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Hans684
02-08-2014, 07:13 PM
Nothing to do with the series:

No mention of leaps of faith historicly done by assassins, conclustion: It's unrealistic and have nothing to do with the series nor assassins.
No mention of hidden blades historicly used by assassins, conclustion: It's unrealistic and have nothing to do with the series nor assassins.
They do have a code of conduct but it's not [properly] known(the creed from the series), there for it has nothing to do with the series nor assassins.
They used disguises, so the used in the games robes/couts have nothing to do with the series nor assassins.
The big arsenal of weapons have nothing to do with assassins. They used a dagger, they primarily carried a dagger tipped with poison.
Beyond early 15th century and it's not AC anymore.
It unrealistic to survive a jump from the topp of a building(unless it not tall), so jumping of tall building will gett you killed. Unrealistic.
No Animus, no Modern Day, no Fist Civ and their artifacts, Urealistic.
They where trained in combat but not one assassin single handenly killing an army, Unrealistic.
Nothing called master assassin, it's unrealistic.
No mention of female assassins, there for it has nothing to do with the series nor assassin. Unrealistic.
Assassins appear in many role-playing games and video games, especially massively multiplayer online games. The assassin character class is a common feature of many such games, usually specializing in single combat and stealth skills, often combined to defeat an opponent without exposing the assassin to counterattack. The Assassin's Creed video game series portrays a heavily fictionalised Ḥashshāshīn order, which has expanded beyond its Levantine confines and has existed throughout recorded history.
No fast and cheap investigation like AC1, but years of work.

Something do do with the series:

The assassin order itself died around 1275, after that the remaining assassin become mercenaries or worked for other people. The last true assassin properly died in the early 15th century, prompting the brotherhood to fade into history as a result of lost tradition, customs, and ideals. Beyond early 15th century and it not AC anymore.
They used disguises, something this series need to work with.
Assassinations were primarily carried out with a dagger, which was sometimes tipped with poison.
They used a way of combat called Eqestriansm and Furusiyya.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furusiyya, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrianism.
They where trained in combat but not one assassin single handenly killing an army
The origins of the Assassins can be traced back to just before the First Crusade, around 1080. There has been much difficulty finding out much information about the origins of the Assassins because most early sources are either written by enemies of the order or based on legends, or both. Most sources dealing with the order's inner working were destroyed with the capture of Alamut, the Assassins' headquarters, by the Mongols in 1256. However, it is possible to trace the beginnings of the cult back to its first Grandmaster, Hassan-i Sabbah (1050s–1124). Any earlyer and it's not AC anymore.
Their "master assassin" or just assassin who does most of the killing is called hashshashin. Any other name and it's not a true assassin. Just a pop culture hashshashin called master assassin.
They also "worked" or lived close the assassination target and spent years before the assassination.
The hashshashin also have to eat, sleep, drink and use the bathroom.
No more health bar, there is a limb system. Example your leg gets badly hurt in combat, there for you will be unable to free-run.
One it kill if you hit a critical part like the trouth, heart or head.
Being hurt will affect you, you have to go use medicine and all that but you don't gett he health back at full seconds after. It takes time, just like reality.
If you die in the game it's back to the beginning.
There is also a weight system, adrenaline system, light/dark system, clothing system, limb system, realitic wanted system ect...
If you are hurt in combat you will also gett weaker, slower ect...
The game uses real time, 1 hour in game is 1 hour in real life.
The charecters only speak their native languages but it's a game so the option if sub will be there.

I have properly missed some points, either way read yourself, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins.

Conclusion: The series is fantasy assassin series who getts most points wrong, it should reboot itself and be renamed to Ḥashshāshīn. Most likely have some mistakes but if you want to correct them yourself, please do. For those who want a realistic and true AC I want this or nothing. Everyone else can make want they want out of it.

Also remember, games is not games they have to treated like a simulator. That is what a game is, a wise man once said reality is more fun than a game.

Some questions, would any of you play it? Does it sound fun? It it to challenging?

AdamPearce
02-08-2014, 08:12 PM
Nice one. ;0

MnemonicSyntax
02-08-2014, 08:17 PM
I agree, great post.

Hans684
02-08-2014, 08:29 PM
I agree, great post.


Nice one. ;0

Well, this is surprising. Never tought someone would agree, people usually say realism don't have anything to do with games. Either way if fans want i realistic AC, then i want this. Not half game and half realism only to give challenge, fear and all that for the sake of it. I want it at level max or not at all.

MnemonicSyntax
02-08-2014, 08:40 PM
Well, this is surprising. Never tought someone would agree, people usually say realism don't have anything to do with games. Either way if fans want i realistic AC, then i want this. Not half game and half realism only to give challenge, fear and all that for the sake of it. I want it at level max or not at all.

I don't agree because I necessarily want it (though I'd play it) I agree because people cry "realism!" "weighted system!" "light/dark!" "fatigue system!" "being a Hulk!" "fighting ants!" yadda yadda yadda but when things like the leap of faith are brought up, it's suddenly okay to have that.

Better make the Assassin need to eat, sleep, drink and use the bathroom too.

Landruner
02-08-2014, 08:46 PM
Well, this is surprising. Never tought someone would agree, people usually say realism don't have anything to do with games. Either way if fans want i realistic AC, then i want this. Not half game and half realism only to give challenge, fear and all that for the sake of it. I want it at level max or not at all.

I perhaps missed it at the beginning, but no more unrealistic health bar and just one hit kill (LOL) would be (more realistic):p - You may get hurt, but in this case your character feels the pain and he is slower which results to his death by one blow kill - Note: notice that I wrote HE (because no unrealistic she assassin).:rolleyes: Foes AI is pushed to the extreme realistic dynamic, meaning that foes no longer fight you in flock that you can destroy one by one, while some still do fight you in order to keep you focused of them, some other more vicious go away far from the fight location point, and then ambush you at distance with some ranged weapons to take you down like real in real life, which does not give you any chance of survival at all. (more realistic)
Post to the game you are game over (more realistic) :Dand you have to start over from the beginning like the old school arcade games (more realistic) :eek:!!!

Hans684
02-08-2014, 08:49 PM
I don't agree because I necessarily want it (though I'd play it) I agree because people cry "realism!" "weighted system!" "light/dark!" "fatigue system!" "being a Hulk!" "fighting ants!" yadda yadda yadda but when things like the leap of faith are brought up, it's suddenly okay to have that.

Better make the Assassin need to eat, sleep, drink and use the bathroom too.

Understandble and thanks.

Forgot to add eat, sleep, drink and use the bathroom. Will do shortly. Anyway i agree on the example of "realism", "wight system" etc.... I did this for several reasons, all the crying you mentioned and if they are going to make a realistic and true to the bone AC, then this or nothing.

Landruner
02-08-2014, 08:53 PM
I don't agree because I necessarily want it (though I'd play it) I agree because people cry "realism!" "weighted system!" "light/dark!" "fatigue system!" "being a Hulk!" "fighting ants!" yadda yadda yadda but when things like the leap of faith are brought up, it's suddenly okay to have that.

Better make the Assassin need to eat, sleep, drink and use the bathroom too.

Actually an AC / RPG spin off with realistic survival mod (like some modders did for FO3 FONV or Skyrim) will be great. I mean why not a RPG with this kind of features as long as it is a spin off of the series?.

MnemonicSyntax
02-08-2014, 08:57 PM
Actually an AC / RPG spin off with realistic survival mod (like some modders did for FO3 FONV or Skyrim) will be great. I mean why not a RPG with this kind of features as long as it is a spin off of the series?.

Sure, while we're at it, let's spend several real life years tracking and following an assassin target. Because, you know, realism.

Landruner
02-08-2014, 09:07 PM
Sure, while we're at it, let's spend several real life years tracking and following an assassin target. Because, you know, realism.

You are right, we have to focus on the realism of our lives and consider that video games as some pieces of entertainment only.
Life is already hard some some, so, I understand that they don't need to make it harder while playing their games. After all, they are just video games made for fun, not for enduring extra pain in some sadomasochist ways. However; I understand that some like more challenging game-play as well and it is okay to me as long as they are optional and things are not pushed to the extreme.

Note: since you mention the years for just getting one target (more realistic) - We forgot to mention that the time in the game has to be 1:1 meaning one hour of our life in one hour in the game (more realistic)

LoyalACFan
02-08-2014, 11:23 PM
Also remember, games is not games they have to treated like a simulator.

This is an irreconcilable difference between you and I and our views on game design. Realism can be present without turning the game into a simulation of real life, but when your game gets bogged down by realism for the sake of it, it fails.

Hans684
02-08-2014, 11:43 PM
This is an irreconcilable difference between you and I and our views on game design. Realism can be present without turning the game into a simulation of real life, but when your game gets bogged down by realism for the sake of it, it fails.

Not my view nor words. Read the previous posts and you will see, it's AssassinHMS who want a "realistic" and "true" AC. But if Ubisoft consider making a realistic AC, then this is the way I want it or not at all. Not the kinder garden "realistic" way but at level max. It's AssassinHMS who want the series to go back to a the simulator way, I just pulled it to level max.

Secondly I never want stuff "for the sake of it", just becouse you are agains something doesn't mean it's done for the sake of it. Would like to add that I wasn't totally serious either too begin with.

AherasSTRG
02-09-2014, 12:03 AM
Because when I come home from campus, I 'd prefer a driving simulation to a Need for Speed game, a game about a police officer signing documents to the next Arkham, I 'd prefer to spend dozens of hours in front of my computer for a single moment of entertainment or action to an AC game that thrills me from the very moment that loading ends.

http://www.excalibur-publishing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/police_sim_2_largebox.jpg

OR

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Batman-Arkham-Origins-Box-Art.jpg

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 03:11 AM
This is an irreconcilable difference between you and I and our views on game design. Realism can be present without turning the game into a simulation of real life, but when your game gets bogged down by realism for the sake of it, it fails.

Some really smart fella said the quote in my sig. However, I think some of this thread is meant as satire. Han's post below gives me that vibe.


Not my view nor words. Read the previous posts and you will see, it's AssassinHMS who want a "realistic" and "true" AC. But if Ubisoft consider making a realistic AC, then this is the way I want it or not at all. Not the kinder garden "realistic" way but at level max. It's AssassinHMS who want the series to go back to a the simulator way, I just pulled it to level max.

Secondly I never want stuff "for the sake of it", just becouse you are agains something doesn't mean it's done for the sake of it. Would like to add that I wasn't totally serious either too begin with.

Landruner
02-09-2014, 03:40 AM
This is an irreconcilable difference between you and I and our views on game design. Realism can be present without turning the game into a simulation of real life, but when your game gets bogged down by realism for the sake of it, it fails.

By all respects - I do no think that Hans was being serious and his thread is not serious in appearance and it is a sarcastic joke in the first place and it is actually a very great thread as a reminder of what some of us could sound like or just are or are not toward that franchise - however; where Hans nails it and it is the most scariest AND serious part of his thread, his thread is simply a smart recall and reflection on ourselves regarding our wishes, exigences and disillusions with that franchise and what is concretely realizable and where in the bottom line betteen fantasy and realism- at least that the way I took it and we should take it.

Landruner
02-09-2014, 03:56 AM
Not my view nor words. Read the previous posts and you will see, it's AssassinHMS who want a "realistic" and "true" AC. But if Ubisoft consider making a realistic AC, then this is the way I want it or not at all. Not the kinder garden "realistic" way but at level max. It's AssassinHMS who want the series to go back to a the simulator way, I just pulled it to level max.

