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View Full Version : Maintenance 04/03/14 9am CET / 2pm GMT - Change in the Unique rule!



Aza404
02-18-2014, 05:20 PM
The maintenance will take Tuesday, march 4th at 2pm GMT / 9am CET. It will last around 2 hours.

In the meantime, Aza404 and Kimmundi will cast some recorded games on the Team Stream ! > www.twitch.tv/duelofchampions



Dear Champions,

The Might & Magic: Duel of Champions Development Team is introducing a modification to the Unique rule. This modification was planned for Base Set 02, but we are pushing it now to fix the balancing issue happening with some unique cards.

Here is the new Unique rule :

You can only have one copy of each card with the Unique subtype in your deck. Those cards also have special rules that ensure they cannot be played more than once in a game:

- A unique creature, building or ongoing spell or fortune that is destroyed is banished instead of going to the graveyard.
- A unique instant spell or fortune is banished after it is played.

Unique cards that would be put into the graveyard any other way (discarded, moved from the library, …) still go to the graveyard normally.

We hope to apply it into the live version of the game in the next few days and will keep you updated on the specific ETA.

Enjoy!

Aza and the DoC Team

PS: When it dies, the Shi-no-shi will be reshuffled straight into your library as written on the card.

Kinetic_42
02-18-2014, 05:28 PM
Dear Champions,

The Might & Magic: Duel of Champions Development Team is bringing a modification to the Unique rule. This modification was planned for Base Set 02, but we are pushing it now to fix the balancing issue happening with some unique cards.

Here is the new Unique rule :

You can only have one copy of each card with the Unique subtype in your deck. Those cards also have special rules that ensure they cannot be played more than once in a game:

- A unique creature, building or ongoing spell or fortune that is destroyed is banished instead of going to the graveyard.
- A unique instant spell or fortune is banished after it is played.

Unique cards that would be put into the graveyard any other way (discarded, moved from the library, …) still go to the graveyard normally.

We hope to apply it into the live version of the game in the next few days and will keep you updated on the specific ETA.

Enjoy!

Aza and the DoC Team

PS: When it dies, the Shi-no-shi will be reshuffled straight into your library as written on the card.

I'm not a huge fan of this change, frankly, as I feel like it is using a hammer to deal with issues that should be dealt with by using a scalpel. With that being said, it will cause a dramatic shift in the metagame. How much of one remains to be seen, but at least 3 very high level decks just became much less viable.

GarthRoscoe
02-18-2014, 05:33 PM
Yay. No more having to kill Anael three times.

ShardHawk
02-18-2014, 05:33 PM
What happens with unique cards that go from library to graveyard(mill, garant's purge...)?

Aza404
02-18-2014, 05:34 PM
What happens with unique cards that go from library to graveyard(mill, garant's purge...)?

As stated in the original post:
Unique cards that would be put into the graveyard any other way (discarded, moved from the library, …) still go to the graveyard normally.

ShardHawk
02-18-2014, 05:35 PM
Oops.. somehow missed that sentence.

Thanks for answering again =)

zuom000
02-18-2014, 05:38 PM
Necro decks are going to be hurt a lot, if atropos stays in his current form.

Mirlo1974
02-18-2014, 05:41 PM
At least Atropos should go to graveyard. I finished allrdy necro in swiss tournaments so it isnt very important for me, but u should give Atropos at least the ability to go to the graveyard.

trupiciel
02-18-2014, 05:44 PM
I love this change!

I wouldn't if I had to play in b2j tho :D

Edit:
Regarding ATROPOS - you can still town portal / bridge him back to your hand and re-use. A faction power status shouldn't be about one card imo.

Is this a nerf to necro? I don't think it is. It's a nerf to haven, inferno and academy mostly, thus making necro a more viable option.

Is this going to destroy control decks? Not at all, we had control decks that didn't rely on unique recursion in the past. You just need to adapt instead of whining. Hard, isn't it? :cool:

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 05:51 PM
Necro decks are going to be hurt a lot, if atropos stays in his current form.

Another nerf to Necro. That's exactly what was needed.

Now even Adar looks like a t3 hero :-)

@devs.

So what exactly are you going to do to make Necro a playable faction in the Open format? The only changes you announced so far are the Unique nerfs which hits Necro hard, and the Banshee nerf, which is not a big nerf, but still a nerf).



Regarding ATROPOS - you can still town portal / bridge him back to your hand and re-use.

yea, sure. People just didn't know about that - thats the reason why Necro is the weakest faction at the moment.


A faction power status shouldn't be about one card imo.

I agree: it shouldn't. But it is. And now even this one card which gives Necro a chance in the competitive game is nerfed. Are you really happy with that?

malkorion
02-18-2014, 05:53 PM
I'm not a huge fan of this change, frankly, as I feel like it is using a hammer to deal with issues that should be dealt with by using a scalpel. With that being said, it will cause a dramatic shift in the metagame. How much of one remains to be seen, but at least 3 very high level decks just became much less viable.

This will affect the following cards:

Creatures:
Eleonore, the Voice of Harmony
Anael, Angel of Redemption
Doom Bringer
Hikyu, Fists of Fury
Atropos, Weaver of the Dead
Damran, the Tainted
Blood Caller
Zefiria, Windchaser
Nyorai Sairensa
Raya, Sibilant Seductress
Hasafah, the Unseen Arrow
Nur, Spellweaver

Note: Shi-No-Shi is an exception, because it will still be shuffled into your deck.

Spells:
The Light of Tomorrow
The Song of the Lost
The Might of Nature
The Strength of the Sea
The Forbidden Flame
The Silent Death
The Gate to Nowhere

Fortunes:
Cassandra's Imperial Devotion
Prison (this means no more prison recycling to lock the game. finally!)
Garant's Purge
Seria's Legion
Kat's Grand Finale
Yukiko's Shrine
Arcane Intuition (too powerful if recurred)
Altar of Asha
Time of Need

Buildings:
Tower of the Elders
Tower of the Gardener
Tower of the Inventor
Tower of the Dreamer
Tower of the Smith

Off the top of my head, what this change will bring:

1) No more recycling of Prison is a welcome change.
2) Atropos loop with Adar-Malik is finally over.
3) Dhamiria can no longer recur The Forbidden Flame, or Doom Bringer with Cosmic Singularity.

However, you can still bury Unique cards in your graveyard, meaning that reanimation, and returning it to your hand still works. However, milling will not remove the card.

S9TF1
02-18-2014, 05:55 PM
Well, it's about time!:cool:

Mirlo1974
02-18-2014, 05:55 PM
They destroy all interesting Deck build and make the game to a hack and slay version

luorax
02-18-2014, 05:58 PM
Another nerf to Necro. That's exactly what was needed.

Now even Adar looks like a t3 hero :-)

Still better than mindlessly getting back 3 creatures per turn from your GY. And this is coming from someone whose first faction was Necro, and whose 'first' hero was Adar-Malik.

I don't actually think this change would be all that needed if the recycle cards had been done with caution. Using Graveyard to get back Atropos is not the end of the world, for example. But hey, this is just my opinion :)

I wonder what's gonna happen to Dhamiria for example - although this is going to change the meta so drastically that we'll need some time to figure out which decks are the new T1 ones (Cassandra and Kelthor don't seem to be affected by it at all though).

malkorion
02-18-2014, 05:58 PM
They destroy all interesting Deck build and make the game to a hack and slay version

If aggro decks were actually playable, I wouldn't care. But at the moment, control, lock, mill and stall are just dominating everything else.

luorax
02-18-2014, 06:01 PM
If aggro decks were actually playable, I wouldn't care. But at the moment, control, lock, mill and stall are just dominating everything else.

Aren't mill and lock just subtypes of stall? Because frankly, that's all they do - stall, until you get your combo pieces or mill your opponent out.

jkk89
02-18-2014, 06:03 PM
Great. Finally they distroyed my deck. Also they ruined the BtJ tournament. Wp!

Mirlo1974
02-18-2014, 06:08 PM
Why dont they just make a new game? They destroy everything interesting in this game. Only stupid mob vs mob will be left after all changes.



P.s.: Town portal only helps if your creature isnt destroyed

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 06:08 PM
Still better than mindlessly getting back 3 creatures per turn from your GY.

Necro barely seen the competitive game. Do you think it's going to be better now?



And this is coming from someone whose first faction was Necro, and whose 'first' hero was Adar-Malik.

Adar Malik is hit hard, but the necro fortune decks have now no chance at all.



I don't actually think this change would be all that needed if the recycle cards had been done with caution. Using Graveyard to get back Atropos is not the end of the world, for example. But hey, this is just my opinion :)

IMHO Necro shouldn't be nerfed by any means. Any. Necro needs a major buff and instead.



I wonder what's gonna happen to Dhamiria for example - although this is going to change the meta so drastically that we'll need some time to figure out which decks are the new T1 ones (Cassandra and Kelthor don't seem to be affected by it at all though).

Dhamiria will be all right. First removal is with Forbidden Flame and later on she has recycled Armageddons.

Mythrit
02-18-2014, 06:17 PM
Dhamiria nerf is needed, but she will still rule

Xampiz
02-18-2014, 06:29 PM
Finally!

No more recycling op cards. Necro surely will get hit hard, but it is a needed change.

Dreamer117
02-18-2014, 06:30 PM
Banishing all uniques on removal is a brute force approach that should not have been considered. The real problem is really the Singularity mechanic. Changing singularity to shuffle all non-unique permanents would have been better. Now, by forcefully removing all uniques, cards like Altar of Asha are suddenly less appealing or even hard to make room for (for example for bringing back Anael or any other creature).

I wish the devs would reconsider this. I am NOT a fan of Sandalphon Lock for example, with the infinite recycling of Prison, but banishing all uniques on destruction is a step back, not a step forward.

