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BigKahuna_GS
06-02-2004, 06:42 AM
S!

Luthier can the Corsair's front antenna be removed for better forward visibility ?

My dad flew this plane in WW2 and he said it was standard practice to remove the front antenna off of the cowling for better forward visibility.

Thanks, 609IAP_Kahuna

http://www.x-plane.org/users/thomasdw1/WWII/img_7621.jpg


___

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________



http://www.warplaneswarehouse.com/planes_lg/MS1AOO_LG.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

BigKahuna_GS
06-02-2004, 06:42 AM
S!

Luthier can the Corsair's front antenna be removed for better forward visibility ?

My dad flew this plane in WW2 and he said it was standard practice to remove the front antenna off of the cowling for better forward visibility.

Thanks, 609IAP_Kahuna

http://www.x-plane.org/users/thomasdw1/WWII/img_7621.jpg


___

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________



http://www.warplaneswarehouse.com/planes_lg/MS1AOO_LG.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

BigKahuna_GS
06-02-2004, 10:42 AM
S!

Bump


http://www.warplaneswarehouse.com/planes_lg/MS1AOO_LG.jpg

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________


http://www.warplaneswarehouse.com/planes_lg/MS1AOO_LG.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

Fliger747
06-02-2004, 01:18 PM
The front "antenna" was really a mast to support the antenna wire which was for the HF radio's. Any plane that had this removed had progressed to VHF radio's later in the war. The plane in the photo is apparently a modern flying "warbird", noting the civi VHF comm antenna's mounted atop the turtledeck.

Presence of the mast would be a time appropriate feature.

KIMURA
06-02-2004, 02:48 PM
As far as I can see in "Squadron/Signal F4U Corsair in Action" about 1/3 of any F4U-1A had the front antennas removed.

Kimura

IV_JG51_Razor
06-02-2004, 02:52 PM
I've just been looking through Michael O'Leary's book, "US Naval Fighters of WWII", and found numerous photos of F4u's, from -1s to -4s both with, and without that forward antenna. In a picture of a formation of VF-17 Jolly Rogers taken in '44, they had neither the forward one nor the one aft of the cockpit! So, it would seem that Kahuna's request isn't at all out of line.

I wish this forum allowed us to post pictures.

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

VF-17_Jolly
06-02-2004, 03:26 PM
http://www.arrakis-ttm.com/vf-17/gifs/formation.jpg

jolly rogers 43-44 no antenna...

http://www.skyknights.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jolly.jpg

mllaneza
06-02-2004, 09:13 PM
Ctrl-F1 !



/me ducks

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

BigKahuna_GS
06-03-2004, 03:53 AM
S!

__________________________________________________ _______________________
Fliger--The front "antenna" was really a mast to support the antenna wire which was for the HF radio's. Any plane that had this removed had progressed to VHF radio's later in the war. The plane in the photo is apparently a modern flying "warbird", noting the civi VHF comm antenna's mounted atop the turtledeck.
Presence of the mast would be a time appropriate feature.
__________________________________________________ ________________________


I realize this is not a wartime Corsair and is modernized---but hey it was a great airshow pic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The antenna wire was usually run from the top of the rear antenna mast and secured to the top of tail. If their was no rear antenna mast, there was a stanchion right behind the cockpit as an attachment point.

The Jolly Rogers VF-17 front antenna mast can be clearly seen during their carrier qualifications trails at sea. Once VF-17 was assigned to the Solomon Islands you can then see they removed the front antenna as they were in the combat zone. Thanks Jolly for the nice Pic !

It all depends "when" the picture was taken. As a general rule, the Corsair's front antenna mast was removed in the combat area to enhance forward visibility.

______

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________


http://www.warplaneswarehouse.com/planes_lg/MS1AOO_LG.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

Stuntie
06-03-2004, 01:47 PM
Why not have the earliest models with the forward mast and later models without.

Otherwise you get into silly arguments over when various squadrons did what field modifications to which aircraft.

