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View Full Version : Interview for the La-5 and La-7 (experienced pilots needed)



michapma
02-04-2004, 02:52 AM

michapma
02-04-2004, 02:52 AM

ELEM
02-04-2004, 03:14 AM
Er! Why no Polikarpov series? That's my choice.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

michapma
02-04-2004, 03:47 AM
Well, set up an interview. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If more people would set up interviews, we'd cover more planes faster. Sounds good to me!

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michapma
02-04-2004, 07:47 AM
I've made the original FW-190 interview thread available in PDF format. It's still 25 pages, but at least you can print it out. If you want to print it, for good eyes it is still legible at two pages per sheet.

I'm anxious to see what plane "wins", and who would like to volunteer to answer questions!

Cheers,
Mike

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michapma
02-04-2004, 01:34 PM
bump

Needs visibility to get the votes in.

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michapma
02-05-2004, 03:33 AM
Only 27 votes, but that gives a clear indication of what people would like to see.


Do we have any Lavochkin experts in the house?

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Koan___
02-05-2004, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
Previously I did an http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51110714&p=1 here in GD on the FW-190. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where can one find the text of the interview?
Thanks

michapma
02-05-2004, 07:32 AM
Right here in this thread, just not yet.

The community is waiting with bated breath for some of the more experienced virtual La-5 and La-7 pilots to step forward and answer my questions about these fine aircraft.

For an example of this kind of interview, see the FW 190 interview linked in the first post.

If you meant the 190 interview, just follow the link that you quoted.

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michapma
02-05-2004, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
I've made the original FW-190 interview thread available in PDF format.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've just realized that I didn't link to the actual document. Well, here it is:
FW 190 interview as PDF (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/FW-190_interview_Ubi_GD_forum.PDF) (186kB)

I realize that I'm bumping my own thread quite a bit here, but I find it somewhat amazing that nobody seems to see themselves as a qualified Lavochkin pilot. You don't have to be the greatest ace or have intimate knowledge of the plane, just enough experience to share with the community its strengths and weaknesses, and some tips on how to use it.

Come on, let's see some volunteers! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Zen--
02-05-2004, 02:50 PM
I was going to try and post something concrete, but got sidetracked by work and so edited it out. It was mess http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


I'll try and post something later this evening.
-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

[This message was edited by Zen-- on Thu February 05 2004 at 02:01 PM.]

michapma
02-06-2004, 03:14 AM
So Zen, you're willing to answer some questions about the La's? That's great. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif We have plenty of time, but not so many volunteers. I'm sure others will jump in after we get started.

I'll start with some of the relevant facts about the Lavochkin series, quoting the aircraft files at il2sturmovik.com and speaking from my own experience.

Concerning the La-5: "This was one of the main Soviet fighters during the Second World War. The aircraft was developed as the next LaGG-3 version." A great feature or the La-5 is its speed. Compared to late-war aircraft it's mediocre, but for 1942 it is fast at low alt for its time. A drawback is dreadful high-altitude characteristics. In Forgotten Skies we are at Stalingrad, in late 1942. I finally had reason to learn the Yak-1 and La-5, as these were our main choices. The Yak I prefer for altitude because it can still roll nicely and turn somewhat above 4000 and 5000m. But down low, the La-5 is clearly faster. I am able to catch a G-2 and engage it at will. Forget it in the Yak-1! The listed specs at sea level have the La-5 at 540-558kph and the G-2 at 535. I believe it, and that 20+ extra kph shows.

The La-5F got an upgraded version of the La-5's M-82 engine: with the M-82F, "the maximum power of the M-82 became the nominal continuous power with no limit on time use." In fact it seems I can run the La-5 for a very long time on WEP before it wants to overheat, so I'm not sure of the real advantage. The La-5F seems to have little other advantage over the La-5 except that it has a bubble canopy and thus much better rear visibility.

That's a good start into the series I guess, I'll offer a few more comments, but we'll get more into these things and the later developments of the La-5FN and La-7 as we go. I'll be glad to have somebody set my limited knowledge straight and provide us all with tips on how to use these VVS fighters to their potential. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The armament of the La series is quite simple: 2x20mm ShVAK cannons in the La-5, La-5F, La-5FN and La-7, with the first variation appearing in the La-7 that can use 3x20mm B-20 cannons. Those are the facts, but there's more behind it than just that. Gunnery in these are distinct, you have good hitting power and a fair reserve but very little spread, so accuracy is a must.

I haven't come to any solid conclusions about durability or turning ability for the La-5 and La-5F, beyond saying that they are competitive turners at low alt and horrible at high alt, and they seem to have no tendency to burn or come apart under light fire. I have an experience to share concerning performance at altitudes, although I am now delving into the subjective. I did once start an engagement at 7000m with a squadron mate against 3 109 G2s (1xAI and 2xhuman) and we lured the enemy 109s down. The AI engaged me as I came up a few hundred meters directly below them. (They were staying at the edge of contrail range, about 7000m, which they sometimes slipped up into; this was how we discovered them. The La-5 is much faster even at 6800m than at 7000m, so I was staying down to catch them, although I was at full WEP and they were gently cruising and even making slight turns for navigation as they approached their target.) I was pursuing and we led him down to 3000m or lower. After some desperate breaks and diving (he followed me down, we took him out and found the human G2s on our tail. However, now down in our preferred territory, we were able to use our speed and turning ability along with a bit of teamwork to dominate the G2s. This just underlines the importance of finding this aircraft's proper element.

