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Urist
02-22-2004, 01:24 PM
I remember way back in the day there was a 1946 expansion or something for Aces over the Pacific. Or maybe it was some other game..

I also remember seeing a show about what would have happened if the americans HAD gone ahead with the invasion of Japan. According to this show, the Japanese knew exactly where the Americans were planning to land and had built some very impressive defenses to hold them back and hoarded a huge number of aircraft for the final defense of Japan. Some of their more advanced types as well. It was a damn interesting (although melodramatic) show that sparked my interest to say the least.

I think it would be a neat expansion pack for IL2, or maybe some future game to include a 1946 scenario. Although completely fictional, it would give opportunities to have the later aircraft in the war, such as the Shiden-Kai or the F7F to flex some muscle. And a completely dynamic offline campaign that can go either way.

The Russians may have eventually gotten involved in the conflict as well. Although I dont know much about Russias front with Japan, but that is certainly a "Forgotten Battle" and I guess may be coming anyways.

Maybe the LA9 could make an appearance? The P80? The Japanese version of the 262? The little suicide planes the japanese had built could make some interesting online missions (offline it would make for a very short campaign). Imagine having to defend a carrier against a bunch of little rocket powered flying bombs.

I don't know if this is a political hot potato (especially since it never actually happened) but I know I would run out to the store and buy it.

If only to fly that amazing Shiden-Kai.

Urist
02-22-2004, 01:24 PM
I remember way back in the day there was a 1946 expansion or something for Aces over the Pacific. Or maybe it was some other game..

I also remember seeing a show about what would have happened if the americans HAD gone ahead with the invasion of Japan. According to this show, the Japanese knew exactly where the Americans were planning to land and had built some very impressive defenses to hold them back and hoarded a huge number of aircraft for the final defense of Japan. Some of their more advanced types as well. It was a damn interesting (although melodramatic) show that sparked my interest to say the least.

I think it would be a neat expansion pack for IL2, or maybe some future game to include a 1946 scenario. Although completely fictional, it would give opportunities to have the later aircraft in the war, such as the Shiden-Kai or the F7F to flex some muscle. And a completely dynamic offline campaign that can go either way.

The Russians may have eventually gotten involved in the conflict as well. Although I dont know much about Russias front with Japan, but that is certainly a "Forgotten Battle" and I guess may be coming anyways.

Maybe the LA9 could make an appearance? The P80? The Japanese version of the 262? The little suicide planes the japanese had built could make some interesting online missions (offline it would make for a very short campaign). Imagine having to defend a carrier against a bunch of little rocket powered flying bombs.

I don't know if this is a political hot potato (especially since it never actually happened) but I know I would run out to the store and buy it.

If only to fly that amazing Shiden-Kai.

necrobaron
02-22-2004, 01:45 PM
Well,some feel it's blasphemy to include "what-if?" scenarios and planes,but I think it's a cool idea. While I don't think there will be an "official" '46 Expansion, we are getting some '46,experimental,and barely flown planes in the Aces add-on. I think that opens the possibilities considerably....

"Not all who wander are lost."

Urist
02-22-2004, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
Well,some feel it's blasphemy to include "what-if?" scenarios and planes,but I think it's a cool idea. While I don't think there will be an "official" '46 Expansion, we _are_ getting some '46,experimental,and barely flown planes in the Aces add-on. I think that opens the possibilities considerably....

"Not all who wander are lost."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I had better take a course on 3D Modelling and start making a Shiden-Kai then.

necrobaron
02-22-2004, 02:27 PM
Go for it! You might want to talk to Luthier first. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It's not quite the same,but a Do-335 is in the works. In a way,it's kinda like a Deutsch version of the Shiden-Kai.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Urist
02-22-2004, 03:17 PM
Hrrrm, I can't even work up the initiative to make FB movies let alone start 3d modelling..

I'll put it on my list of things I would like to do but am far to lazy to ever get started on.

Finishing "Planescape: Torment" is also on that list.

LuftKuhMist
02-22-2004, 03:20 PM
The thing is that the actual planes of 1946 that folks imagine sooo "uber" weren't that much. The Horten for example would have terrible stability problems, some of which were intended to be corrected at gotha's resulting in the gotha P60. So even if 1946 was still a viable year for germany to produce planes, the HoIX wouldn't probably have been produced much. Take that plane more or less as a prototype that flew, like the BI1...

Messerschmitt built a more viable design for a jet fighter plane and testing was done later in the US, which led to the F86. FW intended to built the huckebein, Russia continued researching on the concept, which led to the Mig15. The FW huckebein had ALSO stability problems, which MiG solved with little fins on the wings and stretching the fuselage.

On paper all those wonder planes look great but we can only speculate as what their true combat carreer would have been. The Horten is incredibly futuristic for its time and has awesome performances... but was it a viable plane for war? The salamander was a dangerous plane to fly in even for experienced pilots and it was intended for Hitler youths. I predict that if the volksjager program would have been carried on in 46 the results would have been catastrophic.

I prefer flying tested and proved airplanes that history has proved failures or successes.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

Urist
02-22-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
The thing is that the actual planes of 1946 that folks imagine sooo "uber" weren't that much. The Horten for example would have terrible stability problems, some of which were intended to be corrected at gotha's resulting in the gotha P60. So even if 1946 was still a viable year for germany to produce planes, the HoIX wouldn't probably have been produced much. Take that plane more or less as a prototype that flew, like the BI1...

Messerschmitt built a more viable design for a jet fighter plane and testing was done later in the US, which led to the F86. FW intended to built the huckebein, Russia continued researching on the concept, which led to the Mig15. The FW huckebein had ALSO stability problems, which MiG solved with little fins on the wings and stretching the fuselage.

On paper all those wonder planes look great but we can only speculate as what their true combat carreer would have been. The Horten is incredibly futuristic for its time and has awesome performances... but was it a viable plane for war? The salamander was a dangerous plane to fly in even for experienced pilots and it was intended for Hitler youths. I predict that if the volksjager program would have been carried on in 46 the results would have been catastrophic.

I prefer flying tested and proved airplanes that history has proved failures or successes.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't so intersted in Germany as I was Japan. I don't think there was ever a chance any of Germanies neater toys would have seen wartime use. Besides, they got the 262, v1, v2 and 163, what other cool toys do they need?

I think the actual battle for Japan itself would have been a VERY bloody and hard fought war. And an intersting historic scenario for seeing what the Japanese had in store for the US when they set foot on the island had the Japanese decided not to surrender. Not just from the point of view of the aircraft that may have fought one another, which were mostly already in service. With the exception of the P80 and F7F on the american side I can't think of any that weren't already fighting. Although I am sure the Japanese had some toys that were barely air worthy.

owlwatcher
02-22-2004, 04:00 PM
The what if of 1946.
Bombers that crossed the atlantic. Maybe B-36. If England had fallen this may have been avaliable.

Japan's had some nice 1946 if's.
Just making availible 1946 jet engines I would find acceptiable.
B-36's bombing Germany with US Navy figher escort.
Some battles set around the Panama canal?
Next gen of USNavy planes, A1 skyraiders , F8 Bearcats.
Just idea's.

VW-IceFire
02-22-2004, 05:47 PM
We've got most of the elements on the axis side for a true 1946 battle already which is going to be interesting. Apparently we're getting a Spitfire Mark 22 which is also more of that late 1945 crowd that would allow for some neat what-if's. Not the PTO but still some what-if possibilities.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

tfu_iain1
02-23-2004, 08:04 AM
japan is an island; air campaign would have been short - the japanese navy was shattered, and in 46the combined US and Royal Navy would be able to blockade japan very effectively... either they would try a last stand naval battle (allied naval air power would waste them) US navy doctrine style, or a UK style deprivation of sea access (WW1 style- keep enemy navy in port so you dont have to fight it)

basicly, japan wouldnt have had any fuel or strategic resources to fight an air war on any competitive scale. Oil, coal, steel, rubber, aluminium and productive capacity won the war.
(as wqas said, apparently japanese had strategic stockpiles- i would have to look into this. if there were, the allies would have known about them during post-war reconstruction)
the Japanese would probably have tried to sue for peace anyway but the allies wanted a totally unconditional surrender. Atom bomb just finished it quickly, at least cost to the allies and made the Russians sit up, even if Stalin wasn't too fazed.

tho, as a propeller head, a '46 senario would be cool, granted. i mean, all those zany zany planes....