Secondly I never want stuff "for the sake of it", just becouse you are agains something doesn't mean it's done for the sake of it. Would like to add that I wasn't totally serious either too begin with.

More seriously and I am dropping the sarcastic joke and ideas I made from my previous posts above this one:

I believe that it is a difference between some interpretations of degree of game-play there - I always understood that some part of the assassin mission design of AC should get some more work, innovation, and deeper concept in their design regarding the social stealth and environment stealth and the combat system and some differences in the level design regarding in which situation (missions) the player (character) is.

I think that some manifested a deeper concept regarding the mission design - However; the interpretation and trolling of those coming with some ideas of concept turned them like they were crazy masochistic hard core gamers, which was not always the case, however; that image obviously stood for some of us, and HMS is one of them. I believe it is. I believe that he won't have any fun playing a game with such realistic features, i am sure he won't.
Perhaps I am wrong, but i do not think HMS really wants to turn any AC game into a rage & quite hard core game. He just want make the concept a bit deeper, which is not a bad thing per se.

Personally, I do not what t oplay a hard core crazy game full of realism while i am playing a fantasy game, and i do not that to happen neither, and i know enough that it won't happen from Ubisoft especially with that AC franchise - However; some ideas of game-play from HSM and some others are not bad at all and they should be considered and improved and then worked over in order to make them into some more elaborated and smoother game-play features (fixed or optional) for the next ACs.

AC series has a lot of potential to make it higher than what the actual game-play is, so why not getting deeper in the concept and working it from scratch and start over something new. That is all what i would like the Dev to consider for the next coming-up - give us assassin guys or girls, but not just characters wannabe or "extras" that just handle the title of assassin creed for increasing the sale of the game.

(Note: when I mention something new I am just referring to the assassin parts of the game and assassin missions and their designs, not the rest of the game-play).

Hans684
02-09-2014, 11:19 AM
More seriously and I am dropping the sarcastic joke and ideas I made from my previous posts above this one:

Here is my other AC idea, it's the counter part of this idea. No need to drop anything, becouse i did not mean absolutely everything. Who would play an AC that realitic? Almost nobody. While there is some good ideas i between, not everything is supposed to be taken seriously. Some but not all. The counter part: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/821900-AC-improvements-casual-and-hardcore-solution


I believe that it is a difference between some interpretations of degree of game-play there - I always understood that some part of the assassin mission design of AC should get some more work, innovation, and deeper concept in their design regarding the social stealth and environment stealth and the combat system and some differences in the level design regarding in which situation (missions) the player (character) is.

Scanning for weak points only for entry to fell like an assassin is linear and not totally open ended. People speak of the assassin part and what they are...yet they forget that the Templars is just as importand becouse the assassins have been fighting them for tusends of years. For a good open ended assassination mission, Ubisoft should borrow from Hitman < that is an assassination game. You seach, you plan, you strike and none of it linear, unlike the seach for weak points "planed" "open ended" assassation missions of most of AC1.


I think that some manifested a deeper concept regarding the mission design - However; the interpretation and trolling of those coming with some ideas of concept turned them like they were crazy masochistic hard core gamers, which was not always the case, however; that image obviously stood for some of us, and HMS is one of them. I believe it is. I believe that he won't have any fun playing a game with such realistic features, i am sure he won't.
Perhaps I am wrong, but i do not think HMS really wants to turn any AC game into a rage & quite hard core game. He just want make the concept a bit deeper, which is not a bad thing per se.

Not everything is to be taken seriously, the counter part is the idea I will stand for no matter what. This crazy idea is for people who scream realism and says it's far better that treating a game like a game. The counter part, the fallout of games. A SMG(Self Made Game) you make the difficulty yourself by choosing the skills you want, it open ended, your choice, your way and your game. That is my only idea i fully support, not this crazy realistic one. It's there for people who want realistic. He is right some ings need an improvement and i agree he properly don't what to play such a realistic AC. If so, then he should uderstand every one who is totally agains him. I'm not totally agains him, just some part(gameplay wise) but concept and fake "realism" I don't support. It limits what AC is capable of, it destroys it potential. Think about an AC game in The Golden Age of Piracy but without pirates, naval, open ocean ect... The entire game would be underdeveloped. No it's not ba with deeper but destroying the potential is an other matter.


Personally, I do not what t oplay a hard core crazy game full of realism while i am playing a fantasy game, and i do not that to happen neither, and i know enough that it won't happen from Ubisoft especially with that AC franchise - However; some ideas of game-play from HSM and some others are not bad at all and they should be considered and improved and then worked over in order to make them into some more elaborated and smoother game-play features (fixed or optional) for the next ACs.

I don't want either but if someone speak of a realistic AC, then this is what it would be. If not it's not realistic, then it's fake realism. As said, I agree some ideas is good but not all, improvement is good. Spoke with him some time ago, I'm willing to play his AC idea but it's far from realistic.


AC series has a lot of potential to make it higher than what the actual game-play is, so why not getting deeper in the concept and working it from scratch and start over something new. That is all what i would like the Dev to consider for the next coming-up - give us assassin guys or girls, but not just characters wannabe or "extras" that just handle the title of assassin creed for increasing the sale of the game.

Indeed it has, that's why it should learn from Hitman in terms of smoot assassinations, investigatinons & open ended. It should also take advantage of history, history is bigger than just a background. By only playing an "pure" assassin all the time would be limiting.


(Note: when I mention something new I am just referring to the assassin parts of the game and assassin missions and their designs, not the rest of the game-play).

I understand, the extra game is the gameplay that takes advantage of history from he specific setting and the assassin game play is just going to be improved.

Hans684
02-09-2014, 03:31 PM
Some really smart fella said the quote in my sig. However, I think some of this thread is meant as satire. Han's post below gives me that vibe.

