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View Full Version : isnt turning in aep too easy?



raaaid
03-22-2004, 12:40 PM
i find my self turning in version 2.0 with my joystick 90% of time fully pulled without stalling

i think they make it more arcade like the same way than a race arcade simulator the car wont spin however hard you spin the wheel.

besides is even difficult stalling on purpose

european air war and cfs were much better, with them you had to be very carefull with stalling and you hardly ever got to pull the joystick fully

now with equal planes in equal conditions in a dog fight both players will be with their joysticks pulled fully turning at the same rate

i expect to be doing something wrong because other else it should have been called rookie expansion pack.

i have the pitch filter set to 8 could that be the reason?

raaaid
03-22-2004, 12:40 PM
i find my self turning in version 2.0 with my joystick 90% of time fully pulled without stalling

i think they make it more arcade like the same way than a race arcade simulator the car wont spin however hard you spin the wheel.

besides is even difficult stalling on purpose

european air war and cfs were much better, with them you had to be very carefull with stalling and you hardly ever got to pull the joystick fully

now with equal planes in equal conditions in a dog fight both players will be with their joysticks pulled fully turning at the same rate

i expect to be doing something wrong because other else it should have been called rookie expansion pack.

i have the pitch filter set to 8 could that be the reason?

aerick2
03-22-2004, 12:56 PM
Whether you stall out with the stick pulled all the way back varies greatly depending on aircraft type, speed, altitude, and whether you have flaps down. Planes like the Spit and Hurricane turn beautifully without much tendancy to stall, whereas some larger planes like the P-47, P-38, and ME-110 stall relatively easily in sharp turns.

What planes/circumstances does your comment refer to??

CO_Eagle_31stFG
03-22-2004, 01:04 PM
Check your game settings you may not be on the hard settings.

carguy_
03-22-2004, 01:08 PM
Check your input settings.Every plane in this game will stall if you pull the stick[under 400km/h].

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-22-2004, 01:25 PM
"isnt turning in aep too easy?"


no.



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VW-IceFire
03-22-2004, 01:39 PM
The stalling in turns is now more sigificant than ever before in FB (more like the IL2 demo days - not quite there - that was almost silly).

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SeaFireLIV
03-22-2004, 01:42 PM
Yes, I`ll bet it`s the joystick settings. I`ve had my default stick set so no matter how hard I pull I cannot stall the plane. Sounds great. Problem is online(and offline), you need to ride the `stall` thresh hold or you get shot down.

Readjusting my stick settings meant I can ride on the `edge of the stall`. And of course now I can stall easily if I force ot too much.

It`s just your stick settings.

You shouldn`t accuse a sim of arcade because you`ve not checked your own settings. Then again, perhaps you`re playing in arcade mode! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV...

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JR_Greenhorn
03-22-2004, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
like the IL2 demo days - that was almost silly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I liked the stall FM of the demo; it forced a person to fly smoothly. It also gave the P-39 much more character. I guess I don't know how accurate it was, but I would think it more accurate than the FB FM.

RocketDog
03-22-2004, 01:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
like the IL2 demo days - that was almost silly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I liked the stall FM of the demo; it forced a person to fly smoothly. It also gave the P-39 much more character. I guess I don't know how accurate it was, but I would think it more accurate than the FB FM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Real WWII fighters were designed to be flown by pilots with very limited flying hours - sometimes only a few tens of hours. I suspect very few of them stalled as easily as aircraft do in FB or no-one would have survived basic training.

Further, airctaft in FB stall with almost no warning - the sound of buffeting that was in earlier versions of the game seems to have been removed and without a g indicator, it is very difficult to know how close the aircraft is to stalling. The buffeting provided by FF sticks is nicely done, but it should be backed up by other queues warning of an impending stall.

Regards,

RocketDog.

Flamin_Squirrel
03-22-2004, 03:29 PM
No, trainers were designed to to be flown by pilots with limited flying hours, fighters were not.

Take for example the 109. With its high power engine and leading edge slats that could pop out asymetricaly, inexperienced pilots could find themselves on their back before they had a clue what was going on.

We dont have as many physical clues as real pilots, but with practice you can learn to anticipate how the aircraft will respond in given situations.

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2004, 03:33 PM
I don't use FB sound and I have no problem seeing any stall on any plane coming from the Shake.

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JG7_Rall
03-22-2004, 03:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RocketDog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
like the IL2 demo days - that was almost silly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I liked the stall FM of the demo; it forced a person to fly smoothly. It also gave the P-39 much more character. I guess I don't know how accurate it was, but I would think it more accurate than the FB FM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Real WWII fighters were designed to be flown by pilots with very limited flying hours - sometimes only a few tens of hours. I suspect very few of them stalled as easily as aircraft do in FB or no-one would have survived basic training.

Further, airctaft in FB stall with almost no warning - the sound of buffeting that was in earlier versions of the game seems to have been removed and without a g indicator, it is very difficult to know how close the aircraft is to stalling. The buffeting provided by FF sticks is nicely done, but it should be backed up by other queues warning of an impending stall.

Regards,

RocketDog.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't be farther from the truth. Please cite your source for this, then burn it. Fighters where made to be unstable; thats where they get their maneuverability from. Learn to use your ears and get to know your plane better-avoiding stalls will be a lot easier that way.

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"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
When in doubt, climb!

Jezzadog
03-23-2004, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RocketDog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JR_Greenhorn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
like the IL2 demo days - that was almost silly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I liked the stall FM of the demo; it forced a person to fly smoothly. It also gave the P-39 much more character. I guess I don't know how accurate it was, but I would think it more accurate than the FB FM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Real WWII fighters were designed to be flown by pilots with very limited flying hours - sometimes only a few tens of hours. I suspect very few of them stalled as easily as aircraft do in FB or no-one would have survived basic training.

Further, airctaft in FB stall with almost no warning - the sound of buffeting that was in earlier versions of the game seems to have been removed and without a g indicator, it is very difficult to know how close the aircraft is to stalling. The buffeting provided by FF sticks is nicely done, but it should be backed up by other queues warning of an impending stall.

Regards,

RocketDog.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't be farther from the truth. Please cite your source for this, then burn it. Fighters where made to be unstable; thats where they get their maneuverability from. Learn to use your ears and get to know your plane better-avoiding stalls will be a lot easier that way.

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/Typhoon_Target_resized_copy.jpg
_"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."_
When in doubt, climb!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> </pre>

Jezzadog
03-23-2004, 05:13 AM
Sorry JG7-Rall - let that one slip through without my reply attached!

Can't agree with your comment "Fighters were made to be unstable; that's where they get their manoeuvrability from".

Ever tried flying an unstable aircraft? Don't think you would be very happy (unless it's a newfangled jet with artificial stability and cunning controls). Pull back on the stick and the puppy DIVERGES - push forwards and it DIVERGES - pull back again and (guess what).

As a simplistic overview all "normal" aircraft possess static stability (and I won't confuse the issue by mentioning dynamic and manoeuvre stability). The degree of stability depends on their "job". The stability of fighter aircraft is therefore typically LOWER than that of (say) bombers or transport aircraft - but they are stable nonetheless!

"The mark of a good combat pilot is that he can throw himself at the ground - and miss"

609IAP_Recon
03-23-2004, 05:13 AM
" I suspect very few of them stalled as easily as aircraft do in FB or no-one would have survived basic training. "


Many didn't survive basic training.


It is quite easy to not stall though - and some guy in HL last night was bashing this game because he stalled too much (stigler?)

Maybe from experience I don't stall as much, but I do remember stalling alot more in IL2.

Salute!

JG50_Recon

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----
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03-23-2004, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Many didn't survive basic training.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fatal accidents happen even when applying for driver's license. Doesn't mean cars are made to be unstable.

I'm not sure what group of pilots JG_7 Rall talked with, but the group I know sure don't agree with him.

michapma
03-23-2004, 06:03 AM
Here is an account (http://home.worldonline.dk/winthrop/stanwood.html) of a near-fatal training accident:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I had intentionally spun the plane before and the normal spin recovery is simple and easy to accomplish, opposite rudder, pop the stick (wheel in a 38) and dive out of it. However, this day, as I was upside down on my back with my gun cameras blasting away at my wingman during a rat race, I stalled into a really great flat spin. After about three turns I managed to come out of the spin and pulled back on the yolk. The ground looked to be coming up in a hurry, so being in too much of a hurry I pulled back too hard on the yolk and went into a secondary high speed stall and went into a spin in the opposite direction. This is not good and when hearing my buddy calling the field telling them that a 38 was going in and to send out the crash trucks I felt that this really wasn't my day. Opposite rudder, pop the stick to come out after another two turns and then pulling back slowly. This time I did manage to come out of the spin. I pulled out over a little meadow not more than five feet from the ground. I can still see the trees on both sides of my plane as I pulled out and up. The lesson here is that you never give up. Never stop flying the airplane. Wait until you have landed before you panic. From that experience I have to admit that I was shaking a bit after I had landed. I have seen friends die because they gave up and didn't fly the plane all the way to the ground.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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TgD Thunderbolt56
03-23-2004, 06:36 AM
The stall characteristics are defintely NOT the issue...or at least they shouldn't be...but rather the incidence of an unrecoverable flat spin. There are, it seems, too many unrecoverable flat spins. I realize the stability of some aircraft was better than others, but Cripes A' Mighty! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif

(a little plug for maj. Preddy there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )



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Diablo310th
03-23-2004, 06:45 AM
Is it me or does the P-47d27 seem to go into a flat spin way to easily and often? It seems since AEP came out that I hit a flat spin alot more often and it seems i can never recover from it.

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JG46_Max
03-23-2004, 06:49 AM
could anyone post the settings for the joystick please, after installing AEP those settings are all gone to default.

michapma
03-23-2004, 07:10 AM
I'll bet a lot of people did just forget to reset their input sensitivities.

Max, which settings did you have in mind? Check the readme files for the previous patches, Oleg provided input for all three axes of movement that does much better than the default. I am still using those settings. I think they were with patch 1.11. It used to be on the game updates page of the official site, but it's definitely in the readme.

C!

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karost
03-23-2004, 08:29 AM
Hi, raaaid and friends


I still remember IL-2 demo and IL-2 sturmovik it was cool close to EAW in FM .... that time .. p-39 just for respect pilot only.

but since IL-2 FB make me feel like playing Jane WWII ....it's. easy to fly ( ....Ops... what did I said ...! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

then, seem like many friends can recover in AEP, not easy.... not warning ..... spin/stall and in Ta-152 make me fat -spin / stall is hard to recover and terrible like I fly p-51 or 109 in EAW .... and I see AI (ace) spin / stall in spit5 too wow...... LOL

So, do you thing P-39 in IL-2 sturmovik and AEP which one more respect in FM .... ???

S!