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SteveKg
12-18-2003, 12:53 PM
I've recently bought IL 2 Sturmovik second hand for 6.99 - BARGAIN! I have never played (if playing is the right word for this game) a flying game ever before so I am still learning how to fly via the tutorials. I've seen great reviews of the game and it looks terrific so far. I'm sure it's going to consume far too much of my time!

As very much a newby I would be grateful for advice on:
a) Do I need to install any patches? If so which ones, in what order, and what do they do?
b) Joysticks. There seem to be a wide variety available at a wide variety of prices. On the back of the manual the Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner is recommended but this is quite expensive. Would I be better advised to save up for this joystick (and so carry on learning to stay in the air using the keyboard for now) or to go for a cheaper joystick and if so which one?

Any help will be much appreciated.

SteveKg
12-18-2003, 12:53 PM
I've recently bought IL 2 Sturmovik second hand for 6.99 - BARGAIN! I have never played (if playing is the right word for this game) a flying game ever before so I am still learning how to fly via the tutorials. I've seen great reviews of the game and it looks terrific so far. I'm sure it's going to consume far too much of my time!

As very much a newby I would be grateful for advice on:
a) Do I need to install any patches? If so which ones, in what order, and what do they do?
b) Joysticks. There seem to be a wide variety available at a wide variety of prices. On the back of the manual the Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner is recommended but this is quite expensive. Would I be better advised to save up for this joystick (and so carry on learning to stay in the air using the keyboard for now) or to go for a cheaper joystick and if so which one?

Any help will be much appreciated.

Tully__
12-18-2003, 01:02 PM
Finish the tutorials before you patch, they won't work right after.

Get a joystick. Anything over about US$40 (sorry, don't have a currency converter handy right now) from:

Microsoft
Thrustmaster
Saitek
CH Products

will do the job, but try it first if you can. Joystick choice is a lot to do with how it feels to you, one person's dream is another's nightmare.

For the original IL2 Sturmovik, the patches you want after you're done with the tutorial are:

1.1a (73.4MB)
1.2 (28.4MB)

Optional: 1.2ov (38.1MB) is only required if you wish to be able to edit the voice files for the AI (computer controlled) pilots. Only install 1.2ov after the other two.

Use http://www.3dgamers.com/games/il2sturmovik/ for downloads, they're a lot faster than the Ubi servers.

=================================================

http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)


Salut
Tully

BpGemini
12-18-2003, 02:32 PM
I have one of these;

http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/911.gif

Logitech Freedom 2.4 Ghz Cordless
* 10 buttons (18 commands when one button is assigned as a shift)
* Smooth heavy metal throttle design
* Twisty handle for rudder control
* Cordless
* $50.00-60.00 U.S.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

Zayets
12-18-2003, 02:49 PM
FFB is a must when you play IL2!
Sadly,x45 doesn't feature one and I'm too tired to plug in my old AVB Pegasus.What a great heavy joystick!The whole house shake as I take off from Kerch!

Zayets out

http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/iar81c.JPG

SteveKg
12-19-2003, 06:06 AM
Thank you all for your replies. Still don't know which joystick to get - I take the point about personal preferance, I'll have to do a bit of research here. Will retailers allow me to try one out I wonder? That will be a bit difficult on the Internet!

So if I install the patches the tutorials won't work? That can't be right - it may be true but it can't be right! Believe me, I'm going to need a LOT of time on the tutorials - havn't got the hang of flying at all yet (using the keyboard). Clearly, this being the case, it would be a mistake to download any patches yet, but once I've progressed beyond the point of needing the tutorials what benefits are there from the patches? Are they really needed?

Once again thanks for the replies and Solstice Greetings to you all.

tenmmike
12-19-2003, 06:34 AM
greetings and welcome... i sugest you go get any joystick...anything is better then none its the only way to learn to fly.....as pointed out you can get a fair stick for $40usd i think thats around 30 pounds..or 40 euros..the tutorials i personaly found near usless..you can get to learn to fly in the quick mission builder faster (my opinion) the take off/ land will be much harder..and this is a hard sim but VERY rewarding....1st go get a stick anything is better the the keyboard once you get the stick repost and things will be easier to talk to you about.and yes make sure the stick also has a way to control the rudder (usaly the stick will twist).....good luck

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

[This message was edited by tenmmike on Fri December 19 2003 at 05:59 AM.]