Your correct, not everything in this crazy tread should be taken seriously.

RinoTheBouncer
02-09-2014, 04:44 PM
I love the information you provided in this thread. It’s true that there are a lot of unrealistic matters in the games. What I actually love about the game itself, is that it tries to create it’s own logic and reality. It uses stuff from real life such as characters, locations, conspiracies and mysteries and then expand on that in it’s own way.

One thing I’m wondering about, are you implying that since a lot of things are unrealistic in the game that we shouldn’t complain about other stuff in it being unrealistic such us desynchronizing because of detection even when we’ve killed the one who spotted us before saying a word or having a conversation with the victim among the crowd in the “White Room” or there’s another thing you’re implying here, my friend?

SirZeel
02-09-2014, 05:06 PM
Sure, I'd like a realistic AC.

An AC where the first time you get shot you die.
An AC where when you die, your game is over. You can't start it over and there are no checkpoints.
An AC where you get ill and might die from the many diseases of the time, with almost no medicine for 70% of them.
An AC where the time is actually real time, so you actually have to wait years and years to complete the game.
An AC where you have to eat and drink good food and water, not only whiskey and rum.
An AC where your character is sleeping while the PS is turned off, and you might actually die because a thief/murderer/guard/soldier just entered your home and killed you.

Hans684
02-09-2014, 05:48 PM
Sure, I'd like a realistic AC.

An AC where the first time you get shot you die.
An AC where when you die, your game is over. You can't start it over and there are no checkpoints.
An AC where you get ill and might die from the many diseases of the time, with almost no medicine for 70% of them.
An AC where the time is actually real time, so you actually have to wait years and years to complete the game.
An AC where you have to eat and drink good food and water, not only whiskey and rum.
An AC where your character is sleeping while the PS is turned off, and you might actually die because a thief/murderer/guard/soldier just entered your home and killed you.

Exactly, this is realism. Now who would deer to play it?



I love the information you provided in this thread. It’s true that there are a lot of unrealistic matters in the games. What I actually love about the game itself, is that it tries to create it’s own logic and reality. It uses stuff from real life such as characters, locations, conspiracies and mysteries and then expand on that in it’s own way.

Thanks.

Games are and always should be games, sure "realism" can be added but if it is, then it's starting to become a simulator of real life.


One thing I’m wondering about, are you implying that since a lot of things are unrealistic in the game that we shouldn’t complain about other stuff in it being unrealistic such us desynchronizing because of detection even when we’ve killed the one who spotted us before saying a word or having a conversation with the victim among the crowd in the “White Room” or there’s another thing you’re implying here, my friend?

The desynchronizing is nothing to do with realism, you have to blame the Animus for not understanding. It's like a fail safe program, it makes sure you do what the ancestor did without taking any risk. It just doing it's jobb wether we like it or not. By logic since the kill was done silent even thought you where spotted before he said anything, you shouldn't be disynced. The "White Room" is another thing ot blame the Animus for, the conversation did happen becouse it's memory. Why there is a White Room is properly becouse the Animus is a simulator(simulates genetic memories in 3D and re-creates the world it happend in). Hope it helps, friend.

SirZeel
02-09-2014, 05:53 PM
Exactly, this is realism. Now who would deer to play it?

Actually some of these points are kinda different from the ones of the open post.
Like "If you die you have to start from the beginning". This is not realism, this is buddhism.

Hans684
02-09-2014, 06:04 PM
Actually some of these points are kinda different from the ones of the open post.
Like "If you die you have to start from the beginning". This is not realism, this is buddhism.

I fix that shortly.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 06:19 PM
Name a realistic video game or even chapter in a history book...I'll wait.
Also please tell me more about how you were an assassin in the 1100s and didnt have a code, didnt wear robes, or have a hidden blade...
Realistic is perception....
Those who can realistically see themselves making $30,000 a year make $30,000 a year..
Those who can realistically see themselves making $300,000 a year make $300,000 a year.
Developers should not be confined to a weak mind and imagination such as yours.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 06:25 PM
Name a realistic video game or even chapter in a history book...I'll wait.
Also please tell me more about how you were an assassin in the 1100s and didnt have a code, didnt wear robes, or have a hidden blade...

Congratulations. You missed the point of the thread.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 06:26 PM
Congratulations. You missed the point of the thread.

there is no point

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 06:28 PM
there is no point

Yes, it's satire.

The exaggeration here is that Hans and the rest of us are aware the purpose of video games. It's in the thread, clear as crystal.

SirZeel
02-09-2014, 06:29 PM
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

Ugh... is this the Creed in english?
In italian it sounds really better.

Anyway... yes, I think you missed a bit the point of the thread if you were serious.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 06:38 PM
Yes, it's satire.

The exaggeration here is that Hans and the rest of us are aware the purpose of video games. It's in the thread, clear as crystal.

No there isn't I got what he said "I want a realistic game even though I know games are meant to be fun"
I think you are missing my point.
My point is that realistic is perception and a word for the weak.
Who is to say what realistic is?

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 06:41 PM
No there isn't I got what he said "I want a realistic game even though I know games are meant to be fun"
I think you are missing my point.
My point is that realistic is perception and a word for the weak.
Who is to say what realistic is?


Not my view nor words. Read the previous posts and you will see, it's AssassinHMS who want a "realistic" and "true" AC. But if Ubisoft consider making a realistic AC, then this is the way I want it or not at all. Not the kinder garden "realistic" way but at level max. It's AssassinHMS who want the series to go back to a the simulator way, I just pulled it to level max.

Secondly I never want stuff "for the sake of it", just becouse you are agains something doesn't mean it's done for the sake of it. Would like to add that I wasn't totally serious either too begin with.


Your correct, not everything in this crazy tread should be taken seriously.

You're not in the habit of reading an entire thread before posting, are you?

SirZeel
02-09-2014, 06:42 PM
No there isn't I got what he said "I want a realistic game even though I know games are meant to be fun"
I think you are missing my point.
My point is that realistic is perception and a word for the weak.
Who is to say what realistic is?

re·al·is·tic (rē′ə-lĭs′tĭk)
adj.
1. Tending to or expressing an awareness of things as they really are: She gave us a realistic appraisal of our chances.
2. Of or relating to the representation of objects, actions, or social conditions as they actually are: a realistic novel about ghetto life.

SixKeys
02-09-2014, 06:42 PM
Ugh... is this the Creed in english?
In italian it sounds really better.


How is the Italian version different then?

SirZeel
02-09-2014, 06:46 PM
How is the Italian version different then?

It's the same if we're talking about the meaning.
But it just sounds [to me] more fluent.

"Nulla è reale, tutto è lecito."

It literally is; "Nothing is real, all is licit."

Hans684
02-09-2014, 08:09 PM
Developers should not be confined to a weak mind and imagination such as yours.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/821900-AC-improvements-casual-and-hardcore-solution

Funny actually, you call me weak minded and with no imagination...yet you turn to insults. As said don't take everything in this insane thread seriously. The link above is my highest priority, this crazy tread on the other hand is not. And one of my many points is satire.

Landruner
02-09-2014, 08:48 PM
Sure, I'd like a realistic AC.

An AC where the first time you get shot you die.
An AC where when you die, your game is over. You can't start it over and there are no checkpoints.
An AC where you get ill and might die from the many diseases of the time, with almost no medicine for 70% of them.
An AC where the time is actually real time, so you actually have to wait years and years to complete the game.
An AC where you have to eat and drink good food and water, not only whiskey and rum.
An AC where your character is sleeping while the PS is turned off, and you might actually die because a thief/murderer/guard/soldier just entered your home and killed you.

You forgot - we use only voice command a motion sensible command for interacting with the game (more realistic) - and when our character dies - we really die and Ubisoft give an %10 UlCs discount for your funeral. LOL!:o

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 09:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/821900-AC-improvements-casual-and-hardcore-solution

Funny actually, you call me weak minded and with no imagination...yet you turn to insults. As said don't take everything in this insane thread seriously. The link above is my highest priority, this crazy tread on the other hand is not. And one of my many points is satire.

If I call an apple red, is that an insult?
You claim that everything you can't imagine to be true or obtain yourself as unrealistic, therefor you are weak.
You're the type of person to cry about covers of magazines.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 09:09 PM
You're not in the habit of reading an entire thread before posting, are you?

Bro...aint nobody got time fo that

Hans684
02-09-2014, 09:19 PM
If I call an apple red, is that an insult?
You claim that everything you can't imagine to be true or obtain yourself as unrealistic, therefor you are weak.
You're the type of person to cry about covers of magazines.

How would that be an insult?
So you think I'm totally serious about everything in this thread, believe what you want. It's not even worth discussing.
I bet you have seen be cry over them to, don't think you know me.

SirZeel
02-09-2014, 10:08 PM
You forgot - we use only voice command a motion sensible command for interacting with the game (more realistic) - and when our character dies - we really die and Ubisoft give an %10 UlCs discount for your funeral. LOL!:o

Damn right.
And you should also play from the VERY beginning, since the baby was born.


If I call an apple red, is that an insult?
You claim that everything you can't imagine to be true or obtain yourself as unrealistic, therefor you are weak.
You're the type of person to cry about covers of magazines.

STD, with all the respect, you've gone too far. Happens to me all the time: I just skip few posts and miss the point of the game.
It's kinda hard at this point, I know well, to just step back and apologise. No one is judging [not me at least] someone who did an innocent mistake, but it's very easy [and actually very enjoyable] to make fun of a rude guy who can't just admit the situation.

It's all good.
Do the right thing.

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 10:08 PM
Bro...aint nobody got time fo that

And therefore you continue to make yourself look foolish.

And in turn, missing the point of the thread.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 11:03 PM
And therefore you continue to make yourself look foolish.

And in turn, missing the point of the thread.

You're missing the point of everything
Please tell me the point of this thread?
For sarcasm ? (something unreadable?)
I

BATISTABUS
02-09-2014, 11:14 PM
I'd be interested in playing a game like that, except for the parts where dying makes you go back to the beginning and game time is real time. Unless it was some super-cheap downloadable game, I can't see myself playing it much after dying once. That, and I don't trust the soundness of programming to not **** up and kill me without doing anything wrong.

MnemonicSyntax
02-09-2014, 11:43 PM
You're missing the point of everything
Please tell me the point of this thread?
For sarcasm ? (something unreadable?)
I

I already have. Your response was "you didn't have any time for that."

Therefore, I have no time to repeat myself to you, or teach you the definition of what satire is.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-10-2014, 12:10 AM
I already have. Your response was "you didn't have any time for that."

Therefore, I have no time to repeat myself to you, or teach you the definition of what satire is.

Someone tried to explain satire on youtbbe when the english released this train safety video about a safety vest....
knock knock jokes..theyre better

Landruner
02-10-2014, 04:05 AM
I'd be interested in playing a game like that, except for the parts where dying makes you go back to the beginning and game time is real time. Unless it was some super-cheap downloadable game, I can't see myself playing it much after dying once. That, and I don't trust the soundness of programming to not **** up and kill me without doing anything wrong.

If fact somebody forgot to mention above that you don't only have to restart the game if you happen to die, you just have to buy the again if you want to start over - the game can only be once, unless you buy and download checkpoints at $20 each. :rolleyes: but you won't get any proud achievement, just coward one.
In fact we are looking for making the hardiest and more realist game ever made, where any mistake not only cost you to loose the game, but you loose interest in your own live while playing it. Player endures self own pain and faith with the consequence like in real life.

In short: the game simply Assassins yourself - it's Assassin Dreed

---
Disclaimer: This thread is a sarcasm about ultra realistic AC game and I stay in the topic of this thread in posting sarcastic posts - Just mention that in order to avoid future ban.:p for being sarcastic

BATISTABUS
02-10-2014, 04:11 AM
If fact somebody forgot to mention above that you don't only have to restart the game if you happen to die, you just have to buy the again if you want to start over - the game can only be once, unless you buy and download checkpoints at $20 each. :rolleyes: but you won't get any proud achievement, just coward one.
In fact we are looking for making the hardiest and more realist game ever made, where any mistake not only cost you to loose the game, but you loose interest in your own live while playing it. Player endures self own pain and faith with the consequence like in real life.

In short: the game simply Assassins yourself - it's Assassin Dreed

---
Disclaimer: This thread is a sarcasm about realistic AC game and I stay in the topic of this thread in posting sarcastic posts - Just mention that in order to avoid future ban.:p for being sarcastic
Despite how ridiculous this is, I would truly be interested in trying out a game like this xD

Landruner
02-10-2014, 04:30 AM
Despite how ridiculous this is, I would truly be interested in trying out a game like this xD

Like I posted a few posts before in this thread some ideas could be used and re-worked for a deeper hard core game play (Some are already implanted on some other games anyhow) - I think the ideas for this type of features would be excellent for an optional survival or hard core mod for the ones that like challenge or ultra hard core game-play.

Like I also previously wrote in a reply to someone else above - video games are made for entertainment and I believe when they impose to the players some ultra hard core game-play the limit of the extreme, they loose the sight that they are made in the first place - meeting the enjoyment(s) of the players, not their frustrations (Demon & Dark soul being two good examples, I saw people braking their pads of rage while playing those...).

However; a lot of games offer for many years already some more challenging hard core game-play as optional mods, and it is okay since the player knows that the game will be more a pain in the butt to play through.

Perhaps, Ubisoft could consider offering this type of optional mods for the ones that find their AC games too easy (?). I mean it surely adds some replay values and it is not compulsory for the ones that don't like that.

SirZeel
02-10-2014, 10:32 AM
Actually there was a flash game like this, but I can't find it anymore.
You had a normal guy who had to do some stuff, but when you die you couldn't play it anymore. Couldn't start over, couldn't refresh page.

RinoTheBouncer
02-10-2014, 04:50 PM
Exactly, this is realism. Now who would deer to play it?




Thanks.

Games are and always should be games, sure "realism" can be added but if it is, then it's starting to become a simulator of real life.



The desynchronizing is nothing to do with realism, you have to blame the Animus for not understanding. It's like a fail safe program, it makes sure you do what the ancestor did without taking any risk. It just doing it's jobb wether we like it or not. By logic since the kill was done silent even thought you where spotted before he said anything, you shouldn't be disynced. The "White Room" is another thing ot blame the Animus for, the conversation did happen becouse it's memory. Why there is a White Room is properly becouse the Animus is a simulator(simulates genetic memories in 3D and re-creates the world it happend in). Hope it helps, friend.

Thanks for the explanation. I do understand that it has to do with the Animus but I wonder why they didn’t try to “fix” this part of the Animus. Like for example, when the Animus made Altair drown, it was a mistake but then they fixed it, same with subtitles.

I truly wonder how an AC game would look like had it been a “simulator of real life”. Like you have people trained to do Parkour/Free Running and skilled with fighting and stealth and the likes but they just do the stuff that make sense. No Leaps of Faith or anything uncanny, yet however, they keep the mythological stuff. Like a realistic acting character abad environment except that they find supernatural stuff. I think it would be good to try.

Landruner
02-10-2014, 04:55 PM
Actually there was a flash game like this, but I can't find it anymore.
You had a normal guy who had to do some stuff, but when you die you couldn't play it anymore. Couldn't start over, couldn't refresh page.

Permanent Death type games - when you die you PC is permanently removed from the game like some MMOs do...and some you loose all your attributes and collections, or you have to watch getting robbed of your hard earned possession & items by other PCs around you. Hard, hard feeling & it cost a lot to loose on those games!!!

Here is a good one: Try playing the "The Impossible Game" on Xbox Live Arcade. If you don't know it watch the hilarious, but full of profanities (Rage/Quit Rooter Teeth with Micheal Jones video on youtube) and you get an idea of what a impossible hard core games all about...

Hans684
02-10-2014, 05:25 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I do understand that it has to do with the Animus but I wonder why they didn’t try to “fix” this part of the Animus. Like for example, when the Animus made Altair drown, it was a mistake but then they fixed it, same with subtitles.

A lot if it was "fixed" becouse there was a new Animus(Animus 1.0 compared to Animus 2.0). Each gett updated becouse the MD story is our time, so it's getting updates each year. The Animus in ACIVBF is more updated than the one in AC3, ACR ect... And the Animus in ACIVBF is more "pure" than the one used from AC2-AC3. Abstergo made the Animus while the one from AC2-ACR is made with what they got out of Abstero. It can be fixed but that something the AC teams ave to choose to do.


I truly wonder how an AC game would look like had it been a “simulator of real life”. Like you have people trained to do Parkour/Free Running and skilled with fighting and stealth and the likes but they just do the stuff that make sense. No Leaps of Faith or anything uncanny, yet however, they keep the mythological stuff. Like a realistic acting character abad environment except that they find supernatural stuff. I think it would be good to try.

Would like anything as long as it is new. The idea is good if performed good, can't say anything before trying.

SirZeel
02-10-2014, 06:19 PM
Permanent Death type games - when you die you PC is permanently removed from the game like some MMOs do...and some you loose all your attributes and collections, or you have to watch getting robbed of your hard earned possession & items by other PCs around you. Hard, hard feeling & it cost a lot to loose on those games!!!

