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StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 12:06 AM
Who and how? I have Edward by a longshot, Adewale (obviously killed others) fought slavers whereas Edward fought Assassins and Templars and was immensely successful in doing so.

Adewale was awesome though, freedom cry was great.

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 12:16 AM
Who and how? I have Edward by a longshot, Adewale (obviously killed others) fought slavers whereas Edward fought Assassins and Templars and was immensely successful in doing so.

Adewale was awesome though, freedom cry was great.
Who says adewale didn't fight Templars he was an assassin for a good amount of years he could've taken out some templars

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 12:27 AM
Obviously killed others

The large majority of Edwards fighting life consisted of fighting not only the Spanish and English but assassins and Templars as well.

Fatal-Feit
01-28-2014, 12:32 AM
That depends on when they are fighting. If its during the events of AC:IV, Edward would win because Adewale wasn't a fully trained Assassin. If its during Freedom Cry, well... Let's just say Edward can't attend.

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 12:37 AM
That depends on when they are fighting. If its during the events of AC:IV, Edward would win because Adewale wasn't a fully trained Assassin. If its during Freedom Cry, well... Let's just say Edward can't attend.

Edward was happily married raising his kids, of course he would lose.

But if a prime Edward fought a prime Adewale, Adewale would be in a whole lot of trouble.

MasterAssasin84
01-28-2014, 12:38 AM
I only saw Adewale Rescue Slaves to be perfectly Honest !! Machete kills was Lame !! i think they could done Soo much better with Adewale's story because he has such great potential !! but Freedom Cry was absolute Trash !! .... sorry but thats my opinion ! On topic !! Edward's Kills was far more awe inspiring !!

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 01:01 AM
Edward was awesome, his kills were a work of art.

MasterAssasin84
01-28-2014, 01:10 AM
To be fair Anto was right when he stated that anything to do with Freedom is Assassins Affairs but I was deeply worried when i played freedom cry that there was only a few examples of hunting the templars because of their seal on the package !! Adewale got caught up in something that seriously contradicted his conviction during his Time with Edward !! i my opinion he was not an Assassin in Freedom Cry just a liberator due to the fact he felt compelled to rescue slaves rather than Hunt the Templars !! .

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 01:26 AM
To be fair Anto was right when he stated that anything to do with Freedom is Assassins Affairs but I was deeply worried when i played freedom cry that there was only a few examples of hunting the templars because of their seal on the package !! Adewale got caught up in something that seriously contradicted his conviction during his Time with Edward !! i my opinion he was not an Assassin in Freedom Cry just a liberator due to the fact he felt compelled to rescue slaves rather than Hunt the Templars !! .
Thts pretty much what ezio did and wht conviction did he have with edward

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 01:26 AM
Adewale, no question. Edward's moves are flashier, but a lot of his movements are just pointless hits and flourishes. Adewale doesn't mess around.

Plus, let's put it this way;

Edward at age 42: dying at the hands of two mercenaries in combat
Adewale at age 45: impaling tyrants with branding irons and disemboweling them with machetes

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 01:27 AM
Adewale, no question. Edward's moves are flashier, but a lot of his movements are just pointless hits and flourishes. Adewale doesn't mess around.

Plus, let's put it this way;

Edward at age 42: dying at the hands of two mercenaries in combat
Adewale at age 45: impaling tyrants with branding irons

To be fair Edward didn't really have really of his equipment

MasterAssasin84
01-28-2014, 01:28 AM
Thts pretty much what ezio did and wht conviction did he have with edward


Adewale's Conviction and beliefs was with the Assassins as the story progressed !! but Freedom cry did not reflect this in my opinion .

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 01:29 AM
To be fair Edward didn't really have really of his equipment

You have to be unarmed to get the branding iron... :p

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 01:32 AM
Adewale's Conviction and beliefs was with the Assassins as the story progressed !! but Freedom cry did not reflect this in my opinion .

I mean yeah u didn't feel that way because of the fact that adewale chose to help those he could connect with he was more with the maroons on this one but at least he mentioned the assassins

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 01:34 AM
You have to be unarmed to get the branding iron... :p

Yeah but we don't know how adewale took the iron heck he could have stealthed it
And about Edward we don't know wat truly happened in tht fight for all we know they used some hidden artifact to kill him
But all we know is that he was stabbed in the chest by the mercenaries we don't know how they stabbed him though

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 01:55 AM
Yeah but we don't know how adewale took the iron heck he could have stealthed it
And about Edward we don't know wat truly happened in tht fight for all we know they used some hidden artifact to kill him
But all we know is that he was stabbed in the chest by the mercenaries we don't know how they stabbed him though

There's no way to stealth that mission and get the branding iron. You can't reach DuFayet without being seen. You could shoot him, but then you wouldn't have the iron.

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 02:08 AM
There's no way to stealth that mission and get the branding iron. You can't reach DuFayet without being seen. You could shoot him, but then you wouldn't have the iron.

I know how the mission goes
I'm basing this off of the first ac1 how when u killed a target ur bar went red
While it doesn't do that in later games I think that indicates that wasn't exactly the way the ancestor did the assassination
And canon or not the secret crusade did give more stealth to Altair so just throwing it out there

MasterAssasin84
01-28-2014, 02:22 AM
I mean yeah u didn't feel that way because of the fact that adewale chose to help those he could connect with he was more with the maroons on this one but at least he mentioned the assassins

But The Assassins main purpose is to Hunt the Templars and free those who are affected by them ! Yes he spoke of the Assassins but he was a simple liberator not an Assassin in my eyes .

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 02:31 AM
But The Assassins main purpose is to Hunt the Templars and free those who are affected by them ! Yes he spoke of the Assassins but he was a simple liberator not an Assassin in my eyes .