Concerning diving ability, the Lavochkins have far less diving acceleration and top speeds than German fighter aircraft. This is well known. The La-5 itself seems to want to break up around 700 or 710 IAS in a dive. Or was that 600? I can't remember! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The La-5FN was certainly considered to be one of and by many the most dangerous VVS fighter in the original IL-2 Sturmovik. It is fast, climbs and turns exceptionally well, and can pack a punch. There is also obviously a lot of controversy surrounding the La-7 along in FB: many claim that they take hits too well and retain too much energy. The planes seem to take punishment well for wooden constructions, although certainly they have a fair amount of armor. Here we are not concerned about how things should be, but rather how they are.


There, I have tried to provide some first impressions. Now to actually ask you a question! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Do you fly the Lavochkin types regularly? If so, what attracted you to them? Do you fly all four models?

I'm looking forward to reading your impressions.

Cheers,
Mike

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robban75
02-07-2004, 04:24 AM
A little bump for michapma! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Extreme_One
02-07-2004, 04:31 AM
Looking forward to reading the next interview....

Come on you La-La jocks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S! Simon
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michapma
02-10-2004, 01:29 AM
Bump for the interview.

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LEXX_Luthor
02-10-2004, 01:33 AM
I would enjoy I~16 and I~153 especially the handling in turbulence and engine cut-out and ways to take off and land outside the official FB airports (it can be done).

We may wish to wait until after June though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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robban75
02-10-2004, 01:46 AM
Where are all the Lavochkin drivers? I know they exist! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Oh'well, I usually fly them just for comparison with the Fw 190.
Apart from topspeed the entire La series has a crushing advantage over all the 190A's versions. All of the La's climb much faster than they did in RL unfortunatelly. This is mostly noticable at high altitude. The La-7 for instance climbs faster than the Fw 190D-9 from 5000 to 8000m. It's especially unfortunate for the Fw 190A's as they climb too slow, especially the A-9. So compared to RL this gives the La series an exaggerated advantage. Now the La series DID outclimb the Wurger in RL for sure, but in FB it's much too noticable.
Diving speeds for the La's have been increased. The La-7 can now dive safely at speeds close to 800km/h IAS. So diving with German and American fighters is managable, the greater E retention of the La allows it to catch them if they try to zoom back to altitude. The La-7 is by far the fastest accelerating fighter in FB and its topspeed at low altitudes is unmatched. Only the D-9 comes close. The superior acceleration of the La-7 will asure it to outfly every other plane in FB. I haven't tested the acceleration of earlier variants of the La, so I wont comment on them.
When fighting German and American fighters at high speed, the La-7 is preferable over the other versions as its high speed agility is much better. At the lower speeds it can roll with a Fw 190. The La-5/F/FN in FB isn't quite up to par with the 190 in this regard.

Bare in mind that I have mostly compared the La's to the Fw 190A/D, and that other planes might be able to battle the La series differently. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

[This message was edited by robban75 on Tue February 10 2004 at 01:17 AM.]

robban75
02-10-2004, 02:44 PM
Aaaand,,,bump! Come on ya'll! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Zen--
02-10-2004, 04:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
So Zen, you're willing to answer some questions about the La's? That's great. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif We have plenty of time, but not so many volunteers. I'm sure others will jump in after we get started.
Do you fly the Lavochkin types regularly? If so, what attracted you to them? Do you fly all four models?

I'm looking forward to reading your impressions.

Cheers,
Mike

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a matter of fact I do fly them regularly, my favorite is the La5 straight when flying VVS in 43 servers. It's a great plane (they all are in fact). By regularly, I mean that I spend a couple hours a week in them, compared to 10-20 or more in the D9 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (and actually my time in the La series is in addition to the P47, P51 etc...I suppose the Dora and the 190F8 take up about 80% of my flight time, with everything else sharing the remaining 20%)

I rarely fly them in FR though despite their superior visibility and better gunsight view. They just don't do anything for me immersion-wise which is the main reason I like FR and that is why I have grown to love the FW so much in game (It's been my favorite since I was a kid, but in game it is a really really fun plane to fly). In FR, to me nothing can match the sense of immersion of a FW except perhaps the P47. Like a lot of planes the La series just never really did it for me despite it's outstanding characteristics...perhaps I am afraid of cheating on my beloved Dora lol.

In seriousness I like the La series alot...a whole lot. It might sound weird, but I just don't like to fly them very much because I don't find stall fighting appealing in general. My world view of sims is colored by my real life experiences and historical reading, I generally don't stall fight because E fighting is much better and is more rewarding to me. It's hard for me to intentionally do things that experience has taught me to be less efficient than another way...if that makes any sense.


