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View Full Version : The overall story of Assassins Vs Templars is a barrier for new gamers to enter.



ConanTheLeader
01-20-2014, 02:23 PM
Out of my friends, only myself and one other have played all the full installments. All my other friends often enjoy watching me play Assassin's Creed but when I say "You should buy a copy." they reply with "I played the first and liked it, but haven't played the next games, therefore I do not understand what is going on."

Every Assassin's Creed game could be a new enemy for the order in a new location and time period, trying to link everything through one conflict just causes confusion for new players who have not played the six main installments (That is, full release titles and not the hand helds.).

funnyman44
01-20-2014, 03:19 PM
I really hate it when people complain about this. All it takes is five minutes on wikipedia or something. That's how I got the whole of AC1 and pretty much the entire AC story, and I had only played AC:4.

@OP: Tell them that
@Ubisoft: continue what you're doing

STDlyMcStudpants
01-20-2014, 04:56 PM
Also YouTube exists if they want to watch desmonds cutsenes...

Bastiaen
01-20-2014, 04:58 PM
Yes, it can be a barrier, but that's not a good reason for Ubisoft to dilute their games' stories. We don't ask novelists to dilute the stories of newest entries in their series so that they can be more successful. If you want to understand the story, you read the earlier books.

If people don't understand what's going on, that should be an incentive to play the earlier games, especially since they are so much cheaper now.

itsamea-mario
01-20-2014, 05:02 PM
Say a person read the first book of a series, then didn't read the next 3, then got the 5th book and complained because he didn't know what was happening. Do you know what i'd call that person? I'd call them an idiot.

Games are surprisingly accommodating for newcomer, some might say too accommodating.

Assassin_M
01-20-2014, 05:04 PM
F new gamers that want to enter

Fatal-Feit
01-20-2014, 06:34 PM
AC:IV couldn't be anymore newb friendly. Tell your friends to start from there.

TexasToast712
01-20-2014, 07:13 PM
If you want to get invested in a series then you should jump off where the series began. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you like a series, you owe it to yourself to start it where it all began. I hate this new "We want to make it easy for newcomers to understand" mentality game developers are having these days. If you dont understand it, get informed.

SenseHomunculus
01-20-2014, 07:31 PM
If you want to get invested in a series then you should jump off where the series began. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you like a series, you owe it to yourself to start it where it all began. I hate this new "We want to make it easy for newcomers to understand" mentality game developers are having these days. If you dont understand it, get informed.

I disagree. My first AC game was AC3 and had to do only a little bit of googling/research to figure out what I needed to know of the backstory to make sense of where I was in the AC story continuum. I then played the 3 AC2 games, then AC4 and lastly just finished the original AC (I'll call AC1). Quite frankly, AC1 suffers in comparison to the others, mostly from a gameplay mechanics standpoint. I found it REALLY tedious and if I had started there, I may not have gone any further. I only played it so I could actually play through the Desmond origin story.

funnyman44
01-20-2014, 07:47 PM
I disagree. My first AC game was AC3 and had to do only a little bit of googling/research to figure out what I needed to know of the backstory to make sense of where I was in the AC story continuum.

Which took you all of 20 minutes.

TexasToast712
01-20-2014, 07:50 PM
I disagree. My first AC game was AC3 and had to do only a little bit of googling/research to figure out what I needed to know of the backstory to make sense of where I was in the AC story continuum. I then played the 3 AC2 games, then AC4 and lastly just finished the original AC (I'll call AC1). Quite frankly, AC1 suffers in comparison to the others, mostly from a gameplay mechanics standpoint. I found it REALLY tedious and if I had started there, I may not have gone any further. I only played it so I could actually play through the Desmond origin story.
At least you didnt come here whining. You took the intiative to get yourself informed on the series instead of wanting the story dumbed down for newcomers.

killzab
01-20-2014, 09:03 PM
If you want to get invested in a series then you should jump off where the series began. No ifs ands or buts about it. If you like a series, you owe it to yourself to start it where it all began. I hate this new "We want to make it easy for newcomers to understand" mentality game developers are having these days. If you dont understand it, get informed.

Me too, I hate Ubi for it, especially Derby.

They gave long time fans who speculated and invested time and thoughts into the series the middle finger.

