PDA

View Full Version : How will they do another "Revolution" without making it seem repetitive?



Legendz54
03-20-2014, 09:47 AM
So we got some pretty exciting images today.

http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Assassins-Creed-5-Paris-France-Screenshot.jpg
http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Assassins-Creed-5-Leaked-Screenshots.jpg

How do you think they will handle another "revolution" without it seeming repetitive like AC3 and do you think Connor will make an appearance or cameo in the game?

LoyalACFan
03-20-2014, 09:56 AM
The French Revolution was a different kind of revolution. It wasn't a war per se, just a turbulent time in the French power structure riding on the coattails of the Enlightenment and early populist theory, wherein a lot of people got executed or assassinated for their politics. It's plenty different from the American Revolution, and it won't feel repetitive as we won't be hanging out with generals and fighting in battles.

Reptilis91
03-20-2014, 10:02 AM
Indeed. Completly different, don't worry.

Legendz54
03-20-2014, 11:22 AM
The French Revolution was a different kind of revolution. It wasn't a war per se, just a turbulent time in the French power structure riding on the coattails of the Enlightenment and early populist theory, wherein a lot of people got executed or assassinated for their politics. It's plenty different from the American Revolution, and it won't feel repetitive as we won't be hanging out with generals and fighting in battles.

Ah ok..

GunnerGalactico
03-20-2014, 11:40 AM
There's a lot interesting ideas mentioned here, but what if the game were to take place during Napoleon's reign.

That would be exciting. It wouldn't focus on the political aspects, there would be battles but not on the same scale as AC3.

DumbGamerTag94
03-20-2014, 01:07 PM
The French Revolution was not like the American Revolution. In America the colonists fought a war against a foreign occupier so unless you were a soldier, die hard sympathizer, or tax collector you wouldn't have suffered that badly during the American Rev, also it was more of a conventional war. The French revolution was worse. It was like a civil war without any real organized armies. People randomly sacking noble's homes and killing people, burning the houses, riots in the streets, protests and revolts being met with gunfire by Royal Troops, hangings on persons who spoke out against the king etc(Think Boston and New York in The Tyranny of King Washington) The French Revolution will undoubtedly be a very dark/gory AC. Much more of a Mob mentality in the French Revolution than an organized war like AC3. Then political power grabs took hold after the Monarchy was removed everyone who's anyone was getting killed by guillotine or some other execution.
Personally I think the French Rev and Reign of Terror would be better as a prologue like The 7 years war in AC3 with Haytham. A story of more epic scale could be set during Napoleon's reign and the wars that followed. Far more famous historic figures from many different countries, and the battles would put Bunker Hill to shame by comparison of scale. Not to mention the idea of puppet states and conquest would provide good targets and conspiracy and a way to tie in pieces of Eden. But if it were to be done I think Napoleon should have a completely separate game as a sequel to this one(assuming this is French Rev. and not Napoleonic Wars).
My very first post on these forums was actually my ideas for why the French Rev was a perfect setting and how a Trilogy should be made based around the Rev and Napoleon's Rise and fall. I go far more in depth there but I think it was a pretty good idea. Check it out and see if you agree with me.

Dome500
03-20-2014, 04:02 PM
The French Revolution was a different kind of revolution. It wasn't a war per se, just a turbulent time in the French power structure riding on the coattails of the Enlightenment and early populist theory, wherein a lot of people got executed or assassinated for their politics. It's plenty different from the American Revolution, and it won't feel repetitive as we won't be hanging out with generals and fighting in battles.

It was MUCH more bloody.
Love the topic btw., French Rev is one of my favorite historical events.
There is so much to talk about.

But you are right, it was a different kind of Revolution. Not a Revolution for independence though.
Actually, historians are often talking about 3 Revolutions happening at the same time:

1. The farmer-revolution
2. The revolution of the urban rich middle class (Third Estate)
3. The revolution of the "enlightened" nobles


Basically, the farmers had a huge amount of taxes to pay especially since there was a huge financial crisis, which was dragged on by the King and ignored for way too long and since a majority of people (80%) still counted as farmers and/or were living on the countyside they had a lot of backup once the revolt of the farmers started. But that was only a side product of the revolution of the nobles and rich middle class.