Cheers.
Stuntie

stansdds
06-03-2004, 05:21 PM
Nope, sorry, way to simple! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Fliger747
06-03-2004, 06:15 PM
To confuse matters somewhat, some F4U-4's carried the MAST, as did some post war F4U-1D's.

Photos are not always 10% reliable for reference, as censors sometimes re-touched the photos. This was especially common with shipboard electronic installations (ie. radar).

Remember the MAST is not the antenna, the antenna is the WIRE running between the MAST and the top of the verticle stab.

I expect that they got a few extra knots out of the bird with the mast removed.

Flydutch
06-04-2004, 03:47 AM
Those Zeke/Zero pilots must have become realy scared when they saw the retouched photos, ****e they removed the forward field obstructor whe could hide behind when beeing chased by the Corsair!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fliger747:
To confuse matters somewhat, some F4U-4's carried the MAST, as did some post war F4U-1D's.

Photos are not always 10% reliable for reference, as censors sometimes re-touched the photos. This was especially common with shipboard electronic installations (ie. radar).

Remember the MAST is not the antenna, the antenna is the WIRE running between the MAST and the top of the verticle stab.

I expect that they got a few extra knots out of the bird with the mast removed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BigKahuna_GS
06-06-2004, 07:00 AM
S!

__________________________________________________ _____________________
Fliger--Remember the MAST is not the antenna, the antenna is the WIRE running between the MAST and the top of the verticle stab.

I expect that they got a few extra knots out of the bird with the mast removed
__________________________________________________ _________________________



All very good points !

It's just that my dad was a 30year veteran USMC pilot and he told me that was a SOP for the Corsair in the combat zone--front mast removal. Early and late models, look at VF-17 again they originally had some of the early "birdcage" models and removed the front mast on those also.



_________________

CCJ: What do you define as the most important things a fighter pilot must know to be successful, relating to air combat maneuvering?

Robert S. Johnson :
It's pretty simple, really. Know the absolute limits of your plane's capabilities.
Know its strengths and weaknesses. Know the strengths and weaknesses of you enemy's fighters. Never fight the way your enemy fights best. Always fight the way you fight best. Never be predictable.

In "Fighter Aces," aviation historians Raymond Tolliver
and Trevor Constable compared Johnson's record with that of two German aces.
Werner Molders was the first ace to score 100 aerial victories and Erich Hartmann is the top scoring ace of all time with 352.

The authors noted that
Johnson "emerges impressively from this comparison." He downed 28 planes in 91 sorties, while Molders took 142 sorties to do the same, and Hartmann, 194.
________


http://www.warplaneswarehouse.com/planes_lg/MS1AOO_LG.jpg

"Angels of Okinawa"

stansdds
06-06-2004, 06:28 PM
In my Corsair books, I see Corsairs both with and without the forward mast while in the combat area. The HF radio antenna wire was run from the top of the rudder to the foward mast, with the feed wire entering the fuselage just behind the cockpit. When the forward mast was removed, the HF antenna wire was run from the top of the rudder to the starboard horizontal stabilizer, then to the entrance behind the cockpit. The VHF antenna was a short whip antenna placed aft of the cockpit on the spine of the fuselage. I think that the VHF whip was usually covered by the aft mast, since the aft mast is about the same height as the whip aerial and tapers sharply to a point. All of the factory assembly line pictures do show a foward mast on all Corsairs through the -4 series. So the retention or deletion of the forward mast may have been more related to the aircraft's needs in whatever unit and area it was assigned.


That's a lot of variation in antenna arrangements. Generally, it seems that no matter what combination of attachment points were used, they were all the same in the aircraft of a given squadron. Well, except for one picture of the F4U-1D's and FG-1D's of VBF-6, on the USS Hancock, during March of 1945, some have the forward mast, some don't! So perhaps there are no hard and fast rules about the antenna arrangement on the Corsair. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif