PDA

View Full Version : editing IL2 speech and profanity



XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:48 PM
As a follow-up to and earlier post about UK speech, someone pointed me in the direction of the correct folders and .wav files. I'll have to use US speech for now.

It's good to know these are .wav's which I can edit. I don't care for the profanity that crops up, at least in English (not too worried about the German "scheisse") but if my boys are around, G** dammit and s**t aren't appreciated.

Frankly, I wish Ubi Soft had left that stuff out altogether. After all, I suppose if one likes profanity one can supply a lot of realism oneself just sitting in front of the screen! It bugs me that younger kids, who don't exactly need prompting in that regard, or whose parents may actually exert some oversight, will suddenly encounter it in a "fun" flight sim.

Well, I'm getting out my SonicFoundry Sound Forge as I write (to do a little audio snipping!).

- flight sim Dad



Message Edited on 11/07/0302:49PM by mmanger

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:48 PM
As a follow-up to and earlier post about UK speech, someone pointed me in the direction of the correct folders and .wav files. I'll have to use US speech for now.

It's good to know these are .wav's which I can edit. I don't care for the profanity that crops up, at least in English (not too worried about the German "scheisse") but if my boys are around, G** dammit and s**t aren't appreciated.

Frankly, I wish Ubi Soft had left that stuff out altogether. After all, I suppose if one likes profanity one can supply a lot of realism oneself just sitting in front of the screen! It bugs me that younger kids, who don't exactly need prompting in that regard, or whose parents may actually exert some oversight, will suddenly encounter it in a "fun" flight sim.

Well, I'm getting out my SonicFoundry Sound Forge as I write (to do a little audio snipping!).

- flight sim Dad



Message Edited on 11/07/0302:49PM by mmanger

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:03 PM
The men of WWII put thier lives on the line. Under those conditions, I'd expect train-loads of profanity from any mans mouth.

If you cant handle "gud damnit' or 'shet', I do not see how your sensitive nature can deal with all the shooting.




<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

Zayets
11-07-2003, 04:04 PM
use those headphones you received on your birthday.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:06 PM
I know it's not an ideal solution, but perhaps you should think about purchasing a pair of headphones.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:11 PM
Turn sound off, save over million fps in one week, Nvida card make good engine sound, for 300$ better do something.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:13 PM
You'd best not play "Vietcong" (mature) edition!

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:16 PM
Hey, he's entitled to his opinion. As a fully grown adult myself /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I WANT the profanity. It would have been there then and so it should feckin well be in the sim too. It wouldn't have hurt to have put an option in to turn it off though I guess.





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:21 PM
mmanger,

I enjoyed the new US campaign, but, like you I was sad to hear "GD" in the game. There is cursing and then the is *cursing* and I am sure that many folks are deeply offended by this specific religion-related profanity.

Is *this* US speech file being added to official IL-2FB add-ons? If so, it would be a very unfortunate development.


Falcon

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_09.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:26 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
- The men of WWII put thier lives on the line. Under
- those conditions, I'd expect train-loads of
- profanity from any mans mouth.
-
- If you cant handle "gud damnit' or 'shet', I do not
- see how your sensitive nature can deal with all the
- shooting.

I don't actually think that is his problem. From reading the post, he is concerned about the swearing in the game not during WWII when his skids were not born <sheesh>.

I have to agree, my kids are young and impressionable and I don't want them hearing this language either. Last night on the Simpsons, someone said "Damn it" and an hour later my 5 year old daughter said it to her mother.

Thats what its like with young children, ok damn it isn't too bad but its something I dont want in my house. I mean half the forum members should know as they all behave like children and most of them seem to be still at school.

If its not allowed on the forum, it shouldn't be allowed in the game.



Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:30 PM
Can we have something like this instead please?

"Oh dear, I seem to be burning to death while trapped in this pesky machine. Be a darling and drop a line to my next of kin, will you? Thanks so much."

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:37 PM
mmanger wrote:
It bugs me that
- younger kids, who don't exactly need prompting in
- that regard, or whose parents may actually exert
- some oversight, will suddenly encounter it in a
- "fun" flight sim.

The game dose have a "Teen" rating. I don't mean to criticize your opinion, but children too young for profanity are probably too young for attrition warfare.



<center> http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/homer.jpg <font size= 2>
"Ahh - the Luftwaffe, the Washington Generals of The History Channel."
<a href="http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/"> <font size= 1>Fiend Wings<a/>
<font color=666666>

Message Edited on 11/07/0310:43AM by georgeo76

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:38 PM
What? Are you YWCA? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


-------------------------------------------------------------
<font size = 1>
=815=Squadron in South Korea
http://cafe.daum.net/il2sturmovik
</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:39 PM
I had to chuckle, and he's right you have to be careful with kids.

And their teachers too.

My 7 year old boy lost his morning break because he called one of his m8's a 'Plonker'..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:47 PM
Because words are just soooooo damaging. http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif


:::sigh:::

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:47 PM
I'm with you on this, but you'll not get much encouragement on these boards.

Remember the quotation that goes something like this..."There ain't no atheists in foxholes".

Well, I spent my time in the military and from personal experience...the filthiest talk was from non-combatants hanging around the barracks, the bars and what not.
Tough talk from non-combatants and peace timers. I heard it for years, just like all the imbellished lies that were told by those who'd never been in hard situations.

When it came time to get with the "for real, getting your butt shot at", that verbiage dried up to naught.

WHEN FOR REAL LIFE IS ON THE LINE it's just amazing how important religion becomes a way of life.

Personally, I think most people are darned good about upright and moral issues. However many will still blast on you for expressing your distaste for profanity and filthy talk.

As applied to the IL2-FB, this game is played by persons called children (under 14). I just don't see that base language should have a place of importance in IL2-FB.

When I hear the bit about "he's going to hell", I think to myself it's bad enough he just got shot down. So now, I'm judge and jury...what an ignorant comment /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:53 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
- The men of WWII put thier lives on the line. Under
- those conditions, I'd expect train-loads of
- profanity from any mans mouth. -
- If you cant handle "gud damnit' or 'shet', I do not
- see how your sensitive nature can deal with all the
- shooting.
-
-
-
-
-
- <font face="Courier New"> -
- _____ | _____
- _\__(o)__/_
- ./ \.
-

The Baldie man like a laser has gone straight to the point. How can you rail against the profanity used in the game yet let you kids play it with all its violent aspects.
Lets not be hyprocritical here save that for the bible thumpers.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:56 PM
I thank those who agreed, and those who disagreed but respected my opinion... which was not, after all, about what went on in the war (we all know that), but what goes on in my home, which I can (and ought to) control.

There a lot of great people on this forum. But as for those who immediately launch into snide remarks... I suppose they're shining examples of what I'm trying to keep my kids from becoming. After all, this is a game, it's not reality, no matter how "realistic" you make it. Fact is, you're not in a plane, you're not being shot at... but you are sitting in front of a computer.

Thanks for the feedback. Signing off.

P.S. Good point above about soldiers' language. Much of the foul-mouthed mentality seems to be exaggerated by films. I've read plenty of first-hand accounts and you get all types.



Message Edited on 11/07/0303:58PM by mmanger

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:57 PM
The game is about death and violence.

Pilots get shot in the head and burn to death in there cockpits.

If you were such a 'concerned parent' you shouldn't be playing the game in front of them anyway.

Hawgdog
11-07-2003, 05:02 PM
mmanger wrote:
- There a lot of great people on this forum. But as
- for those who immediately launch into snide
- remarks... I suppose they're shining examples of
- what I'm trying to keep my kids from becoming.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Good point!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center></script>When your computer goes to hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent it!
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

There are no stupid questions,
but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:07 PM
mmanger wrote:

-
- There a lot of great people on this forum. But as
- for those who immediately launch into snide
- remarks... I suppose they're shining examples of
- what I'm trying to keep my kids from becoming.


Amen to that!




Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:12 PM
Words of many sorts are banned in this forum because there's kids here, right? Well, IMO the same should apply to the game...

My main gripe isn't the profanity, which may be realistic and perhaps isn't that bad (since I'm a bachelor without kids), but I'm telling you, when I fly the IL2 with the rear gunner, I secretly hope someone will come and shoot that cockgobbler to shreds because him and all his profanity drive me nuts. It's great the first time but after flying for three hours listening to that same guy say the same boring things, it gets tiring, no?



<p align="center"> http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/Spit.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:13 PM
nearmiss wrote:
- I'm with you on this, but you'll not get much
- encouragement on these boards.
-
- Remember the quotation that goes something like
- this..."There ain't no atheists in foxholes".
-
- Well, I spent my time in the military and from
- personal experience...the filthiest talk was from
- non-combatants hanging around the barracks, the bars
- and what not.
- Tough talk from non-combatants and peace timers. I
- heard it for years, just like all the imbellished
- lies that were told by those who'd never been in
- hard situations.
-
- When it came time to get with the "for real, getting
- your butt shot at", that verbiage dried up to
- naught.
-
- WHEN FOR REAL LIFE IS ON THE LINE it's just
- amazing how important religion becomes a way of
- life.
-
- Personally, I think most people are darned good
- about upright and moral issues. However many will
- still blast on you for expressing your distaste for
- profanity and filthy talk.
-
- As applied to the IL2-FB, this game is played by
- persons called children (under 14). I just don't see
- that base language should have a place of importance
- in IL2-FB.
-
- When I hear the bit about "he's going to hell", I
- think to myself it's bad enough he just got shot
- down. So now, I'm judge and jury...what an ignorant
- comment /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-

I agree with you mostly. The amount of swearing during WWII was indeed minimal. Men just didn't talk like that back then.

However, a for-profit game title has to live up to certain perceptions of its audience. I think this game strikes and excellent balance between real-life and customer expectation.

About the statement "he's going to hell".... When you kill a man, you are judge, jury, and executioner. When your country takes the moral high-ground in the conflict (as they all do), assumption of damnation makes complete sense after murdering a man. Its a common rationale to demonize the enemy to lesson to impact of taking life.

If you are going to be so sensitive, try playing Tetris instead.



<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:29 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
taking life.
-
- If you are going to be so sensitive, try playing
- Tetris instead.
-

YWCA in Korea once proclaimed Tetris because they thought it reminds kids of sex. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-------------------------------------------------------------
<font size = 1>
=815=Squadron in South Korea
http://cafe.daum.net/il2sturmovik
</font>

Message Edited on 11/08/0301:30AM by TooCooL34

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:31 PM
I find it very difficult to understand this level of sensitivity. It seems to me that mmanger (and a couple of others are the type to happily feed their chidren meat, but not tell them where it actually comes from. Yes, my daughter knows.

My point is, how can people in the same breath KILL in a flight sim then say they don`t like the swearing they hear of fighter pilots in combat?

Yes, the killing is not real, but then neither is the swearing actually aimed at anyone or anything. (I would also add it`s pretty light stuff too).

If you are going to complain about the act of swearing in a combat flight sim (and it did happen in reality). Then you should by that same account complain about the acts of killing human beings and therefore BANN all such sims. Don`t you think?

And, yes, I am a Christian...

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).



Message Edited on 11/07/0304:33PM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:35 PM
Dexmeister wrote:
- I secretly hope
- someone will come and shoot that cockgobbler to
- shreds because him and all his profanity drive me
- nuts.




<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:38 PM
How old are you kids mate? I mean under 10 i guess what you saying is acceptable but with their mates anything over 10 they are going to be swearing their heads off.

Also i never get US or British speech on mine unless i change it, what you will just have to do is scan through the sound files on a low volume and delete them or cut and paste them to somewhere else.

I think some have been a bit harsh on him i mean he is only trying to protect his kids i mean you cannot flame him for that.

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:39 PM
mmanger wrote:
- Fact is, you're not in a plane, you're not being shot at...

And......fact is, words are just words. They are not harmful themselves. It's society that makes them "harmful". People like you. lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:40 PM
Dexmeister wrote:
- but I'm telling you, when I
- fly the IL2 with the rear gunner, I secretly hope
- someone will come and shoot that cockgobbler to
- shreds because him and all his profanity drive me
- nuts.

Ok, now this is just classic irony. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:45 PM
mmanager, Regards

I think your trying to impress us with you fatherly dedication, or you are very young yourself, or not very worldly, or all of the above. You may be a troll.

Of the many things you need to teach your children the non-use of our slang language ranks last. They will hear it soon enough. After all....It appears you know all the words!

Teach them to be productive, honest, a love of God, and Country. Teach them a dedication to duty.

Where do I come off? My 27 year old son Fought in Afghanistan last year and thankfully has just arrived home from 8 months of combat in Iraq. He uses "bad" words now and then. I hardly notice. He fought against Terrorism that threatens the freedoms of our country and the world. My wife and I have died a thousand deaths of worry in the last year. I am immensely PROUD. I like to think it was my abilities as a father. Some how, I think I merely provided a comfortable umbrella to my son, my hero, while he grew to be the man he is today.. He has done so much. He has done it by himself and unselfishly for his country.

As I was taught when young..."Actions speak louder than words!"

Relax Dad, You'll do fine!

Duff4r

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:48 PM
i cannot believe how you can all be so hard on him i mean he is trying to protect his kids they could only be 3 for all we know i mean i not sure about you lot but i would not want my 3Year old kids marching around the house going "S*** I been *ucking hit!"

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:49 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:
- i cannot believe how you can all be so hard on him i
- mean he is trying to protect his kids they could
- only be 3 for all we know i mean i not sure about
- you lot but i would not want my 3Year old kids
- marching around the house going "S*** I been *ucking
- hit!"
-
- Wilhelm

Because it's not "protection" in any form. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:51 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:
- How old are you kids mate? I mean under 10 i guess
- what you saying is acceptable but with their mates
- anything over 10 they are going to be swearing their
- heads off.
-
- Also i never get US or British speech on mine unless
- i change it, what you will just have to do is scan
- through the sound files on a low volume and delete
- them or cut and paste them to somewhere else.
-
- I think some have been a bit harsh on him i mean he
- is only trying to protect his kids i mean you cannot
- flame him for that.
-
- Wilhelm

Protect his kids? Please!

They say you should talk to your kids about stuff. Do you know why? Not because your words will change anything about them, but because THIER words will change many things about you.

Kids learn by example. They can't acknowledge thier dads hypocricy, but they'll sure make dad see it in himself if he'll take 5 minutes of his precious 'e-murdering' time to talk to them, rather than come here complaining that his virtual-death-dealing is sprinkled with foul language.

TALK TO YOUR KIDS. Don't tell them "Dont do this" and expect them to listen.. have 2-sided discussion about things like this and LISTEN to what they have to say. Kids are great for reflecting your own ignorance.

<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:52 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:
"S*** I been *ucking hit!"
-

I never heard that comms in FB. A leap in arg.


-------------------------------------------------------------
<font size = 1>
=815=Squadron in South Korea
http://cafe.daum.net/il2sturmovik
</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:55 PM
mmanger wrote:
- It's good to know these are .wav's which I can edit.
- I don't care for the profanity that crops up, at
- least in English (not too worried about the German
- "scheisse") but if my boys are around, G** dammit
- and s**t aren't appreciated.

I allways find it odd that people can justify in thier minds that it is ok for thier children to simulate killing people.. but have a problem with the profanity.. and some even have a problem with the nose art with the semi nude women... keep in mind I not trying to put you down mmanger.. I just dont understand how you can draw the line there?

<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 05:57 PM
You shouldn't play such a violent game in front of your kids. The box says 11+ so this is not for children. If you can't live with the (IMO mild) profanity then turn off the speech or replace it now that you have the technology to do so yourself. Should your children pick up some bad language from somewhere - be a responsible parent & tell them how to communicate in a civilized manner - in other words teach them some etiqette in stead of whining about the "source of infection". /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

M0NS (authorized P39 pyrotechnician)



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:05 PM
mmanager....Use windows built-in sound recorder to open the offending files and edit out what you don't like or record your own message. Just remember to save it in the same format that it is recorded in, Mpeg layer 3, 20 Kbits; 11,025Hz mono; 2kb/s. or it won't work at all.

They are located here:

\UbiSoft\ForgottenBattles\samples\Speech\US

The wav. file names will tell you which ones contain profanity..ie. "damn.wav".

It's a bit of work, but do-able.

<CENTER>http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/FB_JG27.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:07 PM
tagert wrote:
- I allways find it odd that people can justify in
- thier minds that it is ok for thier children to
- simulate killing people.. but have a problem with
- the profanity..


PRECISELY what I was going to say. I'm really puzzled, you want to be able to virtually KILL people in front of your kids, or watch them do it, but hearing "GD" as someone so quaintly put it is offensive?

Really, to anyone that would seriously want the swearing removed from this or any other adult themed game then perhaps you should first re-think whether it is appropriate to expose your children to the blood and guts within before it is appropriate for them to hear 'naughty words'.

Can I suggest Mario Kart?





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:08 PM
Hell with it!

To edit the Speech ingame:

HardDrive:>programfiles>UBI SOFT >IL2 Forgotten battles> Samples> Speech > US >

Scan through the actor files and delete all the files which have profanity in them



Is it not wierd that it took a 15 year old (me) to tell him what to do while the rest of you 20year olds and plus argue about the bloody ethics behind it!



Wilhelm

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:09 PM
M0NS wrote:
- be a responsible parent & tell them how
- to communicate in a civilized manner - in other
- words teach them some etiqette in stead of whining
- about the "source of infection".

Very well put.. Start now, becuase they are going to hear it sooner or later game or not game

<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:14 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:

- Is it not wierd that it took a 15 year old (me) to
- tell him what to do while the rest of you 20year
- olds and plus argue about the bloody ethics behind
- it!

Good for you!!! Now, maybe we old people like to discuss the bloody ethics.

I will paraphrase J.M. Serrat:
"S**t and f**k are not profanity. Hunger, poverty, injustice... those are"

GATO_LOCO

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:16 PM
It is quite alright if people want to protect their children from certain things, but I don't see why the rest of society always needs to pitch in. Not everyone has children, and not everyone is offended by the same things.

All sorts of medias are being censored, or are requested to be censored, because of "the kids." "Think of the kids! They are our future! They are our most precious resource." That's nice, but first of all, the world doesn't revolve around "the kids", and second, it is not the job of the media or entertainment industry to help raise "the kids."

It is the job of the parents to raise their children, and if they think that exposure to certain things might be harmful to their children, they should talk to them about it.

No matter how hard anyone tries, profanity, sex, violence, and anything else exposure to which is supposed to turn people into murderers, rapists, satanists (or whatever the latest theory is), is always going to be around, and sooner or later children will be exposed to it.

By talking to their children and by setting a good example, parents will be able to arm their children with the proper knowledge and techniques to deal with exposure to these things. Keeping them in the dark about, though the motives might be admirable, will leave the children unprepared.



Message Edited on 11/07/0311:17AM by Bf109Gustav

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:16 PM
Now 2 people have told him what to do you can yell at him now :P

I personally think we should call him Ned Flanders http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wilhelm

Message Edited on 11/07/0305:18PM by Wilhelm_Hartas

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:20 PM
Options:

> Edit them out
> Replace the .wavs with your own
> Delete the files.

I do find it a little odd to be concerned with profanity around your children, but not it enjoying the simulated murder of other human beings. What kind of lesson is that for your kids? Murder = Good, Swearing (and sex I presume) = Bad?

<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:21 PM
No one can fault him for wanting to protect his kids. I have kids of my own but I wouldn't let my 5 year old play FB at all. I understand there is profanity in the game and so I use my discretion where she is concerned. The point I am trying to make is, as a parent you have to use your discretion where your children are concerned. We do not live in a perfect utopian world, we have to protect our children from what we believe and very much know is harmful to them. This game has inherent violence and profanity. As a parent one has to decide what they must and must not allow their children to see. From my pespective violence and profanity go hand in hand and they both equally have a negative influence on my children. If one has this view then why, as some have asked here, would this gentleman let his children play this game and be exposed to the negative influence of its violence but yet rail against the negative influence of its profanity. His comments, in my view, are hyproctical and essentially meaningless.

Sorry buts that my 2 cents.



Message Edited on 11/07/03 12:22PM by dragonhart38

Message Edited on 11/07/0312:22PM by dragonhart38

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:24 PM
Profanity seems like such a bible basher's word though must be my British heathanism coming through again.

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:26 PM
ROFLMAO !!!!!!!

And then to think that an athe√¬Įst like me pointed you in the right direction mmanger - realy ROFL

Ah what the heck - you have your own right to put anything in there - but wait till ya hear my Dutch version LOL (nah just kiddin)

But I really agree with some though - in essence this is a very violent game - as that time was.... which i find more disturbing than some "profanity" because that is JUST what this game is about !

"profane" ::= not holy; having to do with this life (not the life after death); disrespectfull to God
=Readers Digest Dictionary=

See how they put God in last place? - now THATS also profane i assume /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif - should i burn the book ?

Can't wait to hear your US speech pack - will you publish it ?

hehehe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif golly

p.s. You should Really look into the file Conf.ini in the FB folder and set the following value (under the [Game] heading) HighGore=1

Not gonna tell ya what THAT does though...

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

lil_labbit <font color="#00FFFF">
Korg beta tester </font>
<center> http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:26 PM
Valid concern PERIOD, and other gamers criticism should be completely ignored by this parent.

As I father of a young son (9) who likes video gaming and especially this game, I too wished there was no swearing (I personally don't care for such things). This father is more then entitled to express his concern.

Each parent should be carefully selecting what games their children play or even come into contact with. Certainly in real life pilots swore, that's not the issue at all here.

For me, the swearing in this game is not significant in both terms of quantity and severity, and I do like the fact that there isn't any desire to cater to the "blood and guts" community that seems to be taking over video gaming.

This father should act upon his convictions - wear headphones, don't play the game in front of his young children, or even get rid of the game if it bothers him.

Not sure how old his kids are, but he needs to address this issue. There are so many violent games with lots of swearing and sex that we parents need to exercise our judgement, and if our sense of judgement offends others, so be it.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:29 PM
- to the "blood and guts" community that seems to be
- taking over video gaming.


What its been there since the start umm let be think most popular games at the beggining of mass gaming

Wolf3d
Doom
Doom2

taking over the video gaming it IS the video gaming community.

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:33 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:
-- to the "blood and guts" community that seems to be
-- taking over video gaming.
-
-
- What its been there since the start umm let be think
- most popular games at the beggining of mass gaming
-
- Wolf3d
- Doom
- Doom2
-
- taking over the video gaming it IS the video gaming
- community.
-
- Wilhelm

You forgot the Crusades Wilhelm.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

lil_labbit <font color="#00FFFF">
Korg beta tester </font>
<center> http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:36 PM
The 1.0 readme spells out very clearly the simplicity of changing the voice files in the game.

If you want, you can make a recording of one of your kids saying "ooh, a bunny!" and replace each and every naughty word in the game with that.

Read the readme.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:38 PM
Been violent games for quite some time, although back in my Intellevision days the gore certainly wasn't there.

Bottom line, whenever someone exercises a conviction, others feel judged by it and argue. So be it.

All those games, and a million more you could mention, are not in my household. And yet I make no claim that I am "better" than someone who has all of them, but, nevertheless, I still choose a less violent and gore in my gaming.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:42 PM
Surely though i mean he works presumably right he comes home from work about 5pm right little kiddies should be off to bed in an hour then can't he play on his game i mean it just all seems a bit excessive to me.

Also the HiGore i think it just makes the pilots head slump over nothing major or do we get blood splattered all over the dashboard and a head rolling around on the pedals or what?


Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:46 PM
Well I just wish parents teach thier kids about the world, instead of expecting the world to teach thier kids.

The next thing will be someone complaining about the NOSE ART with the semi nude pictures...

Where will it end?

ALL FLIGHT OPS HAVE BEEN CANCLED.. THE ENMY HAS NAUGHTY PICTURES


<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

adlabs6
11-07-2003, 06:46 PM
This issue has nothing to do with being sensitive about the games content.

Look on the back of you FB box what do you see? The ESRB rating description says "TEEN/Violence". It says nothing about language. The descriptor IS mislabeled. Even games with langueage in the song lyrics are noted, but apparently the language in FB was either not understood (in Russian or German) or not seen (the comparatively small US campaign).

And what's this mess about being upset by words but not by violence? That is pure nonsense! If I set up a flight of planes with a US squadron, and we fly in formation together to look at the planes and the graphics is there any violence if there is no target? NO! YET at the same time, if I simply let a visitor (who could well be a child) fly for a while (NON combat here!) and by chance they should fly away from the formation, and the loud mouthed wingleader blasts his profanity from my speakers. No violence is needed.

And give the violence stuff a break anyway. This game is NON viloent compared to the first person shooters that carry the M ESRB rating. No matter how hard you try, you can't make blood spurt from someones head in FB. No shotgun blasts to the face here. I don't really think that FB is any more violent than a Mario game to tell you the truth. Mario falls down bottomless pits, he gets shot dead by giant bullets, and turtles attack and kill him.

And no, I didn't appreciate the "surprise" either the first time it blasted through my speakers.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:48 PM
"and turtles attack and kill him"

Sorry but that just had me rolling around in fits of laughter!

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:57 PM
Its time to let this thread die. Hypocricy listens only to itself.

Don't bother putting out that smoke when you get around to telling your kids about the dangers of tobacco. You just look even more foolish... keep it lit and show them you mean business.. its YOUR house and YOUR rules by golly!



<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:58 PM
tagert wrote:
- Well I just wish parents teach thier kids about the
- world, instead of expecting the world to teach thier
- kids.

Seems more like they are simply trying to hide their kids from it, not have them taught by it. This is why this totally ridiculous censorship BS has gotten so out of control, since they a) won't take the time to actually get invovled with their kids, and b) want to hide the real world from their kids, suddenly the rest of us have to suffer by having everything dulled, padded, and sugar coated.

It's simply mind blowing how afraid people are of WORDS(!) for god's sake.

Then again, they are afraid of symbols too.


This is why (partly, at least) people suck. lol

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:59 PM
mmanager....Use windows built-in sound recorder to open the offending files and edit out what you don't like or record your own message. Just remember to save it in the same format that it is recorded in, Mpeg layer 3, 20 Kbits; 11,025Hz mono; 2kb/s. or it won't work at all.

They are located here:

\UbiSoft\ForgottenBattles\samples\Speech\US

The wav. file names will tell you which ones contain profanity..ie. "damn.wav".

It's a bit of work, but do-able
-------------------------------------------------------

A simple like this would have been a nice response to this thread.
When all you flamers have kids ,I hope they will tell you to go F**k yourselves at 6 yrs old , maybe then you will understand where he is coming from.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:10 PM
OOH, theres some crabby daddys in here. Dont come to NZ grandads, The F word is allowed on public TV and sneaks into radio all the time. Its up to the parents to educate their children otherwise its like blaming violent video games for all of societys sick twisted problems.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:14 PM
B.S._Lag wrote:
- A simple like this would have been a nice response
- to this thread.
- When all you flamers have kids ,I hope they will
- tell you to go F**k yourselves at 6 yrs old , maybe
- then you will understand where he is coming from.

Serious question, if I may...

What is wrong with them saying exactly that?

Now hold on, I'm serious. Is it the word choice, or is it intent/meaning?

The thing about language, certainly English and German, but I assume for all, is that there are *many* words that can be used almost interchangably. Some are better suited in certain contexts to better communicate an intent or emotion, but, really any of the proper meaning would work. Sometimes you don't have a choice because ya gotta go with what ya know.

Which brings me back to that question. If they were to use different words, but have the same intent/meaning when they said it to you, is that some how not as bad?

If so, why?

Because that gets into some sort of inherent evil of the word itself. Which could then only reside in the letters and sound of pronunciation, and further into the extremes of ridiculousness.

By-the-by, did you know that "vulgar" entered the language sometime after Hastings, by the "upper class", and actually means "common", as in "peasant" or "peasant-like". You didn't want to be "vulgar" if you were a "noble" afterall.

Rather interesting, isn't it? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:21 PM
-
The amount of swearing
- during WWII was indeed minimal. Men just didn't talk
- like that back then.
-

I suspect there was - and is - a big gap between British and American mores when it comes to strong language. Swearing was absolutely standard in the British armed forces. E.g. Fighter command pilots were chastised for their foul language over the intercom which was supposedly corrupting the poor WAAFS in the control rooms. I also recall with some fondness a story told by a very genteel lady who was working at an army base - she said she remembered a soldier once saying to her 'the f***ing f***er's f***ing f***ed'. (i.e. 'it's not working'.) This was done with no desire to shock, and without anger - the 'f' word was simply part of the natural rhythm of the squaddie's speech.

NTesla's forthcoming RAF speech pack contains infrequent strong language, in the interests of authenticity, but we have not used anything as strong as the example above.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:28 PM
Maybe we should have an aternate set of voice tracks
for download ? Think about it. These kids could be future
simers (Customers) The more the merrier in a small market like this.The language is such a small aspect of the sim.
I guess its the people who want oil stains under there computer stations that would flame.

S!

DerMadAdler

PS: Age appropriate of course 14 lets say

Message Edited on 11/07/0306:34PM by DerMadAdler1

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:31 PM
Wow im glad i dont play the single player...

thats very disturbing i did not know that this game had that kind of crap ..... i only play on line so i didnt know.

video game violence is one thing but tell how many kids have used the work "Fatality" from the old mortal combat series. yet they dont go around killing people. so dont give me the crap about "oh how can you complain about language when playing such a violent video game... boo hoo.. i want my disgusting language it makes me feel better. "wipe tear..."

I am personally upset with any referance to God with cursing but i can do with out the other. thier should be a way to turn it off as in other games. or just be gone all together. either way im very disapointed with Oleg and madox games. You would expect better out of them.

ps i dont have kids but i wouldnt let them play the english missions now. that way they wouldnt know what they were saying anyway.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:33 PM
BaldieJr wrote:

- I agree with you mostly. The amount of swearing
- during WWII was indeed minimal. Men just didn't talk
- like that back then.
-
- However, a for-profit game title has to live up to
- certain perceptions of its audience. I think this
- game strikes and excellent balance between real-life
- and customer expectation.
-
- About the statement "he's going to hell".... When
- you kill a man, you are judge, jury, and
- executioner. When your country takes the moral
- high-ground in the conflict (as they all do),
- assumption of damnation makes complete sense after
- murdering a man. Its a common rationale to demonize
- the enemy to lesson to impact of taking life.
-
- If you are going to be so sensitive, try playing
- Tetris instead.

------------------------------------------------

First and foremost, I'm not being sensitive I've been on these Ubi boards about 2+ years.

There is a way to deal with it...within IL2-FB just turn off the comms. and the written words of posters on these boards is even less a distraction. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It is a shame that some of the foul mouths don't realize the UBI-boards is not just about them. It's about a community of people with a common interest.

I don't think I've compromised a thing or de-famed myself by respecting others, including yourself...as possible. (as best I can)

------------------ /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:48 PM
I have been in the US Navy, and I can curse like a sailor, but I object to at least the US pack profanity in the game on two grounds that have nothing to do with prudishness. 1) It is not likely accurate in history, 2) It is not accurate in spirit.

At least as far as American pilots go, no matter their background, academy, reserve, enlisted-to-officer, they became professionals in their aircraft. Did people get exciteable on the air? Certainly. Would profanity laced tirades be tolerated by flight leaders when it didn't add any tactical advantage and cluttered the selected frequency? You can bet on it being squelched. Senior pilots in the USAAF and USN would not long tolerate some exciteable nugget spewing off this that and the other using profanity.

It is also not true to my experience in stressful military situations. Granted my limited experience comes from the bridge of a US warship and only listening to the officers there and on the comms over the net, but the simple fact of the matter is that it is exceedingly rare for profanity to be used in the heat of the moment. Even enlisted sailors, who can use the F-word as any part of speech in the English language, clean-up for general quarters comms and for ship-to-ship or ship-to-air. On my destroyer, we were at general quarters for real on several occassions. 1. The USS Stark incident in the northern Persian Gulf when we were on the next patrol zone south. 2. When the USS Vincennes mistakenly shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988. 3. Several skirmishes with machine-gun and rocket equipped Iranian speedboats, 4) Once during a night-time training collision between two supply ships.

During each incident, on the bridge, where I was at quarters, the prevailing mood both on our own ship and over the net, is one of detached calm. There simply is not the time nor the inclination for self-indulgent radio traffic. Yes the situations, might be hairy and the stress levels high, but the situation demands total focus, not a bunch of playground emotionalism and chest-beating, and the servicemen and officers overwhelmingly rise to the occassion.

After closely observing the manner of US Naval officers aboard ship and in aircraft over the radio, I find the IL-2 profanity to be wildly unrealistic and an indicator of what civilians imagine military radio traffic to be like from watching too many infantry movies, and having no actual exposure to the real tactical and strategic information exchanges that actually take place in combat or under stress.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:52 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:

- This is why (partly, at least) people suck. lol


Now this I do agree with!



<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:53 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- I am personally upset with any referance to God
- with cursing but i can do with out the other.

Well you got one thing right.. *personally*. Personally I find it strange that somone so into the word god and it miss use and turn around and find it very natural to pretent to kill people.. PERSONALLY!

So.. what is next on the list? The word GOD if at the top.. Is bomber nose art next?

I can just see it now.. the boy is too short to reach the joystick.. So dad slides the good book under his A to prop him up a little higher... Ok son.. now this is a joy stick.. here is the triger.. fly towards that bomber over there.. now get in real close.. OH MY GOD I CAN SEE HER BOOBIES! Son dont look! Look over there.. yes right there where and pull the trigger and put some 20mm into that rear gunners head...




<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:58 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- Wow im glad i dont play the single player...

Heeeeey wait a min... Have I just been TROLLED? I mean is it not stange that a guy by the name of WarGod is upset with the miss use of the word GOD? Hmmmmmmmmm

<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:58 PM
-
- I can just see it now.. the boy is too short to
- reach the joystick.. So dad slides the good book
- under his A to prop him up a little higher... Ok
- son.. now this is a joy stick.. here is the triger..
- fly towards that bomber over there.. now get in real
- close.. OH MY GOD I CAN SEE HER BOOBIES! Son dont
- look! Look over there.. yes right there where and
- pull the trigger and put some 20mm into that rear
- gunners head...
-
hehehehehehehe........

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:00 PM
thier is a big difference in shooting pixels into another pixel object and an actual recording of a real person useing curse words.
I dont expect you to comprehend this i just have to say it. I didnt ask for your approvel or understanding i was stating my opinion and my view on this particular subject.

Thank you.



"See sometimes in life you have to stand up for things even if your view isnt popular or understood. Its part of being a Man."

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:18 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- thier is a big difference in shooting pixels into
- another pixel object and an actual recording of a
- real person useing curse words.
- I dont expect you to comprehend this i just have to
- say it. I didnt ask for your approvel or
- understanding i was stating my opinion and my view
- on this particular subject.
-
-
- Thank you.

But you aren't rising to the challenge to explain why you have your views.

Why are you right? Why are we wrong? What's wrong with words? See my last post here for more. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:19 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- thier is a big difference in shooting pixels into
- another pixel object and an actual recording of a
- real person useing curse words.

I disagree.

- I dont expect you to comprehend this i just have to say it.

I expect that from you.

- I didnt ask for your approvel or understanding i
- was stating my opinion and my view
- on this particular subject.

As was I.

- Thank you.

Any time <h1>War GOD</h1>

So.. what time do we all show up for the book burnings?

<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:28 PM
Some very interesting discourse in this thread.

Some posts have talked about the difference between sheltering your children from bad things or discussing with them why they shouldn't use/say such things.

Its a hard one, every parent wishes to protect their offspring, its a natural instinct. Obviously this can be difficult.

We try not to swear in our house, it can be hard when the kids are driving you up the wall and you lose your temper :-) and we are not perfect but we do try. We also discuss with them the reasons for people's behaviour and why they shouldn't do certain things. This can be very difficult with a 3-year-old boy who just throws himself on the floor all the time, (cue Dad nearly swearing).

For instance, we don't like guns for the children (ok call me a hypocrite as I play IL2) but they just pick up sticks and run round shouting kill kill kill, sheesh, we can't win! Our boy did have a gun, it was an Action Man thing that fired orange bolts, all was fine until we were in a shop and he pointed it someone else and shouted kill kill, unlucky for me the ground did not open up and swallow me.

Counter this with the fact that I have grown up surrounded by guns and used to have several shotguns and a few rifles (including the appropriate licences) so I know the score and respect them completely. But me boy sure isn't going to have one of these until he's a little bit older, say 5 or six :-)

Also remember, what is good for parents is not always good for children, I have lived a quite a.. er shall we say interesting life and there are many many things I have done which I would go mental if my kids started doing it, but that is what being a parent is all about, you learn through your experience and then use this to educate and bring up your children in such a way as you feel correct.

Now I don't think games should be made completely violence free, I for one do not want to play a game about growing flowers or helping little fluffy animals cross the road (would rather drive over them) but there is a case for reducing the level of profanity or at least warning of its existence in a game. And when our kids are old enough to play on their own, I will be vetting each title first to check on its content, which is a good excuse for playing them.





Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."
<font color=59626b>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:32 PM
your point?

your laughable tagart.

adlabs6
11-07-2003, 08:40 PM
tagert wrote:
- WarGod5475 wrote:
-- thier is a big difference in shooting pixels into
-- another pixel object and an actual recording of a
-- real person useing curse words.
-
- I disagree.

I don't. There's a big difference between a virtual act and a real act. Moving a joystick and pressing the A button is not easy to pull off when you strolling through the mall. Yelling your favorite expletive is very easy and real in both the game and the mall.

I know guys who mainly play first person shooters, and they never slide around the floor with their finger pointed at me making rail gun noises with thier mouth. But they curse just same as they and other players do while playing the game, only it's out loud instead of typed.

You see, when you are a guest in public places, cussing like a sailor is often not welcome. You might even be asked to leave. Same as if you were sliding around on the floor with your finger pointed at people making rail gun noises.

What's the harm in a word DDT asks? Nothing. No word is forbidden or foul in itself. Some may not care if their children use every word in the book while they play house or store. But as a student of language, I would hope to instill a more usefull implementation of words and meaning. I mean, past a certain point, repeating an expletive every few sentances gets as shallow and annoying as someone who says "ya know?" or "uhhh" all the time. Both extremes are the result of the same lackings in education and understanding, and no one is doomed to such ends by default.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:42 PM
and by the way my name is in referance to the fact that i feel i am very good at war meaning a deity above others in the gameing world.

Not in referance to the Almighty.

my name should be self explanitory.

other wise i would have named myself Our God of vengance or somthing if i was in refernce to the father.

and want to hear about well what God are they talking about ingame... You and i both know that answer.

further more cant we both agree to disagree i cant possible understand your libral everything is ok mind.

you dont understand my outlook of borders and lines in this world.

and thats ok. this is a forume so we can discuss our opinions. i am in favor of the first poster you are not.

we have discussed our differances and our points of view it is obvious we wont change our stances. however my post was never meant to change anyones opinion only to highlight my reasons for my feelings. and to support the first poster.

If you feel the need to belittle me in someway fine its your right however nothing you can say or especially do is going to change my opinion.

as far as book burning leave that up to the left wing nazies.



Message Edited on 11/07/0307:48PM by WarGod5475

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:44 PM
100% adlabs

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:45 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- your point?

Point is your handle.. I find it odd that someone who is so offended by the use of the word GOD would have it in his handle? Do you realise that there are some people that would find the word GOD associated with the word WAR offsive? But that does not mater to you.. because what matters to you is what you find offensive.

- your laughable tagart.

It's a gift! From GOD! <G>




<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:49 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- and by the way my name is in referance to the fact
- that i feel i am very good at war meaning a deity
- above others in the gameing world.
-
- Not in referance to the Almighty.

Oooooooooo how very Very VERY convient! Well in that CASE the problem is solved.. See what you fail to realise is that the voices you here in IL2 are not refering to the Almighty!! They are refering to the shinny brass budha deity they placed in the **** pit for good luck! Feel better?


<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:49 PM
Funny your the fist person to say anything about my name.

most people are quick enough to understand it.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:51 PM
Man im sorry that was wrong i shouldnt have said that.
that was a little below the belt.

I apologize.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:51 PM
LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

1. The only bad word Ive heard is "God Damn" ... what's with the Sh!t and other words? LOL .. cmon guys dont blow it out of proportion.

2. Reminds me of the Swastika issue .. "don't let anyone see it and it will go away" ... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

If you guys think this game is the only place your kids or others are gonna hear these "bad" words .. you are terribly naive.

Do you take you kids to movies with R or PG or 14M ratings? If you feel they can handle the language etc. fine ... if not, you dont go.

I offer the same advice to games or TV... if you are worried about the language DONT BUY THE GAME ... The age rating is on the game .... OR dont play it when they're around.

<center>http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:51 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- Funny your the fist person to say anything about my
- name.
-
- most people are quick enough to understand it.

Maybe because this is the first time you complained about someone using the word god. I just found it funny.. I as in *personally* or are you the only one that can have an opinion around here?


<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:52 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
-left wing nazies

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif You really aren't making any sense.



tagert wrote:
- I can just see it now.. the boy is too short to
- reach the joystick.. So dad slides the good book
- under his A to prop him up a little higher... Ok
- son.. now this is a joy stick.. here is the triger..
- fly towards that bomber over there.. now get in real
- close.. OH MY GOD I CAN SEE HER BOOBIES! Son dont
- look! Look over there.. yes right there where and
- pull the trigger and put some 20mm into that rear
- gunners head...


Hehe, that's it in a nutshell right there.

I'm actually quite amazed now at some of the opinions in this thread. Sorry to focus in on you Wargod but as an example how on earth can hearing a very light curse in any way be worse than a cold hard virtual kill that you yourself initiated, calculated and then perpetrated?

It a bit of 'bad' language, to me as an atheist it isn't even that. Where does this lead then? How do the religious parents of this forum protect their little ones from 'profanity' whilst on a trip out? I mean really, you couldn't could you?





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:54 PM
update

"I am a hunter. When I have shot down an Englishman my hunter's passion is satisfied for a quater of an hour."
-Manfred Von Richtoffen

" I fear no over heat 'till the needle on both guages hits the nine...Then it's too late."
-Me


Me to the Smithsonian; "Wanna sell your 190D??"

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 08:54 PM
tagert wrote:

or are you the only one
- that can have an opinion around here?

Now your getting it. "wink"

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:00 PM
adlabs6 wrote:
- What's the harm in a word DDT asks? Nothing. No word
- is forbidden or foul in itself. Some may not care if
- their children use every word in the book while they
- play house or store. But as a student of language, I
- would hope to instill a more usefull implementation
- of words and meaning. I mean, past a certain point,
- repeating an expletive every few sentances gets as
- shallow and annoying as someone who says "ya know?"
- or "uhhh" all the time. Both extremes are the result
- of the same lackings in education and understanding,
- and no one is doomed to such ends by default.

And yet, you still haven't explained why so-called "foul" language ("vulgar" is far more telling actually), is so bad.

You claim that it's "shallow". So? Maybe it's style. Who are you to judge? And, if you wish to site the harm that could be done by being "shallow" in a job interview or some such, then explain why the non-"vulgar" end of things, while just as harmful in that context, is not seen as a problem by any censorship board (or proponent).

Speaking of which, let's look at censorship, shall we?

On TV and such, we see the "bad" words being censored out. Not the statements. And, often, the words are censored in such a way that you can hear either the beginning or end of them.

Now, we know what word was "covered" up, even heard part of it, and have the emotion and intent of not just the word, but the entire statement the word was a part of. But that's all ok? And the word itself, as a complete whole, is "bad"?

Sorry but...WTF?

Since nobody here has managed a single argument for why they are "bad" (beyond the half hearted and full of holes one above), I'll pose one. You feel it's "bad" because you were told to. Now you are passing it on because you don't Question Everything(tm) like a free thinking individual.

If something doesn't stand up to hard questioning, it is invalid. "Vulgar" language doesn't stand up to hard questioning.

My previous question still stands. If a kid saying "F**k off" to you (as a parent) is bad, how is it less bad if he/she said "screw off"? Or "step off" (milder, more modern, "hip-hop" version)? They mean the same thing. They are just playing the game and getting around it's BS rules.

The inconsistency and lack of logic borders on insane and infuriating. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:01 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- tagert wrote:
-
-- or are you the only one
-- that can have an opinion around here?
-
- Now your getting it. "wink"

typical.. when the members of a cult (relgion, etc) get to the point that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Bad things start to happen.. A closed mind is a dangerous thing.




<div style="width:800;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:04 PM
Brock.Landers wrote:
- WarGod5475 wrote:
--left wing nazies
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif You really aren't
- making any sense.

I was just gonna point that out. Says it all, doesn't it? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:05 PM
tagert wrote:
- WarGod5475 wrote:
-- tagert wrote:
--
--- or are you the only one
--- that can have an opinion around here?
--
-- Now your getting it. "wink"
-
- typical.. when the members of a cult (relgion, etc)
- get to the point that they are right and everyone
- else is wrong. Bad things start to happen.. A closed
- mind is a dangerous thing.

When people stop Questioning Everything(tm), cult mentalities can form. That is the truly dangerous thing.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:09 PM
Brock i understand where your comming from but if you going to say that killing someone in a video game is bad in some way then how come we all havent been sent to prison for premetated murder?

i mean with all the people trying to link videogames to violence then it is the next logical step to prosocute those that pratice and plane violence in videogames because we could possible use that knowledge in the real world.

when i kill and animal do i feel bad? Yes

when i kill a pixel cluster do i feel bad? No


When i drew soldiers killing other solders and a child
was i comitting murder of some kind No i was reinacting a
gone by era

When the civil war reinactors kill each other on the battle feild while performing a battle do they commit sin
or break the law no do they feel bad for doing it after no.

when a actor in a movie portrays a death or violent act do they do anything really bad no.

the point is a word in a game that didnt have to be thier for historical accuracy is annoying it should atleast be able to be turned off.

its fine if you want to fight for these things but some of us would like an option.

Let us make our stand. state our opinions and be done.

think about it. They wouldnt put horses in the game cause we might shoot them but they can use GD i mean if your going to go one way go all the way .....

dont half step.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:18 PM
well you guys can cry all you want but you know your wrong.

we need an option to edit the language.

just like in other games.

and if it were put up to vote you know we would win.

so continue with the bleeding and crying but were just trying to state our opinion.

were not trying to change anything so why are you so upset

was this thread started with a WE VOTE TO HAVE PROFANITY REMOVED FROM IL2 FORGOTTEN BATTLES!!!!!!

no it was a series of statements thay got you guys all upset and deffensive if you want to deffend profanity fine.
let me attack it.

how does it hurt anyone to express your thoughts and feelings?

we just wanted to say how we were dissapointed and then you guys started in on the i dont understand how you can say that crap.

In my country thier is fredom of speach. If this server is hosted in a country that does not support that let me know and i will stop giving my opinion.

thank you.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:21 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- well you guys can cry all you want but you know your
- wrong.
-
- we need an option to edit the language.
-
- just like in other games.
-
- and if it were put up to vote you know we would win.
-
- so continue with the bleeding and crying but were
- just trying to state our opinion.
-
- were not trying to change anything so why are you so
- upset
-
- was this thread started with a WE VOTE TO HAVE
- PROFANITY REMOVED FROM IL2 FORGOTTEN BATTLES!!!!!!
-
- no it was a series of statements thay got you guys
- all upset and deffensive if you want to deffend
- profanity fine.
- let me attack it.
-
- how does it hurt anyone to express your thoughts and
- feelings?
-
- we just wanted to say how we were dissapointed and
- then you guys started in on the i dont understand
- how you can say that crap.
-
- In my country thier is fredom of speach. If this
- server is hosted in a country that does not support
- that let me know and i will stop giving my opinion.
-
- thank you.

So what part of the *TEEN* rating on the box do they not understand?

<div style="width:800;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)">
<h2> TAGERT</h2>
<marquee><h3>If WAR was not the ANSWER........ Than what the H was your QUESTION?</h3></marquee>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:22 PM
Cpt-Madcowz wrote:
-
- We try not to swear in our house, it can be hard
- when the kids are driving you up the wall and you
- lose your temper :-) and we are not perfect but we
- do try.

Although I appreciate your good intent, I want badly to make the point my mother understood early in my life: you teach a child by example, not with instruction.

There are certain rules that apply, don't get me wrong. You have to say no to unhealthy habits, but you sure can't expect a child to not do something if you are doing it.

When you "try" to not loose your temper and curse, you are only teaching your child to surpress anger to the point where he no longer cares what other people think and ultimatly expresses it through ranting like a nut. This is unacceptable because your child will find that there are times when ranting like a nut will not change a damned thing in thier life.

Understand?

You don't "try" to not do things that are bad for kids, you simply don't do them.

If this guy doesn't want his kids to hear cursing, he needs to make certain that he does not do it himself. And, more to the point of this whole thread, it seems completely rediculous to make a point of complaining about the language when the game just happens to be all about simulated killing.

I respect his view, but I also think he's being overly sensitve.

<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:23 PM
cannot believe how many ppl jumped at critisizing the original poster

he doesnt like profanity

& he gets dumped on by ppl with derogatory replys

shows what kind of ppl post messages at this forum .....

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:29 PM
ok tagert ill give you that. I know nothing about the rateings i didnt even know what ratting this game had.

when i saw a game of ww2 i never even thought it might have profanity in it.

its widley known alot of allied and german aces never used
profanity. so i just never thought about it.

i normally dont even look at rattings of games i dont have much use for them because of the way they are set up .

for instance if teen ratting means it can have foul language but you cant shoot horses that makes no sensce to me but what ever i dont want to shoot horses but i would expect a game with foul language to be ratted for adults only.

but what would be so bad about haveing a option to shut it off like other games.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:32 PM
WarGod5475 wrote:
- well you guys can cry all you want but you know your
- wrong.

We are correct. You are illogical.


- no it was a series of statements thay got you guys
- all upset and deffensive if you want to deffend
- profanity fine.

We are (at least *I* am) not defending "profanity", we are defending *sanity*, and logic.


- let me attack it.

Fine, but please do more than just say "it's wrong and needs to be an option", or grouse about people demanding more than just that from you.

This board has deemed that behavior "whining", because you are presenting an upset, negative opinion with no facts or logic or evidence to back it up in anyway.


- how does it hurt anyone to express your thoughts and
- feelings?

How does it hurt anyone to hear "vulgar" language?


- In my country thier is fredom of speach. If this
- server is hosted in a country that does not support
- that let me know and i will stop giving my opinion.

That same freedom allows others to deride you for spouting off nonsense.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:35 PM
Duff4r ..........~S~

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_sniper2.gif
U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:41 PM
This thread is "GOIN NOWHERE". /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

This a never settled issue, just like complaining about whiners... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

----------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:42 PM
"Where you goin'? NOWHERE!"

Little Boondock Saints there Nearmiss? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Actually, it's been quite civil, and rather entertaining.

If it gets bogged down and "goes nowhere" it will because the opposition stubbornly refuses to provide more than "because" as an answer (if even that much).

So long as they do more than that and it remains civil, it may end up being quite informative. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:47 PM
Stop saying "profanity" its damned annoying i mean you don't have to act like the BBFC all the time your not censoring damned movies!

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:54 PM
Howabout one of the pro-porfanity experts here go on about why profanity at all adds to the game. Is it realism? Hardly. Is it cool? Ear of the beholder.

I could care less why the words in question are "bad" or not. My question is what is gained through their use? Do they convey more information? Do they enlighten you as to the virtual pilot's problem? Curses are just useless subject or verb modifiers that are annoyingly redundant and indicative of someone without the wits to express himself otherwise. Someone exhibiting that level of a lack of self-control or thought articulation is not someone I'd want watching my six.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:56 PM
Mmmm it is good to hear others opinions. At the moment they just seem a little too muddled to bother replying to.

In my experience threads that involve statements based on religious dogma like this one usually heat up hot enough to fry an egg on. Narrowness of vision or lack of free thought certainly gets me heated up!
At the moment though this one is petering out since no-one can tell us why children hearing a virtual 'cus' as opposed to children perpetrating a virtual kill is somehow worse. There seems to be some sort of counter argument involving dead cows but I'm not quite getting it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:59 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- Actually, it's been quite civil, and rather
- entertaining.
-
- If it gets bogged down and "goes nowhere" it will
- because the opposition stubbornly refuses to provide
- more than "because" as an answer (if even that
- much).
-
- So long as they do more than that and it remains
- civil, it may end up being quite informative.

Personally, I'm hoping it will degrade into a mud-slingging flamefest. I won't be responsible for it, but I can assure you that I'll troll with this exact same subject matter sometime in the near future.

As an ACE who can score at will, I find it increasingly difficult to protect my children from foul language. You see, triming my craft to allow precision flight is extremely frustrating, and I often find myself saying things I normally would not say. Of course my children hear this offensive language and repeat it in school, causing distress within our happy home. Clearly, trim should be fixed as it is undermining the sanctity of the family unit. It makes me want to kill someone! Usually, instead of killing people, or beating my children senseless, I just sign onto HL with my ACE-NAME where "those in the know" can watch me kill lesser pilots at will.

Clearly, someone needs to be held accountable for my foul language.



<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:00 PM
Dead Cows?

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:08 PM
NavyFlyer wrote:
- Howabout one of the pro-porfanity experts here go on
- about why profanity at all adds to the game. Is it
- realism? Hardly. Is it cool? Ear of the beholder.

Ok, now you are just trying to spin it.

I've not seen the most frequent posters in this thread claim that it should remain in the game or that it's cool or anything like that.

A few have said it's historical, but just as many have presented impressive *looking* credentials as to why it's not. Really, the most frequent contributors, on this side of the fence, are saying that it's a double standard to have such reservations about a few words, and not about acting out the taking of human life. Virtual or otherwise.

Now, I personally don't attribute any harm to video game "violence" as it seems most of your side are not (surprisingly). But I also don't attribute any harm to any words either. And I have tried. I have wondered, for so long, why there is such hatred for a few words. I have searched for what could possibly be wrong with them, and have hit upon something interesting in history, but it's hinged on class rivalry, and therefore means that the concept of "vulgar" language is not legittimate.

At anyrate, another way of looking at the possible duality of being sensitive to language but not the actions of the game - the counter has been that people don't go around killing people, but they do go around cursing. Well......why don't the kids emulate the actions? Why don't they try to jump off the house to be like Wile E Coytote? I'm thinking probably because they can differentiate between reality and fantasy (and better than most give them credit for). So, if they can be taught and understand that difference, why can't they be taught or understand that the "cursing" is part of that fantasy, and another thing to not be emulated? (unless they innately understand that it's not actually harmfull. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif - but sesriously though.....)


- I could care less why the words in question are
- "bad" or not. My question is what is gained through
- their use? Do they convey more information? Do they
- enlighten you as to the virtual pilot's problem?
- Curses are just useless subject or verb modifiers
- that are annoyingly redundant and indicative of
- someone without the wits to express himself
- otherwise. Someone exhibiting that level of a lack
- of self-control or thought articulation is not
- someone I'd want watching my six.

Which, once again, brings me back to the question, why? Why do you have such a problem with them or their use? And why won't any of you answer the question directly?

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:11 PM
Baldie, while that is amusing, it's counter-productive dude. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:14 PM
I rather like the german screaming down the radio

Schießer blah balh blah its more realistic than the American

Damn..... ive been hit..... cup of coffee anyone its got no character or sense of urgency

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:17 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:
- Dead Cows?
-
- Wilhelm

Horses, I meant horses. Sorry I have dead cows on the brain at the moment due to COD /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



Blitz, I can't think of any way to say this that doesn't sound patronising, possibly because it is, but I suspect the reason no-one can anwser the question is because they have never been forced to justify why before. It's akin to people voting a particular way politically 'because my parents did', and GD it its just not good enough!





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:19 PM
hey I may be mad but I sure as aint Dead yet


:-)


/Mad

Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."
<font color=59626b>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:27 PM
Ah CoD im picking it up tomorrow stuff IL2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:32 PM
Brock.Landers wrote:
- Blitz, I can't think of any way to say this that
- doesn't sound patronising, possibly because it is,
- but I suspect the reason no-one can anwser the
- question is because they have never been forced to
- justify why before. It's akin to people voting a
- particular way politically 'because my parents did',
- and GD it its just not good enough!

DDT. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


But, yeah, you're right. I've been in such debates quite a bit over the years and have always steadfastly posed this questions. Best I've ever heard as an "answer" is a flustered "because it is". lol Some try what NavyFlyer did though, to spin it and thereby deflect it.

I just didn't want to come out and say it because people get upset by it. In fact, I've got a number of terms that very accurately describe it, but most are all but guarenteed to upset. lol

I'm just hoping that something will break if I just sit patiently and keep pressing for an answer. Better than starting a flame fest at any rate. (which the stuff I mentioned above would. lol /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:37 PM
this thread has kind of lost its fomer sting its rather like a limp sock now.

Wilhelm

adlabs6
11-07-2003, 10:43 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- And yet, you still haven't explained why so-called
- "foul" language ("vulgar" is far more telling
- actually), is so bad.

Firstly, I have chosen my words in this thread with care. I have not indicated that my opinion of any word is "vulgar". I so far have only referred to them with the common collective term "profanity", used to illustrate the "common group" of words without the need to list them all. Yet you have called me out to explain something I have not proclaimed. Why? But I will play along here... My statement, from my last post, concerning so called "vulgar" words was again:

I wrote:
What's the harm in a word DDT asks? Nothing. No word is forbidden or foul in itself.


- You claim that it's "shallow". So? Maybe it's style.
- Who are you to judge? And, if you wish to site the
- harm that could be done by being "shallow" in a job
- interview or some such, then explain why the
- non-"vulgar" end of things, while just as harmful in
- that context, is not seen as a problem by any
- censorship board (or proponent).

Yes, in most cases, those who tend to use very narrow vocabularies (vulgar or not) that I've spoken with tend to exhibit a lack of grasp of deeper self expression. Who am I to judge? When anyone speaks or acts, all that hear and see are his judge. The same as when we judge who we take as friends, there is nothing self righteous in this. Notice that neither here nor in my previous post have I said this only refers to "vulgar" language only. Read my last post again...

I wrote:
Both extremes are the result of the same lackings in education and understanding, and no one is doomed to such ends by default.

Both extremes, which is words both considered vulgar and not. Yes, it can be used as a verbal or written style. Language used as art was not my topic. I've never carried on a conversation with anyone who was speaking only for arts sake. Effective communication was my intent. And since you mention it, many employers intents also. Any failure to effectively convey ideas to the intended audience as required by the job due to ANY problems is the employers concern. Stammering and getting lost during a presentation and cussing in the drive thru window will both garner complaints from the audience. Why? Because people have the right to not like what they don't want to like.

Next, you ask me to explain the logic of all censorship boards in comparison to this statement. I can't do that. I'm not on all censorship boards, and I won't generalize my way through what I'm not a part of.


- Speaking of which, let's look at censorship, shall
- we?
-
- On TV and such, we see the "bad" words being
- censored out. Not the statements. And, often, the
- words are censored in such a way that you can hear
- either the beginning or end of them.
-
- Now, we know what word was "covered" up, even heard
- part of it, and have the emotion and intent of not
- just the word, but the entire statement the word was
- a part of. But that's all ok? And the word itself,
- as a complete whole, is "bad"?
-
- Sorry but...WTF?

This is correct. Censorship on television is one of the biggest messes I've seen. Inconsistent, imprecise, and as you indicate, ineffective.

- Since nobody here has managed a single argument for
- why they are "bad" (beyond the half hearted
- and full of holes one above), I'll pose one. You
- feel it's "bad" because you were told to. Now you
- are passing it on because you don't Question
- Everything(tm) like a free thinking individual.

Is this statement aimed at me?

You wrote:
(beyond the half hearted and full of holes one above)

Again I don't see how, as I didn't offer any arguments on why any word is bad.

I don't sit around and feel "bad" when someone uses vulgar language. Nobody told me to feel "bad" about words. My personal opinion is that those words that are most often selected for impulsive, hurtful language are those that I would caution a child against using in a "lashing out" manner. The common list of "profanities" are most commonly used to loosely and quickly form a negative opinion of someone or something. Saying those words to others does not really express any valid feelings, which are always much more complex than such simple language can illustrate.

This is the most important bit to me. Passing on the insight to understand the way one feels and the reasons why. I don't care if a kid is yelling "chicken head" at someone they're mad at (and notice I say mad, as in an agressive way), that "term" goes on the profanity list for me. It's just because I don't want to further that sort of mindset, which won't do any good later on when relation ships get more complex than playing ball.

And before you try to add words like "a, an, the" ect. to the list of profanity, think about it. If the word "internet" became a racial slur that had gained widespread use, it too would likely get some half-baked attention in the TV censors minds. The reality is that most words considered profanities don't get much use in higher conversation, and it's NOT because of any percieved "badness". It's because they, and some other adjectives really are ineffective in describing what the speaker is expressing. Saying that a buick has a "big flywheel" works, but it's not as well as it could be said.

- My previous question still stands. If a kid saying
- "F**k off" to you (as a parent) is bad, how is it
- less bad if he/she said "screw off"? Or "step off"
- (milder, more modern, "hip-hop" version)? They mean
- the same thing. They are just playing the game and
- getting around it's BS rules.

Read above, this means that there's more to be said, by the kid, and the parent. And don't forget the value of different words in expressing level of excitement. If a kid says "leave me alone" to a parent, or instead "buzz off" or "F off", in my assesment, those statements are not the same thing. Each expresses a greated feeling of separation, and eventual animosity toward the parent. They all do mean "leave the room please and stop bothering me" but if the kid is consciouly choosing his words, the reasons are different for each. Again, refer to where I speak about not "lashing" with words that are quick, easy and very sharp. It steals depth of expression.

