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View Full Version : Do Templars know how to fool the Eagle Vision?



SirZeel
02-08-2014, 10:26 PM
After completing ACIV, I had the will to restart from the first AC doing only the main story.
This helped me a lot on understanding it more... but a thing made me think: we all know Lucy was a Templar.
She always was. She's never been an Assassin. But when we look at her with our Eagle Vision, we see her in blue [friend aura] and not in red [enemy aura]. This happens the first time in AC, at the very end of the game, and in the whole ACII and ACB. So either the Eagle Vision is based on what the possessor thinks [but I highly doubt it] or Templars know how to hide themself from it.

And now a question: do you remember the red path on ACB that went from the Villa to the fountain? Does anyone know what was that? Why was it red [like the enemy aura]? If it was the path traveled by her, shouldn't it be blue?

souNdwAve89
02-08-2014, 10:54 PM
I forgot which video it was, but one of the devs said that the red footprints you see in Brotherhood was used to guide the player or game test back to the villa. Whether you want to believe them or not is up to you. I sort of do, but I can't help but think it was made with another intention in mine.

LoyalACFan
02-08-2014, 10:57 PM
And now a question: do you remember the red path on ACB that went from the Villa to the fountain? Does anyone know what was that? Why was it red [like the enemy aura]? If it was the path traveled by her, shouldn't it be blue?

This was confirmed to be there just to show the player how to get back to the villa back door. It's got nothing to do with Lucy (though all the fans obviously thought it was a clue of some kind since it was never explained). I think it roughly traced the path Ezio traveled after he was shot, so maybe it was supposed to be some kind of bleeding effect thing tracing his blood trail.

But as for Desmond not seeing Lucy in red... I think Eagle Vision only shows people in red who are going to actively try and hurt you. I think Lucy actually did genuinely have feelings for Desmond and she wasn't trying to harm him, just use him for the Templars' goals. Or maybe it was just because Desmond's Eagle Vision wasn't fully developed by the time Lucy died.

SirZeel
02-08-2014, 11:04 PM
But as for Desmond not seeing Lucy in red... I think Eagle Vision only shows people in red who are going to actively try and hurt you. I think Lucy actually did genuinely have feelings for Desmond and she wasn't trying to harm him, just use him for the Templars' goals. Or maybe it was just because Desmond's Eagle Vision wasn't fully developed by the time Lucy died.

Actively try? Mmm... guards aren'r trying to hurt you if you don't start first and I don't think you have to improve your Eagle Vision.
But let me ask another thing that could maybe solve the question.

Does Connor sees Haytham in blue when they are cooperating? I know for sure he sees him red while they are fighting, but can't remember the former.

LoyalACFan
02-08-2014, 11:11 PM
Actively try? Mmm... guards aren'r trying to hurt you if you don't start first and I don't think you have to improve your Eagle Vision.

Guards will start shoving you around and might even attack you if you so much as bump into them. In restricted areas and on rooftops, they'll attack on sight. I just mean that it highlights people who are willing to fight you with little to no provocation.


Does Connor sees Haytham in blue when they are cooperating?

Dunno, but it's kind of a moot point. It's basically the same thing as Desmond and Lucy. One's an Assassin, one's a Templar, but they aren't trying to hurt each other, so Desmond/Connor doesn't see their companion in red because they don't pose a threat in the moment.

frodrigues55
02-08-2014, 11:13 PM
I see the "Eagle vision" as some sort of instinct/perception sense that the Assassin's learn how to master and use. It's not a magical power that will tell you who is good or who is bad.

Lucy managed to earn Desmond's trust, so his senses told him she was a friend. His instincts didn't work for her. She fooled him, not the eagle vision per say.

SirZeel
02-08-2014, 11:22 PM
Guards will start shoving you around and might even attack you if you so much as bump into them. In restricted areas and on rooftops, they'll attack on sight. I just mean that it highlights people who are willing to fight you with little to no provocation.

Well, about restricted areas... they are pretty right. You aren't meant to be there.
By the way, you see Vidic in red at the end of AC. He never tried to harm you physically.



Dunno, but it's kind of a moot point. It's basically the same thing as Desmond and Lucy.

This is exactly the point.
We know you can see red the enemy, but what about the enemy that you trust or you work with for a common purpose? If Connor sees Haytham in blue, then we know that the Eagle Vision work is based on what the possessor knows/thinks. If he sees Haytham in red, then we know it's some sort of power that can discern good from evil.

We never had the chance to see Lucy as enemy.


I see the "Eagle vision" as some sort of instinct/perception sense that the Assassin's learn how to master and use. It's not a magical power that will tell you who is good or who is bad.

Lucy managed to earn Desmond's trust, so his senses told him she was a friend. His instincts didn't work for her. She fooled him, not the eagle vision per say.

So you think that it's based on what Desmond knows?

LoyalACFan
02-08-2014, 11:28 PM
We know you can see red the enemy, but what about the enemy that you trust or you work with for a common purpose?

Then they aren't perceived as a threat. Like I've said, the people you see in red are about a hair's breadth away from coming at you with a pointy object. Haytham did not pose any danger to Connor while they were hunting Church. Lucy didn't pose any danger to Desmond while on the run from Abstergo.

I sort of see Eagle Vision as a way that the Assassin gauges the intentions of people around him, and if the they are safe to be around, they show up in blue or white. If they're dangerous, they show up in red.

SirZeel
02-08-2014, 11:30 PM
Then they aren't perceived as a threat. Like I've said, the people you see in red are about a hair's breadth away from coming at you with a pointy object. Haytham did not pose any danger to Connor while they were hunting Church. Lucy didn't pose any danger to Desmond while on the run from Abstergo.

I sort of see Eagle Vision as a way that the Assassin gauges the intentions of people around him, and if the they are safe to be around, they show up in blue or white. If they're dangerous, they show up in red.

Sorry, I edited my last post so I think you could have missed this sentence.
"By the way, you see Vidic in red at the end of AC. He never tried to harm you physically."

frodrigues55
02-08-2014, 11:32 PM
So you think that it's based on what Desmond knows?

It's just based on their senses and perceptions once they are focused. When the gamer activates "eagle vision", it's actually making the protagonist study the enviroment based on their senses. They identify hiding spots, look through the details to see whoever represents a threat, help or is acting like the person to tail/eavesdrop.

Desmond didn't have his senses and instincts fully matured, so he was probably not going to "see through things" as easy as the Assassin's. He trusted Lucy, so he wouldn't see much beyond that. It's not just the game telling you who to trust, it goes hand in hand with the assassins.

SixKeys
02-08-2014, 11:34 PM
The way I perceive Eagle Vision is that it gives an assassin a heightened sense of danger. It doesn't exactly tell you who's "good or bad", just how likely they are to harm you if provoked. There are several other examples in the games where people who later turn out to be traitors don't show up red in Eagle Vision. Soldiers are always likely to harm you if you provoked. Allies who start out with seemingly good intentions don't show any signs of aggression, hence they don't show up red until the moment they turn around and threaten you.

LoyalACFan
02-08-2014, 11:34 PM
Sorry, I edited my last post so I think you could have missed this sentence.
"By the way, you see Vidic in red at the end of AC. He never tried to harm you physically."

He kind of did though, he said he was going to put Desmond in a coma and extract the memories if he didn't cooperate. That, and he was planning to kill him once they got the information they needed, whereas Haytham was hoping to "save" Connor and turn him into a Templar and Lucy probably wanted to spare Desmond since she apparently had feelings for him like she had for Clay.

dxsxhxcx
02-08-2014, 11:35 PM
Sorry, I edited my last post so I think you could have missed this sentence.
"By the way, you see Vidic in red at the end of AC. He never tried to harm you physically."

It's not a secret that Desmond was pretty uncomfortable with his situation in AC1 (he express this at the beginning of the game if I'm not wrong), that's probably the reason why he saw Vidic as a threat

LoyalACFan
02-08-2014, 11:35 PM
The way I perceive Eagle Vision is that it gives an assassin a heightened sense of danger. It doesn't exactly tell you who's "good or bad", just how likely they are to harm you if provoked. There are several other examples in the games where people who later turn out to be traitors don't show up red in Eagle Vision. Soldiers are always likely to harm you if you provoked. Allies who start out with seemingly good intentions don't show any signs of aggression, hence they don't show up red until the moment they turn around and threaten you.

This is basically what I'm trying to say, but looking back I kind of muddled it up in the way I presented it. Sorry if I confused you OP.

SixKeys
02-08-2014, 11:37 PM
Does the Sage ever show up in red in AC4? That would kinda mess with my theory, considering he was pretty unstable and dangerous the whole time.

SirZeel
02-08-2014, 11:38 PM
It's just based on their senses and perceptions once they are focused. When the gamer activates "eagle vision", it's actually making the protagonist study the enviroment based on their senses. They identify hiding spots, look through the details to see whoever represents a threat, help or is acting like the person to tail/eavesdrop.