WOLFMondo
02-23-2004, 08:10 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Apparently we're getting a Spitfire Mark 22 QUOTE]

Wow! Dya know when?

Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

Gato-Loco
02-23-2004, 10:11 AM
Hummm.... I think I rather see efforts targeted towards creating add-ons of real scenarios: the med and Italy, the Sino-Japanese war in the 30's, the Spanish civil war.. and even the WWII Pacific.

LuftKuhMist
02-23-2004, 12:16 PM
I agree... The axis was done in 45, you can't fight the world alone, especially russia.

I'd rather have obscure conflicts also than what if with all those flashy planes that never saw combat...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

WUAF_Badsight
02-23-2004, 03:51 PM
i like to use FB to do online air combat

id rather have flashy planes that seen no combat over obscure conflicts

LuftKuhMist
02-24-2004, 02:07 PM
Can't wait for your P80, eh?

Must be fun having 100 planes and flying just one.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
02-24-2004, 02:34 PM
wow...

''I live to own online, gimme my uber wannabe planes or I'll come back whining''

yikes

a XP-80 but NO Pe3?

??? I say

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

WUAF_Badsight
02-24-2004, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
Can't wait for your P80, eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wouldnt know what thats like you german imitating D-Head

i will be shooting my share of P-80's down in the 262 just as i have done to Me262s in my Bf109 G2

more plane = more fun ....... not less

try flying different planes .. its fun

[This message was edited by WUAF_Badsight on Tue February 24 2004 at 10:12 PM.]

Urist
02-24-2004, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tfu_iain1:
japan is an island; air campaign would have been short - the japanese navy was shattered, and in 46the combined US and Royal Navy would be able to blockade japan very effectively... either they would try a last stand naval battle (allied naval air power would waste them) US navy doctrine style, or a UK style deprivation of sea access (WW1 style- keep enemy navy in port so you dont have to fight it)

basicly, japan wouldnt have had any fuel or strategic resources to fight an air war on any competitive scale. Oil, coal, steel, rubber, aluminium and productive capacity won the war.
(as wqas said, apparently japanese had strategic stockpiles- i would have to look into this. if there were, the allies would have known about them during post-war reconstruction)
the Japanese would probably have tried to sue for peace anyway but the allies wanted a totally unconditional surrender. Atom bomb just finished it quickly, at least cost to the allies and made the Russians sit up, even if Stalin wasn't too fazed.

tho, as a propeller head, a '46 senario would be cool, granted. i mean, all those zany zany planes....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it would have been short (the air campaign)..

But incredibly brutal, even if it was somewhat one sided.

Ob.Emann
02-25-2004, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftKuhMist:
The thing is that the actual planes of 1946 that folks imagine sooo "uber" weren't that much. The Horten for example would have terrible stability problems, some of which were intended to be corrected at gotha's resulting in the gotha P60. So even if 1946 was still a viable year for germany to produce planes, the HoIX wouldn't probably have been produced much. Take that plane more or less as a prototype that flew, like the BI1...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The RLM ordered about 40 Gotha 229's to be produced for the JG//100. But the capturing of Gotha's facility in April '45 prevented any further production.

Anyways, I for one would love to see a well-done and realistic 1946 addon. I've always found Germany's project aircraft that were fairly close to production and were given serious development (i.e. not just ment to keep the designers out of the Wehrmacht) very fascinating. Although many I think would absolutley thumb their nose at a '46 addon. People freaked out enough with the Go229 and P80 inclusion into Ace.

Der Oberst (PROMOTION!)

Willey
02-26-2004, 08:31 AM
First of all, in three weeks we should have the Ace Expansion Pack that contains some '46 planes like the P-80 and Go-229.

2nd: Yep, it was an Addon for AotP. It contained the F-7F Tigercat, F-8F Bearcat, F2G Corsair, P-80 Shooting Star, Ki-83, J7W Shinden and the Kikka ("jap 262") IIRC.