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XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:45 PM
I guess the German aircraft finally went through hibernation. They handle better and turn better.

Any comments on the German aircraft's, especially 109s, survivorbility in the new patch?

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:45 PM
I guess the German aircraft finally went through hibernation. They handle better and turn better.

Any comments on the German aircraft's, especially 109s, survivorbility in the new patch?

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:51 PM
still fly like stuffed pigs and get gutted like stuff pigs...

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:56 PM
one ting i dont get, if u got the 1.2b already u cool wid dis version?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/viper.jpg
47|FC

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:04 PM
quiet in here - everybody's testing... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

M0NS (authorized P39 pyrotechnician)



"Blow up the outside world"

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My garage!

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 11:57 PM
FW190D9's handle more sluggishly in turn fights and stall way more often during scissors and rolling turn fights than they did in 1.11.

Before anyone makes a comment about the D9 not being a turnfighter, it's not obviously, but without doubt it stalls more than it used to in previous patches. It almost reminds me of the 190A5 from IL2 1.04...one must be very careful on the stick at all times and especially at high altitude.

It also feels terribly mushy in vertical loops now and generally has worse handling than ever, though the rollrate has been toned down a hair.

She's still a great plane but is now most definately in the 'not for noobs' category. The D9 takes a lot of care and attention to fly well.

Good news is the guns seem improved, E retention is improved and she climbs better than she used to, although not by alot it is noticable.



TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 12:24 AM
Bummed about the KI84 The rate of fire on the HO 5 cannon made them devastating. They are pea shooters in this game. Back to the FW's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 12:32 AM
D9 seems about the same to me except she retains perfromance a little better above 7000m. 20mm's seem improved too. Zero handles like a dream dispite being totally inneffective in combat. Ki-84 is a super plane as it should be. P-51D5 was toned down from the leaked 1.2b, mostly in turn and climb rate. She is no longer an I-153 with a rocket booster attached /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . Bf-109's seem about that same as in the leaked 1.2b, which is marginally better than in 1.11. The one 7.62mm hit = all controls severed bug was corrected as well. I consider 1.2RC a step in the right direction.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:35 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
- P-51D5 was toned down
- from the leaked 1.2b, mostly in turn and climb rate.
- She is no longer an I-153 with a rocket booster
- attached /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:38 AM
My AutoLeveler doesn't work with 1.2RC01, anyone else??

wcat

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:46 AM
I guess i wont be using the D27 any more for BnZ. Just cant manuver the plane any more.

I noticed the Ki-84 is still a great plane and i enjoy flying it. but it dives faster then the P-51 and the Jug. ?

The top speed has beed redused for the Pony also. I mean the top speed was alittle too high in the beta 1.2 but now it is too slow. i got it upto about 675kmph. at an alt of 7600m, one secon later the engine went lol.

Im not impressed with the FM for some planes but hey, it is still a great game and there are other planes to fly.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:48 AM
Has everyone forgotten?

Oleg said post your observations to him. You have till Thursday, nothing is set yet...



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:51 AM
hey fixed the annoying yellow cockpit color that happened while firing guns...!!! thats an improvement

http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/griffon.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:55 AM
Experiments in extremes. One release things are good, the next release things change so drastically it's unenjoyable. I hope that when the last patch/addon is out the planes are modeled as close to the way they really were in their time. And everyone knows it and has to deal with it. This is the way it really was, so adapt like the truelife pilots had to.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:02 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- They NEVER were even close to what you describe in
- 1.2B.
-
- What they were was accurate.
-
- What you wrote is typical of the losers who got
- mopped up by people using them correctly. Thanks to
- $h|t like that it sounds as though they've been
- quite castrated.
-
- Huckles and crew should be proud.

*sigh*

(t)roll call:
===================
DDT? "Present sir!"

Dial it back a bit eh?

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:19 AM
Initial impressions. (Only flew planes with which I was familiar, in order that I might be able to observe changes. FWs, Yaks, Las)

FM
Everything feels "heavier." It's as if powerloading was degraded on later model planes -- especially LW -- or Earth's gravity got stronger. In no way am I accusing anyone of bias; simply commenting on what I "felt."

No doubt the FM changes are going to fuel lots of finger pointing and arguement. Things do feel substantially different than pre-patch. Reminds me of original IL2.

DM/GUNS
Seemed about the same IMHO.

Hope Oleg and team nailed it because relearning planes entirely with each new patch is losing its appeal.

S!

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:41 AM
i love the patch. there are just a few small details i dont like tho. one is that in WWII p-51 pilots had to switch from drop tank to drop tank every 15 minutes or so to keep the planes weight distributed evenly. this is not in the game. and the second thing is i wish there were those clamp things on the pylons for bombs and drop tanks. they have them on the p-47, just not the p-51. it looks weird when the drop tanks are just kind of floating from below the mustang. but other than that i love the patch.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:50 AM
AI are underwhelming, they sure like crisscrossing through the sight, not even an attempt to get out of plane even if they have to ram, sigh...............

The highly manouverable slower oldies like I-16's are on crack when they evade, good luck hitting the UFO's. The fast ones that should zip away easy seem to roll and turn right into the coffin, not much of a fight even attempted there.

The disparity in types and performance is to great and can't be covered by same set of AI manouver rules. Simply doesn't play, never really has, but it sure grows worse the more the FM's expand.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:56 AM
Scratch my earlier post.

After spending more time versus the AI... all I can say is this patch is a disaster. I had 1.2b (the one just before RC01). Flew it for about a week. It was terrific. Planes were pretty balanced. Save a few issued like ki-84 being faster than a pony.

Now, the AI just fly circles around you, don't bleed E. Sigh. I don't understand how things can change so drastically from one patch to the next. It almost feels like they released the wrong patch again, like this preceeded the one that was leaked.

I really hope Oleg doesn't slip into defensive "you is wrong" mode because this thing needs beaucoup work.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:59 AM
1.2 rc 01 is much much worse then 1.2 beta

1.2 b seemed to have a couple issues witht he stang ki84 zero p40 hurricane

but in 1.2 reality ceases 01 theres over 40 probs from no stick pressure no blackouts taking off in 10 feet super manueverabilty, russian over 900km dive speeds its crazy and if this is what 1.2f will be like im seriously thinking of putting the controller down for good

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:07 AM
STOP it lead....your scaring me~~~!!!!

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:14 AM
I'm using the 1.2b and I think its good; a significant improvement. I was assuming this thread would have mostly compliments.

Judgment on handling characteristics will always be subjective. As an example, I think the 109s are noticeably better than in 1.11.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:15 AM
Agreed on the stick pressure Lead.

You pull back and there's nothing. Just mush on the elevators like the cables have beens severed. Tweaked my settings several times to no avial. I'm just scratching my head on this patch??

If I were Oleg and UBI, I'd return to 1.2 beta (pre RC01) and work from there because this thing is simply awful.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:23 AM
Disaster again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


-------------------------------------------------------------
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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:34 AM
99% bugs still there. Some new ones added. But on plus side, some things are fixed.

1. 50 cal mechanical dispersion lowered significantly.
2. Yaw jitter caused by 50cal fire reduced.

You can actually hit things with 50cal further than 200 meters now. The P-47 doesn't shake like an epileptic when you shoot. P-40 and P-51 rock solid shooters. Yay.

3. FW-190 will die when you shoot it.

I no longer feel invincible in the 190, as it sheds its wings, tail and engine much easier now. If only they could
fix the LaGG-3 too, I would be really happy...

4. Hurricane has gun shake where there was none before.

Doesn't affect accuracy, but nice aesthetic touch.

5. Hurricane overheats in short order. No more 30min WEP.

6. Hit sound effects are back. Finally.


Thats all I see for now. I'd make a list of unfixed bugs, but I don't have 3 days to spare...







Message Edited on 11/10/0307:40PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:50 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- Maj_Death wrote:
-- P-51D5 was toned down
-- from the leaked 1.2b, mostly in turn and climb rate.
-- She is no longer an I-153 with a rocket booster
-- attached http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:53 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- They NEVER were even close to what you describe in
- 1.2B.
-
- What they were was accurate.
-
- What you wrote is typical of the losers who got
- mopped up by people using them correctly. Thanks to
- $h|t like that it sounds as though they've been
- quite castrated.
-
- Huckles and crew should be proud.

Nice trolling, it will get a response from me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

The 1.2b P-51 could outturn almost anything at high speed, I have no problem with that. Trouble is it could also outturn almost anything at 200km/h as well. That I do have a problem with /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . The P-51 was a wonderful B&Z fighter but she was not a turn fighter as shown in the leaked 1.2 beta. With 1.2RC she still turns great at high speed but no longer turns with zero's at low speed. Also, the speed was too high (by 20km/h) in 1.2beta, in 1.2RC I havn't done a formal test yet but it seems a little slower. Climb rate was reduced to about 3500 ft/min from off the gauge. So basically it is now subject to gravity and air resistance. It did see some performance increases too though. Most notable is its ability to get hit once or twice and not shed its wings, tail or burst into flames. That more than compensates for the de-tiefightering of the P-51. Of course some people such as yourself don't give a flying f*ck about realism and just want your favorite plane to be twice as fast and outturn everything else to make up for your lack of flying ability. Fortunatly Oleg isn't one of those people nor is the real P-51 pilot that is advising him on how the it should handle.

There, responded to your troll. Happy now? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Message Edited on 11/10/0308:53PM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:54 AM
This is great! We've got people in here claiming completely contradictory things about the patch.

I suggest y'all do some testing before you pass judgement on the flight models. Little too much of this "it just feels wrong" BS flying around.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:56 AM
I was tearing 'em apart with 6 x .50 cal in 1.2b. I knew I shoulda saved that track...

StG77_Fennec wrote:

- 3. FW-190 will die when you shoot it.


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1951.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:57 AM
I didn't say it just feels wrong, I said it just feels slightly different. Can't argue that as being BS or not. I doubt any would disagree that 1.2b and 1.2RC are different.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 04:27 AM
AKD, you don't know how "finished" it was. And as we've seen Olegs "vision" is not necessarily inline with accuracy.


Maj_Death wrote:
- Nice trolling, it will get a response from me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

Not trolling, it was truth. Sorry.


- The 1.2b P-51 could outturn almost anything at high
- speed, I have no problem with that. Trouble is it
- could also outturn almost anything at 200km/h as
- well. That I do have a problem with /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Um....no. Again, sorry.

Not sure what you were flying, or who against, but, NOTHING turned with the Zeros. Last night I ventured into one out of frustration and, at about 400kph, was jumped by a Mustang. My response? Stand it on the left wing and pull hard. It worked. I shot the bastage down. A-Cat something or other.

Making statements like you did show just how poorly people understood what the P-51 could do in FB.

With lots of E, and combat flaps, it'll black you out, sure. But that's inline with every combat pilot report I've come across, that addressed it's handling - by those that flew them.

It would not out run a Ki down low. It would not out turn a Ki or Zero, anywhere. It was about on par with the Dora and K4, which is correct.


- The P-51 was a wonderful B&Z
- fighter but she was not a turn fighter as shown in
- the leaked 1.2 beta. With 1.2RC she still turns
- great at high speed but no longer turns with zero's
- at low speed.

WAS a good BnZ in 1.2B. Not a great turn fighter. I spent lots of time in it and against it online against dedicated BnZers and TnBers. In short, your perception was flat out wrong. No other way to say it.

Now, it's missing about 2 spark plugs and has it's canopy stuck open.


- Also, the speed was too high (by
- 20km/h) in 1.2beta, in 1.2RC I havn't done a formal
- test yet but it seems a little slower.

A claim made by only a handful. Just as many indicated that they could not reach those speeds. Nobody offered tracks.


- Climb rate
- was reduced to about 3500 ft/min from off the gauge.
- So basically it is now subject to gravity and air
- resistance.

You do know that climb tests were done with full fuel and we fly it with 25%.....right? Didn't you read that thread by, I think it was Buzzsaw, that spoke about fuel weight and performance differences?

"subject to gravity" my a$$. Subject to the LW and VVS fanboys.


- It did see some performance increases
- too though. Most notable is its ability to get hit
- once or twice and not shed its wings, tail or burst
- into flames. That more than compensates for the
- de-tiefightering of the P-51. Of course some people
- such as yourself don't give a flying f*ck about
- realism and just want your favorite plane to be
- twice as fast and outturn everything else to make up
- for your lack of flying ability.

Now you are staring this BS again. Many have complimented me on my "ability". And I have fun. Which means that more often than not, I am not frustrated, and not getting shot down. So, shove it back up you a$$.

And uh - I fly the P-47 bub. Once again we see BS spewing forth from you. A 190 pilot claiming the P-51 was unrealistic....gee, imagine that. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


- Fortunatly Oleg
- isn't one of those people nor is the real P-51 pilot
- that is advising him on how the it should handle.

Like the "real" P-47 pilot that oversaw that BS FM? LMAO! You have to do better than that.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 04:44 AM
Seems like it's more work to fly most planes, which to me feels more real. Seems easier to stall most planes with quick stick movements.

I like the improved gun damage.

I'm really happy the ME109 overheating behavior now. I did some fighting and was pretty hot, dialed back to 80% throttle and the engine cooled and the radiators actually closed. The 109 seems to handle more damage now.

The P47D27 seems to handle better now.

Attacking a B17 is really dangerous unless you've got a radial engine in front of you. The gunners seem to be more accurate than I expected. I like how it seems to have structural failure when it starts spinning out of control.

DangerForward

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 04:59 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- Many have complimented me on my "ability".

One more word about your "ability" and I'm going to start a lynch mob and come afta ya!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:03 AM
DDT, I perform all my formal tests with 100% fuel and standard armament. But there is no point in argueing with you, you clearly have no interest in facts so why bother posting them for you.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:07 AM
two quick things
1- the new public beta runs choppy on my system compared to the smoothness of the leaked beta. I can see little hesitations when I roll a plane.
2- in both the leaked , and the public beta, sometimes the controls just momentarily stop working. I notice this when coming level from a dive. If I pull on the stick nothing happens for an instant or two. I feel myself waiting for it. I have a the Cougar Hotas. This problem is not apparent in 1.11. Neither is item 1

my system (main stuff):
winxp home edition sp1
dx9b
Abit IS7 mobo with latest bios
9500 pro with Cat3.7 (perfect mode)
786 mb Kingston ddr pc 3500 hyperx ram
Cougar Hotas

T


Speed is Life! But being a good shot comes in handy too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:09 AM
Korolov wrote:
- BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
-- Many have complimented me on my "ability".
-
- One more word about your "ability" and I'm going to
- start a lynch mob and come afta ya!

Because you're a ***** and get your jollies that way. No surprises here. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:10 AM
My pony has been castrated /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

However in a way I like this...gives me a challenge to work with.

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:11 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
- DDT, I perform all my formal tests with 100% fuel
- and standard armament. But there is no point in
- argueing with you, you clearly have no interest in
- facts so why bother posting them for you.

Crack? Or cult nirvanna?

Not much else could explain you here.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:20 AM
Cult Cradle of Filth. Nirvanna sucks. BTW, I finally did a formal speed test of the P-51D-5NT in the 1.2RC, top speed is 591km/h TAS in level flight at 2-5m ASL (crimea) with 100% fuel and default armament as opposed to the D20's listed speed of 578km/h. Don't believe it, here is a track just for you www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/files/P-51speedtest.ntrk (not autolinked cause freebee hosts don't allow it)

Normally I wouldn't do this, but I feel like being an *sshole today and proving your stupidity beyond a reasonable doubt.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Message Edited on 11/10/0310:21PM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:24 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- AKD, you don't know how "finished" it was. And as
- we've seen Olegs "vision" is not necessarily inline
- with accuracy.

I know that, at least, the supercharger was not modelled correctly, the radiator was not modelled correctly and the boost was not modelled correctly.

- WAS a good BnZ in 1.2B. Not a great turn fighter. I
- spent lots of time in it and against it online
- against dedicated BnZers and TnBers. In short, your
- perception was flat out wrong. No other way to say
- it.
-
- Now, it's missing about 2 spark plugs and has it's
- canopy stuck open.

Lots of time? The leaked beta was around for what? A week?

-- Also, the speed was too high (by
-- 20km/h) in 1.2beta, in 1.2RC I havn't done a formal
-- test yet but it seems a little slower.
-
- A claim made by only a handful. Just as many
- indicated that they could not reach those speeds.
- Nobody offered tracks.

I don't see you putting forward any tracks.



--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 05:40 AM
Can DDT come back? does he have the will? does he have the evidence? It's a standing eight count...

Can it be? is DDT <img src=http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/ownedbruceleecrotchanim.gif>?

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Message Edited on 11/11/0303:41PM by hobnail

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 06:19 AM
The pony has been castrated because of the incessant whinning, yes it was too fast but now at altitude it is way too friggin slow. By the way I performed the tests, as specified it is 45 Kph too slow, so we went from one extreme to quite the other, I don't want the thing uber abd UFO I want it right. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif It should not be able to turn fight at slow speeds, it should not be able to do 400+ Mph at sea level, but it should be very fast at altitude and turn at high speeds better than anything else, it should also be able to outdive anything other than a Jug perhaps as well. I will have to re-think our squad staying here if this is the version we get. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 06:21 AM
ROFL

By these salivating OAKs? Not hardly.

Death is talking about SL max speed, I never was. Interesting that he would choose a different discussion point. (I made 1 passing comment about the top speed which was discussed as being too fast at altitude, and he comes back with SL speed. Go figure. Also, I said that it was mentioned as not being possible by as many as said it was. I made no direct claims of it's speed at any altitude. Guess it was too much of a bother to read for some, eh? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

Furthermore, I can see it now - any tracks regarding turning (to show that Death was talking out his lower blow hole) would be labled as rigged for the purpose of demonstration. I'd get nowhere in the attempt. I've dealt with religious zealotry plenty of times, I now how it works. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 06:50 AM
The Mustang did not win the war. Ubi Soft and 1C won the war for the Luftwaffe and Empire of Japan. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:00 AM
All watercraft now have realistic engine sounds, they didn't before. Gotta get close.

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:23 AM
I must say that to date, I absolutely love the release candidate! Great improvements all round. I esp. welcome the return of the plane "weight" or mass or whatever. Inertia seems to be back and proper tactics are rewarded.

The mustang is still a great plane as it should be but not a master of everything. Get slow or turn-fight aggressively and you're dead. Remember to load her up with only 25% fuel and keep her fast and high and she's a beauty.

109's climb as they should and are not completely impotent in the horizontal, beware the lure of a tempting turn-fight though - most planes will still have you for lunch.

190's regained some of their sluggishness in turns but I don't think that's too far off the mark. OTOH, their climb-rate, forever hampered seems finally plausible.

It's too early to say anything conclusive, but I just have a very good vibe about this patch. I still can't get over the feel of plane mass, it's very exciting. Hopefully 1.2final won't be too different.

<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:32 AM
I went ahead and reread all your posts in this thread, no where do you specify what altitude you are moaning about. You simply whine about performance in general. I did my tests at SL because that is simplest and I have yet to see a single mustang pilot fly above 2000m excluding myself. So SL seemed like it was the most probable place you were b*tching about. I can do tests at higher altitude. State the altitude and conditions and I'll run the test and post the track. But I doubt that would be enough for you. All you have done so far in this thread is spout personal insults rather than data. And I don't rig tests. I am good enough that I can score more kills than losses in pretty much anything (including the G6 early) so biasing the data wouldn't serve much purpose for me. I care about realism, and realism only. If that puts me at a disadvantage then so be it. Not like you can have much of an advantage in a Ju-87 or Fw-190F anyways /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

Just out of curiosity, how could I possibly rig the top speed as too high at any altitude? I could do too low very easily, but top speed in level flight is top speed in level flight. There is no way to make it appear faster than it really is. Turn rate is the same way, maximum turn rate is maximum turn rate. If you are unable to get everything out of the mustang that I can, then that is a problem with your flying ability, not the plane.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Message Edited on 11/11/0312:34AM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:42 AM
I never fly under 2k unless I am diving on someone in my Pony. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But it would be helpful if you could do the same test I did @ 7620 meters, 80% prop pitch, rad closed and 110% throttle in true level flight and post your findings. It should reach 703 kph at that altitude and those settings, but all I have managed is 658 kph. I just want to know what other people are getting, SL speed seems right on, but the high altitude is what really concerns me. I want it accurate, not over or under modelled. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center> <center> www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)
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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:50 AM
I'll perform that test in a moment. I just did a little turn rate test. At 1000m ASL with an initial velocity of 340km/h IAS on Crimea map heading due North I achieved a sustained turn rate of about 360 degrees per 22 seconds while going counter-clockwise. The raw data is as follows:

First turn = 24 seconds including roll from level flight

Second turn (continuation of first, so no roll time is included) = 19 seconds sustaining 310km/h IAS throughout.

Repeated test twice, got same results + or - 1 second for each turn. I really don't know if that is the correct turn rate or not. But it is inline with planes of its weight class.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:54 AM
Yeah that sounds about right, I will have to check some of my books on it though to be sure. I have noticed that all else seem's ok on the Mustang except CEM issues and the high altitude speed. Thank you for testing with me mate, it is appreciated. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:01 AM
Eagle bro, half are squad went back to the 1.2 Beta.

We where very unimpressed.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:09 AM
i have done my own test:

25% Fuel.

Default amo.

No prop pich.

alt 7600m

i managed to get to 670 kmh TAS. but i fride my engine.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:10 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
-
- Because you're a ***** and get your jollies that
- way. No surprises here.

The only ***** here is you. I have no idea why you're so f*cking p*ssed at the world. If this game bothers you so damn much, why don't you go play CFS3? No bias there, and you can mod your 10000000kph pony with 2 second 360 degree turn time there.

Learn to fly the plane as it is. They all had to.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:12 AM
At 7620m ASL I was able to reach 678km/h TAS with 100% prop pitch. With 80% pitch I only got 643km/h TAS. However I did start the test with 100% fuel at 10000m. If done starting on the ground some fuel would have been burned off and I probebly could have gone a little faster. Not much though. So I will agree that above 7000m the P-51 is slightly undermodeled and the CEM is screwed. But the amount it is undermodeled really isn't that much. Many planes are WAY off at altitudes above 7000m. Oleg himself has said that FB is really only intended to be accurate up to 5000m. Still it would be nice if the physics engine was good up to 12,000m. When I do fly fighters I tend to leave a vapor trail so it would be nice to have realistic performance up there. But we are a very small minority. Most go around hugging the valleys in those damn mountain maps.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:16 AM
Thanks Maj_Death, MapleTiger,
It is off indeed, but could be attributed to high altitude model here. Hope we can get a little bump up high, I would be happy with 690 Kph @ 5K and that is very close to reality from what I have read. Again my thanks for joining the test session it is appreciated. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:19 AM
i love all the new guns, they work now.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:19 AM
Did a quick test on the P-51D-5NT w/50% fuel, starting alt at 7500m. Because aileron trim isn't enabled with the P-51 yet, had to use stick to keep wings level, everything else trimmed out.

Max speed was at 695TAS, about 200mph IAS on the in cockpit indicator. Reached that speed at 6800m after 5 mins of testing, and it leveled out there.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:20 AM
I don`t have much to say here... you can throw any numbers you want...but the fact that REAL P-51 pilots is testing it has to say something...isn`t it? Clear that one for me, will ya?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:23 AM
Korolov,
What was your prop pitch and rad setting? Also what throttle and was any nose down used? Sorry but I am very interested. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif 695 kph is very liveable and I want to know how to achieve it mate. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Thanks for the test.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG


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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:26 AM
Eagle_361st wrote:
- Korolov,
- What was your prop pitch and rad setting? Also what
- throttle and was any nose down used? Sorry but I am
- very interested. 695 kph is very liveable and I
- want to know how to achieve it mate.

Since I had to fiddle with the stick and the trim a lot, I lost about 700m before finally leveling out. When I did level out, it wasnt perfect, was slightly nose up, but it was the best I could do. Prop pitch was at 100% and radiator was on automatic.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:31 AM
Ok thanks Korolov, I will try it and see what I can do. thanks. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center> <center> www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)
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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:42 AM
Patch seems ok to me, but then I dont test every plane to see if it matches what the OV says.

The main issues I have are the issues I have always had with IL2. AI shooting just below enemy planes ALL THE TIME and without fail. AI planes dont focus on objectives and they still TnB too much. I would love to see my group of 109s take a nice, quick pass at some I-16s and ''keep going''. Yes that is what they would do in real life. I dont want to turn fight in my 109G2 against Yaks, and neither should the leader of the flight. The AI always has to fight to the death, but they should be disengaging more, especially the Germans in 41', 42' when they could get away from almost anything the Russians had.

FMs, well..... I really just dont understand why they change so much. Sometimes it seems like Oleg and crew are just randomly entering data for the FMs. The Las, Yaks, 109s, and 190s change so much in every patch it feels like flying a different plane sometimes. If the new Fms are closer to reality then that is awesome, but I wish they could just make final Fms and be done with it.

Anyways, happy overall.