- If something doesn't stand up to hard questioning,
- it is invalid. "Vulgar" language doesn't stand up to
- hard questioning.
-
- The inconsistency and lack of logic borders on
- insane and infuriating.

This is often true, and I try to make sure that the hard questioning is driving in the right direction.

In the end, the poster of this thread doesn't like something. Fine. I didn't come in here to pick apart his logic. I applaud him for walking the talk. Even if misguided in the eyes of some, it's better than teaching apathy and hypocracy.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:43 PM
B16Enk wrote:
- I had to chuckle, and he's right you have to be
- careful with kids.
-
- And their teachers too.
-
- My 7 year old boy lost his morning break because he
- called one of his m8's a 'Plonker'..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
-
-


Plonkers???

http://www.freewebs.com/rc_tips_and_hints/Sentry%20Duty%20663rd.jpg

My Little Buddy protects my Focke-Wulf at night.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:51 PM
As much as the human need for categorization must drive a need to have just "two sides" to this debate, I object to the characterization when it comes to what I wrote. I am not "spinning" on profanity, but I am coming at it from a different angle than the one you are attempting to criticize.

First of all, I have established that I have no problem with curses in general. Words only hurt the overly sensitive, no matter what the words are. By the same token, I believe the swastika ban, especially as it is applied to the Finnish planes, for which the swastika bears no Nazi association whatsoever, is the byproduct of one of the most stupid laws I have ever heard of.

And likewise, I have no problem with representative killing and destruction in the video game. If anything, the game is not realistic at all in regard to the human cost of warfare, the actual depiction of which might either serve to underscore the horror of war, or desensitize one to it, depending upon whom you choose to believe among the psychiatric set.

Perhaps I am coming to this issue from what could be called an "elitist" perspective. First, I have stated I think the profanity is an unrealistic, cartoonish, depiction of the professionalism of pilots flying life-and-death battles. Screaming all the way down? Yeah I can believe that happened. Casually congratulating "Good shot one, he's going to h_ll." or "God___it six, stay with your leader." over and over and over, is not realistic.

The default then, should be no swearing in the game, especially one with kids, (as amply evidenced on this forum daily) playing it. Sure, they will hear the words elsewhere, and sure, video game depictions of violence and death adversely affect young people without much cranial matter, but if one wants a dialogue that is in all likelihood not that realistic at all, the end user should have to put it in, not take it out. If one wants a game with actor voices spewing language worthy only of a bad Japanese animation piece, let him edit the sound files to do it.

If it can't get past the filter here, it shouldn't be in the game either.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 10:51 PM
plonker is slang English from London which has the sense of mild, affectionate abuse.

Immortalised in a comedy series here.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:17 PM
Plonker = nothing any kid could get his morning break taken from him for unless it was either a public or a catholic school.


Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:19 PM
Ok, this is now the new "best I've heard in response" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


adlabs6 wrote:
- BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
-- And yet, you still haven't explained why so-called
-- "foul" language ("vulgar" is far more telling
-- actually), is so bad.
-
- Firstly, I have chosen my words in this thread with
- care. I have not indicated that my opinion of any
- word is "vulgar". I so far have only referred to
- them with the common collective term "profanity",
- used to illustrate the "common group" of words
- without the need to list them all. Yet you have
- called me out to explain something I have not
- proclaimed. Why? But I will play along here... My
- statement, from my last post, concerning so called
- "vulgar" words was again:

To people, as a whole, "profanity", "vulgarity", "foul languages", "cussing", "cursing" and many more are completely interchangable. Even though by definition they are not. As pointed out by others above, "profane" has religious tones in it. IMO, "vulgarity" is more accurate and more telling of it's origins.



-- You claim that it's "shallow". So? Maybe it's style.
-- Who are you to judge? And, if you wish to site the
-- harm that could be done by being "shallow" in a job
-- interview or some such, then explain why the
-- non-"vulgar" end of things, while just as harmful in
-- that context, is not seen as a problem by any
-- censorship board (or proponent).
-
- Yes, in most cases, those who tend to use very
- narrow vocabularies (vulgar or not) that I've spoken
- with tend to exhibit a lack of grasp of deeper self
- expression. Who am I to judge? When anyone speaks or
- acts, all that hear and see are his judge. The same
- as when we judge who we take as friends, there is
- nothing self righteous in this. Notice that neither
- here nor in my previous post have I said this only
- refers to "vulgar" language only. Read my last post
- again...

You say "in most cases". This indicates that there is not necessarly a direct causality between those words and the "lack of grasp of deeper self expression" you mention.

That could also be seen as stereo-typing, or predjudice.

That aside, when we are speaking about a video game, there is no judging to be done. If you still desire it to be an option, that means it bothers you to simply hear the words. That would seem to indicate more than bad experience with certain types that use them. That "something else" is what I'm after.



- I wrote:
- Both extremes are the result of the same lackings
- in education and understanding, and no one is doomed
- to such ends by default.
-
- Both extremes, which is words both considered vulgar
- and not.

But what I had brought up, but may have been missed, is that people don't get up in arms if their kids hear, or repeat other forms of poor language skills. Only those particular words. Why?



- Yes, it can be used as a verbal or written
- style. Language used as art was not my topic. I've
- never carried on a conversation with anyone who was
- speaking only for arts sake.

By "style" I refer to something other than art. Think 'slang'. Terminology is just as much a part of style as wardrobe really. Ever seen someone dress like a gansta' rapper and speak like a harvard yuppie at the same time? It wouldn't work. And they certainly would not be accepted by the group they chose to be a part of (regardless of which it was).



- Effective communication
- was my intent.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Not in this country. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif lol Nobody says what they mean or mean what they say. It's downright infuriating at times.



- And since you mention it, many
- employers intents also. Any failure to effectively
- convey ideas to the intended audience as required by
- the job due to ANY problems is the employers
- concern. Stammering and getting lost during a
- presentation and cussing in the drive thru window
- will both garner complaints from the audience.

Yes. And this is the only place that I can see any "harm" being done whatsoever from the use of any such terms. But even then, it has a deeper issue. If the popluation wasn't so, well, frankly programmed, to view such words with disdain, it would be a non-issue. However, it's perfectly doable to get kids to understand that sometimes they do need to "play the game" (referring to language and society, not FB, although....... lol). Eventually they learn it on their own, in a case of sink or swim anyway, so it would seem more productive for a parent to contribute to that than to try to sheild their kids from reality.



- Why?
- Because people have the right to not like what they
- don't want to like.

True, but, there are reasons why people don't like things. Even if they don't know what they are themselves. However, as we aren't talking about isolated individual words, or colors or something like that, this is something that can actually be discovered, because it's not "wiring". It's learned behavior.



- Next, you ask me to explain the logic of all
- censorship boards in comparison to this statement. I
- can't do that. I'm not on all censorship boards, and
- I won't generalize my way through what I'm not a
- part of.

Only to the extent that I referenced above. You equate "those words" with constant use of "um" and "like" in speech. Censors do not. This implies that there is something more than just "poor language skills" at the heart of this matter.



- I don't sit around and feel "bad" when someone uses
- vulgar language.

But you do have an opinion that their use is bad. Enough so to defend the position of the thread starter. Right?


- Nobody told me to feel "bad" about
- words.

You're parents never told you about "bad words"? I find that hard to beleive.



- My personal opinion is that those words that
- are most often selected for impulsive, hurtful
- language are those that I would caution a child
- against using in a "lashing out" manner. The common
- list of "profanities" are most commonly used to
- loosely and quickly form a negative opinion of
- someone or something. Saying those words to others
- does not really express any valid feelings, which
- are always much more complex than such simple
- language can illustrate.

Who are you to say that those feelings they are used to express are not valid? Rage and violence is part of what humans are.



- This is the most important bit to me. Passing on the
- insight to understand the way one feels and the
- reasons why. I don't care if a kid is yelling
- "chicken head" at someone they're mad at (and notice
- I say mad, as in an agressive way), that "term" goes
- on the profanity list for me. It's just because I
- don't want to further that sort of mindset, which
- won't do any good later on when relation ships get
- more complex than playing ball.

Repressing emotion is a bad thing. Again, it's trying to deny what we really are, and will just cause other problems down the road. And, is all part of why our society is so screwed up, but that's another debate. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



- And before you try to add words like "a, an, the"
- ect. to the list of profanity, think about it. If
- the word "internet" became a racial slur that had
- gained widespread use, it too would likely get some
- half-baked attention in the TV censors minds. The
- reality is that most words considered profanities
- don't get much use in higher conversation, and it's
- NOT because of any percieved "badness". It's because
- they, and some other adjectives really are
- ineffective in describing what the speaker is
- expressing. Saying that a buick has a "big flywheel"
- works, but it's not as well as it could be said.

I disagree with this. It sounds like you just have a negative opinion of them and force everything to fit it. Those words have their place just as well as any other. And it is necessary to convey ire. Both for external and internal reasons. Those words often help for both, but particularly the internal reasons. Trying to choose other vocabulary is much more like internalizing and that adds to the potential explosive force.

Also, referencing "effective communication" again. The more quickly emotions or thoughts or concepts are conveyed, the more effective the communication. This is largely based on ones "audience" as well. Being Shakespear won't help if you are dealing with a bunch of "thugs" (in the MTV sense)



- Read above, this means that there's more to be said,
- by the kid, and the parent. And don't forget the
- value of different words in expressing level of
- excitement. If a kid says "leave me alone" to a
- parent, or instead "buzz off" or "F off", in my
- assesment, those statements are not the same thing.
- Each expresses a greated feeling of separation, and
- eventual animosity toward the parent. They all do
- mean "leave the room please and stop bothering me"
- but if the kid is consciouly choosing his words, the
- reasons are different for each. Again, refer to
- where I speak about not "lashing" with words that
- are quick, easy and very sharp. It steals depth of
- expression.

Which is what I said above. You claimed their use is not valid as a means of expression, but their "strength" is exactly what makes them valid.

As for the rest, "stealing depth of expression" and what not. Hardly any care about that. More often than not you will just talk over peoples heads, or come off as a stuck up snot, and that, to a kid, will be more harmful than anything as it will create an outcast.



- In the end, the poster of this thread doesn't like
- something. Fine. I didn't come in here to pick apart
- his logic. I applaud him for walking the talk. Even
- if misguided in the eyes of some, it's better than
- teaching apathy and hypocracy.

Walking the walk? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Advocating inconsistency and lack of logic is as bad as those, if not worse. And that's what he, and his allies are doing.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:31 PM
Too bad there isn't too much profanity in the Russian texts. As Russians say: "I speak two languages: Russian and swear Russian"!

acesea886
11-07-2003, 11:33 PM
Well,Put me in the BibleThumper bunch.I spent four year in the Navy and cussed with the best of them.But over the years I hope I have grown up some and gotten over being impress with the use of and need to use profanity.It's kinda like lighting up your first cigarette it impresses you a lot more than the people around you.JMHO

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:35 PM
...and I miss my favourite Hungarian expression (most ambitious profanity I've ever heard): "Az Isten b***** a k***** a******!"...

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:36 PM
Wilhelm_Hartas wrote:
- Plonker = nothing any kid could get his morning
- break taken from him for unless it was either a
- public or a catholic school.
-
-
-
- Wilhelm

er no,

any normal school would do the same, esp our local primary school down the road. They wouldn't stand for this. Kids can't go around calling their teachers c0cks/*****'s etc


Plonker:
"an idiot, fool or a word for *****. Popularized by the UK TV comedy 'Only fools and horses'. i.e. "Rodney you total plonker !", or "You're pulling my plonker". "




Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."
<font color=59626b>

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:40 PM
Yeah i know what you mean in public swearing makes you look like a moron. But i dunno its kind of enhances the atmosphere on games putting more stress and emotion into an action packed scene.

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:51 PM
The funniest topic of the week! I couldn't imagine Mr. Flanders really existed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Frankly, look at these guys:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/338967/VF-17pilots.jpg


I can't imagine that they didn't use tons of "profanity" words in their cockpits!

Cheers,


P.S. Don't worry, your boys have already learnt much more uglier words at school /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 11:55 PM
What a dumb thread.

Go play The Sims: Barbie Doll Expansion if you are for real.

You don't belong in a game where people blow each other up.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:04 AM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/gladihad_01.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:10 AM
- Perhaps I am coming to this issue from what could be
- called an "elitist" perspective. First, I have
- stated I think the profanity is an unrealistic,
- cartoonish, depiction of the professionalism of
- pilots flying life-and-death battles. Screaming all
- the way down? Yeah I can believe that happened.
- Casually congratulating "Good shot one, he's going
- to h_ll." or "God___it six, stay with your leader."
- over and over and over, is not realistic.
-
The bit of this that struck a chord with me is the 'over and over' bit. You're right, this does create a sense of caricature. It's a limitation of the restricted number of voice files, and it gives these phrases undue and unrealistic prominence. Your observations of what really gets said on active service were useful and interesting. But at the end of the day I think it's unrealistic to think that foul language would not occur over the radio in WW2 combat situations. You are dealing with often with very young men, often teenagers, who may have been through very rapid training (thus strict radio discipline may not be very deeply ingrained), communicating with people who they are very close to, continuously going through periods of incredible stress; watching their friends die daily, risking death daily.

Of course people weren't roaring through the skies cursing constantly. Of course people would usually be calm and follow proper procedures. But to be brutal for a second, if you're roasting alive and your mic is open, you will not be watching your language. If you watch your friend die and you're at snapping point with battle fatigue, use of profanity would surely not be impossible.

All I can say is that in memoirs and autobiographies I have read of RAF wartime experience, swearing on air does happen. Johnnie Johnson in 'Wing Leader' refers to it happening extenesively. I recall a story - I think it was in Jack Currie's 'Lancaster Target', but forgive me if I don't spend half an hour checking the reference - of a master bomber on a Lanc raid telling the bombers to get in closer and not be afraid of the flak, and the air turning blue with people telling him to shut up. These stories are not hollywood fantasy; in films I don't see pilots swear.

The Second World War included a vast range of experience, behaviour and norms. In some situations swearing may have been very rare. I can accept that may have been the usual case in the USAAF; I don't know enough about the service's culture at that time. But what is the basis of a generalisation like 'its widley known alot of allied and german aces never used profanity'? [WarGod] NEVER? That doesn't sound like any military service on my planet. And even if we grant 'alot' didn't use profanity, that still means that some did.


So much for the historical reality. As far as the game goes, I'm frankly surprised this issue has raised such strong feeling. The language seems rather tame to me. But I fully respect that other people may have other tastes. I recommend that these people go into their speech folders and simply delete the offending wav files.

Check the following.
(There may be different wording in different actor files. If you find any acceptable to you, you can copy them , rename and use those wavs to replace deleted ones.)

Damn what are you doing
hell1, hell2, hell3, hell4
the bail out messages (they begin with i_m)

There's probably one or two more but those are the main offenders.



This isn't a game for small children and the language would seem innocuous to the vast majority of teenagers. For me personally it seems faintly obscene to try to make war a little more tasteful, a little more acceptable, by trying to edit out the cuss words, and I would resent an attempt to censor the game as released. It does smack rather of the no swastika nonsense. But each to their own. Just by spending a few minutes with the speech folders you remove the profanity.

Excuse the long post but I teach English for a living so this is a topic of interest to me.



Edited for typos


Message Edited on 11/07/0311:14PM by mikeyg007

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:20 AM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ---> http://www.danford.net/newguine.htm



--------------------------

RBJ wrote::
-- What a dumb thread.
-- Go play The Sims: Barbie Doll Expansion if you are for real.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
...."The NEW Barbie Birth Control playset!" ~JohnSteed


Very bottom pic, right hand side---> http://www.glitterrock.org/lexx39.html

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:31 AM
The general swearing does not really bother me. However, the use of GD is the only one that really seems out of place and offensive.