Anyway, as for it's performance I won't comment on the E retention issue or implied bias...there is more than enough commentary on that and rightly so. I'm not the only one who's noticed it and others have made excellent points about it, so I'll make my comments under the assumption of the moment that there are no modelling issues. All of that will be worked out in due time anyway and it's not something that worries me in the slightest. One plane or another always has issues, you learn to live with it and do the best you can with what you have. In the end, superior tactics will usually defeat most anything in FB because the relative overmodelling differences are so much less than they used to be in IL2 original.



To me the most overrated aspect of the plane is it's turn rate....people assume that it's a TnB fighter only and fail to take advantage of it's other not so famous but highly effective capabilities. This leads to overconfidence and causes poor flying imho...and needlessly so. A basic understanding of the plane will work wonders for online success but most people seem to fail to really learn the plane. They just pull back on the stick and try to let the La do the work.

The series is best suited as E fighters in my opinion and extremely versatile against all types of planes. They can outrun most planes in the game, outclimb most of them, outturn most of them, is as durable or better than most and has firepower comparable to all but the most heavily armed German fighters. They really do have an advantage of some sort over just about every class of plane in the game and that means you can mix and match styles to overcome anything the other guy is better at...this is not an accident, Lavochkin was not stupid, nor did he get some kind of idiot's luck when he made the plane. The designer was brilliant and the La series shows this in fine style.

Reliance on turn performance only is a mistake with this plane and is the reason that the series isn't by far the most dominant plane in the game online. The few planes that outturn it can be defeated by superior vertical performance, the planes that do better in the vertical can be defeated by actually getting and maintaining altitude and using turn performance as a backup or a threat to force the enemy into predictable behavior...but this is something you rarely see in La's or Yaks online.

What works for German planes...speed and altitude, works for the La series and works even better in my opinion. Get higher than the enemy and you are going to be hard to beat with the only limitation being raw dive speed. More on that later, but altitude works for you vs all kinds of planes. If you meet a 109 and you are higher than him, you have deprived him of his one biggest commonly perceived advantage. (He has more than that, but thats another thread) If you meet another La or a Ki84/other agile TnB plane and you are higher than him, not only do you have identical performance but you have the E advantage on him also.

I really don't understand why more La pilots don't fly high...it's not like the performance drops off significantly as long as you remember to drop the mixture over 4500 meters or so (look for those brown plumes coming from both sides of the engine...see those and drop your mix). The La can climb with any German fighter at virtually all altitudes...the myth that it is a low altitude fighter is just that -- a myth. It is another common misconception, just like the commonly held belief that the FW series is a pure BnZ breed. Bah I say! Experience has shown me otherwise.

If flown as an E fighter, the La series is a tough nut to crack. The only real escape tactic is to dive away from them (other than a somewhat risky overshoot attempt or scissors, depending on the plane types involved), but then again by doing so the plane diving away has lost the initiative while the La retains control of the sky. The essence of E fighting is to fly until you gain a sizeable speed or altitude advantage over the enemy and then convert that to a positional advantage or use it for repeated BnZ passes...the La series is very well designed for this because of that previously mentioned stellar turn rate. The E advantage it needs to gain is smaller than other types (for example the P47 or 190A series) because it can use it's turn rate to convert angles without much speed loss...a handy attribute to say the least. The BnZ portion of successful E fighting does not have to be the lofty 4000 meter Luftwaffe passes...it can be a few hundred meters even depending on the planes involved and the relative E states.

Once the E advantage is gained, all the cards are basically in a well flown La's hands...the enemy cannot typically outturn you, he usually is not fast enough to outrun you and he cannot outclimb you (especially if you are within guns range already). About all he can do is dive away depending on altitude, but there again if the La doesn't dive you'll continue to control the altitude and he'd be pretty stupid to come back up to you if the La loosely follows him. Winning is not always about blowing the other guys wing off, sometimes it's about preventing him from doing what he wants to do...denying him his airspace is a victory of sorts all by itself. Keep that in mind when you fly the La or anything else, it is not important to destroy everything in your line of site...it's only important to destroy or drive off the most threatening targets in your area. I guess that depends on the way you play the game really, some people like to get wheels up and hop in the furball, others tend to fly high and BnZ, some are E fighters...thats all personal preference and all of that is fine by me. I like what I like and it's ok by me if everyone else likes something else, I'll just quietly keep doing my thing as always. My points raised here probably aren't intended for the pure TnB crowd, as a general observation they don't tend to use altitude as much as other kinds of players do and there is nothing wrong with that, just my points are made from an E fighters point of view really.


In summary:

Most used as a TnB fighter, but is an outstanding and fun E fighter.
Poor dive speed, use caution when pursuing mach 2 190's if they dive for the deck.
Good firepower, excellent visibility.
Can equal or exceed most attributes of any plane in the game...what it cannot beat in one area in usually can in another.



S~ and sorry for the delayed response.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

robban75
02-10-2004, 04:44 PM
An outstanding post Zen! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif That about says it all! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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crazyivan1970
02-10-2004, 04:52 PM
AKA_ guys seem to be really good in LA-5/7 some very impressive flying. Find Bogan or MAJ_BLASTO

Good post Zen, very interesting. Personally i don`t like any of La series, i don`t fly them, therefore no comments from me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
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