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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:58 AM
Anybody have some good information on this conflict? I have read some sources and am getting conflicting accounts. I always thought the Japanese were victorious in the air versus the VVS and that the Ki-27 nate was besting the Russian I-152s and I-153s. In a number of sources, I read the Russians came out on top. If anyone has good books or internet sites on this conflict, please let me know.

Thanks

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 01:58 AM
Anybody have some good information on this conflict? I have read some sources and am getting conflicting accounts. I always thought the Japanese were victorious in the air versus the VVS and that the Ki-27 nate was besting the Russian I-152s and I-153s. In a number of sources, I read the Russians came out on top. If anyone has good books or internet sites on this conflict, please let me know.

Thanks

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 02:20 AM
This site has some info:


http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/otherres.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 04:49 AM
Thanks Zybot, now I have to read all that, and I don't have time but I guess I have to anyway.

This was interesting...

lifted from Soviet Fighters in the Sky of China Part VI

The main rival of the I-15,Hawk II and CR.32 at the beginning of the war in China, the Ki-10 biplane (I-95, Type 95), in the opinion of the author of Samoletostroenie v SSSR (Aircraft Construction in the USSR), "appeared one of the most perfectly maneuverable fighters of the 1930s. The prototype first flew in1935. It had a number of superiorities over the CR-32 and He 51. Chief among them was possession of a supercharger for the water-cooled BMW-IX. This provided greater power at higher altitude and consequently increased speed, climb and maneuverability, which were also improved by excellent finishing and the clean aerodynamic form of the machine's metallic construction with fabric wing surfaces. A low specific wing loading also improved maneuverability and control. armament was two synchronized 7.7mm Vickers machine guns.


NII VVS test pilots noted the high standard of production of the Ki-10, its ease of maintenance, with easy access to the motor and all components of the aircraft. Flight characteristics were straightforward, but it was insufficiently stable , and its spinning characteristics were bad, due to a great delay in recovery and the tendency to go into a flat spin. Take-off and landing runs were sufficiently long that larger airfields were needed. But in spite of a number of deficiencies, the I-95 seemed a very strong opponent in air combat. In comparison with the I-15 it had superior speed at altitudes greater than 3-4 km, and could quickly overtake the I-15 in a dive. At the same time the I-95 underperformed the I-15 in maneuverability and particularly in climb. Therefore an I-15 pilot in battle with the I-95 should make use of his superiority in vertical speed and depart from combat only upward. Thus, in an air combat much depended on tactics, since there was no absolute superiority of either aircraft."

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 10:53 PM
mike_espo wrote:
- Anybody have some good information on this conflict?
- I have read some sources and am getting conflicting
- accounts. I always thought the Japanese were
- victorious in the air versus the VVS and that the
- Ki-27 nate was besting the Russian I-152s and
- I-153s. In a number of sources, I read the Russians
- came out on top. If anyone has good books or
- internet sites on this conflict, please let me know.
-

The french magazine "Le fana de l'aviation" published a series of articles on the japanese army fighter force a few months ago and there was an article about the combat career of the I-15bis over the Khalkhin-Gol in the september issue of "Avions".

On the whole, this campaign was a real success for the soviets who soundly defeated the japanese ground forces, but in the air, it was mostly a draw.

The japanese gained initial air superiority but subsequently lost it when the soviets changed tactics and engaged new and better equipped units.

Total casualties, to all causes, were the following : 164 japanese airplanes lost, and 205 soviet and mongolian ones (including 160 fighters among which 54 I-15bis, about 40 of which were lost in the first week of fighting).

It's worth noting that the japanese claimed 1240 enemy airplanes destroyed (in air combat only) and the soviets 600 (500 in air combat).

70 percents of the japanese casualties occurred in the final four weeks of fighting, while more than half of the soviet ones had been suffered in the beginning.

The main fighters on the japanese side was the Ki-27, and a few Ki-10s, while the soviet ones were I-153s, I-15bis, and I-16s.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:02 PM
book 13 of the aircraft of the aces series has some good stuff on that airwar. That's the book on the JAAF aces.

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:43 PM
http://www.danford.net/nomonhan.htm

check that link

12th IAP "Guards"

http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/12th_iap_home_page.htm

RHAF 5/I Fighter Group
http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/rhaf.htm

http://12iapil2ops.0catch.com/12iapmedal.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 04:43 AM
Ywah, I had read it many time and discussed with some IL2 creating associates about it. Main problem is low demand as pretty below Spanish Civil war. If we got KI-27 flyable then we can do it with I-153. Good news, I learned that Ki-27 already worked by someone at Russian. We hope that someone glad to model add I-15bis and Ki-10 for us If we are so nice to them. If we have Early China War with that planes then we may add more interesting "exports" planes into it.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 04:43 PM
I've read the German (DDR) edition of Vorosheykin's biography, volume one dealing with Khalkin Gol. Was quite interesting. So if you can read German this could be a "first hand account", of course it should be available in Russian too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
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'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
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The rest is history...

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