A huge part of the Third Estate (mostly rich middle class) did make a lot of money due to the economy in those days, but they still had almost no political representation. Supported by "enlightened" nobles they tried to gain more political say but the Kind denied this.

The Third Estate met secretly, inviting the other classes, and decided to call themselves national assembly.
The national assembly was proclaimed, which was supposed to be an assembly of the people and not of the Estates. They planned to conduct the affairs of the nation (France) with or without the other estates, willing to decide for themselves now, without King, but with an invitation for the other Estates, if they wanted to join.

In an attempt to keep control of the process and prevent the Assembly from convening, Louis XVI ordered the closure of the Salle des États where the Assembly met
Since and outdoor meeting was not possible, they changed their meeting place to the nearby indoor real tennis court.
There they swore the Tennis Court Oath, where they swore to not go apart, or rather to not give up, until a constitution was established.

In the end the revolution started when the citizens of Paris stormed the Bastille in Paris armed to the teeth because the King fired Necker, who was the financial adviser. He fired him because Necker made a document which accounted for the dept of the government available to the public. The Bastille was some kind of mystery back in the day, even said to have "political prisoners" (which in the end proofed to be wrong) and it was a symbol of the French Aristocracy. So they stormed it with around 5000 man (and women) (or 500? I actually don't know anymore).

The commander there ordered the soldiers to attack, there were around 100 deaths at that event, but he backed down in the end when the situation was escalating.
The King backed down due to being shocked and afraid by the violence of the people.

The national assembly was then working towards a constitution.
They abolished feudalism, published the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.

The financial crisis though went on and remained unaddressed, which is why they then started to direct their thoughts towards this, giving Necker the full authority to solve the situation, if possible.

While other political events went on, a constitutional monarchy was established.
Though it failed.

Long story short, after the Revolution started different groups started to establish themselves, all willing to build a different form of a new political system. One of them was the Jacobin Club, they supported the concept of a centralized Republic, others supported a constitutional monarchy while others supported a re-establishment of the Kings power.

Anyway, the groups did fight about influence and power for some time, and the Jacobin Club won in the end. They established some kind of regime for the transition period, and started to basically murder everyone who was not on their side. They event went as far as to execute people for not being as radical as they were. This phase is known (at least in my country) as the tyranny of the Jaconines (or the Jacobin Club) (or "Reign of Terror")

In the end the Jacobin Regime was overthrown, arrested and executed.

Then the time of the constitutional monarchy began with the constitution called "the directory".

Several revolts and conspiracies, as well as the financial situation and other things all weakened the constitutional party in the end and Napoleon was able to perform his coup d'etat.

Like I said - this all was not historically correct and is a very short summary which leaves out a LOT of political facts, influences and events.
Sorry, it's been a while since I had the French Revolution, back in school. Also, I'm not a native English speaker, so forgive me for maybe not using the "common" names and words for certain events or parties.

The first phases of the French Revolution were the most interesting and bloody ones. (until the directory, where everything went more clam again).

If you want the full story, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution
Not the best source but it lists the fact rather well.

My point is, the French Revolution is a lot different from the American one. The French Rev. is a lot more complex, involves a lot more politics and different parties and is very bloody, with different phases that contain about everything reaching from actual Revolt, over Revolution, Civil War, Tyranny and Massacres.

It's very complex time, and a long one as well.

Rugterwyper32
03-20-2014, 04:27 PM
Beyond it being a very different kind of revolution, there's yet another thing they could do to make it different: Not shoehorning the main character into every event as the person who single-handedly changed everything.

Dome500
03-20-2014, 04:31 PM
beyond it being a very different kind of revolution, there's yet another thing they could do to make it different: Not shoehorning the main character into every event as the person who single-handedly changed everything.

this :D

DumbGamerTag94
03-20-2014, 04:42 PM
Beyond it being a very different kind of revolution, there's yet another thing they could do to make it different: Not shoehorning the main character into every event as the person who single-handedly changed everything.

I agree with you. But here's where I differ. France is much smaller than the Entire north Eastern US shown in AC3 and if you narrow the major events of the revolution and its mainly in and around the city of Paris. That said it wouldn't be that far fetched for the protagonist to be at many of the major events of the revolution. Where with Connor it made no sense for a New York native American to be in Philadelphia or the Chesapeake Bay for example. You hit the nail on the head with this......"Not....as the person who single-handedly changed everything." That is key to adding historic events to an AC game. It would be fine if we played in several major places like the storming of the Bastille for example. But don't have the hero be the one who is solely responsible for an event occurring or for an events success. It takes away believability and steals the thunder away from the actual historic figures who made these events happen and succeed. That said there needs to be a good reason for the hero to be there, not just there for the sake of putting it in the game. Perhaps he knows someone there, he lives in the town/neighborhood where it happens, a Templar target is somehow envolved or in command of the event (this is why I didn't mind Bunker Hill or Lexington(while commanding troops at Concord went a little far for me)). Being present for action packed historical events and such is one of my favorite parts of AC the most memorable parts of the series for me are things like the Pazzi Conspiracy, Arsuf, Bunker Hill, Bonfire of the Vanities, The final battle with Chesare in Brotherhood etc. It just needs to be done right. In a logical and sensible way and written as a part of the overall story, not just cramming the character there because we want to see it. Ubi just needs to put some thought into their writing for things like this.

LoyalACFan
03-20-2014, 06:19 PM
I agree with you. But here's where I differ. France is much smaller than the Entire north Eastern US shown in AC3 and if you narrow the major events of the revolution and its mainly in and around the city of Paris. That said it wouldn't be that far fetched for the protagonist to be at many of the major events of the revolution. Where with Connor it made no sense for a New York native American to be in Philadelphia or the Chesapeake Bay for example.

That's actually not true, the distance from Paris to Marseille (basically one end of France to the other) is much greater than the distance between Boston and New York. It would be even less believable for Arno to be parading all over France than it was when Connor paraded all over the northeastern colonies.

GunnerGalactico
03-20-2014, 06:29 PM
That's actually not true, the distance from Paris to Marseille (basically one end of France to the other) is much greater than the distance between Boston and New York. It would be even less believable for Arno to be parading all over France than it was when Connor paraded all over the northeastern colonies.

Also with Ezio, travelling back and forth from Tuscany to Florence, and then Venice, Forli and Rome. He paraded over some of the major parts of Italy.

LoyalACFan
03-20-2014, 06:52 PM
Also with Ezio, travelling back and forth from Tuscany to Florence, and then Venice, Forli and Rome. He paraded over some of the major parts of Italy.

Well yeah, but Bmark was talking specifically about AC3.

Hell, for that matter, Edward went to freaking Africa.

DumbGamerTag94
03-20-2014, 07:04 PM
You have misunderstood me. I meant by square miles wise. You mean to tell me that the combined area of the states of Massachusetts New York New Jersey And Connecticut are smaller than France? You can't go based on straight line distance because of the Frontier. And Edward was a pirate captain it wasn't uncommon for them to sail to Africa Bart Roberts was fameous for it thus why we find him there. So Edward wasn't that unbelievable historically speaking. And Ezio (ACR not included) only went thru northern Italy so that's less than France or AC3

D.I.D.
03-20-2014, 07:04 PM
Read "Pure" by Andrew Miller http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/andrew+miller/pure/8599000/

I hope they go for this kind of idea, where the revolution is a kind of explosive reaction to complacent intertia at all levels of society, rather than a good vs bad war exclusively at the national politics level.

LoyalACFan
03-20-2014, 07:13 PM
You have misunderstood me. I meant by square miles wise. You mean to tell me that the combined area of the states of Massachusetts New York New Jersey And Connecticut are smaller than France?

Actually... yes, I am saying that. France is a LOT bigger than all of those states put together. Go look at it on Google Maps. And to make sure I wasn't hallucinating, I added it up.

NY+NJ+CT+MA= 79,376 sq. mi.

France= 246,201 sq. mi.