Other cases like Adar Malik did not need this additional nerf, as recycling of Atropos was a 'rare' occasion, as it usually sets you back and leaves you vulnerable too early in the games. His ability could be made to affect only non-unique creatures as a hot fix, but removing all uniques with no exception is not the way.

The only cards that should be able to reshuffle or bring back uniques are cards like 'graveyard' or 'Altar of Asha' where the ability has to be targeted. I even see no problem with Adar-Malik's ability as it has to be used RIGHT after the death of the creature. Abuse of Singularity is the problem here.

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 06:35 PM
Necro surely will get hit hard, but it is a needed change.

Because Necro is such an OP faction.


Banishing all uniques on removal is a brute force approach that should not have been considered. The real problem is really the Singularity mechanic. Changing singularity to shuffle all non-unique permanents would have been better. Now, by forcefully removing all uniques, cards like Altar of Asha are suddenly less appealing or even hard to make room for (for example for bringing back Anael or any other creature).

I wish the devs would reconsider this. I am NOT a fan of Sandalphon Lock for example, with the infinite recycling of Prison, but banishing all uniques on destruction is a step back, not a step forward.

Other cases like Adar Malik did not need this additional nerf, as recycling of Atropos was a 'rare' occasion, as it usually sets you back and leaves you vulnerable too early in the games. His ability could be made to affect only non-unique creatures as a hot fix, but removing all uniques with no exception is not the way.

The only cards that should be able to reshuffle or bring back uniques are cards like 'graveyard' or 'Altar of Asha' where the ability has to be targeted. I even see no problem with Adar-Malik's ability as it has to be used RIGHT after the death of the creature. Abuse of Singularity is the problem here.

This!

Xampiz
02-18-2014, 06:39 PM
Because Necro is such an OP faction.

No it isnīt, learn to read.
Itīs a needed change because of infinite unique recycling.

Dipl0mate
02-18-2014, 06:40 PM
To all the people who are disappointed with this change, where were you in the countless threads dealing with this question ? I remember being quite alone when defending such concepts as epic recycling. Im sure some of you did (and I remember some of your posts about it jkkk) but we are definitly a huge minority.

If you had talk before, maybe we wont be here today.

Gadjemil
02-18-2014, 06:40 PM
Usual Ubi at work here.

luorax
02-18-2014, 06:42 PM
Because Necro is such an OP faction.

A faction sucking *** doesn't justify a broken mechanism. Fix the brokenness and buff the faction. They're doing the firs thing now, and BS2 will take care of the second thing.

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 06:44 PM
Itīs a needed change because of infinite unique recycling.

Sure, cos it couldn't be done different way (like nerfing Cosmic Singularity for example).

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 06:46 PM
A faction sucking *** doesn't justify a broken mechanism. Fix the brokenness and buff the faction. They're doing the firs thing now, and BS2 will take care of the second thing.

Good. Now tell me how the BS2 will serve this purpose for the Open format.

It's a genuine question.

luorax
02-18-2014, 06:48 PM
Good. Now tell me how the BS2 will serve this purpose for the Open format.

It's a genuine question.

It won't for Open, but they said they had plans for Necro in the following expansion, because they know how hard/bad it is going for us when get to go 1st.

ogrimar---moi
02-18-2014, 06:51 PM
Sure, cos it couldn't be done different way (like nerfing Cosmic Singularity for example).

Problem with nerfing singularity is it will restrict cards creation. Uniques are designed to be a really strong card that can be used only once. Even if i really love necro, i know atropos's recursion was something bad. I think that's the reason why necro is so bad presently: cause create a good card in a deck that can play it again and again is pretty hard to balance.


This will for sure change our gameplay, and probably change the metagame, but i think it's something good cause it will allow mmdoc to progress.

Xampiz
02-18-2014, 06:52 PM
Sure, cos it couldn't be done different way (like nerfing Cosmic Singularity for example).

Yeah, could also be that way. But then we could still get the uniques back (mainly creatures) using spells or fortunes. In this way the recycling would still exist.

I like them being banished, but i wouldn't rage if it were the way you proposed.

KoT1eTA
02-18-2014, 07:14 PM
The real problem is really the Singularity mechanic. Changing singularity to shuffle all non-unique permanents would have been better.

Then how do you get your uniques back if they get milled or discarded?

xX-St0rmSt4r-Xx
02-18-2014, 07:29 PM
You're actually sponsoring a huge event from Uraxor, Beat the Jack, remember that ? Owwh, have we sent our decklist already and is the tournament still in progress ? Yes Sir !

Obviously, the group phase won't be hurt by those modifications, but the final top 8 will be !

Next time, please, think about the huge currents events... I wouldn't be one of those guys playin' an useless sandallock or dham loop, definitely

malkorion
02-18-2014, 07:30 PM
Then how do you get your uniques back if they get milled or discarded?

I think that it still works, if you put the unique card in the graveyard by discarding/milling. You can even put it back, but once you play it - it's gone.

GenericManGuy
02-18-2014, 07:30 PM
Adar Malik was overrated. I did just as well, if not better, with Ariana.

The problem with Adar was that he didn't have Earth Grasp or Stone Shield, so he was really easy to rush down, and he didn't have dispel cards either, so other control decks could give him a lot of trouble.

This nerf hits him hard, sure, and I suppose it also hits fortune decks, but Ariana is still as good as before, and so are any other non-fortune, non-Malik necro decks.

What I don't like: this makes Sandallock unplayable:(

I don't understand why people don't like Sandal. He is easier to beat than certain OTK and Mill decks, and he's no less interactive than most of them are. He is the only ******** deck that can be beaten by events alone.

Dhamaria is no longer playable, but she was already sucking quite a bit.

Those are the three main decks that this patch nerfs, I think. I don't see why it was so urgent to nerf them, as they were all quite mediocre.

ZergRusher
02-18-2014, 07:46 PM
To all the people who are disappointed with this change, where were you in the countless threads dealing with this question ? I remember being quite alone when defending such concepts as epic recycling. Im sure some of you did (and I remember some of your posts about it jkkk) but we are definitly a huge minority.

If you had talk before, maybe we wont be here today.

i rly think you are in minority. Even among top players there are a lot who thinks this should be done.

Anyway, this is how you do it in a civilized manner:
1. releasing patch notes indicating a problem and displaying your solution
2. discussion, testing & exchange of ideas
3. Announcement of the patch and the date of implementation
4. implementation of the patch.

And this is how you did:
1. Community was whining about an unintended mechanism
2. You admitted a problem but said that you won't implement a change b4 BS2
3. BOOM! - out of nowhere you implemented a patch, after we submitted our decks for the BtJ Tournament

just to clear: i welcome this change, it's a correct one but i would also note that i dont think that you've done some testing and i'm afraid that you the meta will shift to Mill decks vs Kelthors vs the rest.

ElkazFATE
02-18-2014, 08:09 PM
I dont understand why only one unique creature in deck, one fortune, and one spell. There is any sence of this? What about time of need? Who will play shi-no-shi now? Who will play 3 magic school champs? Look at mtg legendary rulez and learn from them.

-1

RIP singularity abuse decks:)

+1

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 08:23 PM
It won't for Open,

So they nerf Necro even further. The faction barely sees play on competitive lvl, yet we need to nerf them even more.



but they said they had plans for Necro in the following expansion, because they know how hard/bad it is going for us when get to go 1st.

Going first is no a problem for Necro. Before the series of nerfes Necro did well going first (Rancord Seria for example). Necro is supposed to be specialists of game of attrition. But to play such a game you need to have a reward for surviving early/midgame. There used to be such rewards (Banshee + recursion fortunes + Atropos), but now Necro has nothing: every other faction is better in dragging game to the late stage and every other faction has better rewards for doing so. This is the main Necro problem and it is being 'adressed' by nerfing Atropos.


Problem with nerfing singularity is it will restrict cards creation. Uniques are designed to be a really strong card that can be used only once. Even if i really love necro, i know atropos's recursion was something bad. I think that's the reason why necro is so bad presently: cause create a good card in a deck that can play it again and again is pretty hard to balance.

Before the Atropos' nerf Necro needed a serious buff. Instead of doing it they nerfed Necro even more. I just dont feel it is right.

scattededash
02-18-2014, 08:28 PM
I'm speechless. It's just a loud s....w you to many players how enjoyed these types of decks. These decks were by no mean overpowered and each one of them has some serious weaknesses and terrible machups. I understand that unique recursion makes it difficult to introduce new unique cards without a risk of them being abused, but that type of change should be either less radical or coincided with an introduction of some new tools to make the idea of recursion a viable option from competitive point of view. Beacuse now we are left with less fun decks to play.

Freyjan
02-18-2014, 08:28 PM
I dont understand why only one unique creature in deck, one fortune, and one spell....

Who will play shi-no-shi now? Who will play 3 magic school champs?


As for your first point, I think you are misinterpreting what is being said...or I'm misinterpreting what you are saying. You aren't limited to only 1 unique creature, 1 unique spell, and 1 unique fortune per deck. Uniques will still act as they did before only with a new banishment clause.

Also, Shi-No-Shi isn't affected in any way. And heroes with 3 magic schools don't really get hit differently than those with 2, unless you are reading what they wrote incorrectly as I speculated above. All that really changes is the elimination of unique-recycling and it actually will make regular dispel effects more useful since you don't have to worry about that Might of Nature coming back.

ElkazFATE
02-18-2014, 08:41 PM
@Freyjan

,,You can only have one copy of each card with the Unique subtype in your deck.''

Yea, you are right. Thank god i thought that devs did fail. Sorry;p

So its +1 for killing abuse some cards. :)

jkk89
02-18-2014, 08:45 PM
All that really changes is the elimination of unique-recycling and it actually will make regular dispel effects more useful since you don't have to worry about that Might of Nature coming back.

