to defend the motherland. Bridges over Danube and Dniepr, oil fields, and docks of Constantsa, and other targets all fell victim to Zveno raids. German Field-Marshal, Erich von Manstein, in his memoirs implicitly blamed final loss of Stalingrad battle on Russian bombing of the bridge over Dniepr at Zaporozhje in August 1941. Two Zveno SPB composites were responsible for this attack. The bridge was not repaired before autumn of 1943, much to late for the fate of German troops. Despite their successes, the truth about Zveno missions remained secret to the outside world, long after the end of the war.

As always it would be good if someone could point to a verifiable or semi-verified history of the type. I offer no guarantee of reliability of the above, just that it's another perspective on the SPBs utility in warfare.

Lexx: the whines about Pe-8 + Mig3 Zveno combination would be high pitched enough to shatter glass :&gt;

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg