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View Full Version : How far can we actually go back?



DinoSteve1
01-16-2014, 03:03 AM
To any historians or history buffs, how far can we actually go back in time for Assassin's Creed before they have to make a first civ game?

RoBg03
01-16-2014, 03:07 AM
maybe sumeria/babylonia? maybe tie in the atlantis myth with the first civ

IWGCJoeCool
01-16-2014, 03:47 AM
i think it could be cool to go way back, to the very first ancient Templars, bringing about the need to organize the first Assassins. this could be 1st-Civ plus 100 years, and there could even be some remnants of the 1st-Civ architecture left.

TexasToast712
01-16-2014, 07:56 AM
As a history buff I hope we never have a game set during the First Civilization reign. Would ruin their mystique. I like finding out more about them by sifting through what they left behind.

ze_topazio
01-16-2014, 02:06 PM
10.000 years or so.

adventurewomen
01-16-2014, 02:18 PM
I would love a first civilization AC game, that would be awesome. :D

DinoSteve1
01-16-2014, 02:28 PM
Yous guys are missing what I was asking, how far back can we go, what was the earliest city? Egypt, early Mesopotamia or Persia?

RinoTheBouncer
01-16-2014, 03:17 PM
I guess we can go back as far as the Sumerians, Babylonians and Ancient Egypt but I wish we go to the First Civilization times, at least for one game.

LoyalACFan
01-16-2014, 04:05 PM
Well, it's a crap shoot really, since the First Civilization plotline disregards the fossil record and essentially asserts that humans lived for 50,000 years after the Toba disaster without significant evolutionary development before creating the first real human civilizations in the Fertile Crescent around 12,000-ish B.C. Which is a bit silly IMO, and one of the reasons I'm not hugely fond of the TWCB story.

Unless they did a game that completely and utterly diverged from the historical record by incorporating First Civ architecture/society, then like others have said, Ancient Mesopotamia is about as early as you can go. Although I don't know when the actual Assassin Brotherhood was formed in the AC-verse and as far as I'm aware the earliest record of a proper Assassin was Darius circa 500 B.C., so Mesopotamia might be too early. In any case, I wouldn't want to go that far back anyway, the buildings would be even smaller and less interesting than British colonial ones.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Altair technically is the earliest we SHOULD be able to go back PERIOD with Templars still involved
The Templars started and ended in the Crusades
The only reason it makes sense the see them in the renaissance and the new world is because history argues that they still lived on after disbandment and slaughter of many members including their headmaster via orders of King Phillip IV of France in the early 1300s (THIS IS THE GAME IM ITCHING TO SEE THE MOST!!!!) and went on to become the FreeMasons (Which means George Washington was actually a Templar :O)
If we do see anything before the crusades the antagonists shouldn't have the name Templar attached to them...how will devs deal with this? Time will only tell...
TBH I don't think we will see a pre crusade AC (excluding an origin story) besides the early formation of the templars (1129 AD) 36 years before the birth of Altair (Would also make a very great game)
I love discussions like this because they focus on the story instead of the setting...
I don't care if we visit the same place twice..I just want the story to make sense with history and fill in some blank spots.

IWGCJoeCool
01-17-2014, 03:12 AM
Well, it's a crap shoot really, since the First Civilization plotline disregards the fossil record and essentially asserts that humans lived for 50,000 years after the Toba disaster without significant evolutionary development before creating the first real human civilizations in the Fertile Crescent around 12,000-ish B.C. Which is a bit silly IMO, and one of the reasons I'm not hugely fond of the TWCB story.

Unless they did a game that completely and utterly diverged from the historical record by incorporating First Civ architecture/society, then like others have said, Ancient Mesopotamia is about as early as you can go. Although I don't know when the actual Assassin Brotherhood was formed in the AC-verse and as far as I'm aware the earliest record of a proper Assassin was Darius circa 500 B.C., so Mesopotamia might be too early. In any case, I wouldn't want to go that far back anyway, the buildings would be even smaller and less interesting than British colonial ones.

if the modern day can be a fiction, utilizing (as far as we know) impossible technologies, surely we can suspend disbelief for some kind of game segment talking place in/near 1st-Civ times.

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 03:17 AM
I hope they never go to TWCB times

IWGCJoeCool
01-17-2014, 03:18 AM
Altair technically is the earliest we SHOULD be able to go back PERIOD with Templars still involved
The Templars started and ended in the Crusades
The only reason it makes sense the see them in the renaissance and the new world is because history argues that they still lived on after disbandment and slaughter of many members including their headmaster via orders of King Phillip IV of France in the early 1300s (THIS IS THE GAME IM ITCHING TO SEE THE MOST!!!!) and went on to become the FreeMasons (Which means George Washington was actually a Templar :O)
If we do see anything before the crusades the antagonists shouldn't have the name Templar attached to them...how will devs deal with this? Time will only tell...
TBH I don't think we will see a pre crusade AC (excluding an origin story) besides the early formation of the templars (1129 AD) 36 years before the birth of Altair (Would also make a very great game)
I love discussions like this because they focus on the story instead of the setting...
I don't care if we visit the same place twice..I just want the story to make sense with history and fill in some blank spots.

maybe Templars is the name they took upon themselves in that time period, and it stuck. maybe earlier they would refer to themselves differently. in the modern day they dont go around saying, "hi, i'm a Templar from an ancient order."

even in meetings, i'll bet they only show the club rings and do the secret handshake anyway before the rituals. at this point, referring to themselves as Templars would be obsolete, and probably just say "brotherhood of understanding" or some such.

like this is a real thing lol

but, so often in the news any more, there will be some story, and i say, "those Templars are at it again!" lol

Megas_Doux
01-17-2014, 03:23 AM
Mesopotamia might be too early. In any case, I wouldn't want to go that far back anyway, the buildings would be even smaller and less interesting than British colonial ones.

May marduk, Tiamat and Pazuzu unleash all their wrath upon you....... :P


Small buildings?????


http://willdaniel.edublogs.org/files/2011/10/SumerCityUr-1ofrjwv.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/iam733_photos/BABYLONIA/ERIDU.jpg

http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/nineveh03.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tspj1TizUfc/Uh15GPx31II/AAAAAAAADvA/OjwROuFQ71Y/s1600/Ancient-Nineveh7.jpg

Besides, there is ALOT of first civilzation esque possibilites, the beginning of the "modern" organization of both orders etc etc etc. Sumer ,Assyria and Babylon could make a GREAT AC game.


And by the way, I would mind not SOME TWCB cities, because I have NOT forgotten the whole Eve plot, I am looking at you Ubisoft! But as bleeding effect or flashbacks, NEVER for an entire game.

IWGCJoeCool
01-17-2014, 03:53 AM
May marduk, Tiamat and Pazuzu unleash all their wrath upon you....... :P


Small buildings?????


http://willdaniel.edublogs.org/files/2011/10/SumerCityUr-1ofrjwv.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/iam733_photos/BABYLONIA/ERIDU.jpg

http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/nineveh03.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tspj1TizUfc/Uh15GPx31II/AAAAAAAADvA/OjwROuFQ71Y/s1600/Ancient-Nineveh7.jpg

Besides, there is ALOT of first civilzation esque possibilites, the beginning of the "modern" organization of both orders etc etc etc. Sumer ,Assyria and Babylon could make a GREAT AC game.


And by the way, I would mind not SOME TWCB cities, because I have forgotten the whole Eve plot, I am looking at you Ubisoft! But as bleeding effect or flashbacks, NEVER for an entire game.

i'll agree, cuz every time i watch some Discovery or History Chgannel thing about the ancient civilizations, it's always brought up that their construction often exceeded the tech and engineering of the day.

probably from stuff left over from 1st-Civ, until it was forgotten.

if anyone is curious, check out a recent thing about the pyramids of Egypt on YouTube...it's easy enough to find. sheds a whole new light on how they were built.

i know that nobody really wants this, but picture, just for a minute, a Leap Of Faith from the Eifel Tower

ze_topazio
01-17-2014, 04:36 AM
Altair technically is the earliest we SHOULD be able to go back PERIOD with Templars still involved
The Templars started and ended in the Crusades
The only reason it makes sense the see them in the renaissance and the new world is because history argues that they still lived on after disbandment and slaughter of many members including their headmaster via orders of King Phillip IV of France in the early 1300s (THIS IS THE GAME IM ITCHING TO SEE THE MOST!!!!) and went on to become the FreeMasons (Which means George Washington was actually a Templar :O)
If we do see anything before the crusades the antagonists shouldn't have the name Templar attached to them...how will devs deal with this? Time will only tell...
TBH I don't think we will see a pre crusade AC (excluding an origin story) besides the early formation of the templars (1129 AD) 36 years before the birth of Altair (Would also make a very great game)
I love discussions like this because they focus on the story instead of the setting...
I don't care if we visit the same place twice..I just want the story to make sense with history and fill in some blank spots.

The Templars started at the same the Assassins started, back in prehistory after the fall of TWCB, in the middle east during the crusades, the Templars and Assassins decided to go public for some reason, therefore that's why the Knights of the order of the Temple and the Ḥashshāshīn have become part of history, but as we know they already existed before that and kept existing after that.

LoyalACFan
01-17-2014, 03:14 PM
May marduk, Tiamat and Pazuzu unleash all their wrath upon you....... :P


Small buildings?????


http://willdaniel.edublogs.org/files/2011/10/SumerCityUr-1ofrjwv.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/iam733_photos/BABYLONIA/ERIDU.jpg

http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/nineveh03.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tspj1TizUfc/Uh15GPx31II/AAAAAAAADvA/OjwROuFQ71Y/s1600/Ancient-Nineveh7.jpg

Besides, there is ALOT of first civilzation esque possibilites, the beginning of the "modern" organization of both orders etc etc etc. Sumer ,Assyria and Babylon could make a GREAT AC game.


And by the way, I would mind not SOME TWCB cities, because I have NOT forgotten the whole Eve plot, I am looking at you Ubisoft! But as bleeding effect or flashbacks, NEVER for an entire game.

Oh, I thought we were talking WAYYYY back. Like the absolute first sedentary settlements in Mesopotamia, which wouldn't have been much more than small villages. They eventually got around to building enormous structures, but the thread title was asking how far back we could possibly go :p

DinoSteve1
01-17-2014, 03:25 PM
When I said how far back can we go, what I meant was, what was the earliest cities, obviously we would need a city for Assassin's Creed game to be set.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-17-2014, 05:46 PM
When I said how far back can we go, what I meant was, what was the earliest cities, obviously we would need a city for Assassin's Creed game to be set.
Why do we need a city? Sure it may make some people mad, but IMO the frontier was the most fun place to run around in any game I've ever played... It was the highlight of Assassin's Creed 3..... When I first saw AC3 announced I thought that this was all the game would have...forest and forts (I wasnt as obsessed as I am now..I had no idea boston or new york would be in the game) And I didn't for a sec get sad that we wouldnt see a city..I was too busy being excited about jumping from tree to tree and ambushing unsuspecting targets
Now I'm not saying I want to see this happen anytime soon...we just got AC3 and another wilderness based AC this early wouldn't be fun...But I wouldn't mind seeing an all woods AC with settlement camps kind of like skyrim..this is what i wanted AC3 to be...I wanted to be a native american living on the lands..I was sad to see that took backseat in AC3

BUT to answer your question. The first city in recorded history is Luxor Egypt 3,200 BC

con2008
01-17-2014, 06:01 PM
To any historians or history buffs, how far can we actually go back in time for Assassin's Creed before they have to make a first civ game?

Well i believe it was AC2 where they show the glyphs, and if you solve them all you get a video of what looks like Adam and Eve running with an apple. Also [ SPOILERS ] when Edward is walking in the Observatory with Roberts you see blood vials and Roberts said they "belonged to ancient people and that they were worthless at that time" and something like "might be worth something the future. but and the end when Torres is there the vials are gone so if those vials where found they could use the animus to view the first Civ.
- But this would be focusing more on Ubisofts' fiction of the First Civ not real History

That would depend on how much Ubisoft can learn about any selected time in history

DinoSteve1
01-17-2014, 06:24 PM
Why do we need a city? Sure it may make some people mad, but IMO the frontier was the most fun place to run around in any game I've ever played... It was the highlight of Assassin's Creed 3..... When I first saw AC3 announced I thought that this was all the game would have...forest and forts (I wasnt as obsessed as I am now..I had no idea boston or new york would be in the game) And I didn't for a sec get sad that we wouldnt see a city..I was too busy being excited about jumping from tree to tree and ambushing unsuspecting targets
Now I'm not saying I want to see this happen anytime soon...we just got AC3 and another wilderness based AC this early wouldn't be fun...But I wouldn't mind seeing an all woods AC with settlement camps kind of like skyrim..this is what i wanted AC3 to be...I wanted to be a native american living on the lands..I was sad to see that took backseat in AC3

BUT to answer your question. The first city in recorded history is Luxor Egypt 3,200 BC

I'm sorry I can't agree, I didn't find the frontier fun at all, I just thought of it as in the way of me getting to Boston or New York.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-17-2014, 07:20 PM
I'm sorry I can't agree, I didn't find the frontier fun at all, I just thought of it as in the way of me getting to Boston or New York.
Thats fine.. ACR is the only city I found to be fun...each to their own...
I will be minority because I don't live in a city..therefore I find nature to be more interesting than man made structure.
And I'm fine with that. ;D

DinoSteve1
01-17-2014, 07:50 PM
I don't live in a city either, I live in a small town surrounded by country side and forests. Well they use to be forests now its just empty housing estates.

TheHumanTowel
01-17-2014, 08:10 PM
When I said how far back can we go, what I meant was, what was the earliest cities, obviously we would need a city for Assassin's Creed game to be set.
You'd be surprised how many people on these forums seem to think a city is optional. It explains all the support for impractical settings like the Wild West and stuff.

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 08:17 PM
You'd be surprised how many people on these forums seem to think a city is optional. It explains all the support for impractical settings like the Wild West and stuff.
You'd be surprised by how limited people can be in regards to settings, it's why we'll never have anything new...

STDlyMcStudpants
01-17-2014, 08:34 PM
I don't live in a city either, I live in a small town surrounded by country side and forests. Well they use to be forests now its just empty housing estates.

I live in the country not even a town lol...growing up i spent my time climbing trees and exploring.

Hans684
01-17-2014, 09:07 PM
You'd be surprised by how limited people can be in regards to settings, it's why we'll never have anything new...

We should be lucky ACIVBF didn't kill the series with ships and pirates.

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 09:09 PM
We should be lucky ACIVBF didn't kill the series with ships and pirates.
If Ezio didn't destroy the series, then nothing can destroy it...ships and pirates are great

RoBg03
01-17-2014, 09:12 PM
If Ezio didn't destroy the series, then nothing can destroy it...ships and pirates are great

most consider ezio the core of the series...and have been unsatisfied ever since. personally i like the variety we've seen with conner and edward. ezio's still my fav though

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 09:14 PM
most consider ezio the core of the series.
Most people are not bright

RoBg03
01-17-2014, 09:21 PM
Most people are not bright

well, whether you think it bright or not, its technically a fact. he did have a three game run while every other character has had 1. guess the argument that desmond is the core of the series could be made though.

Shahkulu101
01-17-2014, 09:23 PM
You'd be surprised by how limited people can be in regards to settings, it's why we'll never have anything new...

What's wrong with wanting grand, beautiful cities crafted perfectly to suit parkour? I get that, because Ubisoft are churning out their product yearly, we do indeed need variety. It's one of the reasons why ACIV was so good.

However, if they stuck to the 3 games model we'd all be frothing at the mouth with excitement for the new installment and I doubt that: "Aw...another sprawling metropolis? Nat buying brah." would be the first or even last thing on everybody's mind.

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 09:27 PM
well, whether you think it bright or not, its technically a fact.
doesnt make my point any less true..


What's wrong with wanting grand, beautiful cities crafted perfectly to suit parkour?
I never said anything was wrong with it and you basically proved my point here


if they stuck to the 3 games model we'd all be frothing at the mouth from excitement and I doubt that: "Aw...another sprawling metropolis? Nat buying brah."
yeah, thus we'll never have anything new

Shahkulu101
01-17-2014, 09:34 PM
doesnt make my point any less true..


I never said anything was wrong with it and you basically proved my point here


yeah, thus we'll never have anything new

[/COLOR]

But if they stuck with doing 3 games and 3 games only a lack of variety in cities wouldn't be a problem. There would be an actual development of the core mechanics, the plot would remain coherent and the series would have ended gracefully.

Now everybody just gets excited for the latest facade they want to plaster onto AC. ACIV is a great facade though, best AC game in terms of gameplay buuutttt....the overall lore is still clustered. Edward's story was great though.

Kill modern day - put it out of it's misery. It's like keeping a dog alive with no legs, no balls and leaving it in excruciating pain for your own benefit (MONEYYYZZZ)

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 09:37 PM
But if they stuck with doing 3 games and 3 games only a lack of variety in cities wouldn't be a problem.
Of course not...that's what i'm saying the whole time..

