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View Full Version : All liquid cooled inlines should be equally fragile



LeadSpitter_
04-12-2004, 04:34 AM
Please make all liquid cooled engines equally fragile maddox as they should be, not an immediate sieze but a slower grind then sieze.

I dont know if its been said before but with some of the twin engine new aircraft p38 bf110 if one engine is damaged it will say you been shot down or crash landed after returning to base even tho one engine is still fine and you landed on all 3 wheels.

Instead of the engine being damaged not giving full points is it possible to add that to landing gears being damaged or ripped off giving the crash landed msg

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt

LeadSpitter_
04-12-2004, 04:34 AM
Please make all liquid cooled engines equally fragile maddox as they should be, not an immediate sieze but a slower grind then sieze.

I dont know if its been said before but with some of the twin engine new aircraft p38 bf110 if one engine is damaged it will say you been shot down or crash landed after returning to base even tho one engine is still fine and you landed on all 3 wheels.

Instead of the engine being damaged not giving full points is it possible to add that to landing gears being damaged or ripped off giving the crash landed msg

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt

04-12-2004, 03:44 PM
Not all liquid cooled engines are equally fragile.

Take the Allison V-1710 for instance. The P-40 was considered to be tougher than the P-39 because the P-40's radiator was tucked up inside the bottom of the nose. The P-39's equipment was in the rear, unarmored, and easier to shoot from a 6 o'clock position.

Rather than arcading out the sim by making all aircraft equal, it is better to keep tuning the complex DM.

chris455
04-12-2004, 03:51 PM
Both were considered exceedingly tough planes.
No account that I have heard has described the P-39 or P-40 as fragile in any way.
S!

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clint-ruin
04-12-2004, 04:28 PM
The structure of both planes is quite tough.

All inline engines in the game [or at least, all I have tested] can be set on fire or reduced to the thick black smoke/slow fire state by either a single 15mm 151/15 AP round or a single 151/20 APIT. Some are more likely to instantly burst into flames than others - Spitfire, Hurricane, P-40 [both 105mod and Allison], P-39 will quite often catch fire immediately and blow up before the pilot can eject, though there is a small variation in how much time you have before it blows from hit to hit.

There have been accounts posted here before describing the P-39 as having 1.5 tons of allison armour in the back - probably was pretty effective at stopping rifle cal or even possibly 12.7/13mm rounds from being able to punch through the pilot armour after travelling through the engine.

I don't believe it is realistic to expect any inline engine to be in a very good state of running after being hit with 20mm AP rounds, regardless of any account describing the plane in general as 'rugged'.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

04-12-2004, 05:08 PM
I agree with clint-ruin. The engine itself is great pilot protection in the P-39. However, the engine obviously sacrifices itself in defence of the pilot.

The pilot's accounts I've read from the south pacific, where both P-39 and P-40 flew, were of the _opinion_ that the P-40 was tougher. These pilots were probably mostly concerned about getting shot by small caliber MG from 6 o'clock. They also obviously cared about being able to fly home. It doesn't help much if your P-39 engine saves your life, only to force you to crash land in the highlands of PNG.

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chris455
04-12-2004, 05:59 PM
Cosmo, can you post some of the stuff you've read to that effect?

I'm not denying the P-40 was tough- I'm certifying it. But at the same time, I've yet to see an account that says one was "tougher" than the other.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/P47.jpg

Ring-
04-13-2004, 05:31 PM
109s from the F on had isol;ater vavels.. if 1 was damaged, they could shut it down and run off the 2nd 1

jurinko
04-14-2004, 06:13 AM
be sure the differences in engine vulnerability, as it is modelled now is ridiculous. Allison, Merlin/Packard, Daimler-Benz can be damaged very easily, very prone to catching fire, which is quite realistic I think.
On the other hand, the same type of engine - VK-105 series - they were based on French Hispano-Suiza so no pure Soviet design - are much more rugged in case of Yaks, and desperately rugged in case of LaGGs. After multiple hits which should make any plane in game including P-47 explode, VK-105P of LaGG-3 just stops without any danger of fire to its pilot. Very rarely it releases thin trail of smoke. One of the biggest DM flaw.

----------------------
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Kurfurst__
04-14-2004, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
Some are more likely to instantly burst into flames than others - Spitfire, Hurricane, P-40 [both 105mod and Allison], P-39 will quite often catch fire immediately and blow up before the pilot can eject, though there is a small variation in how much time you have before it blows from hit to hit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is probably caused by the fuel tank being located near to the engine perhaps. I have noticed that Spits explode almost instanlty after the engine is on fire - thanks to the fuel tank being right behind the engine, flames reach the tank quickly... same reason for getting fried in the cocpit very often in that plane. Not sure, but I think the Hurri also had its fuel tank behind the engine. Its harder to reach from behind, but when its hit, its almost always catasptrophic, especially when hit from high anlge shots..

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