They're isn't just about the Templars it's about freedom in general they don't help those only affected bybtemplars

MasterAssasin84
01-28-2014, 02:41 AM
They're isn't just about the Templars it's about freedom in general they don't help those only affected bybtemplars

Hmm i seem to have completely missed the Point of Assassins Creed !! after years of playing through the franchise since the first game !! ... Sorry but Ubi seem to be digressing and i am not liking the direction its going ! Freedom Cry was a complete waste of Oxygen ! The only build up was the Box that Ezio gave Shao Jun which mysteriously ended up in porto Prince ? , Don't get me wrong its a cool cliff hanger but i though Freedom Cry was not worth the Mega Bytes it was stored on !

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 03:06 AM
Hmm i seem to have completely missed the Point of Assassins Creed !! after years of playing through the franchise since the first game !! ... Sorry but Ubi seem to be digressing and i am not liking the direction its going ! Freedom Cry was a complete waste of Oxygen ! The only build up was the Box that Ezio gave Shao Jun which mysteriously ended up in porto Prince ? , Don't get me wrong its a cool cliff hanger but i though Freedom Cry was not worth the Mega Bytes it was stored on !
I don't care what u thought if freedom cry and I not saying u missed the point
U thought it was a waste of oxygen ok? And
I thought It was good I could give two turds what others thought of it IMO

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 03:13 AM
Adewale, no question. Edward's moves are flashier, but a lot of his movements are just pointless hits and flourishes. Adewale doesn't mess around.

Plus, let's put it this way;

Edward at age 42: dying at the hands of two mercenaries in combat
Adewale at age 45: impaling tyrants with branding irons and disemboweling them with machetes

What? While Edward may be flashy, nothing he does is useless. To even suggest that Adewale is the better trained fighter in this argument is lunacy, Edward is a poet in motion. Adewale's swordsmanship is rudimentary at best compared to Edward.

Yes, Adewale is brutal but is that to say Edward isn't?

Not to mention, who exactly has Adewale fought (that's worth mentioning)? Seriously, who - De Fayette? An older aristocrat? From what weve seen, his claim to fame was killing untraiend slavers. Edward has killed Duncan Walpole, Julien De Casse, Woodes Rogers, Bart Roberts, John Cockram, Josiah Burgess, and El Tiburon. Not to mention the fact that he snuck into Tulum, managing to kill/choke out (depending on how you play) a NUMBER of Assassins along the way.

And in regards to the whole age thing, Edward was a father and a Husband not a full blown Assassin like he once was. Think B-Hop vs Roy Jones,

MasterAssasin84
01-28-2014, 03:14 AM
I don't care what u thought if freedom cry and I not saying u missed the point
U thought it was a waste of oxygen ok? And
I thought It was good I could give two turds what others thought of it IMO

Did i insult your opinion ?

Listen the point i was making is Freedom Cry lost its way ! Adewale has so much potential as An Assassin But freedom cry was to heavy on the slavery theme ! the story was completely dismissive of the Assassins Creed Concept !! he was freeing slaves thats it !.. IMO the game does not warrant the title !

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 03:50 AM
Did i insult your opinion ?

Listen the point i was making is Freedom Cry lost its way ! Adewale has so much potential as An Assassin But freedom cry was to heavy on the slavery theme ! the story was completely dismissive of the Assassins Creed Concept !! he was freeing slaves thats it !.. IMO the game does not warrant the title !
Dude tht slavery represents nearly everything the assassins are against
Huge example would be TWCB they had pretty much used their creations as slaves
After the war the Templars pretty much wanted to continue that while the assassins didn't want to be like their "parents" (TWCB)
Overall assassins are always for freedom no matter in what way shape or form
The description for freedom cry pretty much states it's all about slavery as ade must"rediscover" the reality of the life he escaped from

phoenix-force411
01-28-2014, 03:52 AM
Edward, 'cause it's his game, and he has all da feels!

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 03:56 AM
What? While Edward may be flashy, nothing he does is useless. To even suggest that Adewale is the better trained fighter in this argument is lunacy, Edward is a poet in motion. Adewale's swordsmanship is rudimentary at best compared to Edward.

Yes, Adewale is brutal but is that to say Edward isn't?

Not to mention, who exactly has Adewale fought (that's worth mentioning)? Seriously, who - De Fayette? An older aristocrat? From what weve seen, his claim to fame was killing untraiend slavers. Edward has killed Duncan Walpole, Julien De Casse, Woodes Rogers, Bart Roberts, John Cockram, Josiah Burgess, and El Tiburon. Not to mention the fact that he snuck into Tulum, managing to kill/choke out (depending on how you play) a NUMBER of Assassins along the way.

And in regards to the whole age thing, Edward was a father and a Husband not a full blown Assassin like he once was. Think B-Hop vs Roy Jones,
Killing someone can be different than fighting somebody
Most of the people u mentioned he stealth killed (unfortunately by full sync)
He bench assassinated Rogers air assassinated casses killed an injured Duncan Walpole choked out assassins who knew he was there but didn't know where he was on the island
He double assassinated Cochram and the other guy (the only people he fought were the assassins in Havana Roberts ( I think don't know how he actually used the rope dart in the battle) and el tiburon
But I do agree with u bout Edward being a father

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 04:07 AM
What? While Edward may be flashy, nothing he does is useless

He frequently stabs/slashes enemies more times than necessary, and throws in random punches in some of his counter-kills.


Yes, Adewale is brutal but is that to say Edward isn't?

All the Assassins are, Adewale's just more brutal than the others. Only Connor rivals him in terms of sheer force.


Not to mention, who exactly has Adewale fought (that's worth mentioning)? Seriously, who - De Fayette? An older aristocrat?

Yeah, an older aristocrat surrounded by dozens of guards (who he must have fought too, since you can't stealth your way through and get full sync)


Edward has killed Duncan Walpole, Julien De Casse, Woodes Rogers, Bart Roberts, John Cockram, Josiah Burgess, and El Tiburon.