Consus_E
01-20-2014, 10:01 PM
Every Assassin's Creed game could be a new enemy for the order in a new location and time period.

I think this is how it should have been from the beginning...

Otherwise if you're having trouble following the story:
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin's_Creed_Wiki
or:
https://www.google.com/
or if you don't like reading:
http://www.youtube.com/

JunYah7
01-20-2014, 11:26 PM
I haven't played any of the AC games except for the ACL demo, which I love. Despite that I want to get AC 4. For people who complain about not knowing whats going on, that is not an excuse. Especially since there are walkthroughs for almost every game conceivable nowadays. Then there is wikipedia. Also, by now the older games are significantly cheaper so you can get those as well.

misterB2001
01-21-2014, 12:02 AM
Me too, I hate Ubi for it, especially Derby.



*yawn*

SenseHomunculus
01-21-2014, 02:54 AM
Which took you all of 20 minutes.

Give or take, yeah. I probably read more than was necessary, I enjoyed researching it, actually.

Paulno1990
01-21-2014, 05:50 AM
Actually I don't think there is much of a barrier at all.

The Templars are the bad guys who want to control the world.
The Assassins are the good guys who want to stop the Templars and maintain peace and freedom.

Both sides are locked into a ancient battle to decide the fate of the world. Each game covers off a different period of that conflict, featuring different characters, with different objectives in each game.

You only need to play each game for a few hours to understand all of this..... It is VERY obvious.

HiddenKiller612
01-21-2014, 05:59 AM
Barrier lol? The only person stopping them from being informed on the story is themselves. It's all out there on the internet, as well as... you know, in the games.

phoenix-force411
01-21-2014, 06:11 AM
They got tired of retelling the story of AC. The retelling of AC has been in all of the ACs until ACIV. Just tell them to play previous games to understand. Seriously, you're coming in at like the sixth or seventh game, you're bound to be lost. Common knowledge is to look it up, duh!

shobhit7777777
01-21-2014, 06:13 AM
The ****ing title says it all - "Assassins vs Templars"
Aliens vs Predator....done...That's your plot there.

Besides theyve started afresh with 4

Landruner
01-21-2014, 07:15 AM
Out of my friends, only myself and one other have played all the full installments. All my other friends often enjoy watching me play Assassin's Creed but when I say "You should buy a copy." they reply with "I played the first and liked it, but haven't played the next games, therefore I do not understand what is going on."

Every Assassin's Creed game could be a new enemy for the order in a new location and time period, trying to link everything through one conflict just causes confusion for new players who have not played the six main installments (That is, full release titles and not the hand helds.).

Actually, that is a good question - I would say, I do not think that it could be a barrier with the recent entries of the series as much as it could have been with the post entries for the following reason:

After AC3, Ubisoft dropped the ball with the all modern day concept and simply killed story arc and ruined the Assassin order versus Templar fight so bad that if you analyses mathematically and logically the all outcome, it does not make any sense now, and AC4 did not help in this matter neither in order to motivate player in the comprehension logic of that fight.

So, anyone that takes the the story post AC3 won't be too much affected or lost in that story arc and don't really care about the fight between assassins and Templars, i am sure.
In fact, a bit like the modern days, the fight between Assassin and Templar belongs to the AC lore and its trademark. So, it is there because it had to be there, but i do not think that it could be a barrier.

The fact that the assassins could have some other enemies besides the Templars could have been interesting, but like i wrote above the fight between the two orders is am AC trademark that had been there for too many games for introducing some new enemies for the Assassins, and i am not sure that the reception would be positive if the Templar are not there for a game or if they have to share their role of antagonist for a game. (?)

PS: I know that some will disagree with what i wrote about the fight between assassin and Templar, I understand and respect it - I just happen of not seeing the point especially after playing AC4 of being an assassin killing some Templars or being controlled by Juno because.... and then hacking computers for finding clues about the location of the next AC5.

Fatal-Feit
01-21-2014, 11:10 AM
The Templars are the antagonists who want to control the world in order to establish world peace.
The Assassins are the protagonist who want to stop the Templars to maintain freedom and stability.

Fixed, brother.