<center>
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/151sig.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat/
JOIN OUR SQUAD TODAY!
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1banner.gif

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/il2homepage.html

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:33 AM
What a mormon, can one say that? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:34 AM
I'd only point out that it was my position that on the air cursing was likely at a minimum in the USN and USAAF, my thoughts as to why would center on the fact that there were very precious few "teenagers" put into the position of flying a plane in those two forces and the services were not going to throw the demonstrated punks into the cockpits of fighters.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:39 AM
I thought I read somewhere on this forum that RBJ was a simm of a popular DJ actively practicing birth control cuz all the hoochies can't stop fixating on his unibrow long enough to hook'm up?

Or did I hear wrong?

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:39 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- I don't sit around and feel "bad" when someone uses
- vulgar language. Nobody told me to feel "bad" about
- words. My personal opinion is that those words that
- are most often selected for impulsive, hurtful
- language are those that I would caution a child
- against using in a "lashing out" manner. The common
- list of "profanities" are most commonly used to
- loosely and quickly form a negative opinion of
- someone or something. Saying those words to others
- does not really express any valid feelings, which
- are always much more complex than such simple
- language can illustrate.
-
- This is the most important bit to me.

OK, in answer to your most important bit, I think it's obvious you simply don't use this language yourself. Obvious because you don't seem to have a clear idea of HOW it is used day to day in conversation. F**kin A! for example most definitely can express a valid feeling, it need not be a particularly clever or complex term. Its just human interraction in a different form than you've chosen to use yourself, no harm done between consenting adults. I'm not now going to say that you can't then have an opinion on it but perhaps it could be slightly more flexible?



NavyFlyer wrote:
- The default then, should be no swearing in the game,
- especially one with kids, (as amply evidenced on
- this forum daily) playing it. Sure, they will hear
- the words elsewhere, and sure, video game depictions
- of violence and death adversely affect young people
- without much cranial matter, but if one wants a
- dialogue that is in all likelihood not that
- realistic at all, the end user should have to put it
- in, not take it out.

No, the default then should take its que from the TEEN rating that is on the box. There is a mix of opinion here about whether soldiers swore in the heat of it or not. a good average or compromise if you will would be to say that some did and some didn't. And a realistic depiction of war would then need to include it if it wanted to be taken seriously. It is simply bad parenting to let your children play this game, go buy FS2004 and let them loose on that if they enjoy flying, I would.





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:56 AM
profanity exists not only in the speech but on the planes as well. a certain default paintscheme and other 'questionable' bomb art have both been in the game since the release and people have yet to comment about it.

it's entirely possible nobody has noticed but the bomb art thing sure seems like something the programmers slipped in rather than an authentic ww2 item.

<center>http://www.il2airracing.com/images/IL2AirRacing.gif (http://www.il2airracing.com/)</center>

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 12:56 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
-
- To people, as a whole, "profanity", "vulgarity",
- "foul languages", "cussing", "cursing" and many more
- are completely interchangable. Even though by
- definition they are not. As pointed out by others
- above, "profane" has religious tones in it. IMO,
- "vulgarity" is more accurate and more telling of
- it's origins.

Yep. And FB has a phrase which some consider to be profane, which is why I called it that.

- You say "in most cases". This indicates that there
- is not necessarly a direct causality between those
- words and the "lack of grasp of deeper self
- expression" you mention.
-
- That could also be seen as stereo-typing, or
- predjudice.

I'm now stereo-typing or prejudiced? Whoa, pushing me hard to the corner eh? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Seriously, I said most cases because some people use such language for other reasons. My uncle is one who does. Always reliegous profanities from him. One day we talked, and he said he did it only to annoy my Mom. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


- But what I had brought up, but may have been missed,
- is that people don't get up in arms if their kids
- hear, or repeat other forms of poor language skills.
- Only those particular words. Why?

I have no idea why they don't get upset. It bugs me though, so I try to make it right when I can. Oh, and no, not ONLY those words!


- By "style" I refer to something other than art.
- Think 'slang'. Terminology is just as much a part of
- style as wardrobe really. Ever seen someone dress
- like a gansta' rapper and speak like a harvard
- yuppie at the same time? It wouldn't work. And they
- certainly would not be accepted by the group they
- chose to be a part of (regardless of which it was).

Yes. More people choosing language for other reasons. Like my uncle.


- Yes. And this is the only place that I can see any
- "harm" being done whatsoever from the use of any
- such terms. But even then, it has a deeper issue. If
- the popluation wasn't so, well, frankly programmed,
- to view such words with disdain, it would be a
- non-issue. However, it's perfectly doable to get
- kids to understand that sometimes they do need to
- "play the game" (referring to language and society,
- not FB, although....... lol). Eventually they learn
- it on their own, in a case of sink or swim anyway,
- so it would seem more productive for a parent to
- contribute to that than to try to sheild their kids
- from reality.

I can see it now. At the drive thru, no one is programmed with disdain. Guy in the window asks me (with outstretched middle fingers /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ) what I'd like to eat, complete with all manner of four letter condements. I answer likewise. Could get kinda wordy, maybe we'll need to programmed with patience instead! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- True, but, there are reasons why people don't like
- things. Even if they don't know what they are
- themselves. However, as we aren't talking about
- isolated individual words, or colors or something
- like that, this is something that can actually be
- discovered, because it's not "wiring". It's learned
- behavior.

Yep. I don't think it's going away soon though.


- Only to the extent that I referenced above. You
- equate "those words" with constant use of "um" and
- "like" in speech. Censors do not. This implies that
- there is something more than just "poor language
- skills" at the heart of this matter.

Censorship often fails that way. Censors don't have anything to do with language skills.


- But you do have an opinion that their use is bad.
- Enough so to defend the position of the thread
- starter. Right?

Bad? Inappropriate is more like it. And there is someone to be judged here, the developer is "speaking" to a very broad audience in a way.

- You're parents never told you about "bad words"? I
- find that hard to beleive.

They told me to treat others as I'd like to be treated. They told me that some language and acts offend some people, and to think about that.

- Who are you to say that those feelings they are used
- to express are not valid? Rage and violence is part
- of what humans are.

- Repressing emotion is a bad thing. Again, it's
- trying to deny what we really are, and will just
- cause other problems down the road. And, is all part
- of why our society is so screwed up, but that's
- another debate.

Hmm, definately another debate.


- I disagree with this. It sounds like you just have a
- negative opinion of them and force everything to fit
- it. Those words have their place just as well as any
- other. And it is necessary to convey ire. Both for
- external and internal reasons. Those words often
- help for both, but particularly the internal
- reasons. Trying to choose other vocabulary is much
- more like internalizing and that adds to the
- potential explosive force.

Hmm, could be, but there are definately better ways to discuss a flywheel. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I've spent alot of my life around alot of people. I have friends and family that are everything from homeless (living in a metal palette crate) to secretaries, neurosurgeons and a governor of a US state. Most everyone drops four letter words, money and education not withstanding. You talk like you're saying that we need these words to free us up during an arguement or something. It happens in those cases, but I don't often have need to argue with the people I know. What I'm talking about is the 99% of talks I have about life, politics, money, love... whatever. Most of the time, these words never come up. And it's not out of programming either, I'm not sitting there just thinking of how I wish I could say a four letter word but can't. Anyway, it would just be another adjective along with the others.


- Also, referencing "effective communication" again.
- The more quickly emotions or thoughts or concepts
- are conveyed, the more effective the communication.
- This is largely based on ones "audience" as well.
- Being Shakespear won't help if you are dealing with
- a bunch of "thugs" (in the MTV sense)

Stereo-type? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Which is what I said above. You claimed their use is
- not valid as a means of expression, but their
- "strength" is exactly what makes them valid.

Hmm. I know guys that'll tell you to "F off" no matter what, no matter if they're kidding or mad, they say it. It's like a default response. Another guy I know calls me a "freakin idiot" no matter what I do, if I beat him in a PS2 game, or win an award for my photography. Freakin idiot. He says it like its either a prize he's giving me, or an insult, just the same not depending on the situation. Where's the strength after a while? That was my whole point before. Not that someone who uses a "bad word" is "bad", but that the salt looses it's flavor when you eat it every meal.

- As for the rest, "stealing depth of expression" and
- what not. Hardly any care about that. More often
- than not you will just talk over peoples heads, or
- come off as a stuck up snot, and that, to a kid,
- will be more harmful than anything as it will create
- an outcast.

See above about salt.

- Advocating inconsistency and lack of logic is as bad

- as those, if not worse. And that's what he, and his
- allies are doing.

Well, from what he wrote, he said that those words aren't welcome around his boys. He's making a change in his own hobbies to reinforce that. I respect that. Whether or not it's pshycologically sound is not for me to decide.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BTW, I read your P-47 article a while back, good stuff. I'm not playing online until the 1.2RC or F is out, but maybe after that I'll see you again on Ivan's server and I can try those tactics out.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 12:58 AM
BaldieJr wrote:
- Its time to let this thread die. Hypocricy listens
- only to itself.
-


Its Soooooo hard though. This topic is full of such dichotomy and hypocrisy and stupidity that you just gotta chime in you know? That's the bible bunch for you though. Kill in the name of god and country, but fer gods sake, don't swear or mention sex!

"Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

To each their own... We all have free will to play or not to play, if you have some modicum of skill, you can edit it to your liking to remove the swearing and add more blood!


<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/ ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/</a>

<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 01:07 AM
UCLANUPE wrote::
-- The general swearing does not really bother me. However,
-- the use of GD is the only one that really seems out of
-- place and offensive.

Agreed. I didn't know it existed in FB cos I never use FB sound and I turn off the speech text. Reason is cos the first time I came to this board researching should I buy this thing the one consistent whine was the total disaster of FB sound in the air combat environment.

I often wonder why people ask Oleg for sound tracks they can listen to when they sim, as if thats real. I usually jam the stereo. In fact, one late night I was listening to Coast To Coast Genocide with George Noorey and he was interviewing that kid rocket whiz (something about movie October Sky or something) and the dude talked for half hour about how when he was age 13 he borrowed mid~west USA farmers' fields to test his liquid propellent rockets and all the trouble that brewed. During this part of the interview I was just joyridinng FB at less than 50m altitude over Online Summer 2 map at low level just above Oleg's maps of crop patches. It was like I was flying over the farms the dude was talking about on the radio.

So there, listen to AM talk radio when you play over the FB.

btw, I do agree with the original poster/posterette of this thread, but the FB air warfare sound environment is so often described as so *stupid* just turn off the sound you get more realism. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 01:30 AM
Ban FB, ban the games, ban internet, ban tv, ban alchol...

True violence & self censorship in the name of 'protection for my kid'. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


-------------------------------------------------------------
<font size = 1>
=815=Squadron in South Korea
http://cafe.daum.net/il2sturmovik
</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 01:32 AM
The language is wrong for the Brits ... or at least the dialect and accents.

It's 40 to 60 years too modern - and lacks the 'class' overtones that were noticable in British usage up to the 1960's (even into the '70's).


There is a mid-atlantic tone to some of these - some of the early actors I don't recognise as British at all. (Canadian maybe?)

Where is the 'received pronounciation'? Think about the accents used by the officers in British war movies (say Ice Cold in Alex, or even The Battle of Britain).

Oh, and what about the 'jolly old Empire' - where are the Aussies and New Zealanders?

<div align="center">

http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2/signature/paint_sig_003.jpg

I've given up correcting my own spelling
Unless I've corrected it here <MAP NAME="paint_sig_003"><AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="0,159,199,199" HREF="http://www.il2airracing.com" TARGET="_blank" alt="Air Racing" title="Air Racing"><AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="0,0,199,159" HREF="http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/" title="Painter's home page" alt="Painter's home page"><AREA SHAPE="rect" COORDS="199,0,399,199" HREF="http://www.robert-stuart.me.uk/il2/index.html" TARGET="_blank" alt="Painter's IL2 Pages" title="Painter's IL2 Pages">
</MAP></div>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 01:32 AM
This guy at Bay Hill (Arnie's home) golf course who was like a pro, he had headphones on at the driving range. I asked him what instuctional tape he was listening too. He said Metallica.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:07 AM
RBJ`s got it in one. Time to close this silly thread. (Though I do agree with mikeyg007 sensible statement).Some people really do want to mix and match reality. One thing they can`t do is edit reality itself!

But it`s time it was finished.

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).


Message Edited on 11/08/0301:09AM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:28 AM
i think its funny how people want to remove profanity, u hear it every day of yr lifes and often use it alot ur self its f that f this when things arnt going yr way.

Cant see y people would be offended by god dammit f sake etc, hell even an add on the telly that used the word bugger was attacked, theres no point in shielding people from it because you cant.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:32 AM
Good while it lasted. Pretty polarised opinions here. I suspect neither side has changed. Hope the original poster has edited his sound by now but NOT added in "look daddy! a bunny!" as was suggested /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Still concerned about the pre-teens playing this or any other war game and the shocking double standards some of y'all hold /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:33 AM
Very interesting thread.

Simple solution.
As in the config file for High Gore=0/1....Profanity=0/1.

Several games have options like this, i.e. Carmageddom 2 you could disable animals being killed and blood spurting from people (you ran over), Soldier of Fortune you could turn down/off the gore...etc.

These types of options should be available in the 'Options' screen. Then everyone could play in the manner they were most comfortable with.

<center>Beebop-ProudBirds-VFW<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Beebop%20Sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:40 AM
When I was in the Gulf war we would write things on the bombs in chalk, I'll leave what to the imagination, but some idiot visiting (I forget who) decided it was effensive, so the practise was banned. This has been going on since bombs were first dropped from an a/c..
It only takes one prude to spoil the fun of thousands. You know the saying, you can't please all the people all the time, but it seems like that is what we're trying to do.
And how is asking God to damned something offensive?

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/261003-NewSig_06.gif

"Any information that we receive concerning the real world is carefully controlled"

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 03:14 AM
Speaking of accents, I can listen to the Russian or German voice samples for hours on end and not get bugged by the repetition. I especially like the voice when the IL2 gunner gets upset. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But the American voices get repetitive very quick. I guess since I can tell that they are actors and understand what they are saying. Strange.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:37 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- Speaking of accents, I can listen to the Russian or
- German voice samples for hours on end and not get
- bugged by the repetition. I especially like the
- voice when the IL2 gunner gets upset. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- But the American voices get repetitive very quick. I
- guess since I can tell that they are actors and
- understand what they are saying. Strange.

The soviet voices sound like garbled mubling to me. I can't even discern words. But with the Finnish, Hungarian, and German I can (and I only know a bit of German).

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:50 AM
i think the perfect end of this thread would be steve v's pic of a bunny rabbit with a pancake on its head

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_sniper2.gif
U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 03:52 AM
So.......how do you edit the files?



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Seriously. I tried. They won't play back for me once I add sound to them and save them in place. I get a burst of noise and nothing else. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 03:55 AM
I have no training in Russian or German reading or writing, but after IL2, I can understand my wingmen with no troubles most of the time. It's easier with the Germans though. The Russian voices are garbled a bit, and I have to listen for patterns mostly.

The MS2004 voice system is spectacular though. I have disabled all visual aids, and just listen in. Rarely does it seem repetitive with traffic turned up a bit (for variety in pattern instructions). I hope that the BoB sim has a similar quality setup.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 03:58 AM
I tried to edit my music sounds a while back, and only got loud noise on playback. I later found that I'd resaved them in a format that wasn't the same as what they were before. See if that's the trouble. (bitrate, samplerate, something like that.)