Technically only El Tiburon and Duncan Walpole; all the others were ambushes according to full sync, they didn't even put up a fight. Plus, Duncan was severely injured with a broken hidden blade, and he just shot El Tiburon to death. He died like the swordsman in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Hardly something to crow about.


Not to mention the fact that he snuck into Tulum, managing to kill/choke out (depending on how you play) a NUMBER of Assassins along the way.

That's got nothing to do with his fighting style. And I actually agree, Edward seemed sneakier than Ade.


And in regards to the whole age thing, Edward was a father and a Husband not a full blown Assassin like he once was. Think B-Hop vs Roy Jones,

He was a father and a husband... and an Assassin. Just like Giovanni Auditore.



That's how I see things, anyway. I just didn't like Edward's swordplay because it looked too choreographed and Hollywood-y. Now, his hidden blade moves WERE poetry in motion. And we can't really compare them to Adewale, since they just copy/pasted them over to Freedom Cry.

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 04:09 AM
He frequently stabs/slashes enemies more times than necessary, and throws in random punches in some of his counter-kills.



All the Assassins are, Adewale's just more brutal than the others. Only Connor rivals him in terms of sheer force.



Yeah, an older aristocrat surrounded by dozens of guards (who he must have fought too, since you can't stealth your way through and get full sync)



Technically only El Tiburon and Duncan Walpole; all the others were ambushes according to full sync, they didn't even put up a fight. Plus, Duncan was severely injured with a broken hidden blade, and he just shot El Tiburon to death. He died like the swordsman in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Hardly something to crow about.



That's got nothing to do with his fighting style. And I actually agree, Edward seemed sneakier than Ade.



He was a father and a husband... and an Assassin. Just like Giovanni Auditore.



That's how I see things, anyway. I just didn't like Edward's swordplay because it looked too choreographed and Hollywood-y. Now, his hidden blade moves WERE poetry in motion. And we can't really compare them to Adewale, since they just copy/pasted them over to Freedom Cry.
Thing bout cockram and his buddy is that they count double counters as part of full sync so I'm not sure how that battle truly went

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 04:13 AM
Thing bout cockram and his buddy is that they count double counters as part of full sync so I'm not sure how that battle truly went

I just shot them both. Dual pistol kills count too. And since double counters almost never happen in combat...

Plus, were they even really supposed to be good fighters anyway? They just seemed like random crew members Hornigold was fond of. Even their database entries say they were throwaway characters.

Fatal-Feit
01-28-2014, 04:14 AM
That's how I see things, anyway. I just didn't like Edward's swordplay because it looked too choreographed and Hollywood-y. Now, his hidden blade moves WERE poetry in motion. And we can't really compare them to Adewale, since they just copy/pasted them over to Freedom Cry.

Not just hidden blades. His 1-hand and fists had some really sharp animations.

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 04:18 AM
Not just hidden blades. His 1-hand and fists had some really sharp animations.

The fist animations are exactly the same as Connor's though. I don't really count those as Edward's. But yeah, his single sword animations were neat. Better than the duals IMO. His style was kind of a mix of Connor and Haytham.

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 04:22 AM
The fist animations are exactly the same as Connor's though. I don't really count those as Edward's. But yeah, his single sword animations were neat. Better than the duals IMO. His style was kind of a mix of Connor and Haytham.

We'll he is their father an grandfather so technically they copied after him

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 04:24 AM
We'll he is their father an grandfather so technically they copied after him

Connor and Edward never met though.

Fatal-Feit
01-28-2014, 04:29 AM
The fist animations are exactly the same as Connor's though. I don't really count those as Edward's. But yeah, his single sword animations were neat. Better than the duals IMO. His style was kind of a mix of Connor and Haytham.

RT + X animations

And I think that was what they were going for with his 1-hand animations. It was cool enough to keep me disarming guards.

[edit]Jaysus, jumping back onto AC:3 and messing around with the combat makes you so much more appreciative of that game every time.

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 05:00 AM
[QUOTE=LoyalACFan;9510602]Connor and Edward never met though.[/
Nah really?
Anyway what I mean is that Connor inherited his natural skills form his abuelo

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 05:12 AM
He frequently stabs/slashes enemies more times than necessary, and throws in random punches in some of his counter-kills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbF1-uE_8EY

There's a whole montage of Edward's fighting skills. Edward is an infinitely better swordsman than Adewale, while Adewale may be brutal his skills are rudimentary at best. His moves are basic hack and slash, he has none if the nuance and grace that Edward possesses. Not to mention, you said Edward throws random punches In his executions - I highly disagree. If anything, Ade wastes punches and its evident in more than a few of his executions. If I remember correctly, one execution Ade slashes a guard or slaver in the leg then he throws a 4 punch combo before finally killing him.

Another aspect neglected, would be Edwards superior speed, agility and athleticism. Edward is literally 5x faster than Ade.

All the Assassins are, Adewale's just more brutal than the others. Only Connor rivals him in terms of sheer force.
Even if he is, how does his sheer force account for his lack of training? The guy isn't half the swordsman, or fighter that Edward is.


Yeah, an older aristocrat surrounded by dozens of guards (who he must have fought too, since you can't stealth your way through and get full sync)
Oh come on, are you really trying to use this to validate Adewale as some supreme Assassin? Please, he killed an aristocrat and his bodyguards which in the grand scheme of things really pales in comparison to Edward's body of work.