Desmond didn't have his senses and instincts fully matured, so he was probably not going to "see through things" as easy as the Assassin's. He trusted Lucy, so he wouldn't see much beyond that. It's not just the game telling you who to trust, it goes hand in hand with the assassins.

That could be an interesting point of view.
Are these your thoughts or it's actually proven?


Does the Sage ever show up in red in AC4? That would kinda mess with my theory, considering he was pretty unstable and dangerous the whole time.

Nope.
Yellow when you have to catch him, blue when you reach him on the island where he becomes a captain.


This is basically what I'm trying to say, but looking back I kind of muddled it up in the way I presented it. Sorry if I confused you OP.

I'm confusing myself pretty hard while trying to understand the two stories AC is narrating. :confused:
That's why I'm trying to fully understand any point, and your contribute was precious to my knowledge of it.

SirZeel
02-08-2014, 11:47 PM
He kind of did though, he said he was going to put Desmond in a coma and extract the memories if he didn't cooperate. That, and he was planning to kill him once they got the information they needed, whereas Haytham was hoping to "save" Connor and turn him into a Templar and Lucy probably wanted to spare Desmond since she apparently had feelings for him like she had for Clay.

Woah. That's 100% right.
How the hell do you guys can think all these things while I can't even remember if Desmond's last name is Mile or Miles?

frodrigues55
02-08-2014, 11:48 PM
That could be an interesting point of view.
Are these your thoughts or it's actually proven?.

I don't know if they ever explained it, it's just the way I have always understood it :p I didn't put much thought into other possibilities, but I didn't see anything that contradicted my understanding so far.

SirZeel
02-08-2014, 11:54 PM
I don't know if they ever explained it, it's just the way I have always understood it :p I didn't put much thought into other possibilities, but I didn't see anything that contradicted my understanding so far.

I was just trying to understand if this was one of the many things I missed on the story or they were your thoughts.
Thanks a lot for them.

Edit: how is my english so bad? >_> Need to edit half of my posts.

frodrigues55
02-08-2014, 11:56 PM
I was just trying to understand if this was one of the many things I missed on the story or it was your thoughts.
Thanks a lot for them.

No problem!

They briefly mention something about it on Black Flag to explain why Edward has the Eagle Vision. It doesn't directly adress your doubts, though.

travilanche
02-09-2014, 11:01 AM
I have been replaying ACIII and am at the part where conner and Haytham are allies. So I will check and post for sure. But congrats on being able to play ACI over again. I tried recently and it is unplayable after playing the other titles.

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 06:21 PM
Lucy was an Assassin though, she was planted into Abstergo by William. During her time there, she defected and was repurposed to double cross the Assassins.

ShoryukenMan
02-10-2014, 12:22 AM
In my honest opinion, the whole Lucy being a Templar thing was completely botched and thrown in at the last second. The reason I believe this is because we didn't even learn of it until Revelations. Four games in... and... oh, wait... We didn't even learn it in the actual game itself, but instead a dlc that came later. Honestly I would've completely ignored that plot point and pretend it never happened, but AC3 kept reminding me that it did happen.

JumpInTheFire13
02-10-2014, 12:52 AM
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the AC series isn't bulletproof and there are some mistakes in its story..?

MnemonicSyntax
02-10-2014, 01:14 AM
In my honest opinion, the whole Lucy being a Templar thing was completely botched and thrown in at the last second. The reason I believe this is because we didn't even learn of it until Revelations. Four games in... and... oh, wait... We didn't even learn it in the actual game itself, but instead a dlc that came later. Honestly I would've completely ignored that plot point and pretend it never happened, but AC3 kept reminding me that it did happen.

Hints were dropped in 2, Brotherhood and the curtain pulled back in Revelations. Even without the DLC, from the end of Brotherhood there was something going on there.

SixKeys
02-10-2014, 03:06 AM
Hints were dropped in 2, Brotherhood and the curtain pulled back in Revelations. Even without the DLC, from the end of Brotherhood there was something going on there.

Hints were definitely in Brotherhood as that was to be Kristen Bell's last game, so they already had that idea in mind by then. But any "hints" in AC2 are just retroactively imagined by fans IMO. AC was originally a much simpler story, the Lucy subplot was only introduced when they decided to make it an annual series.

LoyalACFan
02-10-2014, 03:31 AM
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the AC series isn't bulletproof and there are some mistakes in its story..?

Of course (looking at you, "the sun your son") but I think Eagle Vision is pretty well defined.