Bearcat99
12-19-2003, 06:41 AM
Welcome aboard...... dont skimp too much on the stick. It is your main interface with the sim next to your system. Like Tully said dont go under $40 US ...make sure it has some kind of rudder control.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]

aesmith
12-19-2003, 06:42 AM
I have an MS joystick. That works fine. Advanced users seem to want a lot of buttons and sliders so they don't need to use the keyboard.

To get started you just need a joystick, but it really needs a rudder function. (Even the Wright bros had three axis control) Mine controls the rudder by twisting he handle. Again, advanced users probably want pedals.

Tony S

XyZspineZyX
12-19-2003, 07:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveKg:
Thank you all for your replies. Still don't know which joystick to get - I take the point about personal preferance, I'll have to do a bit of research here. Will retailers allow me to try one out I wonder? That will be a bit difficult on the Internet!

So if I install the patches the tutorials won't work? That can't be right - it may be true but it can't be right! Believe me, I'm going to need a LOT of time on the tutorials - havn't got the hang of flying at all yet (using the keyboard). Clearly, this being the case, it would be a mistake to download any patches yet, but once I've progressed beyond the point of needing the tutorials what benefits are there from the patches? Are they really needed?

Once again thanks for the replies and Solstice Greetings to you all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Welcome to the best addiction you'll ever have next to love.

Re: Joysticks... I have one of these:

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/images/product/pcp/x45.jpg

If you have a Best Buy near you, you can at least get the feel for it. If you have a "Mom & Pop" store near you they might actually set one up for you on a computer.

As for the patch/tutorial...It is true sadly. You do need the patches for more planes and other game enhancements. If you have the HD space make two installs, one un-patched, one patched.

http://www.il2airracing.com/images/IL2AirRacing.gif

SteveKg
12-23-2003, 12:59 PM
Thank you all very much for your replies - much appreciated.
I've looked at various reviews and at other threads here about joysticks and I'm still not sure which to go for. FFB seems to be generally recommended, although someone called "Leadspitter" (who might perhaps be advised to consult a dentist if the problem persists) says FFB causes problems.
Which is best? X 45, MS FFB2, Thrustmaster Topgun Afterburner? Others?
I'll let you know what I eventually get, sometime after Christmas now. May save up to get a decent one.

Happy christmas all.

FI-Aflak
12-23-2003, 01:28 PM
Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold is a good stick, probably best budget stick.

Maybe 40-50 USD, has throttle, twist for rudder, trigger, three secondary triggers, 6 or so other buttons, 8-way HAT switch . . .

its also fully adjustable for right/left hands, and hand size.

I'd say its the best bet.

JG14_Josf
12-23-2003, 01:36 PM
Any stick is better than none.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.msn.ebay.com%2F ws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=51&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Computer+Joystick

Get the one for .99 cents

Borrow one from Grandma

How can you fly a plane without a joystick!?

AirBot
12-23-2003, 03:28 PM
I think to start with, a pretty basic joystick will be just fine. Basically, any stick with a throttle and (preferably, although you can manage without) a rudder control (twist, usually) will be fine. You might see some dirt-cheap sticks with only the stick itself and 1 button (trigger) - these are usually inaccurate and unreliable, you're best advised to avoid them like the plague. I don't see any need for more advanced sticks right now, certainly not a FFB one (it is nice - if you can afford it, but entirely not mandatory).

Patches mostly just change the FMs (Flight Models) and add new airplanes. You don't need them to start off, although if you experience technical difficulties the patches might solve them.

I myself never found the tutorials of much use. What I'd recommend is to read up a bit on the basics of flight - in the manual, for example - so you know what to expect. Then just start up a flight and familiarise yourself with the controls. When you feel ready, give yourself some targets to shoot at. And don't be afraid to set the difficulty as high or as low as you want to - it's your game, play it your way.

Above all, enjoy! And don't be afraid to ask here if you have problems. Most of us will be glad to help.

Welcome to the community, and to the world of flight sims! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

**EDIT** BTW: This - http://images.bargainland.net/269/645.jpg - is the kind of stick I meant when I said avoid like the plague. I doubt it will live for more than a week, so just don't go there...

new_michapma
12-23-2003, 03:35 PM
Hi SteveKg,

For those times when you're stuck away from your new hobby but craving something related to it, have a look here:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/

You will probably find some stuff that confuses you, but also perhaps some stuff that helps you. Above all there is a PDF document you can download and have a look at. There are also some tracks for IL-2 that work with the patched 1.2 version.

Welcome to the community!

Cheers,
Mike

pinche_bolillo
12-23-2003, 03:38 PM
Hi, I have never flown this game off line other than a few times just to get down basic keys. maybe 1/2 an hour the first day. then I was off to the hyper lobby to fly online. I have found in my past experience that flying off line to learn a game is a complete waste of time for me. People fly completely different than ai. I have always found the best way to learn a game is to fly online as soon as the game is installed.

now flying offline to test aircraft performance is a different matter. but even when testing aircraft performance it is best to do this with a friend online so that you can talk with them and really compair the planes performance to another under similar circumstances.

just my opinion hope you enjoy the game, I find the take off and landing aspect of the game a dreadful bore http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif it is so time consuming that 2/3rds of the time in a game is doing one or the other, or just flying around climbing and trying to find the fight. oh and thats not on a full real server :O hehehe

ELEM
12-24-2003, 01:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveKg:
I've recently bought IL 2 Sturmovik second hand for 6.99 - BARGAIN! I have never played (if playing is the right word for this game) a flying game ever before so I am still learning how to fly via the tutorials. I've seen great reviews of the game and it looks terrific so far. I'm sure it's going to consume far too much of my time!

As very much a newby I would be grateful for advice on:
a) Do I need to install any patches? If so which ones, in what order, and what do they do?
b) Joysticks. There seem to be a wide variety available at a wide variety of prices. On the back of the manual the Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner is recommended but this is quite expensive. Would I be better advised to save up for this joystick (and so carry on learning to stay in the air using the keyboard for now) or to go for a cheaper joystick and if so which one?

Any help will be much appreciated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as the patches are concerned, you could always read what they give in the Updates section...
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/games_elts/updates.php

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

RocketDog
12-24-2003, 04:40 AM
A stick is a must for any good flight sim.

BUT - try and get one which twists for rudder control. The MS FFB2 does this as do the cheaper MS Sidewinder precision pro 2 and some of the Logitech ones etc...

The Saitek X-45 is a good stick, but it is seriuosly let down by not having a twist action for rudder on the stick (it uses a very tricky rocker bar on the throttle as an alternative - regarded by almost everyone as a poor alternative). I have used the MSFF2, Sidewinder and X-45. I ended up having to buy rudder pedals to go with the X-45 because I just couldn't get the hang of using the rocker bar for rudder. The X-45 plus pedals is a great combination but far from cheap. If I had to use just one stick I would probably go with the MS FF2 (this is out of production now, and shops are getting rid of them at very good prices) or the cheaper MS Precision Pro 2, which is an excellent stick and uses the same stick assembly as the FF version.

Finally, force feedback is OK but not an essential for IL-2. The main problem with the MS F2 is that it doesn't work well with XP and MS have anounced they are not going to upgrade the drivers. This means that the Sidewinder controller software for modding the forces will not work so you are stuck with the default forces, including some pretty over-the-top shaking from cannon fire. I usually use mine with the FF turned off to avoid this.

Regards,

RocketDog.

LEXX_Luthor
12-24-2003, 06:26 AM
If you are near one, goto WalMarts and get a 20$ Saitek Cyborg stick with only 3 buttons (but best throttle anywhere) until you decide what to do. That's what I use and its actually the best stick out there. If you want a more expensive Nvida or ATI stick (or whatever) you can get one later.



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.

GvSAP_Dart
12-24-2003, 07:42 AM
Well, it really depends on your addiction level.

For many, many years I used your standard two-button joystick, a FlightStick that did me proud.

When it died after five years (what a bit of junk, eh? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) I went with the X-45.

First, I'm a spaz at this, so lots of over corrections, stalling, spinning, etc. The "twisty stick" I tried with force feedback was disasterous! I was unintentionally applying rudder all of the time, which didn't help my flying.

And the force feedback stuff didn't agree with me - I had it either too high or too soft and it just felt unnatural and weird. It was actually the opposite of immersion.

So I went with the X-45, which isn't twisty stick, is fairly stiff, has a nice throw distance, and has a bunch of buttons that for the most part I don't use.

I did reverse the throttle direction to where back is more to get the rudder rocker switch thingy in a place where I could reach it more easily inside FB's control panel.

Indeed, if it weren't for TeamSpeak and TrackIR commands, the thing would be completely "programmed" inside IL-2!

It's lasted two years now without a blip, and considering that I fly just about every night for two-three (okay, four) hours that's quite a statement.

The new Saitek drivers are great in XP, which is very good, too.

http://www.darts-page.com for more foolishness

SteveKg
12-24-2003, 08:49 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifOnce again thanks for all the replies.

Perhaps I should have said earlier that my OS is WinXP. From what I've seen here and in reviews so far the Saitek X 45 seems to be one of the few sticks that is compatible with XP. Is this so?

Cheers

Steve

RocketDog
12-24-2003, 10:42 AM
Don't worry about XP. Only the MS FF2 has glitches with it, and even those are very minor. XP has been around for long enough now that pretty much anything you can buy will be OK with it.

Regards.

RocketDog.

PS - if you go for the X-45 you may well end up needing rudder pedals. It would be worth looking at the costs of doimg that. Good pedals are actually more expensive than flight sticks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Aardvark892
12-24-2003, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveKg:
Thank you all very much for your replies - much appreciated.
I've looked at various reviews and at other threads here about joysticks and I'm still not sure which to go for. FFB seems to be generally recommended, although someone called "Leadspitter" (who might perhaps be advised to consult a dentist if the problem persists) says FFB causes problems.
Which is best? X 45, MS FFB2, Thrustmaster Topgun Afterburner? Others?
I'll let you know what I eventually get, sometime after Christmas now. May save up to get a decent one.

Happy christmas all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm using a Microsoft FFB Sidewinder 2, and it's perfect. I've had absolutely no problems with it (once I got my settings right, which wasn't very hard to do) and it's been a blast. Nothing changes the game more than FFB, other than the TrackIR... but we won't go into that considering how expensive it is. I also don't want to start yet another pro/anti TrackIR war here. So just forget I mentioned it everyone, k?

-SSgt Tim Schuster, USAF
-8th MXS Inspection Section
-Kunsan AB, ROK

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Aardvark892/PC_Stealth2.jpg

Recon_609IAP
12-24-2003, 10:29 PM
I suggest x45.

Also - pull up the QMB, put in some friendly bombers, practice flying behind them and shooting them down.

Then, do the same with a friendly fighter.

After you are done, try putting in one enemy fighter- perhaps give him no ammo.

In other words, practice slowly and build up as you go.

Read about energy management and different combat moves such as a split-s, high and low yo-yo's, etc..

What I found that made flying so much was it is challenging and is not something you master quickly, but rather slowly - however, quite rewarding.

S!
609IAP_Recon

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg
Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

Recon_609IAP
12-24-2003, 11:05 PM
Steve,

I also suggest reading this:

http://www.vulch.cwc.net/manual.html

Good luck and hope to cya in the skies!

(written for Air Warrior, but still applicable in FB)

S!
609IAP_Recon

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg
Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

WWSandMan
12-25-2003, 12:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteveKg:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifOnce again thanks for all the replies.

Perhaps I should have said earlier that my OS is WinXP. From what I've seen here and in reviews so far the Saitek X 45 seems to be one of the few sticks that is compatible with XP. Is this so?