Technically only El Tiburon and Duncan Walpole; all the others were ambushes according to full sync, they didn't even put up a fight. Plus, Duncan was severely injured with a broken hidden blade, and he just shot El Tiburon to death. He died like the swordsman in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Hardly something to crow about.
Oh come on, really? I'll use your argument against you. He had to fight through a jungle full of Julien De Casse's crewmen, only to air assassinate him. He had to fight off god knows how many of Bart Robert's crewmen on Principe before boarding his ship, killing more of his crewmen only to hang him with a rope dart. Josiah Burgess and John Cockram were both incredibly respected privateers - and btw I double countered them (which gave me 100% sync).

And Don't get me started on El Tiburon, lets be honest if Adewale were to fight him - El Tiburon would hack him to bits. Like You said, Adewale is sheer force. Good luck trying to bum rush a beast like El Tiburon. And in regards to him "just shooting him to death", that's ridiculous. He killed him, and last I checked guns>swords. I'm sure you would credit Adewale for killing the body guards with his blunderbuss - why not credit Edward?

And even if Duncan Walpole was injured, even if he was at his worst. He's still 100x better than anyone Adewale has fought.


That's got nothing to do with his fighting style. And I actually agree, Edward seemed sneakier than Ade.

Um yeah it does,but we can agree on that. Edward is a pro.


He was a father and a husband... and an Assassin. Just like Giovanni Auditore.
Come on, really? Are you actually insinuating that a 42 year old father of two has the same athleticism, vigor and combat ability as the 20 something year old captain who laid waste to pirates, captains, Templars and assassins alike?


That's how I see things, anyway. I just didn't like Edward's swordplay because it looked too choreographed and Hollywood-y. Now, his hidden blade moves WERE poetry in motion. And we can't really compare them to Adewale, since they just copy/pasted them over to Freedom Cry
At least we agree on the hidden blades, the double counters are SO slick with hidden blades. I wouldn't say the double swords were Hollywood-ish at all, it really showcased how undeniably awesome Edward was.

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 05:14 AM
Let me also say. Edward rarely wastes a slash, punch or kick. If its not doing max damage, it's setting up for another potentially fatal blow. A true master.

Edit:
I get double counters as frequently if not more than AC3. For a skilled player, it comes very, very easy. I get at least two every time I enter a fight,

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 05:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFYl2WXKeA

Another video of Edward's body of work

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 05:32 AM
And another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqucfkVwjX0

EaglePrince25
01-28-2014, 05:43 AM
How is this even an argument? Edward.

dbzk1999
01-28-2014, 05:47 AM
All really can really go by is tht we played as Edward more but I'd like to see if el tiburon could survive a blunderbuss shot

MeMckee
01-28-2014, 06:33 AM
I liked Ade's style as a change of pace. That said, Edward has him beat by miles in grace,economy of movement and skill.

BTW, Altair and Ezio are both laughing in the afterlife at the ineptitude of modern day assassins fighting styles.;)

Gibbo2g_83
01-28-2014, 01:30 PM
I would say Edward is better for combat I love the spinning sword attack his double counter kills are amazing as well although I've only seen double counters happen about 6 times in over 150 hours of playing it.I liked Adewale for a change and the blunderbuss and machetes were great. Aveline is better than them both though she seems to have learned skills from everyone she has so many animations she's at least level with Connor for combat and weapon choice if not better its like the devs have thought seeing as she's the first female assassin we'll make her a killing machine she's ace :)

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 05:24 PM
I would say Edward is better for combat I love the spinning sword attack his double counter kills are amazing as well although I've only seen double counters happen about 6 times in over 150 hours of playing it.I liked Adewale for a change and the blunderbuss and machetes were great. Aveline is better than them both though she seems to have learned skills from everyone she has so many animations she's at least level with Connor for combat and weapon choice if not better its like the devs have thought seeing as she's the first female assassin we'll make her a killing machine she's ace :)

Edward would lop her head off with ease, or just shoot her.

StocktonBrawler
01-28-2014, 10:06 PM
I liked Ade's style as a change of pace. That said, Edward has him beat by miles in grace,economy of movement and skill.

BTW, Altair and Ezio are both laughing in the afterlife at the ineptitude of modern day assassins fighting styles.;)

Ezio was a god amongst men, I find it hilarious that anyone could even insinuate that he's not the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCTtIIW1WA0

Hans684
01-28-2014, 10:21 PM
Ezio was a god amongst men, I find it hilarious that anyone could even insinuate that he's not the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCTtIIW1WA0

It's Ezio and Alta´r's fult that he wasn't able to take out the army, Alta´r showed up and instead of thinking about the army Ezio had to look at Alta´r. The trailer showes Ezio is easy to distract even in combat.

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 10:33 PM
It's Ezio and Alta´r's fult that he wasn't able to take out the army, Alta´r showed up and instead of thinking about the army Ezio had to look at Alta´r. The trailer showes Ezio is easy to distract even in combat.

Well to be fair, he literally saw a ghost...

Hans684
01-28-2014, 10:59 PM
Well to be fair, he literally saw a ghost...

I highly doubt it's the first time, only becouse in AC2 during the bonfire DLC you could go to the Auditore House. When there activate EV and you see the ghosts of his father and brothers.

LoyalACFan
01-28-2014, 11:02 PM
I highly doubt it's the first time, only becouse in AC2 during the bonfire DLC you could go to the Auditore House. When there activate EV and you see the ghosts of his father and brothers.

That was an Easter egg. That's like saying he saw a Kraken in the Assassin tomb in Venice, or that Connor had a pet Assassin Turkey.

EaglePrince25
01-28-2014, 11:09 PM
I highly doubt it's the first time, only becouse in AC2 during the bonfire DLC you could go to the Auditore House. When there activate EV and you see the ghosts of his father and brothers.

That's hardly the same thing. One concerns him visiting his old home, activating Eagle Vision, and seeing ghosts. Even if he was surprised, it wasn't in a critical situation. One see's him in the middle of combat and a random Assassin-like figure appears out of nowhere, and is visibly glowing to draw attention. Anyone would've bee distracted by that.