The whole good guy, bad guy, black and white ended with Revelations.

dxsxhxcx
01-21-2014, 11:10 AM
it would be nice to interact with different Orders/cults in some side missions, Ezio had an encounter with the Hermeticists in a DLC for ACB, but a new enemy to replace the Templars, no thanks...

about the other concerns raised in the thread, I believe Landruner and some others already raised valid points on the subject, IMO Ubisoft pretty much screwed up with the continuation of the story to cater to the newcomers so what the OP suggested (unfortunately) is already happening...


Fixed, brother.

The whole good guy, bad guy, black and white ended with Revelations.

for me the Templars will always be the bad guys no matter how bad they portray the Assassins in a game simply because I don't think achieve peace through control is right...

pacmanate
01-21-2014, 11:42 AM
F new gamers that want to enter

This

SixKeys
01-21-2014, 01:42 PM
for me the Templars will always be the bad guys no matter how bad they portray the Assassins in a game simply because I don't think achieve peace through control is right...

The conflict between the two ideologies is interesting and provides food for thought. Where Ubisoft messed up was basically making every bad person in history a Templar. When you've gone and told your players that the Templars supported Hitler, you've pretty much lost any chance of showing the Templars as reasonable and enlightened.

killzab
01-21-2014, 01:44 PM
F new gamers that want to enter

This

HiddenKiller612
01-21-2014, 01:47 PM
The conflict between the two ideologies is interesting and provides food for thought. Where Ubisoft messed up was basically making every bad person in history a Templar. When you've gone and told your players that the Templars supported Hitler, you've pretty much lost any chance of showing the Templars as reasonable and enlightened.
That version of the templars... Since they've been around for quite some time... not every factions ideology will be exactly the same. Same thing with Assassin's... we already had a corrupt Master Assassin in AC1... we could find a group of Templars that were more inline with the ideals of the Assassin's.

SixKeys
01-21-2014, 01:57 PM
That version of the templars... Since they've been around for quite some time... not every factions ideology will be exactly the same. Same thing with Assassin's... we already had a corrupt Master Assassin in AC1... we could find a group of Templars that were more inline with the ideals of the Assassin's.

People often go on about "oh, the black & white Templars were only in AC2/ACB!". Supporting Hitler is a much more recent example of modern day Templars. The ACB glyphs also reveal a lot of Templar-fueled corruption during the Cold War and Iraq war. The whole peace-through-order thing starts to feel a little suspicious when all they ever seem to do is support wars. I would love to see another morally grey approach through a protagonist like Haytham or the disillusioned former assassin (Vali cel Tradat) in ACR, but I think the chance for an equally balanced look at the two ideologies in the way AC1 provided has been lost because the Templars have too often been shown as the only ones willing to go to extremes.

HiddenKiller612
01-21-2014, 02:03 PM
People often go on about "oh, the black & white Templars were only in AC2/ACB!". Supporting Hitler is a much more recent example of modern day Templars. The ACB glyphs also reveal a lot of Templar-fueled corruption during the Cold War and Iraq war. The whole peace-through-order thing starts to feel a little suspicious when all they ever seem to do is support wars. I would love to see another morally grey approach through a protagonist like Haytham or the disillusioned former assassin (Vali cel Tradat) in ACR, but I think the chance for an equally balanced look at the two ideologies in the way AC1 provided has been lost because the Templars have too often been shown as the only ones willing to go to extremes.
True, as time passes it seems they've become even more corrupt in their beliefs... Perhaps there was a turning point, some time in history that influenced the order of modern day into what they've become now... I would really like to see a game where the villain was much more important than the struggle between the Templars and the Assassins. Though, Ubi has been setting them up to be the worst case scenario type of Order.... We shall see what the next game brings... I really liked Haytham... which is why the shock of him being a Templar was so grand, at least for me... it could have been a much better relationship that ended with a truce, instead of a blade.

cjdavies
01-21-2014, 10:49 PM
When I first learned about Assassins Creed it was Revelations in my magazine, sounded good, didn't read much as didn't spoilers on earlier series. Found out that AC1 was out on the 360, also heard it was repetitive and that AC2 was an improvement, so I went ahead and bought gt AC1, AC2 and Brotherhood - played them back to back (before Revelations was released) and loved the story. Assassins Creed to me is Assassins vs. Templars and if newbies can't be bothered to read or even play previous then **** them.