Thats another issue. What about price of the void? Isn't the drawback (pay spell cost in life) unbalanced now??

malkorion
02-18-2014, 08:48 PM
Thats another issue. What about price of the void? Isn't the drawback (pay spell cost in life) unbalanced now??

The Price of the Void is a terrible card anyways. Nobody uses that card to counter stall decks, because it's so useless. The opponent just discards Cosmic Singularity, rinse, and repeat.

kiaryp
02-18-2014, 08:52 PM
I'm now convinced that you're a troll. all you do is whine about aggro decks being supposedly weak, when in reality aggro decks are playable and even really really strong.


Price of the void banishes cards btw.

GenericManGuy
02-18-2014, 08:52 PM
So they nerf Necro even further. The faction barely sees play on competitive lvl, yet we need to nerf them even more.



Going first is no a problem for Necro. Before the series of nerfes Necro did well going first (Rancord Seria for example). Necro is supposed to be specialists of game of attrition. But to play such a game you need to have a reward for surviving early/midgame. There used to be such rewards (Banshee + recursion fortunes + Atropos), but now Necro has nothing: every other faction is better in dragging game to the late stage and every other faction has better rewards for doing so. This is the main Necro problem and it is being 'adressed' by nerfing Atropos.



Before the Atropos' nerf Necro needed a serious buff. Instead of doing it they nerfed Necro even more. I just dont feel it is right.

Necro as a whole wasn't nerfed.

Only Malik and fortune decks were nerfed. Fortune decks were already weak and unpopular.

Now Malik has been brought to par with most other Necro heroes. This is a good thing. Now the faction can be buffed, without Malik being made OP. In the past, Necro was denied buffs, all because of Malik.

mescal97427
02-18-2014, 08:54 PM
I agree with St0rmSt4r, Zerg rusher, jkkk89 and others... Change the meta, ok (as Zerg rusher said it, your method is pretty strange) but some players are actualy playing Beat the Jack tournament. Thanks to take care about actual events when you want to patch the game... (Uraxor will start to be tired i think)

scattededash
02-18-2014, 08:54 PM
All that really changes is the elimination of unique-recycling and it actually will make regular dispel effects more useful since you don't have to worry about that Might of Nature coming back.

I think it added more depth to the game. There were two types of dispels, banishing and discarding. Now the banishing ones are less needed.

Fahrenheit1407
02-18-2014, 08:54 PM
The Price of the Void is a terrible card anyways. Nobody uses that card to counter stall decks, because it's so useless. The opponent just discards Cosmic Singularity, rinse, and repeat.

Not sure if I understood you correctly, but you can't simply discard singularity to get something back if Price of the Void is used. It banishes the card.

kiaryp
02-18-2014, 08:58 PM
I think it added more depth to the game. There were two types of dispels, banishing and discarding. Now the banishing ones are less needed.

So what you're actually saying is that it removed depth from the game, because it made one effect completely useless when it comes to Unique cards. It's a huge buff to all dispells and I think it may even set a dangerous precedent as it may encourage developers to make even stronger Unique's now that they're 1-use only.

scattededash
02-18-2014, 09:05 PM
So what you're actually saying is that it removed depth from the game, because it made one effect completely useless when it comes to Unique cards. It's a huge buff to all dispells and I think it may even set a dangerous precedent as it may encourage developers to make even stronger Unique's now that they're 1-use only.

I'm on Kinetic_42 side here. Unique recycling needed some tweeking, but not with a sledgehammer.

jkk89
02-18-2014, 09:08 PM
The Price of the Void is a terrible card anyways. Nobody uses that card to counter stall decks, because it's so useless. The opponent just discards Cosmic Singularity, rinse, and repeat.

Well I was using that card in almost every of my decks and that got me to 1642 elo at some point, but clearly U know better. Price of the void WAS the great card and now is terrible. There is a balance issue. But devs are shortsighted.

GMChascal
02-18-2014, 09:09 PM
While I agree that the same unique card shouldn't be played several time in a match, I wish they would consider how a change like that will affect the current meta :

"Spellthor isn't popular enough, let's eliminate some of his opposition..."

jkk89
02-18-2014, 09:14 PM
"Spellthor isn't popular enough, let's eliminate some of his opposition..."


Yep. Kelthor moving from tier 1 to GOD tier will be the outcome of the changes, but who cares, right?

scattededash
02-18-2014, 09:15 PM
Well I was using that card in almost every of my decks and that got me to 1642 elo at some point, but clearly U know better. Price of the void WAS the great card and now is terrible. There is a balance issue. But devs are shortsighted.

Was that card specifically designed to remove SotS and MotN and provide every deck with a safe removal, hence it's attrocious requirements and cost. Now it makes no sense. By the way I would like to thank you for Jkkk's Dhamiria. I spent countless hours playing your deck and had a full blast. I even tweeked her to be able to beat Dark Gazal with singularity cosmic tower/garden combo. She wil be missed.

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 09:25 PM
Necro as a whole wasn't nerfed.

Only Malik and fortune decks were nerfed. Fortune decks were already weak and unpopular.

Now Malik has been brought to par with most other Necro heroes. This is a good thing. Now the faction can be buffed, without Malik being made OP. In the past, Necro was denied buffs, all because of Malik.

Sure. It's because of Adar Malik Necro has no reliable creature control fortune. And because of Adar Malik they nerfed Banshee.

Look: there are many ways to give buff for Necro without buffing Adar. There are many ways to nerf Adar without nerfing Seria, Fleshbane and Siham. Yet we see another nerf for all the faction heroes.

You say Adar is on par? Maybe. But Adar was the only Necro hero who has seen competitive play on regular basis. Now Necro has no such a hero. Do you think it is a good thing?

ElkazFATE
02-18-2014, 09:35 PM
Well I was using that card in almost every of my decks and that got me to 1642 elo at some point, but clearly U know better. Price of the void WAS the great card and now is terrible. There is a balance issue. But devs are shortsighted.

Alkazar got 1671 without PotV. Fix your noob deck:)

Mythrit
02-18-2014, 09:37 PM
Sure. It's because of Adar Malik Necro has no reliable creature control fortune. And because of Adar Malik they nerfed Banshee.



i think they nerf Banshee because of Fleshbane

jkk89
02-18-2014, 09:55 PM
Alkazar got 1671 without PotV. Fix your noob deck:)

Was different meta back then. And Allyofjustice86 is on 1650 right now and he plays price of the void even in Sandalock (he uses my Dhamiria also among other heroes)

jkk89
02-18-2014, 09:58 PM
i think they nerf Banshee because of Fleshbane

Nope. They nerfed banshee because it "feels like a spell".

^ that is the devs approach on most things in this game. Same happening right now. They don't have the metagame in mind (thou the CMs are using the word alot being on 1000 elos).

Mythrit
02-18-2014, 10:03 PM
Nope. They nerfed banshee because it "feels like a spell".

^ that is the devs approach on most things in this game. Same happening right now. They don't have the metagame in mind (thou the CMs are using the word alot being on 1000 elos).

yea but fortune Flesh died after that....

VampFury
02-18-2014, 10:07 PM
@AmineM2 Can you please make another thread for Necro. I get you like Necro, but you are clogging this thread with points about one faction alone. How do you know that new expansion won't buff Necro for standard AND open formats? And I will gladly discuss you on that somewhere else.


As for the topic I don't have strong feelings for or against it. Only thing I support is what ZergRusher and some others pointed out - time and manner of implementation of change.

XenofeX0
02-18-2014, 10:15 PM
This will turn DOC more closer to Hearthstone isn't it?


You guys already have Base Crap 2, let an open format be open.


Unneeded nerf, welcome to duels of kelthors


bye bye, gg

AmineM2
02-18-2014, 10:18 PM
@AmineM2 Can you please make another thread for Necro. I get you like Necro, but you are clogging this thread with points about one faction alone.

I have to refuse.

This change affects Necro and I discuss this aspect of the game. It is on topic.


I get you like Necro, but you are clogging this thread with points about one faction alone. How do you know that new expansion won't buff Necro for standard AND open formats?

Of course I don't know what will happen with the new expansion. But I know what happened with the nerf we are talking about: the devs nerfed Necro significantly which I find harmful for the balance of the game.

Uraxor
02-18-2014, 10:41 PM
/depressed
/signing off

malkorion
02-18-2014, 11:34 PM
Ugh. I had to read my posts again. Ok, so The Price of the Void banishes cards. I still think the requirements are ridiculous. It should have been either three magic or three destiny (I'm sure you can make that sort of card where you have the option) and I really don't see how running only one copy would help my aggro decks.

I also checked jkkk89's decks on MMDoCking (not sure if that is any objective measure)
Decks posted were:

Gate Garant (playing this deck is a gamble, but it puts so much pressure on your opponent, you'll almost always win)
Cassandra (v1.0)
Alia (most aggro has nothing against Mass Rage)
Sandalphon
Dhamiria
Cassandra (v1.1)

4-5 of these decks feature resource denial and lock mechanics. It's easy to win against aggro when your spells/fortunes are so oppressive that the aggro player doesn't stand a chance. And when am I supposed to use The Price of the Void? After you played Prison on me? When you played Altar of Shadows? I'm pretty sure that you're going to do everything you can to avoid a situation like that.

And what is this hatred towards Kelthor? I used to play against him a lot, of course I hated him then, but ever since I made a deck with him, I find even the mirror matches more enjoyable. It really seems to me that this game fosters hatred towards aggro strategies, because people think it requires no thinking. Just because you're playing a stall deck, doesn't mean you're any better than the rest of the players.

Granted, I haven't had the chance to play Hakeem, Sandalphon lock, Cass lock, Dark Gazal, Alia rage (I don't have the cards), but I guess it's pointless now. They are patching the unique spells.

And no, I'm not trolling, I'm just saying what's on my mind. Your 1600 ELO means nothing to me, since we're obviously playing this game for different reasons.