LoyalACFan
01-29-2014, 12:09 AM
That's hardly the same thing. One concerns him visiting his old home, activating Eagle Vision, and seeing ghosts. Even if he was surprised, it wasn't in a critical situation. One see's him in the middle of combat and a random Assassin-like figure appears out of nowhere, and is visibly glowing to draw attention. Anyone would've bee distracted by that.

I'm still not totally sure what the canonical reason for him seeing Altair was. Eagle sense I guess, but then why didn't he see random dead people walking around wherever he went?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrPBf16KfThXhy--bhGk8leN3W7ZLj8ZwSZZztivaIHV-IbLHG

Anyway, in terms of pure combat prowess, methinks Ezio>Haytham>Connor>Adewale>Edward>Altair. For those outraged by Altair being at the bottom; I never envisioned him as much of a fighter, using it only as a last resort. To me, getting detected in AC1 = failure, so any combat therein is essentially non-canon to me.

SixKeys
01-29-2014, 12:21 AM
I've never actually thought about the Alta´r ghost scene. I always assumed it was some kind of Bleeding Effect, but that doesn't make sense since they're not related, and Ezio hadn't used the discs yet. Maybe a side effect of using the Apple too many times?

LoyalACFan
01-29-2014, 12:46 AM
I've never actually thought about the Alta´r ghost scene. I always assumed it was some kind of Bleeding Effect, but that doesn't make sense since they're not related, and Ezio hadn't used the discs yet. Maybe a side effect of using the Apple too many times?

He'd never used Altair's Apple either :p The one he used had never come into contact with Altair, so it shouldn't have created images of Altair. I guess I'll just mentally justify it by saying he read Niccolo's journal, which described Altair and Masyaf in such great detail that him finally seeing the place triggered a bastardized combination of Eagle Sense and the bleeding effect.

Or maybe it was just ACR and made no sense.

Megas_Doux
01-29-2014, 12:55 AM
Ezio was a god amongst men, I find it hilarious that anyone could even insinuate that he's not the best.


Altair, Ezio, Connor , Edward, even Adewale and Aveline as well, because of how easy the combat is, have been shown as one man armies. However, seeing it objectively, I would say that Connor is probably the best fighter out of them.

And I agree with the people above me, Ezio chasing Altair "ghost" does not have any "logic" explanation.

LoyalACFan
01-29-2014, 02:30 AM
And I agree with the people above me, Ezio chasing Altair "ghost" does not have any "logic" explanation.

I mean, I could understand it if he was using Eagle Sense (since he could follow people's trails with it in ACR) but the ghost just kinda popped up out of nowhere.

Shahkulu101
01-29-2014, 02:42 AM
Acid. Ezio was on acid.

Fatal-Feit
01-29-2014, 03:34 AM
Whatever the case is, you guys have to admit it was still pretty kickass having Altair in that cinematic.

Megas_Doux
01-29-2014, 03:35 AM
Whatever the case is, you guys have to admit it was still pretty kickass having Altair in that cinematic.

OH yes!

My favorite AC trailer to date.....

StocktonBrawler
01-29-2014, 05:06 AM
Anyway, in terms of pure combat prowess, methinks Ezio>Haytham>Connor>Adewale>Edward>Altair. For those outraged by Altair being at the bottom; I never envisioned him as much of a fighter, using it only as a last resort. To me, getting detected in AC1 = failure, so any combat therein is essentially non-canon to me.

Care to address any one of the points I made earlier, it's really nuts that you're putting Adewale ahead of Altair...who routinely fought Crusaders, some of the greatest swordsmen to have ever lived.

LoyalACFan
01-29-2014, 05:50 AM
Care to address any one of the points I made earlier, it's really nuts that you're putting Adewale ahead of Altair...who routinely fought Crusaders, some of the greatest swordsmen to have ever lived.

You only fought them if you failed to kill them stealthily :rolleyes: I stand by my statement that Altair was not that good of a fighter, since the Assassins relied almost entirely on stealth in his time.

But I must have missed your earlier post, I'll reply to it now.


Even if he is, how does his sheer force account for his lack of training? The guy isn't half the swordsman, or fighter that Edward is.

Lack of training...? He was trained as an Assassin for thirteen years. He had way more training than Edward had as of AC4. He doesn't pull off elegant moves, true, but not because he's inept; it's because he fights with a bloody machete. Of course the style's going to be more direct and forceful, and not bother with the fencing moves Edward uses with his little cutlasses and rapiers.


Oh come on, are you really trying to use this to validate Adewale as some supreme Assassin? Please, he killed an aristocrat and his bodyguards which in the grand scheme of things really pales in comparison to Edward's body of work.

Well, in your post, you validated Edward as a supreme Assassin by reminding me that he killed Roberts' men in Principe. Oooh, what a badass, he killed a bunch of random pirates. Not really much different than the Governeur's plantation full of bodyguards in my eyes.


Oh come on, really? I'll use your argument against you. He had to fight through a jungle full of Julien De Casse's crewmen, only to air assassinate him. He had to fight off god knows how many of Bart Robert's crewmen on Principe before boarding his ship, killing more of his crewmen only to hang him with a rope dart. Josiah Burgess and John Cockram were both incredibly respected privateers - and btw I double countered them (which gave me 100% sync)

You're specifically told not to enter combat in the Du Casse mission, so... no. To hang Roberts you have to be on one of the crosstrees, and there's nobody to fight up there. You just take the lift up on the Jackdaw and jump over to the Royal Fortune.


And Don't get me started on El Tiburon, lets be honest if Adewale were to fight him - El Tiburon would hack him to bits. Like You said, Adewale is sheer force. Good luck trying to bum rush a beast like El Tiburon. And in regards to him "just shooting him to death", that's ridiculous. He killed him, and last I checked guns>swords. I'm sure you would credit Adewale for killing the body guards with his blunderbuss - why not credit Edward?