Cheers

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not entirely true, as most joysticks are compatable with WinXP. You'll probably want to ensure your joystick purchase is centered on fairly new models (most -all?- of which use USB connections). Older joysticks, most of which use gameport connections, may give you trouble under WinXP.

Best of luck with your new hobby. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.smsp.org/sandman/wwpaints/WWLogo_PFsm.gif

Commanding Officer,
Wing Walkers -virtual- Tactical Fighter Wing

SteveKg
12-27-2003, 11:26 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifThanks for all the help you lot.

I've just ordered the X45 from dabs at just over 60 and I can't wait for it to arrive (hurry up postman!!!).

Big thanks to new_michapma for the link to the IL2 guide - much help for me here.

Hope you've all had a great Christmas and Happy New Year.

Fireof59
12-27-2003, 09:41 PM
I learned to fly another SIM with a basic stick but quickly needed something better. I now have a complete CH Setup, Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Rudders. I would suggest springing for a complete setup from the start but if you can't, get at least the stick, throttle and rudder functionality in one. I do believe just about any "twisty handle" stick will give you all 3.

Good Luck

SteveKg
01-06-2004, 10:51 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifHello and Happy New Year to you all.

The X45 arrived today! The manual recommends Quick Install (drivers only) for "Typical users", the Full Install (drivers plus SST software) being suitable for "Advanced Users". Now clearly I'm not an advanced user (yet!) and I have no idea what function to assign to each button or whatever on the throttle and stick. I've downloaded the SST Programming Software guide from Saitek but I havn't read it yet. Saitek don't have any profiles to download for IL-2 and I wonder if any are available elsewhere (I'm sure one of you out there will know).
I think it would make more sense to install the SST with the drivers despite what the manual says. What do you think?
As ever any advice will be much appreciated.

Steve

LeChuck59
01-06-2004, 12:52 PM
I just got an X45 myself. You and I may not be advanced users, but IL-2 is an advanced sim so you should go ahead and install the SST Programming Software if you haven't already. I then recommend downloading adlabs6's IL-2 profile for the X45 from his website at http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/#X45
Load his profile into SST and you're good to go, however you will probobly need to remap Gunsight View off of delete from inside IL-2. For whatever reason, using the pinky or mode switch inputs registers as a Delete so you don't want to have that key mapped to anything.

tenmmike
01-06-2004, 01:13 PM
hi and welcome to the sim..i cant but stop and respond....the x-45 is a nice stick( i have along withg a msffb2).the rudder control on the x-45 is imho ..horrendus..so what i got going is a msffb2 as my main stick and the x-45 as my throttle and a button bay.........if you think you might or have fallen in love with this sim (hope ya do)ya might wanna look into getting the msffb2 as it is either fixing to or has stoped production,,force feed back is the way to go ..with it you can feel your plane fixing to stall etc..dont wory about the driver issuse ..its been over blown and the new 4.0 fixes it all or near all any way ...i have xp home and have zero issues

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

tenmmike
01-06-2004, 01:24 PM
and again...i sugest ya just go into quick mission builder and just fly around....get ya a target plane and go in to loadout and put it at "emty" shootem up ...have fun ..then let them have default load out so they can shoot back that way you will see its hard to get these planes down...then after you can control your plane (each plane has it own personality) start trying to takeoff and land ..once you can do that youll be ready ..once again welcom you have found the best sim there is.........if you have pc problems we have the best tech guys you will ever find any where

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

SteveKg
01-09-2004, 11:46 AM
Hello All

I've looked at the adlabs site (thanks for the link LeChuck59) and that profile is for IL-2 FB. I havn't got FB (yet!), I've got IL-2 Sturmovik. Will the adlabs profile work with the original version of the game? I havn't downloaded any patches yet as I havn't finished with the tutorials.
I've read the Saitek SST stuff from their site and programming the buttons etc seems reasonably straight forward. The problem for me is that my lack of experience means I don't know what functions to apply to the various controls on the stick or throttle units. Do the profiles used for X45's tend to be much the same for you X45 users out there (convergent evolution?) or do they vary widely from one profile to another?

Steve