Xampiz
02-18-2014, 11:38 PM
Warning - strong language.

http://s25.postimg.org/fzvlxoze7/yours_truly.jpg

I feel there is nothing to more add, especially regarding dev - players communication channels and listening to us ...?

tyvm...

/depressed
/signing off

Come on Devs, can you at least wait the tournament end?

cristiz0rlike
02-18-2014, 11:40 PM
I hope i dont waste my wc on a hakeem mill deck..i see that it's not affecting him the next change

jkk89
02-18-2014, 11:47 PM
Ugh. I had to read my posts again. Ok, so The Price of the Void banishes cards. I still think the requirements are ridiculous. It should have been either three magic or three destiny (I'm sure you can make that sort of card where you have the option) and I really don't see how running only one copy would help my aggro decks.

I also checked jkkk89's decks on MMDoCking (not sure if that is any objective measure)
Decks posted were:

Gate Garant (playing this deck is a gamble, but it puts so much pressure on your opponent, you'll almost always win)
Cassandra (v1.0)
Alia (most aggro has nothing against Mass Rage)
Sandalphon
Dhamiria
Cassandra (v1.1)

4-5 of these decks feature resource denial and lock mechanics. It's easy to win against aggro when your spells/fortunes are so oppressive that the aggro player doesn't stand a chance. And when am I supposed to use The Price of the Void? After you played Prison on me? When you played Altar of Shadows? I'm pretty sure that you're going to do everything you can to avoid a situation like that.

And what is this hatred towards Kelthor? I used to play against him a lot, of course I hated him then, but ever since I made a deck with him, I find even the mirror matches more enjoyable. It really seems to me that this game fosters hatred towards aggro strategies, because people think it requires no thinking. Just because you're playing a stall deck, doesn't mean you're any better than the rest of the players.

Granted, I haven't had the chance to play Hakeem, Sandalphon lock, Cass lock, Dark Gazal, Alia rage (I don't have the cards), but I guess it's pointless now. They are patching the unique spells.

And no, I'm not trolling, I'm just saying what's on my mind. Your 1600 ELO means nothing to me, since we're obviously playing this game for different reasons.

I am no a stall deck player. I play everything which seems either viable to me or is considered as viable by the players. To be competitive in this game I need to know how to play and play against any kind of the deck i may encounter. Decks I've posted on mmdocking are just small sample of decks that I play.

malkorion
02-19-2014, 12:00 AM
I am no a stall deck player. I play everything which seems either viable to me or is considered as viable by the players. To be competitive in this game I need to know how to play and play against any kind of the deck i may encounter. Decks I've posted on mmdocking are just small sample of decks that I play.

Ok. Whatever, I didn't want to pick a bone with you, but all these arguments against the change sound so one-sided. Veterans are angry because the meta changes, and new players don't care as long as they can play the game without getting Throned - Prisoned - Wastelanded. You get my drift.

I just don't think that aggro decks are capable of consistent T1 wins. Even if it's Kelthor, because that deck has no answers against spells / fortunes by default. And switching decks in the middle of an unsanctioned tournament is a bigger mind game than anything I've ever seen in any competitive card game.

jkk89
02-19-2014, 12:16 AM
I just don't think that aggro decks are capable of consistent T1 wins. Even if it's Kelthor.

I wont agree. I can make consistent T1 with Kelthor, Gate Garant, Ishuma. At least this are the rush decks I've tried in last couple of months. If that is not enough I can say that Allyofjusticy86, occuping 2nd place on the ladder right now is playing mainly Kelthor. U may want to check the hero submissions for the beat the jack - its mostly Kelthors picked by the best players in game.

As a side note: Price of the void is (or maybe was, we will see) a great card for sideboarding. And if metagame evolves OR if U expect to encounter control opponent U may just safely squueze 2 price of the voids (or famous last blows) in Kelthor.

Dipl0mate
02-19-2014, 12:37 AM
Well to be honest im not strongly opposed to this kind of change, and for the future of DoC it is probably a good thing like others said. But saying it kills the game right now is just wrong. Unique recursion gave life to tons of interesting builds. This mechanic is amazing and people have created strong decks using it. I could admit that Sandal lock can be frustrating / is not the most interesting thing since it is so known now. But this is just a small part in everything that has been made with unique recursion.

Zerawyth
02-19-2014, 01:14 AM
1. I do not understand how an entire player base can complain about a mechanic and then complain when the developers do something to fix said mechanic.

2. I do not understand how the developers are supposed to implement any changes when every time they do there is an immense amount of backlash.

3. I do not understand how this game is supposed to go forward or have a future if people are going to leave if changes aren't made and they are also going to leave if changes are made.

4. I do not understand how being able to play UNIQUE creatures / spells / fortunes once is somehow wrong or counter-intuitive. They're UNIQUE.

5. I truly do not understand why people have to be so negative no matter what the Developers @ Ubi try to do. So much hate when all they are trying to do is listen and respond.


Thank you, Devs, for doing what the Community has asked you to do. I am sorry and apologize that we, as a Community, are a bunch of spoiled, whiny brats.

[Just a disclaimer - I'm a 1501+ ELO player that has no problem with Sandal-Lock, Alia Rage or any other Unique Recycling. HOWEVER, I have noticed a huge amount of outcry from the Community (even tho' I personally don't care one way or another) and would have reacted similarly if I were a Dev @ Ubi.]

[Another disclaimer - I do agree that they should wait 'til the Beat the Jack Tournament is over. However, in MTG, there have been HUGE events, like Worlds (200k+ prize pool), that have taken place right after major changes were made to bans / formats / etc. Being able to adapt in other Card Games is one of several things that makes a great player.]

kiaryp
02-19-2014, 01:17 AM
Ok. Whatever, I didn't want to pick a bone with you, but all these arguments against the change sound so one-sided. Veterans are angry because the meta changes, and new players don't care as long as they can play the game without getting Throned - Prisoned - Wastelanded. You get my drift.

I just don't think that aggro decks are capable of consistent T1 wins. Even if it's Kelthor, because that deck has no answers against spells / fortunes by default. And switching decks in the middle of an unsanctioned tournament is a bigger mind game than anything I've ever seen in any competitive card game.

Even though it has no answers to fortunes/spells (which isn't completely true,) it's still as T1 as it gets. In open after this change Kelthor is going to have no bad match ups at all (maybe Gazal.) Right now he has some slightly unfavored match-ups but is still basically tied for the best hero in the meta with Fortune Cassandra, which btw is also a very aggressive deck. So when you say "i wish aggro decks could get T1," you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Aggro decks are the strongest right now if you consider Cass an aggro deck, which it is.

ElkazFATE
02-19-2014, 01:35 AM
Uraxor flame mode on. Devs should down on their knees and beg him for mercy^^

@JKKK

Be competetive in casual game?

npavcec
02-19-2014, 01:50 AM
I 100% support this. Finally some common sense in the logic/mechanic of the game.

jkk89
02-19-2014, 02:44 AM
Uraxor flame mode on. Devs should down on their knees and beg him for mercy^^

@JKKK

Be competetive in casual game?


Ye well it wasnt casual for me, but if is heading that way then I will stop to play. I dont care what is Your incencitive to play but I am a tournament player and always will be.

NoHeal4u
02-19-2014, 04:20 AM
Great change.

Necronmk
02-19-2014, 04:46 AM
Now that was uncalled for. I think a simple change to singularity would have sufficed. Now for some predictions:
-Kelthor just got better as some of his counters were hit heavy by the nerf bat, imo this is very bad as we already see an abundance of Kelthors. Zardoc gets the short end of the deal though and i'm gonna guess he's not gonna see much play if any.
-sanctuary generally benefits from the change as almost all of sanctuary needs no recursion
-necro hmmm, while a huge nerf to regular malik, the mass rage version wont suffer as badly (shantiri ruins Armageddon recursion still works wonders) it will definitely need some changes but overall i still think it will be a tier 1 deck (the rage version, finished second on jp 3 days ago with it), but this will tilt the spotlight to ariana whose dispells just got a buff, and she can still ''recur'' atropos by town portaling him, while underrated as she is now I'm guessing she will see a lot of play once this goes live. As for the fortunes, while still decent no rest for the wicked, ariana's lair, altar of eternal servitude, graveyard are all affected by it, now I don't know about eternal battlefield whether it will cycle atropos back in but i'm really hoping it does.
-While cassandra likes not being ff-ed more than once, im guessing she'll miss her occasional second devotion/prison/altar. Sandallock is dead and im not the one to mourn its death, although it was not as much of a big deal once people started including cosmic balances, and sandy rush doesnt mind it at all but like cassandra he will miss his occassional multiple wombo combos. This may provide the room for a stable kieran deck with his buffed dispells. Angel of mercy got worse and im guessing it wont see play at all. Alia rage unlike malik rage will lose much of its stability as LoT can be dealt with much easily now. Alia creatures will be decent but will have to switch to healing instead of dmg spells in base set 2.
-Inferno will lose it's strongest deck, but fear not as base set 2 will be the rise of kal azaar rage, who will be devastating in the creature meta that will follow. I dare not say anything more because i havent played inferno much/
-and last we have academy, the rise of the mills. As most players will stop running singularities all together, mills will be effective. I expect to see a lot of Hakeem in the following days, Asalah mills will outshine them though in my opinion which might be biased by my love for this hero. Dark gazal will be happy to banish that pesky might of nature for 1 mana instead of 6.
-events: Rise of the nethermancer will be forgotten im guessing which will benefit akane and gazal, Notrm got a very slight nerf but it will still be seen all over the place.

Now these are my personal opinions and a lot of guesswork but we'll have to see. Overall while unique recursion needed some working on, i dont think this is the right way to do it, some factions should have ways to cycle uniques.