Uh... Edward would have (and did) kill him with a pistol shot, Adewale would have killed him with the blunderbuss. Not much skill involved in either approach TBH. We know for a fact that Edward couldn't best El Tiburon in melee combat, so why are you even arguing this? Even if Ade couldn't beat El Tiburon, that doesn't mean he's worse than Edward, because Edward couldn't do it either.


And even if Duncan Walpole was injured, even if he was at his worst. He's still 100x better than anyone Adewale has fought

Why? Why would a critically injured, middle-aged Assassin be better than ANYONE Ade ever faced? We know he killed a fully capable Templar captain in mano a mano combat in the very first Freedom Cry mission... Would Duncan Walpole have been able to pull that off when he's crippled, limping, and about to pass out from blood loss?



Um yeah it does

Um no it doesn't. Stealth isn't even remotely related to combat skill. Charles Lee was able to get the drop on Connor in prison and choke him out. Would Lee have been able to take him face to face? Lol doubt it.



Come on, really? Are you actually insinuating that a 42 year old father of two has the same athleticism, vigor and combat ability as the 20 something year old captain who laid waste to pirates, captains, Templars and assassins alike?

Being a father of two is meaningless (see; Giovanni Borgia) and Adewale was 45 by the end of Freedom Cry yet still demolishing pirates, Templars, slavers, soldiers...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling either Altair or Edward wusses. They just don't stack up against the other protagonists. Can't speak for Aveline since I haven't played ACL, but from what I've seen (on YouTube and in the Aveline DLC) she fights almost exactly like Connor, so she's excluded from competition.

StocktonBrawler
01-29-2014, 06:24 AM
Lack of training...? He was trained as an Assassin for thirteen years. He had way more training than Edward had as of AC4. He doesn't pull off elegant moves, true, but not because he's inept; it's because he fights with a bloody machete. Of course the style's going to be more direct and forceful, and not bother with the fencing moves Edward uses with his little cutlasses and rapiers.

His "training"??? his "training"??? Adewale was a half way decent pirate and an ok assassin. Even if he spent all of those 13 years just training, which he didn't, that still doesn't mean that he's a better fighter than Kenway. Look at his footwork, his counters, his parries, his head movement. It's all indicative of a rank amateur. The so called "fencing moves" that Edward pulls off with his "little cutlasses" are nothing short of brilliant, watch the videos I posted. Almost all of Adewale's kills are just hack and slash executions. It's crude, and slow and that's being nice.


Well, in your post, you validated Edward as a supreme Assassin by reminding me that he killed Roberts' men in Principe. Oooh, what a badass, he killed a bunch of random pirates. Not really much different than the Governeur's plantation full of bodyguards in my eyes.

This is just ignorant. A "bunch of random pirates" is an odd way to describe them. Bart Roberts was considered to be the greatest pirate of the golden age, this was largely due to the crew and men he had alongside him. These men cut their teeth as privateers in the West Indies fighting the Spanish Armada (the single greatest navy the world has ever seen), later they would fight both Spanish and English. Explain to me exactly how a privateer turned pirate who had spent the better portion of his life fighting (against two world superpowers) is the equivalent to some young, untested, green BODYGUARD. There's no comparison, and that's fact.


Why? Why would a critically injured, middle-aged Assassin be better than ANYONE Ade ever faced? We know he killed a fully capable Templar captain in mano a mano combat in the very first Freedom Cry mission... Would Duncan Walpole have been able to pull that off when he's crippled, limping, and about to pass out from blood loss?

So. Saw you ignored the quip about Edward fighting and killing renowned pirates, Templars and assassins alike but you managed to focus on this one in particular. Ok, I'll bite. As I stated before, from what we have seen Adewale has yet to even fight someone of Walpole's level...and no, a random Templar captain is not a rough equivalent.


You're specifically told not to enter combat in the Du Casse mission, so... no. To hang Roberts you have to be on one of the crosstrees, and there's nobody to fight up there. You just take the lift up on the Jackdaw and jump over to the Royal Fortune.
No, you are. They don't want you to enter combat in the jungle in Inagua, once you get to the port you can fight.

That's one way to do it, you can also board the ship, fight and kill his crewmen, climb to the top then hang him with it.


Being a father of two is meaningless (see; Giovanni Borgia) and Adewale was 45 by the end of Freedom Cry yet still demolishing pirates, Templars, slavers, soldiers...

This is ridiculous, being a father and aging most certainly takes a drastic toll on your body, and well being. And what is true for one person is most certainly not true for another. And come on, way to talk up Adewale's accomplishments or rather lack there of. He was fighting bodyguards and horribly trained slavers. Oh, in case you forgot, let me remind you that it was Edward that killed or as you say 'demolished' those Templars, pirates, and soldiers (sailors actually).

Really odd that you would talk up his background, while trying to take away from Edward's. A blind man could see who's resume is superior.

StocktonBrawler
01-29-2014, 06:38 AM
In the event your forgot...

Adewale
Random templar captain
De Fayet

Edward Kenway
Duncan Walpole
Julien De Casse
Woodes Rogers
Bart Roberts
John Cockram
Josiah Burgess
El Tiburon
Torres
Don't forget the Templars either
Lucia Marquez
Flint
Kenneth Abraham
Vance Travers and Jing Lang

But surely I must be mistaken, as you said, "Adewale was 45 by the end of Freedom Cry yet still demolishing pirates, Templars, slavers, soldiers..". But that's kind of odd, because I don't see anyone worth mentioning to put on Ade's resume. Hmmm, odd.

dbzk1999
01-29-2014, 07:10 AM
In the event your forgot...