Sorry for that, I can't remember what the settings were, I just downloaded and used someone else's music tracks! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

Message Edited on 11/08/0302:59AM by adlabs6

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:07 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- So.......how do you edit the files

I posted this on page 2, but it got burried quickly:

mmanager....Use windows built-in sound recorder to open the offending files and edit out what you don't like or record your own message. Just remember to save it in the same format that it is recorded in, Mpeg layer 3, 20 Kbits; 11,025Hz mono; 2kb/s. or it won't work at all.

They are located here:

\UbiSoft\ForgottenBattles\samples\Speech\US

The wav. file names will tell you which ones contain profanity..ie. "damn.wav".

It's a bit of work, but do-able.





<CENTER>http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/FB_JG27.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:32 AM
Chad, thanks, but that isn't what I meant.

The file properties are 20Kbit MP3, 11Khz, mono, wave files. I have managed to save in that format with Soundforge.

It still does not work. In windows, the file I created sounded almost like the originals, but doesn't work in game.

Also, I posted that I found and modified one of them, but you skipped that when quoting me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:07 AM
adlabs6 wrote:

- But the American voices get repetitive very quick. I
- guess since I can tell that they are actors and
- understand what they are saying. Strange.

I speak a bit of German, so the German voices have the same effect on me. It gets boring quickly. You can tell it is just acting, and not very good acting at that.

I am thinking about trying IL2 without sound...

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:19 AM
You can turn voices off in Il-2 setup. You can even remove subtitles in the conf.ini file if you so desire.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 07:41 AM
Bf109Gustav wrote:
- I speak a bit of German, so the German voices have
- the same effect on me. It gets boring quickly. You
- can tell it is just acting, and not very good acting
- at that.
-
- I am thinking about trying IL2 without sound...

Thanks for that info, I had often wondered if a German or Russian speaker felt that way about those voices.

Also, I don't have SoundForge. I did my editing in a program that came with my Creative Sound Card called Wave Studio (I think). It's not installed right now, so I can't test it out. But I seem to recall that when I saved with the same format as the original file, it would play. Otherwise, no sound came, or the sounds were spiked white noise.

Still, I have just tested, and when I remaned the files that had reliegous profanities (which I disliked) they were not played, and no error resulted, but it was logged as an error in the console. So this is an option if editing is not.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:45 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- Also, I don't have SoundForge. I did my editing in a
- program that came with my Creative Sound Card called
- Wave Studio (I think). It's not installed right now,
- so I can't test it out. But I seem to recall that
- when I saved with the same format as the original
- file, it would play. Otherwise, no sound came, or
- the sounds were spiked white noise.

Tried it in Goldwave, Sound Recorder and Soundforge. No go anywhere no matter what I did. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


- Still, I have just tested, and when I remaned the
- files that had reliegous profanities (which I
- disliked) they were not played, and no error
- resulted, but it was logged as an error in the
- console. So this is an option if editing is not.

Heh, doesn't help for making new sound packs though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 10:23 AM
I find this thread extremelly entertaining from a purely sociological point of view.

But my only concern is that just because some people is complaining about this Ubi might decide to remove all sort of swearing from BoB in the future.

Please do not!

I'm sure that there's lots of FB fans out there that find swearing the mildest of things in a game that involves killing people. It's just part of war, and war is not for children.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/haddock/sig/J8_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 01:38 PM
Capt_Haddock wrote:
- I find this thread extremelly entertaining from a
- purely sociological point of view.
-
- But my only concern is that just because some people
- is complaining about this Ubi might decide to remove
- all sort of swearing from BoB in the future.
-
- Please do not!
-

I fully agree with Capt_Haddock . I don`t like swearing, but I`ve worked in a few places in the past with it. It`s real. I want to hear what I would hear in war. I don`t buy war simulations to be coddled. IT MUST NOT BE REMOVED. Stay with the realism.

I`d be insulted if the swearing was removed due to a few complaints. Remember, content people don`t complain or do little, so it`s easy to get a biased impression of what people think.

Personally, from this thread I`m quite pleased with the general logical reasoning of most people here.

Ok, I won`t write here again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:38 PM
Then let me warn those who have kids, do NOT use my upcoming RAF Voice pack since it DOES have swearing language from the commonwealth of early 1940.

If you don't like then do not use and if you do then turn it on and play it loud!



http://fluxout.homestead.com/files/Thx-32x.jpg


"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you"

Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 02:55 PM
I dont have kids, but I do have a problem with the GD parts. Maybe its just socialization, but I really dont like hearing it. I just found all the files that had GD in them and deleted them. The radio chatter has never really worked well since, but it was an acceptable tradeoff IMO. To each his own, but there should be an option me thinks for disabling swear words.

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:24 PM
NTESLA wrote:
- Then let me warn those who have kids, do NOT use my
- upcoming RAF Voice pack since it DOES have swearing
- language from the commonwealth of early 1940.
-


Glad to hear it. I think it was the last British governor of India who remarked that once the Empire was no more and it had all passed into history, the only two things that the British would be remembered for giving to the world would be the game of association football and the phrase "F**k Off."

Beautiful.

And as for swearing in the Ubi files, it's already been said, but, the game has a teen rating. You shouldn't be playing it in front of your kids.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:34 PM
I guess you should expect indignant postings from the profanity using children!

<center>
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2cb22/KosSig.gif

Is the Bf-110C-4/B ready yet?<center>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 04:53 PM
yep profanity is bad I guess

after all, hearing cursing while you blow the wing of a plane or watch a pilot die in a ball of fire, the profanity is far more unsettling /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:15 PM
Matthew 15:1:1 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

I don't understand why everyone is giving this person a hard time. If he doesn't want himself or his kids to hear cussing, then why give him a hard time. In fact, I think it's a sign of integrity. Yes, I would probably say a few cuss words if I had a guy in the sky trying to blow me up and extinguish my existence from the face of the earth. But, everyone keeps ranting about how much of a game this is and everyone takes it too seriously. Do we really want the realities of this not being a game also. Actually killing people. Watching people die an agonizing death in a fireball. I understand that everyone has an opinion about something, but this is ridiculous. Did you know that the networks can now say the F word! In my estimation we our losing and in many instances have lost our integrity as a culture. Sure, let the kids hear the cuss words. Let the kids see the pornography. Let the kids see the murder and blood. Let them grow up in a world in which their stability is faultered! I once heard that cussing was a filling in for an empty mind that didn't know any better way to convey what they have to say next. It is the vocabulary of little boys!
War is another circumstance altogether and I understand the extreme situations where this would happen. But, this is a game-right?

Atticus

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:54 PM
voxdei2 wrote:
- Matthew 15:1:1 "Not that which goeth into the mouth
- defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the
- mouth, this defileth a man."


So no problems with gay oral sex according to the bible then (provided they swallow).

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 05:57 PM
voxdei2 wrote:
- Matthew 15:1:1 "Not that which goeth into the mouth
- defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the
- mouth, this defileth a man."
-
- I don't understand why everyone is giving this
- person a hard time. If he doesn't want himself or
- his kids to hear cussing, then why give him a hard
- time. In fact, I think it's a sign of integrity.
- Yes, I would probably say a few cuss words if I had
- a guy in the sky trying to blow me up and extinguish
- my existence from the face of the earth. But,
- everyone keeps ranting about how much of a game this
- is and everyone takes it too seriously. Do we really
- want the realities of this not being a game also.
- Actually killing people. Watching people die an
- agonizing death in a fireball. I understand that
- everyone has an opinion about something, but this is
- ridiculous. Did you know that the networks can now
- say the F word! In my estimation we our losing and
- in many instances have lost our integrity as a
- culture. Sure, let the kids hear the cuss words. Let
- the kids see the pornography. Let the kids see the
- murder and blood. Let them grow up in a world in
- which their stability is faultered! I once heard
- that cussing was a filling in for an empty mind that
- didn't know any better way to convey what they have
- to say next. It is the vocabulary of little boys!
- War is another circumstance altogether and I
- understand the extreme situations where this would
- happen. But, this is a game-right?
-
- Atticus

If you "don't understand", then you didn't bother to read the entire thread. Or perhaps you are so well trained that you simply can't see anything else.


Sad. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 06:21 PM
Hmmm. I didn`t want to say any more, but...

NTESLA wroteL:


"Then let me warn those who have kids, do NOT use my upcoming RAF Voice pack since it DOES have swearing language from the commonwealth of early 1940.

If you don't like then do not use and if you do then turn it on and play it loud!"


NTESLA, I have a child. But don`t worry, I can responsibly control what my child hears and says in my own home. And she`s well advised about how to be in the world outside, when she comes across random swearing from others.

So bring out that Brit pack with all the bits too it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 06:36 PM
No, I'm not well trained. Just concerened about the way things are going for our kids. This is a bit of a sidenote though, since most kids won't be playing this game anyway. Hopefully. Didn't mean to offend. I just try to live my life the way Christ wants me to live it. If that entails not cussing, then so be it! Is this to say that I never make a mistake-NO. But, I do try to do what is right. I fail miserably at it at times and thank goodness for grace!!!
It's a bit hypocritical to be having this discussion when the game itself involves the (gamelike) killing of human beings anyway. But, I believe it boils down to the purpose. The cause. When the time came, I would hope that most would fight to stop a maniac from conquering the world and putting millions of innocent people to death. But it is just a game. It doesn't represent anything. The planes don't represent anything. The history behind the game doesn't mean anything. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'm just glad the Mustang is here. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Also, I should have read the thread a bit better. I was just taking up for the person after I read the first few threads. Hey there is nothing wrong with saying G## D%#@! Just keep on saying it and see how your life blossoms. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Also, leadbaloon- I hope you have a good day /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif !!!!

Dominas Vobiscum,

Atticus.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:13 PM
The RAF voice pack will come out soon but what made me post this warning is that in today's society worldwide seems to be a tendency to always try to find something to blame for their failure to educate and protect their offspring from things like these. All of us are intitled to their opinion but please do not blame a game, a tv show, a movie, music lyrics...etc. if you wish to find someone to blame then look at oneself and check out what is wrong, where we let go of our most precious, our children...that is what we strive for, all of those who died in battle for the purpose to give us and their offspring the freedom that we today enjoy.

http://fluxout.homestead.com/files/Thx-32x.jpg


"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you"

Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:26 PM
Blitzpig_DDT asked me on how to edit the sound files so to help those of you who also wish to do the same follow these instructions that were provided by one of our RAF voice actors that I am currently working on :

""OK, here's what I did: (Windows XP, but Win98 etc should be close to this, too)

Open the Sound Recorder which can be found in: Start/Program Files/Accessories/Entertainment

In the Sound Recorder Program select "File", "Properties"

Where it says "Format Conversion" hit the "Convert Now" button

In the "Format" dropdown box select "MPEG Layer-3"

In the "Attributes" dropdown box select "20kBit/s, 11,025 Hz, Mono 2kb/sec"

It'd be a good idea to give this setting a name. Up in the "Name" section hit the "Save As" button and give your format a name. I called mine "Voice Pack".

Once you're back to the main program you can set your recording levels (Edit, Audio Properties) and hit the "Volume" button in the "Sound Recording" section. It'd be a good idea to leave this window open so you can adjust the recording level up or down depending on how loud each sound file needs to be. I found I had to lower the recording level for the "more excited" ones, so the sound level didn't cause too much clipping.

Hit the "Record" button and speak your line. You can play it back straight away to make sure it sounds OK.
Now select "File", "Save As" and enter the name of the sound file. I found it was easiest to just copy and paste the file name straight from the Voice Actor Word Document.

This is important: You need to hit the "Change" button and select the "Voice Pack" sound format you saved before. Once you've done that, hit the regular "Save" button, and your file is done.

Play your saved file back to make sure it doesn't clip too much (distorted sound) now that it's low-quality. If it has distorted, record it again, but this time reduce the microphone level a little, or try to keep the pitch of your voice a little lower.

Important: Select "File", "New" to create a new file. If you try to record your next clip without changing to a new file you will get an error message, as your sound card may not be able to handle the low quality "Voice Pack" recording level."

Thank you Sean for these great instructions!


Enjoy!

http://fluxout.homestead.com/files/Thx-32x.jpg


"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you"

Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:28 PM
voxdei2 wrote:
- I once heard
- that cussing was a filling in for an empty mind that
- didn't know any better way to convey what they have
- to say next.

I don't buy this theory. I don't swear much. My girlfriend, however, who is an Oxford Classics graduate and teaches Philosophy, swears like a trooper. Of the PhDs I know, some swear, some don't. It's a matter of idiolect, not education level.

I think this conception may arise because swearing is associated with the working class, who are associated with less educational progression. But swearing = stupid is a very simplistic conclusion I think.

Objecting to blasphemous profanity I can understand much more, though I don't happen to share the objection.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:39 PM
Mmanager's point should be considered very seriously.

I was enlisted in 1973 a long way from home making weather briefings for B-52's and can say that most of the boys (I was one) I knew were vulgar. True, not all but most. I still curse a blue streak or two. I think it is a good release of bad energy.

As far as kids, well my choice was to teach my boys what the words meant and that there are times that they are not appropriate and in bad taste, e.g., church, dinner with Mom, school, and such. It never occurred to me that I could "protect" them from swearing. If those were the only words that hurt we could make weapons from them and just shout across the trenches. Trying to stop most boys from swearing is like trying to stop them from farting. Though, some just don't seem to have that gene.

It seems prudent that in the US the gaming industry will need to self-police before Uncle Sugar steps in and mandates some Draconian measures. Yes, he can. Other games have parental control options (Americas Army), and they seem to work just fine. I can still swear to my buddies with Team Speak or Roger Wilco. But I honestly wonder for how long /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif After all, a child could be listening...

http://sjlundin.home.mchsi.com/vargasAvatar.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 07:39 PM
man first the jap post now this
the minority wants there way once again

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 08:14 PM
Diab182 wrote:
- man first the jap post now this

It's only because the 1.2 patch hasn't been released yet. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 08:32 PM
since were off topic in another post once again lemme tell you this when my kid started swearin I just did a little experiment and started swearin with him F this F that.. you know what ..the kid realized it was just a word and nothin special and hasnt said it since ( i lie he told the tv to f off the other day) once again we go back to word play ITS ONLY WORDS OH MY GOD IM MELTING I HEARD SOMEONE USE THE ACRONYM FOR (FOR UNLAWFULL CARNAL KNOWLEDGE) OH MY GOOD LORD!

and all you goodie goodie christians out there id think good ole J.C would have more of a problem with us replicating war and killing each other and geting kicks out of it than us saying sh*t b*tch f*ck or Cl*t

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 08:50 PM
Bf109Gustav wrote:
- adlabs6 wrote:
-
-- But the American voices get repetitive very quick. I
-- guess since I can tell that they are actors and
-- understand what they are saying. Strange.
-
- I speak a bit of German, so the German voices have
- the same effect on me. It gets boring quickly. You
- can tell it is just acting, and not very good acting
- at that.
-
- I am thinking about trying IL2 without sound...


Thats what I do! The voices are cheezy and repetitive...