Strandly
02-19-2014, 06:09 AM
First time I'm seeing this. Terrible overkill change. This is how Ubisoft rolls.

guest-0RCtE5t1
02-19-2014, 06:14 AM
Thank you devs. The unique recursion is the main reason I chose not to enter the btj tournament.

Also it was getting out of hand...deck building was starting to revolve around how you could fit in singularitys with your uniques and then being hailed as a t1 deck for how broken it was.

I can't tell you the amount of times I've fought a cass who used imperial evotion 3+ times in a game effctively giving them 35+ hp.

Thank you again for this change

DoubleDeck
02-19-2014, 06:44 AM
I just wanna vibe here, is there really any point doing this to uniques in BS2?
I mean most of the OP unique cards are now out: Forbidden Flame, Prison, most unique creatures,etc....

blades026
02-19-2014, 06:54 AM
I personally think this could have all been fixed simply by making cosmic singularity a unique card. Thus only one recycle (per person) would happen per game, which wouldnt completely destroy decks such as sandal-lock/the singularity recycle decks, just make them not as strong which i believe would have been the entire goal in the first place....

Andaliel
02-19-2014, 08:01 AM
As someone who plays (tries to play) both decks with and without uniques recursion, i think i'm more in favor of this change. As some of the others pointed out, the way and timing of making it is a tad iffy, though.

raca28
02-19-2014, 08:30 AM
I don't think this is a big change over all, but it's good to see that the developers did what the people asked for.(now please fix this forum, make advertisments, more turnaments, more alternate art and maybe some card cover, skins etc, fix elo drop, and some other things i probably missed there is a lot)

A few decks will take a hit from this but others will come in their place so whatever, and singularity/Night of the rising moon is still there so you can stall for 50 turns if you want and win by making your opponents fall asleep .

I don't see kelthor being op in the new meta(or in the current meta), the only reason so many people play it is because it's cheap to make, a fix for this would be to make other decks cheaper to make as well or remove road to Paris deck from shop, also there are many decks that have a big advantage over kelthor that don't spam uniques.

I also don't understand why are the top players whining about this, you already have all the cards in the game and you can make anything you want so this does not effect you at all, the only ones hat will suffer are newish players that made their fist deck with unique spam.

As for the beat the jack I'm sure there is a solution for it as well, maybe the devs could let you play it out with unique recicling on old client or something like that.

Kruuush
02-19-2014, 08:31 AM
Sry, but people who say that this is a great change and that it will solve all Problems, have no plan on how to Balance a Meta in a Card game...They build there decks playing Cards with nice Pictures rather than reading the text below! And i promise you they will be the same, which cry, that Stronghold creatures are too big and Sanctuary creatures have too good abilites, as soon as this goes live.

Sure, the uniques mechanic needs a change but not like that.

The only reason why a deck like dhamira exists is, because of the power of the rush decks...Itīs the only way to control the board without getting too much card disadvantage and running out of gas! And thatīs the only way a control deck can work.
So what this change does is, to kill every control based deck, which is not playing academy, making haven as useless as necro, and letting the decks, why the others where builded, untouched.
And that will give us a much more one sided boring game as it is right now!

They can change, the uniques, the way they want it to be, but not without keeping an eye on the current Meta and at least change a few normal cards, to build new decks....

ElkazFATE
02-19-2014, 10:28 AM
Who said that this change will make this game perfect? Its good change because abuse of singularity make this game boring. The main problem of this game is balancing patches. We need more, and they should change more than 2-3 cards. Forgotten cards should get buff, must have card should be nerfed. This is only way to make this game balanced.

Look at heartstone:

http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/12383909/hearthstones-card-balance-philosophy-17-01-2014

If we have similar ppl in doc this game would be much better.

Aegon82
02-19-2014, 10:39 AM
Thanks!!
At last a good change, based on what the players wanted!!

But now I'm not sure it was needed, as singularity won't be available in "standard", and I think legacy should be the place for insane decks, like it is in mtg.
Although making this change opens up space for new unique cards, as powerfull as you want them to be, even necro ones without fear of making Adar malik OP.

Uraxor
02-19-2014, 10:39 AM
Obviously, my first post was somewhat overreacted.

However at the same time, they could not choose worse timing & manner of introducing the change to community.
Can't help it .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q
^also applies to this **** Captcha..

All that aside, I stand by this change; as I stated in another thread, it's needed and ultimately will help the game.
We experienced similar changes before.

After all, I'm now little bit curious to see, how the BtJ Top8 will handle this and what new decks will come up with. There we'll have a chance to see Top players proving they belong to the top by adjusting on the run. We'll also see if the grim future some of you foreshadow is accurate - or not.

Me personally, I've already few ideas of decks that could arise, with Sandalock gone .... ^^

L0rnCyador
02-19-2014, 12:40 PM
People are whining about Kelthor being OP with this Change? I mean, really?

With or without this Nerf, any Competitive Deck can beat Kelthor.

If anything, this makes Academy Mill, the Strongest in the Meta. Since, it doesn't affect them in the slightest.

Only 1 Card counters Milling (Cosmic Singularity), and even that is debatable. Since that Card also helps them Recur their Stalls, their OP Weenies, their Mill Cards and their Boardwipes.

hectoring
02-19-2014, 12:49 PM
A new promotional banner for after the change:
http://i.imgur.com/PaBDdi8.jpg

Revalon
02-19-2014, 01:12 PM
To all who think it will only be Kelthor now: Don't forget that decks will surely arise that can beat Kelthor, but just could not survive in an environment with unique recursion like Prison Lock.

We just can't say what will happen, we will have to see.

I just hope that they will wait until BtJ group phase ends. Uraxor did a great job with this tournament, and I really hope that they won't destroy it by making some decks useless in middle of the tournament. And as Uraxor said, I'm excited to see how the top 8 will adapt to this change.

Finally, I'd liked to see only Singularity getting the "non-unique" rule on it, especially since it hurts Necro, which I don't like. Now, the next expansion needs something really good for Necro to finally become strong.

Harmbringer
02-19-2014, 01:26 PM
From my point of view:
Kelthor will dominate, because itīs an easy to play hero, with an easy to play deck and easy to play combos. Everyone can play it. Most of the people will play it.
ALSO if you can play well, this also helps the deck to become even more deadly. But itīs not needed in the most cases.
Itīs just easy to regain/maintain board Control, itīs easy to deal plenty of damage and also burst pretty hard!

Sure other decks will have a better chance in the meta now (Ishuma also benefits from the Change), I currently do not see many decks as strong as Kelthor.
I doīnot say that Kelthor is not beatable, but the facts explained in the first sentences describes the issue in this meta.



Beside this:

Iīm not ok with the ninja change and also with the (fmpov) missing nerf of Kelthor.

BUT Iīm 100% behind the restriction of Uniques!

luorax
02-19-2014, 01:47 PM
It doesn't really affect Cassandra either. And it helps Crag too.

I don't like how it's going to help mill too, but oh well...

So please stop this mindless 'Kelthor is gonna be Tier -1' bs - at least out of all these decks I mentioned, this one plays with balls, not like the 'lemme keep on taking away most of your resources' or the 'forget about blocking. EVER' decks.

I'm definitely interested to see what things will look like when people don't have to worry about Sandalpoop lock or FF spam.

M0rw47h
02-19-2014, 02:11 PM
Change itself is good, but if we look on larger picture - it's horrible.
Why? Because its nerf to counter decks against the most played and the most boring FOTM deck, which is Kelthor. Buffing the most popular deck is the worst idea ever, even worse than Nergal nerf. It could be good with new expanssion, where we got new cards, so meta wouldn't be 60% Kelthor : 40% sth else.

Was planning to start polish league this week... but... with this change i don't see reason to do so.
Tournament full of Kelthors isn't worth hosting.

Portios86
02-19-2014, 02:11 PM
Come on...I have made and posted on many threads against this mechanic but, come on, there were better ways to balance it.

Anyway, Im happy with the change, and I saw it coming by miles.

I think you guys are overreacting, this will shift the meta but its not going to be that bad. Most decks will still be playable, just put more armaggedons and defensive creatures or play other stall decks (mill and ignatius, for example). This finally makes dispel good and price of the void bad (thats how it should be).

I see this as a nerf to:

Necro (wich should be buffed ASAP, maybe in the next expansion) and thats why it should be a singularity rework instead of a unique rule change.
Cass fortune singularity version (not the most popular but probaly the best, it is even harder to play).
Some dhamiria decks (she is still good, just make a new deck, shes so flexible...).
Alia troll mass rage deck (not sad for her) just play the good old T2 Alia aggro deck.
sandalock (will be just unplayable). Just play sandal aggro, cass rushlock or other stall deck.

I see the change as a buff to:

Mill. This is fine, mill is a lot more interesting and hard to play, with mill you make a lot of decissions and it has some fair counters.
kelthor?? (maybe, less stall decks, but who knows....maybe it will be the same number of stall players, just less variety).
Ishuma. Not infinite forbbiden flames?? really? hell! Finally...
cass rushlock/downrush (one FF, not 4...).
Generic creature based decks.
PRIMAL MAGIC: Fianlly this school will be useful again with common dispels instead of price of the void.

Looking at my list, it seems that itīs a very good change. Deck variety is nerfed and thats bad, but lets be honest here...deck variety doesnīt mean "put singularities and broken unique spells and then be creative with whatever else youīre gonna play".

About keltroll, I mean, kelthor... Who knows...maybe its time to nerf him a bit, or maybe we will find some decent counters not abusing singularity. I play hakeem mill a lot and crusher+wartent is autowin for them but, when it isnt that combo, im usually quite fine against him. Ignatius fortune is an expensive deck but it could work well vs kelthor, not sure thoug. Canīt think on many counters to kelthor, honestly, hes just too good at everything...

Aegon82
02-19-2014, 02:28 PM
I don't know where all this whining come from...

Meta full of Kelthor?
Well, in "standard", we won't have vulture rider, Pao, lightning strike, SotL or forbiden flame, so Kelthor will be just another creature deck.

In "legacy"? Well, as Portio,has said, this change hurts sandalock (at last, removed from existence), alia mass rage (maybe it can be adjusted... 4 armageddon, 1 ff and some shields... May be enough), Dham last version (maybe time for arbiter version again), cass fortune (but there are other not-that-strong versions) and Malik (need something else to resurrect besides spitter and banshee).

So I don't see that much of a change... Meta will adapt to it.

malkorion
02-19-2014, 03:14 PM
I don't know where all this whining come from...

Meta full of Kelthor?
Well, in "standard", we won't have vulture rider, Pao, lightning strike, SotL or forbiden flame, so Kelthor will be just another creature deck.

In "legacy"? Well, as Portio,has said, this change hurts sandalock (at last, removed from existence), alia mass rage (maybe it can be adjusted... 4 armageddon, 1 ff and some shields... May be enough), Dham last version (maybe time for arbiter version again), cass fortune (but there are other not-that-strong versions) and Malik (need something else to resurrect besides spitter and banshee).

So I don't see that much of a change... Meta will adapt to it.

Not to mention the fact that Kelthor is not in standard.

jkk89
02-19-2014, 03:44 PM
Not to mention the fact that Kelthor is not in standard.

Obviously, we are not talking about standard. For upcoming month THE actual meta will be 60% Kelthor oriented.

Aegon82
02-19-2014, 03:46 PM
Not to mention the fact that Kelthor is not in standard.

Ooops, my bad, I was sure it was in bs2... :confused:

ElkazFATE
02-19-2014, 04:48 PM
I like 60% kelthor. Easy wins with pillage cassandra and zardoc.

malkorion
02-19-2014, 06:47 PM
I think that the only thing that annoys me about the unique rules change is that I will never get to experience the Prison recycling. Ever.

npavcec
02-19-2014, 08:15 PM
Who said that this change will make this game perfect? Its good change because abuse of singularity make this game boring. The main problem of this game is balancing patches. We need more, and they should change more than 2-3 cards. Forgotten cards should get buff, must have card should be nerfed. This is only way to make this game balanced.

Very good point. Making a game better by fine tuning each card after a while would/should not be a problem.

luorax
02-19-2014, 09:02 PM
I think that the only thing that annoys me about the unique rules change is that I will never get to experience the Prison recycling. Ever.

Don't tell me you've never played against someone who went AFK mid game.

Strandly
02-19-2014, 09:06 PM
I think that the only thing that annoys me about the unique rules change is that I will never get to experience the Prison recycling. Ever.

That wasn't even the worst imo, you could easily play cards that broke up the combo. Trying to play a creature deck and getting Forbidden Flamed 5 times a game, on the other hand, was absolutely stupid. There is almost nothing you can do to not be dominated by that.

sir_z
02-19-2014, 09:06 PM
A deck exists somewhere that will beat Kelthor reliably, the meta will only be all Kelthors until someone finds that deck, and with decks removed from the meta, there's an opening for that deck to become an answer.

LORD-LYNXxx
02-19-2014, 10:00 PM
When it will works???

Revalon
02-19-2014, 10:10 PM
When it will works???


We hope to apply it into the live version of the game in the next few days and will keep you updated on the specific ETA.

And I hope that it will take some time until it's implemented, so Beat the Jack group stage won't be affected.

Alamand
02-19-2014, 10:26 PM
This is new, usually I'm feeling bad for the community because of how ****ty ubi is, now I'm feeling bad for ubi because of how ****ty the community is. Everyone knew this change, or another very similar to it, was coming, the community was even begging ubi to implement this exact fix for months with very few people speaking out against it.

And no, adding non-unique to cosmic singularity wouldn't have been a solution, it would have been a band-aid, the problem would have just come up again in a later expansion. The developers have stated before that uniques were made so powerful they were only ever meant to be played once so there was no point half-assing the solution at this point.

As far as Kelthor, I hope there's a lot more of him. Half my decks crush Kelthor but didn't stand a chance against Sandalock, and now with unique recycling gone I can switch some cards and events around to make them even better against Kelthor and rush decks.

cristiz0rlike
02-19-2014, 10:47 PM
so what i read so far...does it worth to spend my wc on a hakeem mill deck? to win some swisses earn some gold in jp...till bs2 comes...i have already 4 enthralls received in packs...and i can build a bs2 hakeem... or akane...i have almost all cards for a bs2 akane..i was going to spend 30 wc on 2 forked l. but i had a feeling that they will remove this card...

malkorion
02-19-2014, 11:22 PM
Don't tell me you've never played against someone who went AFK mid game.

I meant that with this patch I will never be able to play Sandallock myself, since the whole engine will be gone. Sandalphon lock is one of the stupidest matchups, Milling is second.

GenericManGuy
02-20-2014, 02:14 AM
most games involving recursion are long and stupid.

M0rw47h
02-20-2014, 09:43 AM
most games involving recursion are long and stupid.

Long and interesting...

malkorion
02-20-2014, 10:26 AM
Long and interesting...

The thing about recursion is that it gives you huge card advantage, and not every deck is capable of creating CA. So it's like: the game goes on, even though we clearly know who the winner is.

M0rw47h
02-20-2014, 01:23 PM
The thing about recursion is that it gives you huge card advantage, and not every deck is capable of creating CA. So it's like: the game goes on, even though we clearly know who the winner is.

Thats the point... late game oriented decks should win late game...

malkorion
02-20-2014, 04:25 PM
On the other hand, shouldn't they just ban Cosmic Singularity? That's at the heart of Prison recycling, FF spam, and every other broken shenanigan that stall decks do.

M0rw47h
02-20-2014, 04:51 PM
On the other hand, shouldn't they just ban Cosmic Singularity? That's at the heart of Prison recycling, FF spam, and every other broken shenanigan that stall decks do.

I don't think FF spam was broken.

Papa_Nurgle
02-20-2014, 05:19 PM
Patching with the explicit intent of shifting the meta in the middle of a big organized tournament is pretty ****ish. I would be pissed if I was playing a unique recycling based deck that suddenly ceased to be viable halfway through an event and I would hope devs have the good sense to wait until BtJ is finished to apply the patch.

That aside, I think that shutting down unique recycling is a good thing for the game in the long run. I would, however, agree that it would be more effective to do so by patching singularity to not touch uniques. It is, by itself, responsible for most of the strategies that caused the backlash resulting in this patch.
It makes more sense to be extremely restrictive on what cards can return/steal/whatever uniques, as most design so far has been, than it does to just banish uniques after use period so that nothing can ever interact with them after they're gone. I say this because there are effects other than recursion that exist or could exist that care about things being in a player's graveyard, but aren't problematic for game balance, like soul consuming wraith, scavenger ratkin and friends, and many others. Not to mention that it just feels weird to have an otherwise normal creature go somewhere other than the graveyard when it dies (do uniques actually die after this patch for effects like vulture rider and soul consuming lich?).

As far as the impact on the meta goes, I think the all kelthor all the time camp is jumping to conclusions a little bit. In the rotated format, I don't think kelthor will really work because he's missing too many key cards to be viable in that environment. For the open format, concern is a little more justified, but there are certainly decks that can beat him consistently that have room to exist now that they don't have to compete with as many locks. Whatever the case may be, time will tell.
The other meta issue that has been brought up here is the impact on necropolis. It is obviously hurt by the change because it is dependent in many cases on infinite or many atropos uses. Even when this is available, I find myself often giving up Atropos to the graveyard with Adar-Malik. It's only really manageable in terms of resources in the extreme late game, and if you've made it that far, you're probably winning regardless of infinite atropos. I think this has a much lesser impact on the one remotely popular necropolis build that exists than people make it out to.
We were promised an answer to necropolis being underpowered with BS2, but that answer seems to be that in the rotated format, necropolis just loses the least of any faction (they have the best spot removal, the only board wipe and most of their important creatures). I would even go as ar as to say that Ariana will quite possibly be the queen ***** of the rotated environment. This does not change the fact that the faction is still crippled in the open format as it stands, but I believe this patch opens the door to a better future for open format necropolis. Infinite atropos is a crutch for necropolis that forces the design team to restrain the rest of the faction. With that out of the way, it becomes possible to design much more powerful cards for necropolis without the fear inherent in design decisions made with atropos in mind.

Varlekx
02-22-2014, 08:23 AM
Yeah good work there Ubisoft.

RIP any interesting deck that is playable in the current meta
RIP JKKKs Dhamiria deck (love you for that deck bro)
RIP Adar Malik (okay Atropos spam + Paos/Banshees was brainless but still no reason to destroy the only competitive deck necro had)
RIP Sendalphon Lock. (brain afk too with the right hands but it could be easily countered)

Guess any Kelthor player will fa* on this patch notes...
Actually I loled hard at the Duell of Kelthors Banner, I guess they will introduce that with the upcoming patch.

No seriously... Don't you want to improve the Meta? It is not like its boring enough atm. Shouldn't a card game be interesting? Do you really want that the rest of us that does not play Kelthor atm swaps to it?
This patch only destroys the hard counter decks that Kelthor had (my opinion and I will stick to it.) W/o a horrible hand he will rule over any other deck now.
Ofc you can beat him easily with the right deck but this patch just buffs a already very strong deck.

Dunno we should now make a T2 tier a T1 one and a 3rd one called Kelthor Tier.

One spell to rule them all, one Tainted Orc to find them,
One Blackskull Crusher to own them all and in the Kelthor bind them.
Didnt Tolkien said something like that? :D


Oh yeah and I didnt mentioned Hakeem Deck yet.

Well maybe we get 80% Kelthor vs 20% Hakeem Mill after this well thought patch.

luorax
02-22-2014, 05:47 PM
I find it hilarious how people still think it's gonna be Kelthors everywhere, when Mill/Cassandra (just to name a few other T1 decks) are uneffected by the changes as well, and with the mindless recursion decks out of the way, new decks might arise too. Oh well... one does not simply cure tunnel vision.

ZergRusher
02-24-2014, 12:22 PM
I find it hilarious how people still think it's gonna be Kelthors everywhere, when Mill/Cassandra (just to name a few other T1 decks) are uneffected by the changes as well, and with the mindless recursion decks out of the way, new decks might arise too. Oh well... one does not simply cure tunnel vision.

It does effect Cassandra:
1. Cassa usually play with at least 1 Singularity not only to recycle uniques but also to fend off mills
2. W/o SandalLock Kelthors can play w/o Cosmic Balance and put 3-4 Arbiters in their deck which gives them an upper hand vs Cassa

Ofc the change makes Mills stronger.



btw don't you guys think that Singularity should be changed and cost 1 and require 1 destiny to be a proper counter vs mills and not become a dead card in other matches.

luorax
02-24-2014, 05:24 PM
Well yea, they tend to run a few singularities (1-2 mostly, but it's always up to the player), but it's not really part of core of the deck or anything, just the icing on the cake. Or at least I think so - but my opinion is mostly based on what I've seen while playing against Cassandra, and on stream, I still have 0 Wolf Captains after like ~70 Void Rising packs, and 16 Wildcards/WC is robbery >.>

Singularity should have been 'When this card is activated: Shuffle this card to the deck, then draw a card. When this card is sent from your deck to the Graveyard: Shuffle all cards in both Graveyards to the deck'. It should require only one Destiny, although the cost could be higher (2-3 should be fine). It'd be better in many ways:


It'd do its job properly: counter mill. Right now it's like gambling, hoping that it doesn't get milled before you could make use of it.
It wouldn't be easily abuseable.
It would be a hard counter, but getting it back to the deck could be quite costly, and then there's the chance that you draw it again. And against non-mill decks you'd always just redraw it, it would be a pain - like all the other hard counters.


But that's just my opinion - it would need some testing, of course. That's why some beta server (even a closed one) could come in handy, because looking at DoC streams it's obvious that the team members know only a small part of what a normal 1500 ELO player does.

Pjovejas
02-24-2014, 05:41 PM
I find it hilarious how people still think it's gonna be Kelthors everywhere, when Mill/Cassandra (just to name a few other T1 decks) are uneffected by the changes as well, and with the mindless recursion decks out of the way, new decks might arise too. Oh well... one does not simply cure tunnel vision.

Last time I ckecked, every decent Cassandra used at least 2 singularities. And it was very important card, because 1 Prison and 1 Imperial devotion often are not enough to survive. While at the same time Kelthor is quiet happy with a single use of FF.

luorax
02-24-2014, 05:47 PM
Yea, I knew saying 'unaffected' was a bit exaggerated, but I still do believe it won't straight up kill them, like let's say Dhamiria late game, Sandalpoop Lock or Alia rage. And then there's Mill - they are truly happy, because Singularity will see even less play, while they lose nothing.

Mryth01
02-24-2014, 05:54 PM
[...] You can only have one copy of each card with the Unique subtype in your deck. Those cards also have special rules that ensure they cannot be played more than once in a game: [...]
[...] Edit: Regarding ATROPOS - you can still town portal / bridge him back to your hand and re-use. A faction power status shouldn't be about one card imo. [...] I so dont get this change. Graveyard recycle was a way to abuse the unique system to play unique card multiple times. So you introduce a mechanic that is done to stop playing uniques multiple times. Yet there is still a way open to re-play uniques. However there is little, outside of Atropos, to abuse that way. Still this open window of opportunity could be a problem in the future (ex. if by any chance sanctuary was given atropos-esque uniques).

VampFury
02-24-2014, 11:25 PM
I still have 0 Wolf Captains after like ~70 Void Rising packs, and 16 Wildcards/WC is robbery >.>

Best 64 Wildcards I spent in my life! :)

malkorion
02-25-2014, 12:04 AM
Best 64 Wildcards I spent in my life! :)

I don't know why people are so afraid to spend their wildcards. You will not be able to open every epic from packs. I've bought my 4 DAs waaaay before I opened a single one from a booster pack.

Ivo54
02-25-2014, 10:55 AM
Why not put on prison "after you play it, banish it" if your only concern are antifun decks :nonchalance:
Uniques are crap mostly

gabusan
02-25-2014, 01:48 PM
- A unique creature, building or ongoing spell or fortune that is destroyed is banished instead of going to the graveyard.
- A unique instant spell or fortune is banished after it is played.[/B]

This explanation is too convoluted. Keep things simple with this:

"A unique card that would to the graveyard from play or after being played is instead banished"

gabusan
02-25-2014, 01:52 PM
This explanation is too convoluted. Keep things simple with this:

"A unique card that would to the graveyard from play or after being played is instead banished"

I am not sure unique creatures need to be banished, though. The tactics involving recovering the same unique creature over and over seem like legit to me. There are worse things out there.

Magothion
03-01-2014, 09:42 AM
4. I do not understand how being able to play UNIQUE creatures / spells / fortunes once is somehow wrong or counter-intuitive. They're UNIQUE.
I'm amazed at how many people have made this nonsensical argument. Atropos is still the one and only Atropos whether he's freshly cast or reanimated. I'm not sure what definition of "unique" you're going by to think otherwise.

The manner in which this was handled is obviously flawed. They should have just taken a play from Magic: The Gathering and specifically made problem cards get banished upon resolution in the same way that cards like Temporal Mastery (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=240133) get exiled.

malkorion
03-01-2014, 11:49 AM
I'm amazed at how many people have made this nonsensical argument. Atropos is still the one and only Atropos whether he's freshly cast or reanimated. I'm not sure what definition of "unique" you're going by to think otherwise.

The manner in which this was handled is obviously flawed. They should have just taken a play from Magic: The Gathering and specifically made problem cards get banished upon resolution in the same way that cards like Temporal Mastery (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=240133) get exiled.

Yeah, but MtG has 20+ years of history. So it had time to work on the flaws, though I think that the new Legendary rule in MtG is even worse than it was. Now any player may control the same legendary creature, which makes no sense to me.

Papa_Nurgle
03-01-2014, 06:47 PM
I rather like Legendaries 2.0. I always thought it was kind of silly that they would explode upon meeting each other. If it satisfies your fluff gripes, MtG Legendaries are heroes in their own right, why shouldn't they be able play both sides of a conflict?

malkorion
03-01-2014, 08:00 PM
I rather like Legendaries 2.0. I always thought it was kind of silly that they would explode upon meeting each other. If it satisfies your fluff gripes, MtG Legendaries are heroes in their own right, why shouldn't they be able play both sides of a conflict?

You can't please everybody. But either of the two new legendary rules are better than pre-Kamigawa era. Whoever casts the legend first, wins.

Magothion
03-01-2014, 11:31 PM
Yeah, but MtG has 20+ years of history. So it had time to work on the flaws, though I think that the new Legendary rule in MtG is even worse than it was. Now any player may control the same legendary creature, which makes no sense to me.
The previous legend rule led to ridiculous plays (clones to kill legends) and the random screwing of players (two of you happen to play Volrath's Stronghold? Blow them all up.) Sometimes people would run a legend or planeswalker just to destroy others of the same name -- it was asinine. Regardless of what one might think about the flavor of what is happening there, the change makes sense from a gameplay perspective and a fun perspective.

And yes, MTG has been around longer, but that isn't relevant. No one on the Ubisoft staff plays MTG to make such comparisons? No one on the staff thought to tap ideas from the most popular, long-standing CCG of them all? It's just negligence.

Papa_Nurgle
03-04-2014, 03:19 AM
No one on the staff thought to tap ideas from the most popular, long-standing CCG of them all? It's just negligence.

Rimshot.wav

Kimundi
03-04-2014, 02:43 PM
The maintenance will take Tuesday, march 4th at 2pm GMT / 9am CET. It will last around 2 hours.

In the meantime, Aza404 and Kimmundi will cast some recorded games on the Team Stream ! > www.twitch.tv/duelofchampions

benderr7
03-04-2014, 02:45 PM
Can't revive Eleonore ? :/ It's painfull ...

xenon12782
03-04-2014, 03:37 PM
Yeah good work there Ubisoft.

RIP any interesting deck that is playable in the current meta
RIP JKKKs Dhamiria deck (love you for that deck bro)
RIP Adar Malik (okay Atropos spam + Paos/Banshees was brainless but still no reason to destroy the only competitive deck necro had)
RIP Sendalphon Lock. (brain afk too with the right hands but it could be easily countered)

Guess any Kelthor player will fa* on this patch notes...
Actually I loled hard at the Duell of Kelthors Banner, I guess they will introduce that with the upcoming patch.

No seriously... Don't you want to improve the Meta? It is not like its boring enough atm. Shouldn't a card game be interesting? Do you really want that the rest of us that does not play Kelthor atm swaps to it?
This patch only destroys the hard counter decks that Kelthor had (my opinion and I will stick to it.) W/o a horrible hand he will rule over any other deck now.
Ofc you can beat him easily with the right deck but this patch just buffs a already very strong deck.

Dunno we should now make a T2 tier a T1 one and a 3rd one called Kelthor Tier.

One spell to rule them all, one Tainted Orc to find them,
One Blackskull Crusher to own them all and in the Kelthor bind them.
Didnt Tolkien said something like that? :D


Oh yeah and I didnt mentioned Hakeem Deck yet.

Well maybe we get 80% Kelthor vs 20% Hakeem Mill after this well thought patch.

