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Ignacio_796
02-06-2014, 05:04 PM
I have seen this video of the difficult options of Thief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX9QkKya3-o

As the video shows, in Thief you can chose the difficulty of the game with a lot of options, given bonus and more points if chose to play a most hard experience.
So i was thinking that it would be a great idea to the see this in the next AC sequel.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-06-2014, 08:09 PM
I have seen this video of the difficult options of Thief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX9QkKya3-o

As the video shows, in Thief you can chose the difficulty of the game with a lot of options, given bonus and more points if chose to play a most hard experience.
So i was thinking that it would be a great idea to the see this in the next AC sequel.

.*facepalm*
Devs are scratched for time as it is...this adds nothing to the game but a longer trophy grind.

dxsxhxcx
02-06-2014, 08:22 PM
.*facepalm*
Devs are scratched for time as it is...this adds nothing to the game but a longer trophy grind.

it adds replay value (if done right)... and don't try to disqualify other people's opinions/suggestions (the *facepalm* wasn't necessary) just because you think the game is fine as it is...

LoyalACFan
02-06-2014, 08:31 PM
I hate difficulty settings, personally. In most cases, they're just a lazy way of raising or lowering the challenge by manipulating how much damage you can take.

They just need to find a level of difficulty that's somewhere in between "so easy that hardcore fans are bored" and "so hard that new fans are put off," and stick with that. TBH I think this was one of the few things that AC3 nailed, at least in terms of combat. It was accessible to newcomers, but it was varied enough to keep the most of the diehards engaged by trying to pull off flawless combos with different moves and double kills. AC4's was pretty meh in comparison. The only thing I would change from AC3's system is the amount of damage you can take (it was a bit too generous IMO) and remove the ridiculously long slo-mo counters (which they already did in AC4).

dxsxhxcx
02-06-2014, 08:41 PM
I hate difficulty settings, personally. In most cases, they're just a lazy way of raising or lowering the challenge by manipulating how much damage you can take.

They just need to find a level of difficulty that's somewhere in between "so easy that hardcore fans are bored" and "so hard that new fans are put off," and stick with that. TBH I think this was one of the few things that AC3 nailed, at least in terms of combat. It was accessible to newcomers, but it was varied enough to keep the most of the diehards engaged by trying to pull off flawless combos with different moves and double kills. AC4's was pretty meh in comparison. The only thing I would change from AC3's system is the amount of damage you can take (it was a bit too generous IMO) and remove the ridiculously long slo-mo counters (which they already did in AC4).

from what I remember in the Witcher 2 besides enemies' damage some other things change as well like shields blocking your direct attacks (on default difficulty, on easy they're just there for aesthetic purposes), and if I'm not wrong potions aren't as powerful as they are on the easy level, among other things, in AC they could make the guards behave differently, be more agressive, detect you faster, have more skills (like in AC1), deal more damage, walk in bigger groups, upgrades cost more, crafted items require more ingredients, get less money from chests, etc.. if done right things like this can provide a total different experience from one difficulty level to another...

LoyalACFan
02-06-2014, 08:56 PM
from what I remember in the Witcher 2 besides enemies' damage some other things change as well like shields blocking your direct attacks (on default difficulty, on easy they're just there for aesthetic purposes), and if I'm not wrong potions aren't as powerful as they are on the easy level, among other things, in AC they could make the guards behave differently, be more agressive, detect you faster, have more skills (like in AC1), deal more damage, walk in bigger groups, upgrades cost more, crafted items require more ingredients, get less money from chests, etc.. if done right things like this can provide a total different experience from one difficulty level to another...

Things in bold are what they should already be doing for base gameplay, screw the difficulty levels. At its core, AC is too easy; before they go off and throw in a bunch of arbitrary difficulty settings, they need to iron out central issues like stupid AI, excessively weak enemies, and easy combat. The rest of the stuff you mentioned just make it a grind, not a truly challenging experience. I mean, how hard is it to loot a chest? Not hard at all, but when you have to loot ten thousand chests to get enough money to buy one crappy upgrade, it's not making the game more difficult, it's making it more boring.

And STDly's actually 100% right on this one, they're already pushing it with the yearly release cycle. The last thing they need to do is make three to five different difficulty settings for the same game, when all they really need to do is make a single, balanced gameplay experience.

dxsxhxcx
02-06-2014, 09:21 PM
Things in bold are what they should already be doing for base gameplay, screw the difficulty levels. At its core, AC is too easy; before they go off and throw in a bunch of arbitrary difficulty settings, they need to iron out central issues like stupid AI, excessively weak enemies, and easy combat. The rest of the stuff you mentioned just make it a grind, not a truly challenging experience. I mean, how hard is it to loot a chest? Not hard at all, but when you have to loot ten thousand chests to get enough money to buy one crappy upgrade, it's not making the game more difficult, it's making it more boring.

And STDly's actually 100% right on this one, they're already pushing it with the yearly release cycle. The last thing they need to do is make three to five different difficulty settings for the same game, when all they really need to do is make a single, balanced gameplay experience.

you're right when you say that it can become a grind fest, but it can also make the player be more cautious and think how is the best way spend his/her resources instead of spend everything on the first thing he/she sees because he/she knows more money will come easily, you're also right that these kind of things (guards AI) should already be fixed at this point, but the reason why I think it should be separated by different difficulty levels is to give the player more options.


and I don't think time is a excuse here (I'm kinda tired of this excuse to be frank, they've been making these games for long enough to know their way around the basics of an AC game at this point but the core elements of the franchise remain practically the same since the 1st game, specially the combat system), I believe CD Projekt RED had a much smaller team than Ubisoft's AC team to develop (what I believe to be) a more complex game (The Witcher 2) than AC and also had almost the same time Ubisoft has to develop an AC game (they began to work in the game in 2009 and released it in 2011), and yet they were able to add all these things AC needs but doesn't have, hell, they even created their own engine for that game (The Witcher 2).

"Today, CD Projekt Red employs 150 people. They're split into three teams: one for The Witcher 3, one for Cyberpunk 2077 (which is currently smaller) and one for the proprietary Red Engine. More people will be hired, Badowski told me, but the upper limit for the studio will be a headcount of 200."

this is from an interview with the game director of The Witcher 3, Konrad Tomaszkiewicz, in this interview they say that NOW they have a much bigger team (of 150 people separated in 3 projects! If I'm not wrong TW3 will be released in 2015) than they had before because they are working with the next gen consoles as well, of course we don't know if TW3 will be a good game or not BUT if we assume that before this they had a smaller team to develop TW2 and were able to do all that, why Ubisoft can't do the same if they (presumably) have more resources?


here's the link to the interview:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-12-the-witcher-3-the-skyrim-debate-the-game-on-ps4-nuggets-of-clarification-and-a-whiff-of-multiplayer

BATISTABUS
02-06-2014, 11:16 PM
I think time has proven that AC definitely needs a difficulty setting. At this rate, the game will never be close to hard enough for hardcore players, and newcomers still find simple things difficult. The devs should design a "standard" challenging campaign, and then a "casual" setting (with more health, dumber AI, more lenient parameters) for those who just play AC for the story. If they really want to push it, they can throw in a "Mentor" mode that's balls-to-the-wall difficult for those trying to really push that replay value.

dxsxhxcx
02-06-2014, 11:26 PM
I think time has proven that AC definitely needs a difficulty setting. At this rate, the game will never be close to hard enough for hardcore players, and newcomers still find simple things difficult. The devs should design a "standard" challenging campaign, and then a "casual" setting (with more health, dumber AI, more lenient parameters) for those who just play AC for the story. If they really want to push it, they can throw in a "Mentor" mode that's balls-to-the-wall difficult for those trying to really push that replay value.

they should make the Mentor difficulty the easiest one, since some people won't feel badass enough knowing they'll be considered just "Assassins" instead of "Mentors".. (IMO a ridiculous thing to worry about but to each their own I guess)

IMO the difficulty levels should be called Assassin (hard or easy), Master Assassin (default), Mentor (easy or hard)...

Dellers
02-07-2014, 01:24 AM
.*facepalm*
Devs are scratched for time as it is...this adds nothing to the game but a longer trophy grind.

Pretty much that. Especially the whole points thing can be pretty annoying in games in general, and can make even a relatively casual gamer feel like they have OCD. I hate when there are points or rankings in games. They add no fun, but a lot of frustration and time I'd rather spend on something else (but I do like to complete games 100%).

AdamPearce
02-07-2014, 01:40 AM
they should make the Mentor difficulty the easiest one, since some people won't feel badass enough knowing they'll be considered just "Assassins" instead of "Mentors".. (IMO a ridiculous thing to worry about but to each their own I guess)

IMO the difficulty levels should be called Assassin (hard or easy), Master Assassin (default), Mentor (easy or hard)...

You have no creativity!

Novice (izi)
Disciple
Assassin
Ezio

:o)

UKassassinsfan
02-07-2014, 02:53 AM
They definitely need to do something with the difficulty, as a player who's been playing since ac1 this game is ridiculous easy! Just the core mechanics need to be improved, whilst people have argued that stealth is easier in this game, it's because the ai are so stupid! If you saw a hooded man walk out a bush and then duck down again, you wouldn't just be like "must be imagination...again". I love these games but difficulty is too easy, I think the best game for difficulty so far has been ac3

ACLexter
02-07-2014, 06:54 AM
They definitely need to do something with the difficulty, as a player who's been playing since ac1 this game is ridiculous easy! Just the core mechanics need to be improved, whilst people have argued that stealth is easier in this game, it's because the ai are so stupid! If you saw a hooded man walk out a bush and then duck down again, you wouldn't just be like "must be imagination...again". I love these games but difficulty is too easy, I think the best game for difficulty so far has been ac3

I agree, this is my only complain about stealth, it is too easy. and AI are like stupid guards, yeah, they can make it much difficult than before and improve the awareness of those AI guards, like if they see you pass and hide in the bush, they can consider that they have company and alarm the bells. its obvious that they see you. they should improve the stealth more. like if you are running around near the guards they will easily notice you, they should implement the crouching or other stealth approach as long as the guards won't hear your footsteps, that is stealth.

I hate it when I can run near the guards, if they notice me I just hide in the bush and I'm invisible again, its obvious they see me.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-07-2014, 05:50 PM
I think time has proven that AC definitely needs a difficulty setting. At this rate, the game will never be close to hard enough for hardcore players, and newcomers still find simple things difficult. The devs should design a "standard" challenging campaign, and then a "casual" setting (with more health, dumber AI, more lenient parameters) for those who just play AC for the story. If they really want to push it, they can throw in a "Mentor" mode that's balls-to-the-wall difficult for those trying to really push that replay value.

Actually I think quite the opposite. I think time has proven that difficulty settings are cliche things of the past. The difficulty of a game should be its game plain and simple . It's forgivable in shooters to practice mp (as it is much less forgiving on health) But other games...no. difficulty settings show a lazy attempt at creating replayablity. As stated above fixing the intelligence of ai is all that should be changed...but for seasoned players we should have tools available for it to be easy for us.
You seem to forget that ease is perception. If you've been playing assassins creed or sonic the hedgehog since it came out, it is expected that you're damn near pro at it. It should feel easy. While newcomers may feel frustrated.

UKassassinsfan
02-09-2014, 01:47 AM
Whilst there is a lot of new players, AC is a franchise which relies heavily on loyal fans that have played since the first game. It is far too easy but a game whilst having difficulty settings shouldn't just be increased AI health and lower player health it should be well thought out to make it realistic! The AI should be convincing, there have been times where I've stood less than 90 degrees from a guard and he hasn't noticed me, improved Ai or difficulty settings would make for more rewarding replayibilty and challenge

IWGCJoeCool
02-09-2014, 02:21 AM
Whilst there is a lot of new players, AC is a franchise which relies heavily on loyal fans that have played since the first game. It is far too easy but a game whilst having difficulty settings shouldn't just be increased AI health and lower player health it should be well thought out to make it realistic! The AI should be convincing, there have been times where I've stood less than 90 degrees from a guard and he hasn't noticed me, improved Ai or difficulty settings would make for more rewarding replayibilty and challenge

maybe one of the team guys would make a post about where the series is going, when the first PS4/XBone exclusive release finally hits. i'd like to know what they think they could do with the tech, besides making foilage and rain more lifelike. a sharper AI could already be in the works. and maybe a system where much of the HUD elements might slowly get transparant, and eventually disappearing, as you progress through the game, but leaving the option to re-enable them if you want. everyone could/should be happy with that, yes?


it IS EASY(er) for the longtime players, because we know what to expect, but no game is easy right away, because no two games really use the same controller/button/action scheme. but i prefer how this series is going. i dont really care for the fantasy games, like Skyrim, with all the options and skill trees. i thought that things got overboard post-ACII with the weapon tool wheels, but still, it's straightforward and adaptable.

but i'm the one always saying...gimme Altair with an extra hidden and the ability to arial, a sword, and a sack of knives, and i'm a happy but bloody wristed fool.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 04:35 AM
Whilst there is a lot of new players, AC is a franchise which relies heavily on loyal fans that have played since the first game. It is far too easy but a game whilst having difficulty settings shouldn't just be increased AI health and lower player health it should be well thought out to make it realistic! The AI should be convincing, there have been times where I've stood less than 90 degrees from a guard and he hasn't noticed me, improved Ai or difficulty settings would make for more rewarding replayibilty and challenge
If you actually look instead of assume, you would find that this isn't the case.
Long time customers don't keep a product relevant - NEW customers do.
People die. You can't let your product die with them.
It is clear that their target is new audience since Assassin's Creed Revelations.
If they focus on making the fans happy (who will buy no matter what) instead of trying to attract even more - the series will die.
It's a single player game at it's heart. It can't rely on mp like a first person shooter to get more to play... It needs its historical figures, settings, and jump right in combat.
Complications are a turn off....
If you put a new guy (majority) into a game that they die before they get a kill they wont give that game much of a chance. They need to be the victor 9/10 times.
Gaming is a casual hobby now, welcome to 2014. :)

travilanche
02-09-2014, 10:24 AM
I definitely agree something needs to be done about the difficulty. One man should not be able to cut through 15 guards at once without getting hit a single time. Now Dont get me wrong...I like the combat system they have at the moment. But the guards are stupid AF! Why can't more than one guard in a group stab at you every 30 seconds? This makes the game just way too easy. There is absolutely no incentive to stay out of open combat.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 06:01 PM
I definitely agree something needs to be done about the difficulty. One man should not be able to cut through 15 guards at once without getting hit a single time. Now Dont get me wrong...I like the combat system they have at the moment. But the guards are stupid AF! Why can't more than one guard in a group stab at you every 30 seconds? This makes the game just way too easy. There is absolutely no incentive to stay out of open combat.

1. You must have never played Assassin's Creed Revelations if you never felt an incentive to stay out of combat...If you go into that game as a newb, you will get eaten alive. (I'm sure this was the case for newbs in AC3 and POSSIBLY AC4, ac4 was a little more simple than AC3 and ACR)
2. Why on earth would they want you to stay out of combat?
Combat is at this games core since AC1..
This is NOT a stealth game, never has been.
This is ASSASSIN'S Creed not NINJA'S Creed
An assassin has no rule but to eliminate a target.

asĚsasĚsin
əˈsasin/Submit
noun
1.
a murderer of an important person in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.

ninĚja
ˈninjə/Submit
noun
1.
a person skilled in ninjutsu.

ninĚjutĚsu
ninˈjo͝otso͞o/
noun
1.
The traditional Japanese art of stealth, camouflage, and sabotage, developed in feudal times for espionage and now practiced as a martial art.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!!!

SixKeys
02-09-2014, 06:15 PM
An assassin has no rule but to eliminate a target.


Yes, they do. To wit:

1. Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent.
2. Hide in plain sight.
3. Never compromise the brotherhood.

I'm pretty sure going around starting fights in the middle of the street breaks all three.

lothario-da-be
02-09-2014, 06:17 PM
Yes, they do. To wit:

1. Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent.
2. Hide in plain sight.
3. Never compromise the brotherhood.

I'm pretty sure going around starting fights in the middle of the street breaks all three.
Imagine ac combat being as hard as dark souls, that would encourage stealth and add tension.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 06:31 PM
Yes, they do. To wit:

1. Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent.
2. Hide in plain sight.
3. Never compromise the brotherhood.

I'm pretty sure going around starting fights in the middle of the street breaks all three.

We dont have the option to not stay our blade from the flesh of an innocent any more....
So open combat is fine.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 06:35 PM
Imagine ac combat being as hard as dark souls, that would encourage stealth and add tension.

What percentage actually finish dark souls?
Half of the games buyers don't even get half way through the game before they are done with it...
How would that be beneficial any series?

SixKeys
02-09-2014, 06:44 PM
We dont have the option to not stay our blade from the flesh of an innocent any more....
So open combat is fine.

What do you mean? Of course we do.

Rugterwyper32
02-09-2014, 07:25 PM
What percentage actually finish dark souls?
Half of the games buyers don't even get half way through the game before they are done with it...
How would that be beneficial any series?

Here's the thing: Combat in Dark Souls isn't as hard as it's commonly believed. It's a thing about timing, not rushing into it head on and trying to take on small amounts of enemies at a time. You also don't have a stealth option at all, you're meant to fight every enemy or have a low equip load and run past as fast as possible. Also, Dark Souls combat relies on a few important things AC doesn't have: Equip load, RPG stats, a variety of weapons with attacks entirely different to each other and how you handle your stamina.
In AC, it doesn't really matter if you're using the dagger or hidden blade or sword in combat, the only that makes any sort of difference is the fists. In Dark Souls, your playstyle and timing varies a lot depending on what weapon you use, your dodge speed changes depending on how much equip load you have, and so on.

If there's one thing the series could learn about Dark Souls is making the timing for counters smaller (it's too big as it is) and making differences between weapons more meaningful, but it's certainly a different beast.

It does sadden me that a lot of people find Dark Souls so difficult to beat and they give up so easily, I'm by my third run already and I can see many more in the future. Incredibly hyped about 2. Learning more about the lore of that world will help, it's amazing.

LatinaC09
02-09-2014, 07:54 PM
I really don't think they should bother with difficulty settings for this game simply because they have the optional objectives/100% synch. It would get really tedious to have to deal with both. I like the optional objectives as they are. For me they add a certain level of difficulty because they change the way you need to do things (some of the time). In my opinion difficulty settings wouldn't add anything to the game but a giant headache.

Hans684
02-09-2014, 08:13 PM
Or a game where you make the difficulty yourself, the game has the tools and you choose how to use them.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 09:15 PM
What do you mean? Of course we do.

I havent been able to kill a beggar since ACR lol..I dont remember if you can kill citizens in AC3 but I know for sure you cant in AC4

Fatal-Feit
02-09-2014, 09:25 PM
I havent been able to kill a beggar since ACR lol..I dont remember if you can kill citizens in AC3 but I know for sure you cant in AC4

Aim your pistol at their heads and pull the trigger. It's doable in both games.

I'm really glad they took out the option to kill civilians with the square button. The old controls was so messy that I ended up assassinating a civilian when I'm in a chase.

STDlyMcStudpants
02-09-2014, 11:00 PM
Aim your pistol at their heads and pull the trigger. It's doable in both games.

I'm really glad they took out the option to kill civilians with the square button. The old controls was so messy that I ended up assassinating a civilian when I'm in a chase.
They aint never say stay your pistol 8)
I like to kill annoying citizens... so i kinda wish it was back ;D

dxsxhxcx
02-09-2014, 11:15 PM
Or a game where you make the difficulty yourself, the game has the tools and you choose how to use them.

still waiting for them to implement such tools... :p

Hans684
02-10-2014, 05:37 PM
still waiting for them to implement such tools... :p

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/821900-AC-improvements-casual-and-hardcore-solution

Everything before the random stuff section. There is a good sett of tools.