Adewale
Random templar captain
De Fayet

Edward Kenway
Duncan Walpole
Julien De Casse
Woodes Rogers
Bart Roberts
John Cockram
Josiah Burgess
El Tiburon
Torres
Don't forget the Templars either
Lucia Marquez
Flint
Kenneth Abraham
Vance Travers and Jing Lang

But surely I must be mistaken, as you said, "Adewale was 45 by the end of Freedom Cry yet still demolishing pirates, Templars, slavers, soldiers..". But that's kind of odd, because I don't see anyone worth mentioning to put on Ade's resume. Hmmm, odd.
What's ur problem with ade u act as if he was sitting on his laurels for the past THIRTEEN years
Yes it's odd what do u expect we only played as ade for a DLC
We played as EDward for a full game
So nah nah thts really odd

LoyalACFan
01-29-2014, 07:24 AM
Dude... You're getting WAYYYY too worked up over this. Take a step back and reevaluate the hostility, mmkay?


So. Saw you ignored the quip about Edward fighting and killing renowned pirates, Templars and assassins

I didn't ignore it, you just keep insisting that the random goons Edward killed are for some reason superior to the ones Adewale kills, so I'm not really even sure how to argue that. They both kill pirates/sailors/soldiers with equal ease when taking ships, so... what makes Edward better at it?

As for that list of Edward's main assassination targets you keep throwing in my face, I'll say yet again... ONLY the critically injured Walpole was killed in combat. MAYBE Burgess and Cockram were, but you basically have to force a double counter by sitting there deflecting individual attacks until they both attack at once, so I wouldn't necessarily count them either since it's an entirely impractical way of finishing the mission, almost an exploit. ALL of the other targets you brought up were either unaware of your presence, running away from you trying to escape, or killed with projectiles (bullets or rope darts).


This is just ignorant. A "bunch of random pirates" is an odd way to describe them. Bart Roberts was considered to be the greatest pirate of the golden age, this was largely due to the crew and men he had alongside him. These men cut their teeth as privateers in the West Indies fighting the Spanish Armada (the single greatest navy the world has ever seen), later they would fight both Spanish and English. Explain to me exactly how a privateer turned pirate who had spent the better portion of his life fighting (against two world superpowers) is the equivalent to some young, untested, green BODYGUARD. There's no comparison, and that's fact.

According to the lore, Roberts was so successful because he had a Crystal Skull and a man o' war, not because he or his crew were great fighters. Bart Roberts' crew was no tougher than that of any random Brit or Spanish vessel that had seen combat, and, recall, both Edward and Ade were more than adept at cutting those guys down.


No, you are. They don't want you to enter combat in the jungle in Inagua, once you get to the port you can fight.

So you're saying what canonically happened was that Edward was detected and the guards raised the alarm in the port, but Du Casse was happy to let Edward climb the mast and pounce on him? :p I know you can do it that way, but only because AC enemy AI is buggered beyond belief. Guards can see you kill dozens of their compatriots and climb into the rigging with nowhere to escape to, but as long as they can't see you, they'll just go on their merry way. That's not a point to Kenway's credit.


That's one way to do it, you can also board the ship, fight and kill his crewmen, climb to the top then hang him with it.

As I said, they were no tougher than any other pirate crew that Edward or Ade slaughtered.


This is ridiculous, being a father and aging most certainly takes a drastic toll on your body, and well being. And what is true for one person is most certainly not true for another. And come on, way to talk up Adewale's accomplishments or rather lack there of. He was fighting bodyguards and horribly trained slavers. Oh, in case you forgot, let me remind you that it was Edward that killed or as you say 'demolished' those Templars, pirates, and soldiers (sailors actually).

Being a father takes a toll on your body... how? You have sex one time. Motherhood takes a toll, but that's a different story. If you're saying raising a child is stressful and takes an emotional toll, you're right, but not as much as being an Assassin climbing around and fighting would. I think the toll taken by his Assassin career (running, climbing, and murdering people) would have superseded any toll taken by playing catch with Haytham. Aging takes a toll too, but like I said, Ade was even older...


His "training"??? his "training"??? Adewale was a half way decent pirate and an ok assassin. Even if he spent all of those 13 years just training, which he didn't, that still doesn't mean that he's a better fighter than Kenway.

Why wouldn't it mean that? He was an Assassin for just as long as Edward was, maybe longer if Edward took some time off before formally joining them as he said he would.


Look at his footwork, his counters, his parries, his head movement. It's all indicative of a rank amateur. The so called "fencing moves" that Edward pulls off with his "little cutlasses" are nothing short of brilliant, watch the videos I posted. Almost all of Adewale's kills are just hack and slash executions. It's crude, and slow and that's being nice.

... you're really reaching here, dude. His head movement? Footwork? Please. Almost all of their animations except machete/sword counter kills are shared. Adewale does not have inferior "combat head movement" to Edward, that's BS.

Black_Widow9
01-29-2014, 09:15 AM
Please take a moment to calm down a bit before posting again.
Thanks

EaglePrince25
01-29-2014, 02:26 PM
I'm still not totally sure what the canonical reason for him seeing Altair was. Eagle sense I guess, but then why didn't he see random dead people walking around wherever he went?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrPBf16KfThXhy--bhGk8leN3W7ZLj8ZwSZZztivaIHV-IbLHG

Anyway, in terms of pure combat prowess, methinks Ezio>Haytham>Connor>Adewale>Edward>Altair. For those outraged by Altair being at the bottom; I never envisioned him as much of a fighter, using it only as a last resort. To me, getting detected in AC1 = failure, so any combat therein is essentially non-canon to me.

Yeah it didn't make any sense. I thought it would be explained in game, but it never was. It's not like Ezio's like Desmond, who's mind is broken, and he's not suffering from any kind of bleeding effect. Doesn't add up. I could understand if he'd been holding Altair's Apple at the time, but he wasn't.