BTW I got my FW project going... Its in the garage...
http://public.fotki.com/Spinnetti/misc_stuff-1/

<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 09:43 PM
I'm going to stop responding to this thread, because it's pointless and going no where.
The remark about goodie goodie Christian. I don't buy into this. I'm a Christian and if anything it has shown me how really bad I am. It is by the grace of God that anything comes out of me. I'm not trying to argue, but I believe most Christians who are truly trying to follow what they believe are just trying to do what is right. It's better than running around and blowing people away. Or would you rather have a world devoid of love that is full of hate. Well, it's possible- just don't believe and your wish will be fulfilled. The funny thing is that I can understand. Before I became a Christian, I said the same things. It's almost as if I hated the fact that they were so happy. If I only knew then what I know now. This thread isn't about religion and the fact that I'm Christian isn't anyones business. It's between me and God. It's just funny to me how everyone always says that Christians are the narrow minded ones who are always judging. It's quite contrary going by the narrow mindedness that has been flung at me and my belief system. In a thread earlier we were discussing slave labor for the Bf-109. Well, Christians are dying all around the world right now. Nigeria, China and Sub-Saharan Africa are just a few examples of places where people are still dying for what they believe. Maybe it's because they are so Goody Goody. Goody Goody has always been equivocal to a violent death and persecution in my book. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a cusser, Muslim, Jewish -whatever-it's your business. I just am not condeming it. In respect to the cussing- if you want it listen to it. If you don't want it- don't listen to it. I just believe we should have the option to turn the television, radio and other things on and have a choice. Have a good one.

Atticus.

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 09:53 PM
I don't believe you should judge him like that rayban jockey. Profanity can ruin a game. What could be so wrong with an option to disable profanity? That sounds like a wonderful idea.
Great Thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 09:57 PM
voxdei2 wrote:
- In respect to the cussing- if you want it listen to it.
- If you don't want it- don't listen to it. I just
- believe we should have the option to turn the
- television, radio and other things on and have a
- choice. Have a good one.
-
- Atticus.
-

That's what we -the shiny bad guys- are saying and you got that option already.



-------------------------------------------------------------
<font size = 1>
=815=Squadron in South Korea
http://cafe.daum.net/il2sturmovik
</font>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 10:12 PM
Diab 182,
I just noticed your point about JC and the simulation of war. That is a great point about JC getting upset about replicating war! I struggle with this often. I do believe that some war is inevitable. And, I also look at the causes of this particular war. I guess it comes down to good vs. bad. To some this may be too polar, but in the case of WW2, I cannot describe the atrocities of the Jewish camps as anything but bad!!!. Moral relativism aside. I would fight for this to stop. And, I guess I do in a simulated fashion. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Another way I think about it is if a man broke into my house and was going to kill my kids. Would I read bible verses to him. Probably not!! I believe I would have to dispatch him in a way in which my family was preserved. I wouldn't want to do this, but he was the one who brought hate into my home. This is how I see WW2. Our security, safety and well being were violated. It was a time to stand up and protect our interests and the interests of people who couldn't protect themselves. Do I like war? NO. Do I think it's inevitable? Yes. Especially as long as people violate the interests and the well-being of the free world. I think often of the destruction that was brought upon societies that became evil beyond proportions in the old testament. Sodom for example. What kind of a person who is a loving person stand by and watch a friend, needy person or weaker person fall prey to the violations of a despot. Not me!!!
I do bring this into context in every game I play. Is the cause worthy enough to fight for. (it is a game though) It makes me think about the thread I started earlier about the Bf-109 and slave labor) I love that plane. I just can't bring myself to fly it anymore because of what it was used for in WW2. It is a marvel of engineering. It flies well. It is a beautiful bird. But it was built with the sweat and blood of Jewish slaves of war and I cannot sit in that cockpit. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It shot my comrades down. Hey, It's just a game though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Have a good one and didn't mean to offend if I did. I'm sure I did, because it's impossible to say anthing without offending someone.

Atticus

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 10:31 PM
- voxdei2 wrote:
- In respect to the cussing- if you want it listen to it.
- If you don't want it- don't listen to it. I just
- believe we should have the option to turn the
- television, radio and other things on and have a
- choice. Have a good one.
-
- Atticus.

You do. Play a different game. Don't force us to suffer because you are afraid of words.

I just can't beleive how hard it is to get through to some people. You just want to grab them and shake the $h*T out of them hoping to maybe wake them up. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Look, the point that you are missing (probably because you choose to), is that this isn't about a "choice" or any other non-sense. It's about the fact that *ANY* word is just a WORD(!). Nothing more. To have such disdain for it, is either a fear of it, or elitism (you know, because it's "vulgar" - the common, poor, peasants are uneducated and use those words so we, being so much better and more sophisticated in language shouldn't do the same).

Both are learned behavior. As that one father mentioned above, once you get a person (even a kid) to realize that it's not anything special, they don't care. The mere fact that we, as a society, have this concept of "bad words" shows that we are continuing to drill it into the heads of children, generation after generation. I know that you hate to hear "programming" or "traning" in reference to this, but, it's an accurate description, even if it runs counter to your perception of yourself. It's not intended to insult.

You are right in one thing however, it does seem pointless to respond to this thread. Those of us who know they are only words and don't matter won't be convinced by you high and mighty types (or oddballs like Adlabs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif lol ) repeating non-argument after non-argument. And, as we've seen, logic doesn't have any effect on you, so it's an unfortunate stalemate it seems.



Now then......about editing those damn wav files..... I can't get my Windows XP Pro Sound Recorder to save in the format mentioned. At mono 11Khz, I can only select 16Kbps for a bit rate for MPEG Layer 3. This results in a spike of noise when the game engine attempts to play it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 10:50 PM
voxdei2 wrote:
- I'm going to stop responding to this thread, because
- it's pointless and going no where.
- The remark about goodie goodie Christian. I don't
- buy into this. I'm a Christian and if anything it
- has shown me how really bad I am. It is by the grace
- of God that anything comes out of me. I'm not trying
- to argue, but I believe most Christians who are
- truly trying to follow what they believe are just
- trying to do what is right. It's better than running
- around and blowing people away. Or would you rather
- have a world devoid of love that is full of hate.
- Well, it's possible- just don't believe and your
- wish will be fulfilled.
Sorry you do sound like a thoughtful person and I fully respect your right to believe in whatever you want to. You cross the line at this point though. And you cross it because you have just demonstrated that you lack respect for other people's beliefs above. It seems I as an atheist am dragging the world toward hate in your view. But the world is NOT held together by your belief system. This self proclaimed ownership of 'goodness' by some religious people is fairly exclusive no? Not a lot of love spread around there /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



- The funny thing is that I
- can understand. Before I became a Christian, I said
- the same things. It's almost as if I hated the fact
- that they were so happy. If I only knew then what I
- know now.
A laughable comment. Do you have any extra perspective over the rest of us because you have bought into one particular belief system? I think the patronising tone of the above towards those that, of their own free will choose to live their life differently to you, shows a narrowness of view that means you possibly have less than the rest of us.



- This thread isn't about religion and the
- fact that I'm Christian isn't anyone's business.
You bought it up.

- It's
- between me and God. It's just funny to me how
- everyone always says that Christians are the narrow
- minded ones who are always judging. It's quite
- contrary going by the narrow mindedness that has
- been flung at me and my belief system.
You've done your fair share right above.


Listen I am really into science. For me Darwin is able to explain pretty much all I need about how and why humans act certain ways. Honestly I just think the Bible was a fantastic way to control society during a time when very few people were educated, nothing more. And boy the ten commandments pretty much hit the nail on the head! I probably live by most of those rules but only because generally being 'good' is not the sole preserve of religious people but the practise of civilised people. Quoting bits from the Bible as you did above will convince no-one of your arguments but yourself.


Hey you have your view and I have mine voxdei2. The two will probably never meet in some respects but are probably closer than either of us would think in others. A stalemate indeed then /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 11:02 PM
Blitzpig,
"A word is just a word". This is where we differ. G$% D$#@ is not just a word. It is saying the lord's name in vain. You don't have to agree with this. The thing that matters is that I do. Also, I'm not trying to shake anyone. Believe what you want to believe. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's your life. Let me live mine! I just was saying that the original poster should have a right to not want to hear these things. Have a good one! and thanks for your input.


Atticus

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~nagle/p51dalone.jpg


Atticus

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 11:10 PM
Brock,
Man, I'm not condeming you or anyone. I am not expressing myself clearly. If anything, I was saying that I was the one who felt condemned. I have no intention of ever condeming anyone. Everyone has to follow their own path and my path is just one of many that we can choose. It's not my place to judge anyone elses path. And I'm not. All I was saying is that, I do get attacked alot because of my faith! and I felt like I needed to defend it. Am I perfect-no. If anything, I realize how un-perfect I am. Am I goody goody. I try not to be. I try to love everyone. Sorry if I offended! I just want the best for you guys and have a good one. Happy flying.



http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~nagle/p51dalone.jpg


Atticus

adlabs6
11-08-2003, 11:12 PM
This thread was almost as good as a padlock thread. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Thanks for not grouping me with the high and mighty types DDT. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It seems we are all programmed, either by self or by society, to be what we are. Most have too much personal constitution to be swayed by words, usually only life itself can wield powers enough to change a man.

See you in the sky guys!

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/images/skins/historical/OldCrowsig.jpg (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 11:28 PM
voxdei2::
-- But it was built with the sweat and blood of Jewish
-- slaves of war and I cannot sit in that cockpit.

I don't think the early 109 Emails were made by slaves. In 1948 Isreali pilots sat in that cockpit...You can try this skin...

lifted from ---> http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=4519

http://www.il2skins.com/skins/screenshots/4519.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 11:35 PM
Thanks Alot!!! LEXX_Luthor. I will check this skin out!



http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~nagle/p51dalone.jpg


Atticus

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 11:45 PM
If this goes on i'm never gonne help someone again..

profanity - my A$$ !

I'll be waiting at the gate...

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/sinlabbit.jpg
and NO ONE comes in anymore !

lil_labbit <font color="#00FFFF">
Korg beta tester </font>
<center> http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-08-2003, 11:52 PM
Man,
That rabbit has some big-feet!!

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~nagle/p51dalone.jpg


Atticus

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 04:06 AM
voxdei2 wrote:
- G$% D$#@ is not just a word. It is saying the lord's
- name in vain.

errm, sorry to split hairs - God is not His name; it's His job title! His actual name is not really known - due to the "laws of blasphemy" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyway, if thine ear offend thee...

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 05:09 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)))))))

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~nagle/p51dalone.jpg


Atticus

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 05:53 AM
otto_pilot wrote:
- voxdei2 wrote:
-- G$% D$#@ is not just a word. It is saying the lord's
-- name in vain.
-
- errm, sorry to split hairs - God is not His name;
- it's His job title! His actual name is not really
- known - due to the ...
- Anyway, if thine ear offend thee...
-
-

BULL! i'm gonna get the unknown one too
http://members.home.nl./lil.labbit/sinlabbit.jpg
once he's out the gate he aint coming in no more too!
dont you get it ???
<div style="width:1024;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=8)"> <h2> NO ONE COMES IN !!</h2> <marquee><h3></h3></marquee>
</div>

<div style="width:1024;color:F0FEEE;fontsize:9pt;filter: glow[color=blue,strength=9)"> <h3>and i'm gonna call him by his name too</h3> <marquee></h3></marquee>
</div>
(apocalypse) readyur bible
lil_labbit <font color="#00FFFF">
Korg beta tester </font>
<center> http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day</center>

Message Edited on 11/09/0306:07AM by lil_labbit

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 06:50 AM
you know how i can disprove all your quotes about whats right and right, right here in this silly quote

"last time I asked Jesus if f*ck was ok to say he said sure just dont say Mutha F*cker or Dip S*it, I dont like those."


exactly I prove my point WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU TALKED TO JC AND ASKED HIM WHAT WAS OK OR NOT
for all I know and perty certain is that JC would be perty bent today at the way people have warped religion. Ya know why the Gospels Of Thomas were realy banned, because it denouced organized religion when the Pope caught wind of that BING! Heresy! I like everyone should follow there own way, if its jew, muslim, janist, or catholic, its what you do that counts. Remeinds me of a south park episode when they were waitin in line to get into hell and the guy was like WAIT I WAS A GOOD PROTESTANT! and the guy at the gate said nope sorry wrong answer correct answer woulda been Mormon thats right Mormon next please....this whole thread is ******ed. And has nothin to do with Il-2 anymore..Lock Please.

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 06:58 AM
now....
Jesus is the ONLY ONE HERE.....
if he escapes....
http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/sinlabbit.jpg
HE's NOT COMING IN AGAIN!

lil_labbit
<center> http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 10:41 AM
Diab182 the thread isn't ******ed but is actually quite interesting- its good to hear others views no?
Agreed they have wandered a little from the original IL-2 related start /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Appreciate the moderators leaving the generally only lightly toasted discussion going though!

I have woken up this morning and feel we all need a BIG group hug or something, c'mon, gather 'round ppl.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





<HR>
<center>http://www.misterwright.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/brockyaksig.jpg
<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#CCCCCC">Me on my hols in Russia</FONT></center>

XyZspineZyX
11-09-2003, 10:46 AM
PRAISE THE LORD! (hugs himself) !

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:51 AM
When I first booted up Il2 and played a single mission for starters I was amused when I was verbally accosted for not staying on the leaders course or by my tail gunner for pulling an erratic maneuver. I thought, ok, these Russians are a bit course, but also, honest about their approach to the game.

All three of my daughters, ages 10 to 15 have seen this game and also exhibited a little chuckle for the same events. None of them use profanity in any of their daily conversations. They are all beautiful well behaved children and know that life is not all sugar and spice and everything is nice. My youngest, loves to shoot down aircraft in flight sims and IL2FB is her favorite game as well. We really get into the action and she finds it very exciting. Her callsign is "Major Baby Cakes".

All three of my daughters regularly watch war movies with their grandfather as this is his favorite thing to do while sipping his martini in the evening. None of my daughters have suffered any behavioral modifications as a result of this either. Some of the dialogue in the movies is a bit course as well.

All three of my daughters have witnessed their father "lose it" while exploding his thumb as he attempts to drive a nail with his hammer and misses. The result of this is immediate attempts at first aid etc. by three very caring loving children.

During my upbringing my experiences with adults and media were very similar to this as well. As an adult I am not perfect and catch myself using profanity on occasion. Sometimes this must result in an apology to others for my behavior. But we try to mind our manners I should hope.

As a child I befriended a family that were picture perfect in every way. A couple of their children were my regular playmates. There was no abuse in this family during the time that I knew them. The children frowned on the use of profanity. The parents tried hard to raise their children to become well adjusted, well behaved adults. As we got into our teens things went wrong for a few of their children. The use of profanity introduced itself and things went slowly downhill from this point. Sometimes things just don't work out despite all our efforts. Some of our behavior will simply be a result of our own physiological makeup. Some people will develop a tendency towards bad behavior no matter what their upbringing.

I guess we all try to raise our children the best we know how and also hope that they make it through to adulthood relatively unscathed. Life is not always a bed of Roses and we must learn this from life experience and from others as well. We must also learn and understand why people behave and act inappropriately at times due to the situations they are in. Sometimes the individual will meet with our disapproval of their behavior and at other times our sympathy.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:04 AM
as a person who recently finished the Slovak voice pack for FB Add-on CD, we put many equivalents of "sh*t" into it as our language is very rich in that, but absolutely no "G$% D$#@" cursing.



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:10 AM
mmanger wrote:
- As a follow-up to and earlier post about UK speech,
- someone pointed me in the direction of the correct
- folders and .wav files. I'll have to use US speech
- for now.
-
- It's good to know these are .wav's which I can edit.
- I don't care for the profanity that crops up, at
- least in English (not too worried about the German
- "scheisse") but if my boys are around, G** dammit
- and s**t aren't appreciated.

Don't have your boys around then ... pretty easy, ain't it?

Frankly I find it somewhat disturbing that it's the language that concerns you as a parent, and not the fact that the game is about enjoying killing as entertainment.

cheers/slush

http://dk.groups.yahoo.com/group/aktivitetsdage/files/Eurotrolls.gif

You can't handle the truth!
Col. Jessep

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:24 AM
Crimson Skies II is out. No profanity in it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif