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View Full Version : 190 vs P-51 advice pls ??



Saburo_0
02-11-2004, 09:16 AM
Hey, could some of you FW190A series driverrs give me some tips on flying the 190 vs the P-51D ??

Saburo_0
02-11-2004, 09:16 AM
Hey, could some of you FW190A series driverrs give me some tips on flying the 190 vs the P-51D ??

FWdreamer
02-11-2004, 09:32 AM
S!
Best advice is just to stay higher then them and aim for the wings. If they get on your six, you are in real trouble because they can stay in a dive with the antons and are more manuverable also. They are the equals if not better then the A series at high alts. so you just have to get higher, surprise them and make the shots count. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

FWdreamer

Zen--
02-11-2004, 09:40 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51110714

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=22810009


The advantage in turn rate goes to the D9 with combat flaps I think, especially at lower altitudes. The D9 is faster than the mustang and climbs better (at least from what I've seen), so good E fighting tactics will be effective. If you find yourself down on the deck you can close your radiator and outrun the mustang.

There is always the scissors as a defensive move if you are a bad spot down low too...very effective against all but the best flown P51's.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

NorrisMcWhirter
02-11-2004, 09:42 AM
Hi,

Also...try to avoid high G manoeveres against the P51 as it appears to be immune..er.."less" susceptible than the 190 to G.

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

Saburo_0
02-11-2004, 10:55 AM
Thanks guys! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh, & Zen thanks for the link to Kyrules' post didn't have that one. Had him in mind when I posted this topic.

I printed out that intervies, but have to go thru & cut out & highlight the best parts.
Trying to keep my ind occupied with fun things while at work at the moment, so figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

lrrp22
02-11-2004, 11:08 AM
Zen-

I find that a 25-50% fueled Mustang turns very, very well with combat and even takeoff flaps, maybe too well. I'll have to try the same settings in the Dora.

BTW, did the real Dora even have a combat flap setting?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51110714

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=22810009


The advantage in turn rate goes to the D9 with combat flaps I think, especially at lower altitudes. The D9 is faster than the mustang and climbs better (at least from what I've seen), so good E fighting tactics will be effective. If you find yourself down on the deck you can close your radiator and outrun the mustang.

There is always the scissors as a defensive move if you are a bad spot down low too...very effective against all but the best flown P51's.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JV44Rall
02-11-2004, 11:31 AM
Strict zoom and boom is the best way to go. Don't try to kill him in one pass, put some holes in him and break off.

When one gets on your tail, try to out-roll him and force an overshoot. 190As are crappy climbers, but Mustangs are just as crappy. Acceleration is about equal. So if your speeds are matched and you can force the overshoot, you have a 50/50 chance of holing him.

kyrule2
02-11-2004, 11:35 AM
Thanks for posting links Zen.

I hope the numerous tips posted by everyone help out Saburo. Good luck my friend, and if you have any more questions just ask.

Oh, and one more quick tip. If a P-51 gets on your tail (a difficult situation indeed) build speed as quickly as you can. Out-roll him but use gentle maneuvers so you don't bleed speed. usually the Mustang driver will turn harder to compensate for inferior roll and bleed a little energy. Once his energy is equal or inferior gently maneuver away with throttle pinned and radiator closed and you will put some distance on him. As always, use clouds and wingmen if available. I also posted a maneuver that works fairly well but requires alot of practice in my linked post, make sure to read the whole thread as it is further down. If you are in a Dora, you my be able to equal energy and then out-climb him, but I'll let one of the Dora guys answer that as I usually fly the Anton.

Still the best defense is to avoid the situation altogether. Spot him first, get above him, the rest is fairly easy.

Take care.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

3./JG51_Hunde
http://www.jg51.com/

[This message was edited by kyrule2 on Wed February 11 2004 at 10:49 AM.]

robban75
02-11-2004, 11:38 AM
A 25% fueled P-51 can keep up with a D-9 up to and past 5000m. The P-51 has a similar acceleration to the D-9 and it also has a remarkably good turning ability. Dive and zooms are equal. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Korolov
02-11-2004, 11:41 AM
D-9 is IMO the worst turner of all Fw-190s. You can easily outturn a pony with a Fw-190A-4, but anything later will take some work.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Red_Storm
02-11-2004, 11:44 AM
Ive fought a friend numerous of times with him in a P51 and me in a D9. The P51 will outrun the D9 down low, it'll outturn it (whatever your flaps setting may be.) The D9 does hold an advantage in climbing and accelerating.

ZG77_Nagual
02-11-2004, 11:46 AM
The dora seems to outzoom the mustang reasonably well - but this assume you're able to get a leg up a bit e wise. The p51 is very airodynamic and hangs on to it's e verly nicely. Anyway - if you manage your energy I think the dora is easily the mustangs equal.

The A series is harder work - you basically have to extend the dora's tactics with less margin for error - I think the dora turns better to ( than the a8 and a9 - not so sure about the a5 and a4 - but to me the dora seems smoother and more forgiving). You do have much higher roll, particularly at slower speeds, in all the 190s, and of course the A's have breat guns. The mustang's .50s have a very long reach though so you really have to watch it. It's a tough match against a good mustang pilot. Below 350-400k I use the flaps alot in the 190 - but this gets into dangerous territory - it's best to break off and go vertical rather than get slow and turn with the mustang - though you can do it if you happen to be that kind of crazy.

Saburo_0
02-11-2004, 11:51 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks to All!!

Kyrule, That really is a good little handbook you've written ther. bookmarked & plan to print it out later. I want to try that gunnery exercise against Hurris & I16s you recommended, sounds like a great idea. Also had no idea the 190 performed better with manual prop pitch.
it's interesting how some planes are good one on one & others shine in a multi-bogy environment. I fly everything poorly & nothing especially well, but the way you have to change tactics & skills to match your aircraft is great fun. Don't know that i'll ever get good with the Anton but atleast now i'll know what i should be doing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

robban75
02-11-2004, 11:56 AM
Just for comparison. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

P-51 climb with 25% fuel

1000m - 0:49
2000m - 1:34
3000m - 2:26
4000m - 3:14
5000m - 4:12

D-9 with full fuel

1000m - 0:47
2000m - 1:36
3000m - 2:28
4000m - 3:13
5000m - 4:01

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

kyrule2
02-11-2004, 11:58 AM
No problem Saburo, glad you like it. Thanks alot for the kind words as well. Enjoy my friend.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

3./JG51_Hunde
http://www.jg51.com/

Cyrano
02-11-2004, 12:13 PM
This thread has already gone over everything you need to know so I won't add any tactical tips to it. What I would strongly suggest you do however is to do the tests yourself. Pick the plane you want to be truely proficient in and test it out at every altitude band and then do the same with all it's major competitors. You'll learn more about "your" plane and the others then most threads will ever tell you. Good luck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Saburo_0
02-11-2004, 12:44 PM
Nagual, Thanks good thoughts!

Robban, Thanks, uh er i think..buit then the P51 must really outclimb the 190 A series then, hmm gonna have to very careful if wild ponies are about.

Cyrano,
You got robed you really shoulda got the girl all along!
Seriously tho, I'm a bit flighty, can't settle down for just one plane, & always feel I should help even the sides number wise if in no other way when on-line. Your advice is of course correct & maybe someday I'll settle down to one or two main birds, but then again they just keep adding more before i can really try out the ones we have. Ah, so little time so much flying to do. Beats the other way around I guess!
Cheers All!

robban75
02-11-2004, 12:56 PM
Here you go Saburo, Fw 190A-5 climbtimes, for comparison. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

A-5

1000m - 0:56
2000m - 1:52
3000m - 2:53
4000m - 3:55
5000m - 4:52

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Cyrano
02-11-2004, 01:22 PM
Hey Saburo,

Well I know I didn't get that girl, but that was a long time ago...besides I got some others afterwards and have a great one now! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
As for which plane to use. One thing I've learned doing these tests is the strengths and weeknesses of most of the planes. So even though you may start with a particular matchup in mind you end up learning a lot about all the planes and therefore reach a good level of proficiency in all of them. For starters, just find a couple of hours and do a series of basic speed tests (use no cockpit view) with a whole bunch of planes at different altitudes. Believe me, what you learn will help you with all the planes.
Follow your nose, it always knows http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hristo_
02-11-2004, 01:43 PM
Never turn your back to a P51. Instead, always work to have yout guns pointed at him. Fire even if you cannot possibly hit him - make him think twice about your advantage, which is guns.

IF, however, he gets on your six, use rolls more than anything else. Use it to create separation, then again turn into him.

In short, stick those guns into his face and keep rolling.

ZG77_Nagual
02-11-2004, 01:47 PM
I got into it vs two pony's, all by my lonesome in a dora, the other night online. One was well above me, the other level during closure. I quickly got the advantage on the low one and was running fast enough in the dive that high one could'nt catch me as I made a couple of passes and did some serious damage to his wingman. Eventually I found myself running however - as the high one was smart and would not let go of altitude. The damaged mustang trailed but both were on six as I slowly pulled away in a shallow dive. I was looking forward to solving this problem but had to dodge offline in a hurry due to RL responsibilities.

VW-IceFire
02-11-2004, 01:55 PM
If the P-51 stupidly does a headon and you have an Anto FW190 then feel free to show him your cannons. P-51's are weak in the engine (the nose) and don't take damage very well...the FW190's do better (although you still want to try to avoid even being hit if you can). Depends on where you catch him but tactics for P-51's and FW190's aren't terribly different...both aircraft require you to keep speed up to fight and maintain the advantage. Its not nearly as different in style compaired to when you are fighting with a Yak or a La when they have a massive turn advantage.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Saburo_0
02-11-2004, 02:58 PM
Cyrano,

http://www.kelloggs.ca/whoweare/images/char_toucansam.gif

Glad to hear the whole girl thing worked out in the end. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Teh Mustang being similar to the 190 is what thru me off & started me to wondering about this match up. Seems the Anton's real strenghts against the P51 are
1. Roll (out the barrel..)
2. Guns (Shoot 'em all!)
3. possibly ruggedness. But if you have to put that one to the test then you're, well i anyway, am going to need some help from friends.

VW-IceFire
02-11-2004, 03:12 PM
They are fairly similar if you consider the matchup between a FW190 to a Yak-9. They are fairly different and individual as fighters but in the grand scheme of the game (which is pretty big!) they aren't all that different.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!