For combat prowess I have to rank them as Ezio>Connor>Edward>Haytham>Altair>Adewale

Though I normally don't count Haytham at all. Edward only loses out to Connor for me, because Connor had one of the most fluid fighting styles out of any person we've ever played as; nigh unstoppable. Edward felt a little awkward at times.



Whatever the case is, you guys have to admit it was still pretty kickass having Altair in that cinematic.

Oh absolutely, best intro for any AC game easily.

Gibbo2g_83
01-29-2014, 03:18 PM
Its quite hard to decide what order to put the Assassins in, Ezio is my fav character by far but I think the new combat system/controls introduced in AC3 is far better than the combat in AC1-ACR so from a strictly game play point of view and how much I enjoy the combat I would rank them Connor>Aveline>Edward>Ezio>Adewale>Altair I just wish Ezio could have had 1 game with the new system. Ezio does have my favourite animation though the one where he shoves his sword through the enemies head and then spins it round and pulls it out when it comes back :)

SixKeys
01-29-2014, 03:44 PM
Yeah it didn't make any sense. I thought it would be explained in game, but it never was. It's not like Ezio's like Desmond, who's mind is broken, and he's not suffering from any kind of bleeding effect. Doesn't add up. I could understand if he'd been holding Altair's Apple at the time, but he wasn't.


Anybody wanna hit up Darby on Twitter to get some clarification on this? :p

killzab
01-29-2014, 07:23 PM
Anybody wanna hit up Darby on Twitter to get some clarification on this? :p

No, not Darby again...

ShoryukenMan
01-29-2014, 08:07 PM
Didn't Altair have to fight a bunch of Templars on his way to kill Robert de sable? No stealth? It's been a while since I replayed AC1.

EaglePrince25
01-29-2014, 08:15 PM
Didn't Altair have to fight a bunch of Templars on his way to kill Robert de sable? No stealth? It's been a while since I replayed AC1.

It's been a while for me as well. Last time I played it was....I wanna say right before Revelations came out. From what I remember though, Altair's assassinations of the 9 relied on more stealth than those of later ancestors. You are right though, at the end he did have to fight his way through a bunch of knights to make it to Robert, and then engaged in a one on one duel.

TheArcaneEagle
01-29-2014, 08:36 PM
I haven't played Freedom Cry, nor do I intend to, but I think that Edward would probably be the better fighter. I would imagine Adewale being a bit of a brute, but since he practically has the same animations as Edward, its hard to compare.

dbzk1999
01-29-2014, 09:06 PM
I haven't played Freedom Cry, nor do I intend to, but I think that Edward would probably be the better fighter. I would imagine Adewale being a bit of a brute, but since he practically has the same animations as Edward, its hard to compare.

Yeah same hidden blade animations just look at some of his machete kills then say it's the same

Sabuto78
01-30-2014, 04:25 AM
lol...... Adewale is better than Edward.....? the hell? Lmfao. Edward wins hands down way more athletic his dual swords would be too much for adi...

How is this even a debate....

SMFH.

Ezio still better than them both tho. Brotherhood Ezio that is.

dbzk1999
01-30-2014, 04:28 AM
lol...... Adewale is better than Edward.....? the hell? Lmfao. Edward wins hands down way more athletic his dual swords would be too much for adi...

How is this even a debate....

SMFH.

Ezio still better than them both tho. Brotherhood Ezio that is.

It's a debate because it doesn't matter if Edward has dual swords he can still be beaten

Shahkulu101
01-30-2014, 04:40 AM
CONFIRMED: Video game characters Edward and Adewale are in fact not real. Sources confirm that debates about who is the best fighter are pointless, as it is a video game.

dbzk1999
01-30-2014, 04:53 AM
Man people can debate over whatever they wanted

Fatal-Feit
01-30-2014, 05:49 AM
Neither can deflect a brute's attack. So clearly, Aveline wins. :rolleyes:

SMFH...

LMAO...

Debates... How silly...

Because some characters haven't already received enough acclaims.

Reapr56
02-25-2014, 04:21 AM
Okay guys, i was just reading this thread but had to make an account to say something .
AGE is not the factor to consider .According to the assassins creed wiki , altair was still kicking at his nineties or something , thanks to his retraining, but edward had RETIRED, so he stopped jumping off rooftops and started washing diappers . So that WAS his training. IT IS NO WONDER TWO GUYS KILLED him OUT OF NO WHERE , MIGHT I ADD . and the game is for us to play and decide who to kill but in their real life , most assasins probably JUST killed their targets

Assassin_M
02-25-2014, 04:23 AM
They both got murdered, they both suck...

I hate these stupid threads...

Mr_Shade
02-25-2014, 12:34 PM
I hate these stupid threads...


So, ignore them and don't post ;)

The more people post saying 'I hate this' - the more a thread keeps on the first page ;)

Fatal-Feit
02-25-2014, 02:45 PM
They both got murdered, they both suck...

I hate these stupid threads...

true true and ezio and altair died too so connor is da best. for all we know he could still be alive kicking templars ***

Jexx21
08-10-2014, 01:15 AM
Obviously killed others

The large majority of Edwards fighting life consisted of fighting not only the Spanish and English but assassins and Templars as well.

Actually, most of Edwards life was not spent fighting Spanish and English and rarely did he fight Assassins.

Pretty sure Edward only got into the army in around 1712, and then soon became a pirate, and then he practically retired 10 years later. I wouldn't call that a majority of his life.

Man Anarkia
01-18-2016, 03:30 AM
i'd say adewale is a much better fighter. adewales fighting i love they need a assassin's creed game based in africa that is about slavery with adewae as the main assassin.

Rioz22222
01-18-2016, 10:21 PM
oh please ! of course edward is stronger ! adewale was edward's slave :D and I crushed him like bug in AC rouge ( sad ending tho )