No need to make a long post you said everything I wanted to say o.O Kelthor was already about 50% of T1 now its probably gonna be close to 75%(rest will probably be some Ishuma Mill and Gazal).. Good job.
Dhamiria is out
Sandal lock is out
Cassandra gets hurted too (they usually play 1-2 cosmic and now Kelthor can just put more blind arbiters to counter it even more)
If any of you is tired of playing Kelthors in Jackpot watch out after patch

ssuppraerro
03-04-2014, 04:34 PM
R.I.P in peace adar -malik, this update suck, necro again nerfed, why do you hate necro so much?

ssuppraerro
03-04-2014, 04:37 PM
R.I.P sandal prison too but it's an ******* deck

TotooriaHelmold
03-04-2014, 05:36 PM
It seems the silent death didn't return to hand since this patch. Is it a bug?

Kimundi
03-04-2014, 06:10 PM
It seems the silent death didn't return to hand since this patch. Is it a bug?

It is indeed, we are already aware and we'll take action soon to correct it. It behaved correctly on the balancing environnement, thanks for your quick report.

Revalon
03-04-2014, 06:19 PM
It seems the silent death didn't return to hand since this patch. Is it a bug?

Just tried it, and it indeed got banished. Strange, as it is not even destroyed...and being returned to hand definitely works at least with unique creatures.
Shi-No-Shi on the other hand works as intended and gets shuffled into library after being destroyed.

TrueHolstt
03-04-2014, 07:27 PM
Would like to try the new environment, but the launcher doesn't work after the upgrade.

:(

TrueHolstt
03-04-2014, 07:46 PM
Would like to try the new environment, but the launcher doesn't work after the upgrade.

:(

Removed the DoC from my pC.

Downloaded DoC.

Still no responese: programme won't launch.

TrueHolstt
03-04-2014, 08:09 PM
Removed the DoC from my pC.

Downloaded DoC.

Still no responese: programme won't launch.

Am I the only one who cannot get access to the game atm?

:confused:

Imonothep
03-04-2014, 08:20 PM
Tell me Ubisoft, why u do this. Every time when new patch is online I have to download a whole game again (250mB). With my Internet connection it takes a few hours to make it happen. As far as I know there were no major adjustments to the client so why Ubisoft? Why do you do this? Why?!

Kimundi
03-04-2014, 09:01 PM
Am I the only one who cannot get access to the game atm?

:confused:

On what platform are you playing? Launcher or Steam?

TrueHolstt
03-04-2014, 09:06 PM
On what platform are you playing? Launcher or Steam?

Launcher version.

When I click on the launcher a box pops up and just says "Checking launcher for updates". Then the box disappers, and nothing happens.

And now, when I have your attention: thanks for a good game.

From a happy camper at the 1100 ELO level. :cool:

Kimundi
03-04-2014, 09:11 PM
Try to launch the game as administrator and disable any firewalls you may have :)

And you're welcome, I know SimonV comes through the forums often, he'll be happy to see you are enjoying the game!

FluffyPeas
03-04-2014, 09:33 PM
Guys can you fix Silnet Death?
After this update - Silent Death work only once and banish self (never come back to hand).
Hope you do something, thanks.

AndrzejChrist
03-04-2014, 09:37 PM
Yo Guys!

Just check it...

In my opinion, this change is amazingly bad. It hurts the Ethic of mechanism of the game. Instead doing move like this, they should think before, and make rules of Uniques cards which haven't made them OP or so useful...

Any way, the game, thanks to invention of the players was really spectacular. Yes - You could have impression that players are abusing the rules, and made a deck which should be banned... but luckily every fraction had combination like that. And the balance was restore thanks to it. There was no deck which could win with everyone, so where was a problem? WTF?

Moreover - what Ubisoft should say now to the players whose spend real money to get the packs and wildcards, to build a particular deck, which now is not valid?

Seriously - is it beginning of era of re-ta-rded play of creatures vs creatures like Kelthor, Crag Hag and Acamas? If so, I'm stoping to play this game. It lost it's charm of... Charm of having impression of playing OP deck... All We had it, and all We've been go to this moment. And now... Really sorrow of lost is hurting me...

I need to sleep this change over...

I feel like I have lost something.

elite_Husky
03-04-2014, 09:43 PM
Wow, finally. I just fell in love with Heartstone for half a year already but I will try again my Sandal today!

Revalon
03-04-2014, 09:53 PM
AndrzejChrist, no, there were only few decks that could make that good use of unique recycling. Sandalphon Prison Lock was probably the deck using this at biggest potential.

Everything else I have not seen as a problem.

And just like with Ammar, those who spent real money to get a deck now no longer working should have known that it will most likely not stay like that forever.

So, though I'm not completely happy about how the fix was done (Necro nerfed hard - not only Adar, but also all other creature recursion. Changing Singularity would have been better from a view that sees what we have now - don't know what is about to come), I would not really complain about it.


elite_Husky: damn, and I thought you were gone for good ;)

TrueHolstt
03-04-2014, 10:17 PM
Try to launch the game as administrator and disable any firewalls you may have :)

And you're welcome, I know SimonV comes through the forums often, he'll be happy to see you are enjoying the game!

I'm admistrator, and I'm launching the game as I did yesterday and as I do with any other game without any problems. The Norton firewall doesn't have anything to with this DoC launching problem because it'll pop up and tell me if it prevents a programme from being launched, and then I just overrule it as an administrator.

I will just wait a few days, and see if it's working again. And I can live with the downside that today is the 7th day that I've saved up gold, so now I loose a bit of this and that.

I shall returm if this isn't over by Friday.

cristiz0rlike
03-04-2014, 10:34 PM
this patch is full of bugs...last game i destroyed a pearl priestess and she banished....i was playing garant vs yukiko....fix them bugs...

Minato2727
03-04-2014, 10:40 PM
Good step to balance OP combos! Well done guys!

Finally we won't see Prison, Prison, Prison, Prison, Prison over and over and over again. :D

jclaiborne2007
03-05-2014, 04:55 AM
1. I do not understand how an entire player base can complain about a mechanic and then complain when the developers do something to fix said mechanic.

2. I do not understand how the developers are supposed to implement any changes when every time they do there is an immense amount of backlash.

3. I do not understand how this game is supposed to go forward or have a future if people are going to leave if changes aren't made and they are also going to leave if changes are made.

4. I do not understand how being able to play UNIQUE creatures / spells / fortunes once is somehow wrong or counter-intuitive. They're UNIQUE.

5. I truly do not understand why people have to be so negative no matter what the Developers @ Ubi try to do. So much hate when all they are trying to do is listen and respond.


Thank you, Devs, for doing what the Community has asked you to do. I am sorry and apologize that we, as a Community, are a bunch of spoiled, whiny brats.

[Just a disclaimer - I'm a 1501+ ELO player that has no problem with Sandal-Lock, Alia Rage or any other Unique Recycling. HOWEVER, I have noticed a huge amount of outcry from the Community (even tho' I personally don't care one way or another) and would have reacted similarly if I were a Dev @ Ubi.]


[Another disclaimer - I do agree that they should wait 'til the Beat the Jack Tournament is over. However, in MTG, there have been HUGE events, like Worlds (200k+ prize pool), that have taken place right after major changes were made to bans / formats / etc. Being able to adapt in other Card Games is one of several things that makes a great player.]

I am a new player and have spent all my wild cards trying to build an Adar deck. Now, i am no longer interested in playing this game.

Kimundi
03-05-2014, 10:41 AM
this patch is full of bugs...last game i destroyed a pearl priestess and she banished....i was playing garant vs yukiko....fix them bugs...

Can you send us a replay or more infos of what cards were used, we tried to reproduce the bug, everything worked as expected.

TrueHolstt
03-06-2014, 06:06 PM
Try to launch the game as administrator and disable any firewalls you may have :)

And you're welcome, I know SimonV comes through the forums often, he'll be happy to see you are enjoying the game!

Yesterday everything worked again and DoC loaded as before the maintenance period. I didn't do anything, - just waited it out, so I guess it must have been some kind of momentary glitch.

Yesterday, I couldn't access this forum though, I got the following message: You are not age compliant to login to this forum. Click here to go to the chilndren's forum. I was born in 1957, so it was kind of an interesting message. :D


Total result: 1 DoC glitch and then 1 DoC forum glitch, but worst thing was that I lost a day 7 in "Daily Rewards", - annoying but not a big thing.

Big thing now is finding out how to win in duels against Kelthor and Sandalphon the miller. Devs must have thought about that b4 they changed the rules, and it's just me who have to figure out how to beat them at least 50% of the time with the same deck. DoC is still an interesting game.:cool:

BTW: It's raining with various millers in the 1100 ELO area, - who is kicking them out of the upper levels?

teganotejodes
03-11-2014, 10:11 PM
The only thing you needed to do was put cosmic singularity as unique fortune.....

Revalon
03-11-2014, 11:46 PM
The only thing you needed to do was put cosmic singularity as unique fortune.....

When changing Singularity, making it not reshuffle uniques would have been better than this crap idea to make it unique. In itself, it's not strong enough to make it unique. If so, you should be able to activate the reshuffling by simply playing it, but even then...

Mighty7PL
03-14-2014, 10:57 PM
Hi everyone ;)
Can somebody tell me why unique rule doesn't apply to Dark Assasins? Why you can still have up to 4 DA in your deck if it is epic card?

Revalon
03-14-2014, 11:16 PM
Hi everyone ;)
Can somebody tell me why unique rule doesn't apply to Dark Assasins? Why you can still have up to 4 DA in your deck if it is epic card?

Because DA is not unique.

Not every epic card is unique, DA being one example.

A unique card has "unique" in her description:
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s01/large/s01_Cre_Neu_024.jpg
like here, "Unique Creature"

On the other hand, not every unique card is epic:
http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/b01/large/b01_For_Hav_005.jpg

but until now, Prison is the only non-epic unique card, as it used not to be unique, but was made (for obvious reason)


Hope I could help you.