DumbGamerTag94
03-20-2014, 07:20 PM
Oh and Pennsylvania I forgot about fort Duquesne and valley forge. PA alone is like 2/3 the size of Germany I don't know what ur smoking

DumbGamerTag94
03-20-2014, 07:28 PM
Ok I added in PA n it makes the area roughly half the size of France. And in my post I specified the action would mostly be in and around Paris so northern France(Normandy burgundy etc). This region would be about the same if not smaller

LoyalACFan
03-20-2014, 07:34 PM
Oh and Pennsylvania I forgot about fort Duquesne and valley forge. PA alone is like 2/3 the size of Germany I don't know what ur smoking

Dude, what? Pennsylvania isn't even ONE third the size of Germany (and Germany is significantly smaller than France anyway, so I'm not even sure what you're arguing) and even if you add in the 45,000ish sq. mi. of Pennsylvania to the previous four states, you're still not even close to being as big as France.

Edit- you made your second post while I was typing. If you're restricting it to JUST the surrounding area of Paris, then yeah, it's possible, but it would be a bit of a letdown IMO if there was only one region we could visit. Unless that region is HUGE (like at least twice the size of the frontier and way denser).

RatonhnhakeFan
03-20-2014, 07:45 PM
Even if you add entire New England, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey it is much smaller than France. I never actually realized this lol

Rugterwyper32
03-20-2014, 07:47 PM
Even if you add entire New England, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey it is much smaller than France. I never actually realized this lol

Then you bring in Alaska and everything else looks tiny

GunnerGalactico
03-20-2014, 07:54 PM
Then you bring in Alaska and everything else looks tiny

Well played :cool:

DumbGamerTag94
03-20-2014, 08:39 PM
Dude, what? Pennsylvania isn't even ONE third the size of Germany (and Germany is significantly smaller than France anyway, so I'm not even sure what you're arguing) and even if you add in the 45,000ish sq. mi. of Pennsylvania to the previous four states, you're still not even close to being as big as France.

Edit- you made your second post while I was typing. If you're restricting it to JUST the surrounding area of Paris, then yeah, it's possible, but it would be a bit of a letdown IMO if there was only one region we could visit. Unless that region is HUGE (like at least twice the size of the frontier and way denser).

My apologies I never realized just how large France is.(I also meant to put 1/3 and not 2/3 sorry for that as well) But I think practically speaking with a setting along French History especially during the revolution it would have to be contained in a region roughly the same size as AC3 (in name but the actual map may be larger since AC3 was not to scale or even geographically correct they put settlements in the wrong places for that matter) A French Rev game wouldn't really make sense to have a region larger than either The Northern half of France, or Maybe the Entire country(though I don't know why they would since all the important stuff generally happened in the north) I don't even know if there will be a frontier like area in this game at all for all we know Paris may be like Rome in Brotherhood but bigger. I think we would get far more variety of setting and scale if it is set during the Napoleonic wars instead because that would open up places like Germany, Russia, Britain etc. for a frontier type place and diverse cities like Berlin Moscow and Paris. But if its French Rev I think the only change of scenery we would see would be travels to exotic locations by ship like the side missions of AC3 with the Trinket missions and such. That's my prediction.

Rugterwyper32
03-20-2014, 08:47 PM
My guess for the French Rev. is that, should we have naval of any sort, either Le Havre or Nantes would be there somehow. Or even the villa-style place if it's by the seaside.
Personally, I'd love to see either Lyon and/or Toulouse. Lyon would be interesting, specially seeing it actually change after getting destroyed post-siege (would make up for the missed opportunity with New York for sure), and Toulouse had a lot of changes because of the Revolution, though it's further from Paris than Lyon is.

SpiritOfNevaeh
03-20-2014, 09:29 PM
The French Revolution was a different kind of revolution. It wasn't a war per se, just a turbulent time in the French power structure riding on the coattails of the Enlightenment and early populist theory, wherein a lot of people got executed or assassinated for their politics. It's plenty different from the American Revolution, and it won't feel repetitive as we won't be hanging out with generals and fighting in battles.

Well said, my friend.