Here is a good one: Try playing the "The Impossible Game" on Xbox Live Arcade. If you don't know it watch the hilarious, but full of profanities (Rage/Quit Rooter Teeth with Micheal Jones video on youtube) and you get an idea of what a impossible hard core games all about...

Thanks for the tip but I'm playing on a PS3. :)

Landruner
02-10-2014, 06:45 PM
Thanks for the tip but I'm playing on a PS3. :)

I knew it!!! - So sorry, hard core games are not made for you:p (I am teasing you, of course:o)

Landruner
02-10-2014, 07:00 PM
A lot if it was "fixed" becouse there was a new Animus(Animus 1.0 compared to Animus 2.0). Each gett updated becouse the MD story is our time, so it's getting updates each year. The Animus in ACIVBF is more updated than the one in AC3, ACR ect... And the Animus in ACIVBF is more "pure" than the one used from AC2-AC3. Abstergo made the Animus while the one from AC2-ACR is made with what they got out of Abstero. It can be fixed but that something the AC teams ave to choose to do.



Would like anything as long as it is new. The idea is good if performed good, can't say anything before trying.

@Rhino and Hands I was reading a bit above your question about parcour...and since we are in thread about realism and true real assassin - all or nothing.

Here is bellow (spoiler) a link of a parcour seq of the French movie B13 (first movie from the director of TAKEN), which stars David Belle the inventor of parcour - In fact it is his father Raymond that created the technique, but David made them popular worldwide. I am sure that you guys know that movie, but you have an image of what a real choreographed & synchronized parcour sequence can give in a fiction.
Note: that David Belle does not have the robe, the hood and the Arsenal that the AC carry with them. but he ghost at least 5 dudes to the bones in 3 mins of time, No lap of faiths,but obviously big large jumps over the buildings - it still looks amazing and unbelievable. that is what a real true assassin should be. (and it is more realistic LOL)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkNqlSGwI7I

Hans684
02-10-2014, 07:18 PM
@Rhino and Hands I was reading a bit above your question about parcour...

Here is bellow (spoiler) a link of a parcour seq of the French movie B13, which stars David Belle the inventor of parcour - In fact it is his father Raymond that created the technique, but David made them popular worldwide. I am sure that you guys know that movie, but you have an image of what a real choreographed & synchronized parcour sequence can give in a fiction.
Note: that David Belle does not have the robe, the hood and the Arsenal that the AC carry with them. No laip of faiths, but obviously big large jumps over the buildings - it still looks amazing and unbelievable. (and more realistic LOL)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkNqlSGwI7I


I have seen the movie B13 and it's sequal, he should do the parcour animation for each game or at least they should try to gett as close as possible. Such environmental parcour would benefit this series greatly and the running combat without losing any speed. That kind of gameplay would work if we played as the ancestor in fist person, it would be performed better(Mirror's Edge & Dying Light). It might even be better that those games in term of parcour.

Just one thing, what is a "true" assassin? Or rather what makes a "true" assassin?

phoenix-force411
02-10-2014, 07:31 PM
If it's too realistic, it becomes disturbing!

SirZeel
02-10-2014, 07:33 PM
I knew it!!! - So sorry, hard core games are not made for you:p (I am teasing you, of course:o)

Yeah yeah.
At least the PS didn't steal the logo from another's one idea. :D

Landruner
02-10-2014, 07:41 PM
I have seen the movie B13 and it's sequal, he should do the parcour animation for each game or at least they should try to gett as close as possible. Such environmental parcour would benefit this series greatly and the running combat without losing any speed. That kind of gameplay would work if we played as the ancestor in fist person, it would be performed better(Mirror's Edge & Dying Light). It might even be better that those games in term of parcour.

Just one thing, what is a "true" assassin? Or rather what makes a "true" assassin?

I agree that Belle should be part of the franchise or at least mentioned as the papa of the Prince of Persia and the AC series, but he should have been the choreographer of the AC series long ago.
Also, we have to consider that the sequence seen are made for a movie - so unless the sequence in game is scripted it is hard for game to get parcour sequence like so well synchronized.
However; my point was that effectively a recall that Parcour is amazing and emphasizes some pieces of unbelievable human performance or at least hard to swallow for some that do not know it very well. Some piece of AC are obviously possible, but I dare than Belle himself could even try a lap of faith ever.
I believe that such piece via modern environments like this would have been wonderful for Desmond, but yes perhaps, the new time period heroes should stick to basic parcour and not using only some pieces of mechanics of it - Consider, that the devs stick faithfully of the environment of the time periods of the games, which is a good thing, but perhaps they could get wild with some pieces of the environment and no one will blame them for doing it as long as it brings a plus in the game-play of the games.

Hans684
02-10-2014, 07:57 PM
I agree that Belle should be part of the franchise or at least mentioned as the papa of the Prince of Persia and the AC series, but he should have been the choreographer of the AC series long ago.
Also, we have to consider that the sequence seen are made for a movie - so unless the sequence in game is scripted it is hard for game to get parcour sequence like so well synchronized.
However; my point was that effectively a recall that Parcour is amazing and emphasizes some pieces of unbelievable human performance or at least hard to swallow for some that do not know it very well. Some piece of AC are obviously possible, but I dare than Belle himself could even try a lap of faith ever.
I believe that such piece via modern environments like this would have been wonderful for Desmond, but yes perhaps, the new time period heroes should stick to basic parcour and not using only some pieces of mechanics of it - Consider, that the devs stick faithfully of the environment of the time periods of the games, which is a good thing, but perhaps they could get wild with some pieces of the environment and no one will blame them for doing it as long as it brings a plus in the game-play of the games.

Indeed he should, he is even French. And since Ubisoft is French, then it should be rather easy to make him at least effect the parcour of the series or even have him polish it with his own parcour.
If I where working at Ubisoft I would have sett the movie in France and lett him be the protagonist. Then the chance of the movie going wrong would be a lot less, at least in term of core pillars(stealth, combat and navigation). And a French actor playing a French assassin is a good choice with that amount of skill(as seen in the video).
In term of game play it can be good but it's all in the performense.

Landruner
02-10-2014, 08:13 PM
I have seen the movie B13 and it's sequal, he should do the parcour animation for each game or at least they should try to gett as close as possible. Such environmental parcour would benefit this series greatly and the running combat without losing any speed. That kind of gameplay would work if we played as the ancestor in fist person, it would be performed better(Mirror's Edge & Dying Light). It might even be better that those games in term of parcour.

Just one thing, what is a "true" assassin? Or rather what makes a "true" assassin?

Ooops I did not see that you added the question about the TRUE ASSASSIN (?) and that is an excellent question
Well I honestly do not know what a true assassin is? - I honestly just quoted it for not getting in trouble and staying in the topic after linking a link from youtube and getting a new ban.:rolleyes:! (long story) I am paranoid now...

So, a true Assassin what it is? well no clue (?) - in fact I never about what a "true" Assassin was before coming on this forum by the end of October 2013 and opening a thread for more weapons and Assassin Weapon and someone said I was a "sisi" because "true" Assassins don't need extra weapons, but just hidden blades.

So, I assumed that I was a whiner to try to introduce my poor hand fist crossbow gadget for my Edward. So, I knew that I was not a true Assassin myself, but just a coward. In fact I am a fake Assassin, since I support assassin Girls and i like ranged and sneaky weapons. So by "true" assassin standard, I can't be a real and true assassin, I believe.

I believe that a "true" assassin is a guy (because he has to be a guy) that has a hood, a robe and some hidden blade and that tails his targets over and over before streaking his foes like a true assassin does or should. What makes a true Assassin is true Assassin? well it is because he knows that he is a true assassin and the other are not true assassins, at least not credible enough like a true Assassin is. (you follow me?, because i am lost...lol)

I know for a fact that ranged weapons are for sisies (blowpipe is apparently okay thought) ah I forgot he must have smoke bomb only.So sisies can't be true Assassins - Dare you to be one!!!! I command you not trying, only true Assassin have the right to be one.

More seriously, I don't know I think the True Assassin thing is now a meme on that forum. if it is not yet a meme it will turn into one petty soon.

Note: that is funny because I was posting earlier in another thread to MSyntax that I had no clue of what of true or real assassin is.
I DO NOT KNOW WHAT A TRUE ASSASSIN IS!!!!

Landruner
02-10-2014, 08:32 PM
If it's too realistic, it becomes disturbing!

Ah!!! you are not a "true" assassin (LOL!) - Note: just teasing you with the true real assassin question that a lot are wondering about:p

More seriously, I was writing to hans earlier that this type of sequence is not technically possible in video game unless it is scripted, so no one would like to play a full sequence where you have most of the time QTE happening all the time (I refer to the beginning of the sequence in the hall )- However; with some tweaks in the design something can be close to this in an Assassin Creed without of course having the same impact or feeling. I like the jumping from stair to stair in the stair case - That should be used in the AC.

yazzayap
02-10-2014, 09:14 PM
They used disguises, something this series need to work with.
The hashshashin also have to eat, sleep, drink and use the bathroom.
No more health bar, there is a limb system. Example your leg gets badly hurt in combat, there for you will be unable to free-run.
One it kill if you hit a critical part like the trouth, heart or head.
Being hurt will affect you, you have to go use medicine and all that but you don't gett he health back at full seconds after. It takes time, just like reality.
There is also a weight system, adrenaline system, light/dark system, clothing system, limb system, realitic wanted system ect...
If you are hurt in combat you will also gett weaker, slower ect...

You're right. At least have a disguise system like Hitman's. For missions that the Assassin doesn't know what enemies or civilians around the mission site, it's fine. However, for certain missions such as the mission "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" in Brotherhood, Ezio, the only guy wearing a hooded outfit with a cape is blending with cadinals and the guards doesn't notice the very obvious thing. It's ridiculous. Agent 47 would've done the smartest, most logical thing. Kill a cardinal, take his robes, hide the body and go after the target,

Using the bathroom is a bit far-fetched, but eating, drinking and sleeping should be included. Ah, and the only time Ezio had a bath which was shown in the game was in Brotherhood, the year 1500. Does it mean that he didn't bathe since his family was killed 23 years ago? Blend all you like with crowds, it would be useless when you smell like garbage.

Fighting should also be improved. Honestly, sending ONE guy into a battlefield (the Siege of Viana, Brotherhood) and expect him to survive? Didn't he recruit several assassins in Rome? Are they so lazy or homesick that they can't leave Rome for a while?

The weight of equipment should also be taken into account. One could wear full metal armor and various weapons without being worn down, especially during freerunning. Have a system where the Assassin could improve his strength to prevent being worn down by the equipment.

Hans684
02-10-2014, 09:15 PM
Ah!!! you are not a "true" assassin (LOL!) - Note: just teasing you with the true real assassin question that a lot are wondering about:p

More seriously, I was writing to hans earlier that this type of sequence is not technically possible in video game unless it is scripted, so no one would like to play a full sequence where you have most of the time QTE happening all the time (I refer to the beginning of the sequence in the hall )- However; with some tweaks in the design something can be close to this in an Assassin Creed without of course having the same impact or feeling. I like the jumping from stair to stair in the stair case - That should be used in the AC.

It is possible with next-gen, Mirror's Edge 2 is going to be open world unlike Mirror's Edge 1 that is linear.

MnemonicSyntax
02-11-2014, 02:13 AM
Yeah yeah.
At least the PS didn't steal the logo from another's one idea. :D

Spider-Man disagrees and wants his logo back.