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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:44 AM
Korolov wrote:
- Did a quick test on the P-51D-5NT w/50% fuel,
- starting alt at 7500m. Because aileron trim isn't
- enabled with the P-51 yet, had to use stick to keep
- wings level, everything else trimmed out.
-
- Max speed was at 695TAS, about 200mph IAS on the in
- cockpit indicator. Reached that speed at 6800m after
- 5 mins of testing, and it leveled out there.
-



I have to disagree there.

I use 25% fuel and i could not get past 675kmh.

alt 7600m.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 08:53 AM
Eagle_361st wrote:
- The pony has been castrated because of the incessant
- whinning, yes it was too fast but now at altitude it
- is way too friggin slow. By the way I performed the
- tests, as specified it is 45 Kph too slow, so we
- went from one extreme to quite the other, I don't
- want the thing uber abd UFO I want it right. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif It should not be able to turn
- fight at slow speeds, it should not be able to do
- 400+ Mph at sea level, but it should be very fast at
- altitude and turn at high speeds better than
- anything else, it should also be able to outdive
- anything other than a Jug perhaps as well. I will
- have to re-think our squad staying here if this is
- the version we get. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
- ~S!
- Eagle
- CO 361st vFG
-
Rgrt! You wont ever hear me complaining about the P-51s ability to fight at low alt. But I will complain about its high alt performance. I got RC2 yesterday and was anxious to see how the ole girl performed now sice 1.2b, so I fired up a QMB starting at 10,000 meters. And the Mustangs high performance is gone! Nothing! So I tried the Ki at 10,000meters and it performs excellent at 10,000meters! I knew it was to good to be true to have a properly modeled US plane. 1.2b had it right IMO except it was a bit too fast. But there are several planes that are a bit too fast and always have been. And the Ki diving with a P-51 to 850kph from 10,000meters is crazy.


Eagle_361st wrote:
- The pony has been castrated because of the incessant
- whinning, yes it was too fast but now at altitude it
- is way too friggin slow. By the way I performed the
- tests, as specified it is 45 Kph too slow, so we
- went from one extreme to quite the other, I don't
- want the thing uber abd UFO I want it right. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif It should not be able to turn
- fight at slow speeds, it should not be able to do
- 400+ Mph at sea level, but it should be very fast at
- altitude and turn at high speeds better than
- anything else, it should also be able to outdive
- anything other than a Jug perhaps as well. I will
- have to re-think our squad staying here if this is
- the version we get. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
- ~S!
- Eagle
- CO 361st vFG
-
- <center>------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------------</center> <center>
- www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)
- <center>
<img
- src="http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/2
- 45357/site1003.jpg">
-
- </center>



http://www.angelfire.com/ab4/airplanes/P47_Thunderbolt/P47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:08 AM
I like the new patch except for the fact that planes seem like they are made of paper now as far as damage absorbtion goes. The 190's wings or rear fuesalage can be ripped off by only a few rounds, sometimes only one concerning the wings (but then this bug has been around for a long time). Land just a few hits on any fighter now and down she goes, feels arcade like to me and spoils Oleg's/1C's work on the detailed DM's IMHO.

<center>
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"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 11/11/0308:08AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:13 AM
kyrule2::
-- feels arcade like to me and spoils Oleg's/1C's work on
-- the detailed DM's IMHO.

Interesting similar thread at simhq, it seems the older aircraft in FB have older DMs, simpler...Fw190 is one of them.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:42 AM
I noticed the same things:

Choppier graphics, unresponsive stick (seems like the FFB/response would just disappear randomly).

Other notes: overall visibility (distance) seemed higher but the image quality was a bit fuzzier compared to leaked beta.

Sound: no landing gear sound (retract/extend) or flap on some planes (Ki84). Others mentioned same on 109s.

My overall impression on these items was a preference for 1.2 beta leaked.



Jet

http://www.jg53-pikas.de/IIE.Staffel-large.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:53 AM
Just curious with all this fuss about the newest Release Candidate. Has anyone tested the RC01.zip (FILES.SFS) originally released last Friday to compare it with yesterday's version? I can't see any of us going back to the V1.2b since the Mustang's WEP/BOOST isn't correctly modeled there, according to Oleg himself. I'm wondering what the difference is between the two flight models. What changes were made over the weekend? Those of you who are unhappy with yesterday's RC01_new.zip release may want to try last Friday's RC01.zip version and compare. Just a suggestion. I'm going to give them both a try myself as soon as I get a chance, but am no expert.

By the way, could Sky Chimp please give us his opinion of the P-51 flight model compared with his extensive library of actual test results? I'd be fascinated to read his comparison!

"He who hesitates is lost" - John Paul Jones, father of the American Navy

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:59 AM
wcat wrote:
- My AutoLeveler doesn't work with 1.2RC01, anyone
- else??



Yep - here too.

Bugger http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

RocketDog.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 11:18 AM
the LA-7 now seems to climb to 5000 meters as fast as the k4 on manual prop pitch. ....is this right? something fishy. mustang is too slow now but still flys nice. all planes seem easier to bring down with accurate fire. as it should be.jug should be tougher. they weakened it maybe

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 11:54 AM
turbodt wrote:
- two quick things
- 1- the new public beta runs choppy on my system
- compared to the smoothness of the leaked beta. I can
- see little hesitations when I roll a plane.
- 2- in both the leaked , and the public beta,
- sometimes the controls just momentarily stop
- working. I notice this when coming level from a
- dive. If I pull on the stick nothing happens for an
- instant or two. I feel myself waiting for it. I have
- a the Cougar Hotas. This problem is not apparent in
- 1.11. Neither is item 1
-
- my system (main stuff):
- winxp home edition sp1
- dx9b
- Abit IS7 mobo with latest bios
- 9500 pro with Cat3.7 (perfect mode)
- 786 mb Kingston ddr pc 3500 hyperx ram
- Cougar Hotas
-
- T

Thats a funny thing with the Cougar... mine is fine. Any other Cougar users get this problem?



"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:24 PM
@ Hobnail

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That was excellent!

Anybody who missed it, it's the little Bruce Lee clip on page 2. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Varro

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:08 PM
if the pony is a bit screwy at high level (I don't know - I've not downloaded RC yet) has someone emailed 1C to report that deficiency?

I recall Oleg writing that the 262 high alt bug slipped through becasue no-one put tracks to him through his requested method.

Same would apply to other bugs you may have noticed.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:18 PM
In fact go here to see what they have to say about threads v reporting.

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=ztxxf

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:46 PM
They seem more content to moan even though presented with a chance to help refine. Only a few are actully trying to test in this thread. These are the type of beta testers that help put out all those crappy titles we have come so use to...."dude whatever this sucks I'm going back to version 1.1 cause the pony was teh bomb".



bazzaah2 wrote:
- In fact go here to see what they have to say about
- threads v reporting.
-
- <a
- href="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-
- topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=ztxxf"
- target=_blank>http://forums.ubi.com/messages/messa
- ge_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=ztxx
- f</a>
-
-
<img
- src="http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_b
- anner_07.gif">
-
-
- She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:54 PM
I tend to agree.

So lesson here fellas is this - if you want high alt performance rectified please mail 1C per the instructions in thread I posted above.

I'm sure that at least some of you are resourceful enough to find other contexts in which to abuse each other.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif





http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 06:00 PM
I am in the process of making a track to compare the speeds of the MUstang as well as hard data to go with it for Oleg. The RC P-51 FM seem's very accurate, only except for the top speed. Other than that I have nothing to complain about with it.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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<center>
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</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 06:02 PM
It downloaded ..it works , my coputer works , I have B-17s & P-51s & you know I'm one happy camper!!!

<center<<Jim Dietz</center<<center<<a href="http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/victor800.jpg"target="_blank"<<img src="http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/victorthumbgrey.jpg"<</a<</center<<center<<font size="2pt"<Click Image to See Larger Color Version of 'To the Victor'</center<

adlabs6
11-11-2003, 07:33 PM
I've just finished a bit of play with 1.2RC, and it seems ok. I had the best sound results with the second "_" sound file, seemed smoother without volume spikes.

Planes are clearly different, though of course I didn't fly them all. The 190 is now mortal, P-40 stalls about the same I guess, just quick pull and I was spinning (but I was lucky to recover this time). I had good luck with the P-39, it was my primary plane to combat the blue team who apparently all picked the 109 with the 30mm nose cannon. I could hear them firing from miles away.

The dogfight server was smooth, no lag or warp problems. The only problems were several blue players who were content to BnZ over the red base. This may as well be called vulching IMO, as it's the same thing... shooting fish in a barrel. I still need to try a coop mission, but there are not many starting now. Maybe tonight.

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 07:40 PM
If it was my server ad, vulching is allowed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:31 PM
S!


My observations :

When subtle changes are needed in Flight Models, it seems that TOO DRASTIC of a change occurs instead. That is why these F/M's are allways flip/flopping back and forth.

The 1.2b ran smoother for me than 1.2RC. I was getting better frame rates with the beta version and less sound corruption. Not sure why.

_________


The Zero fills the catagory of most overmodeled plane in any flight sim.

*Rolls way too fast as speed increases over 225mph. The faster you go the less control you have. Controls stiffen across the board.

*Poor dive with speed limits-- wings would rip off (IRL). FB Zero can dive to 450mph!-in real life the plane would be uncontrollable!

*High altitude performance is way too strong over 20,000ft.


Saburo Sakai--(On the Zero's maneuverability)
Oh yes, the Zero was incredibly maneuverable, but not over about 250 mph. Above that speed, the stick just gets too heavy because the plane's control surfaces are so huge. You've seen those films of kamikaze plunging straight down into the water far from any U.S. ships, right? The kids in those planes probably put their planes into a dive way too early, and before they realized their mistake, they had too much speed built up to pull out of their dive. They probably died pulling desperately on the stick with all their strength. When I coached those kids [kamikaze pilots], I'd tell them, "If you've gotta die, you at least want to hit your target, right? If so, then go in low, skimming the water. Don't dive on your target. You lose control in a dive. You risk getting picked off by a fighter, but you've got better chance of hitting your target."


Saburo Sakai on the Mustang
vs (On the Zero)
During the war, I was convinced the Zero Model 21 was the best fighter plane anywhere. It was always number one with me. Then a few years ago, at Champlin, I had the chance to fly in a Mustang and take the controls for a while. What an incredible plane! It could do anything the Zero could, and many things the Zero can't, like a high-speed, spiraling dive. In the Zero, the stick would be too heavy to control the plane at those speeds. The Mustang's number one with me now, and I'm afraid the Zero's number two!


____________


*The Ki84 is more rugged than a 190 to bring down with 6 .50cals.
Japanese self-sealing fuel tanks and armor were of a poor design and inferior to that of most modern fighters of the day.

*High altitude performance is too strong over 25,000ft. The real Ki84 petered out at that altitude-small single stage compressor.

_________


Never thought I would say this, just being honest :

The 190 is TOO easy to bring down now with 6 .50cals. The 190 just needed a subtle change in D/M--not a drastic change.

The 109 is too tough from the 6 o'clock position to bring down now--.50cals do not shred the 109 like before. In real life they did.

Park yourself on the 6 of each plane and fire--see which holds up longer with the .50cals.

_________



Flew the Mustang up to around 8000m against BobCat (beta tester ?) last night in a 109k4. The 51 is so gutless now up high, it was all I could do to keep from getting shot down-totally defensive. The K4 is able to zoom climb away at will. That was with a 25% fuel load too in the 51.

The 1.2b version of the Mustang was 98-99% percent right. The 51 at low alt could NEVER turn with a Ki84 Frank or a Zero--I dont know who started that falsehood. The 109G2 flew circles around the 51 at low alt. The low alt performance of the 51 in the beta form was nothing spectacular and if you got in a turning fight you usually lost.

Now top end speed at alt is reduced way too much-another drastic change again. I am only able to get 672kph at 7500m and thats with a gentle dive and leveling out and 25% fuel. From a standing start-no dive-just level flying, I barely achieve 650kph @ 7600m with 25% fuel.

As a result of the speed reduction, dive acceleration and zoom climb back up are also reduced. The Mustang and the Jug were the king of the dive and the zoom climb that resulted from the dive acceleration(IRL).

Speed test RESULTS : -- How are they performed by FB testers?
Is there a standerized way for all of us to test and know for sure we are comparing results the same way ?

2 stage supercharger on auto-- I like being able to manually shift it. Did not hear any differance in engine at altitude with 1.2RC version. The 2nd stage shifted best at around 5500m in 1.2beta. The Jug needs to be able to manually shift the SC also.

_____________

The roll rates of the P40 and P47-D27 sre still to slow.
Initial elevator control of the P40 is rather sluggish as compared to the size of the elevator.


Just my observations.



_____________

Braveheart's William Wallace said it best:
"I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What will you do without freedom? Will you fight? Fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live, at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing, to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!"

Braveheart's William Wallace said it best:
"I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny. You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What will you do without freedom? Will you fight? Fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live, at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing, to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!"

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 09:58 PM
Choppier graphics here too!

A.

adlabs6
11-11-2003, 11:47 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- If it was my server ad, vulching is allowed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) Was kind of tough to find a server running 1.2RC, but there were a couple up. I'm off now to HL again.

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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 12:10 AM
wow, i didnt even know these where different patches... doh... man, how can they change so much in such little time... wow...

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 12:31 AM
nt.

Message Edited on 11/11/0311:33PM by Hunde_3.-JG.51

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 12:33 AM
BigKahuna, glad to see someone admit that the 190 is way too weak now. I already e-mailed Oleg about how weak the wings and the rear fuesalge section is currently. 190's were very tough IRL, now they are one of the most fragile planes in FB and that ain't right.

The simplified DM is to blame. If they keep it as a simplified DM I hope they find a balance between 1.11 and RC01/2. It was too tough before now it is too fragile.

I don't understand why Oleg/1C often go too far when trying to correct something. Anyway, I hope it is fixed.

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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 12:35 AM
i always get shot down with 190 in 1.11, i didnt think it was that hard... lol... wow.. heck, that damn biplane I153? i cant take that out with 20mm from a 109F, now thats crazy... or il2? etc... tb3? lol

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 01:10 AM
I briefly tried the patch last night; I thought the AI was much more erratic, weaving all over the place. Friendly AI could keep up with the enemy AI--Bf109F-2s winning a TnB fight with MiG3s. I had no chance however, as the MiGs could easily beat me even with BnZ tactics, outdiving, outclimbing, and outspeeding me. I thought it was quite different from 1.1

The game would not run today however, and no changes in the Setup program could get it to work. Even a new install patched to 1.2RC01 would not work.

So I reinstalled the game for a second time, and only patched it to 1.1 Now it works like a charm again, and I won't try 1.2RC01 again...

adlabs6
11-12-2003, 02:04 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- BigKahuna, glad to see someone admit that the 190 is
- way too weak now. I already e-mailed Oleg about how
- weak the wings and the rear fuesalge section is
- currently. 190's were very tough IRL, now they are
- one of the most fragile planes in FB and that ain't
- right.

I noticed this also. I can't think of a time when my 190 was broken in the rear fuselage before this RC patch. It was always a rare wing failure for me before. Rear fuselage failure has happened to me twice in a half hour today.

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