Heck, why do you think no one minded 5 friggin games, 3 novels and a short movie with Ezio?? and why they wouldn't mind ANOTHER 15 games with Ezio?? because no one cares about variety, no one wants to step out of their comfort zones, no one wants the series to TRY new things..

that's my whole point

Shahkulu101
01-17-2014, 09:45 PM
Of course not...that's what i'm saying the whole time..

Heck, why do you think no one minded 5 friggin games, 3 novels and a short movie with Ezio?? and why they wouldn't mind ANOTHER 15 games with Ezio?? because no one cares about variety, no one wants to step out of their comfort zones, no one wants the series to TRY new things..

that's my whole point

Ezio has 3 games - nobody cares about handheld AC titles. Novels are secondary to games, nobody would ever complain " Zomg my charaacterz novel no hazz I make putition for heem"

Your exaggerating, and your trying to manipulate - using Ezio as your tool.

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 09:54 PM
Ezio has 3 games - nobody cares about handheld AC titles. Novels are secondary to games, nobody would ever complain " Zomg my charaacterz novel no hazz I make putition for heem"

Your exaggerating, and your trying to manipulate - using Ezio as your tool.
The facts are there....Ezio had 5 games, 3 novels and a short movie and people would gladly pour their money for 15 more games with Ezio..even if the games are a minute of Ezio's life "Ezio's adventures: the grape that betrayed me"

of course I'm exaggerating (wink wink)

Ezio IS a tool, you got that right

TheHumanTowel
01-17-2014, 10:21 PM
You'd be surprised by how limited people can be in regards to settings, it's why we'll never have anything new...
I agree the next assassin's creed should be set in Antarctica. That would a bold new direction for the series and a breath of fresh air.

Assassin_M
01-17-2014, 10:22 PM
I agree the next assassin's creed should be set in Antartica. That would a bold new direction for the series and a breath of fresh air.
You see the light, go forth...

ze_topazio
01-17-2014, 11:32 PM
I agree the next assassin's creed should be set in Antarctica. That would a bold new direction for the series and a breath of fresh air.

Assassin Penguins, count me in.


I agree they should try something new, like Portugal for example. http://i.imgur.com/Q1j8gop.gif

TheHumanTowel
01-18-2014, 01:41 AM
Assassin Penguins, count me in.


I agree they should try something new, like Portugal for example. http://i.imgur.com/Q1j8gop.gif
There's cities in Portugal though so assassin's creed can't be set there because there's already been cities.

ze_topazio
01-18-2014, 02:11 AM
There was no cities in prehistoric times.

Assassin_M
01-18-2014, 02:16 AM
There was no cities in prehistoric times.
there were ant colonies

Racist

ze_topazio
01-18-2014, 02:19 AM
No way, ants lived in caves, every creature lived in caves in prehistorical times, that's common knowledge,

MasterAssasin84
01-18-2014, 02:20 AM
there were ant colonies

Racist


Assassin M back from the Dead :) Ha Ha !

Thats the Beauty of the Animus ! Desmond being an unknowing beneficiary to Abstergo's Research there is no reason why the cannot go back to the first civilisation with Desmonds Genes :) !!

Assassin_M
01-18-2014, 02:22 AM
Assassin M back from the Dead :) Ha Ha !

I seem to be doing that a lot lately >_>


No way, ants lived in caves, every creature lived in caves in prehistorical times, that's common knowledge,
Egyptians lived in the sand, not caves. learn your history

ze_topazio
01-18-2014, 02:29 AM
Egyptians lived in the sand, not caves. learn your history

You're right i apologize and correct myself.


No way, ants lived in caves, every creature lived in caves in prehistorical times, except in Egypt, creatures lived in the sand there, that's common knowledge.



Indeed Assassin_M returned, i was completely convinced he was in Egypt plotting a coup d'etat and was going to crown himself Pharaoh Assassin_M I, and live his days in a pyramid drinking tea and listening Celine Dion greatest hits.

Assassin_M
01-18-2014, 02:31 AM
You're right i apologize and correct myself.


No way, ants lived in caves, every creature lived in caves in prehistorical times, except in Egypt, creatures lived in the sand there, that's common knowledge.
Good lad. I also apologize for the ant mistake, you're not racist at all..

MasterAssasin84
01-18-2014, 02:35 AM
I seem to be doing that a lot lately >_>


Egyptians lived in the sand, not caves. learn your history


I know you how you feel !! Being beaten down with stench hypocrisy and self entitlement !! lol !!

con2008
01-18-2014, 02:48 AM
Antarctica game would bring back the all white robes :D oh yeah :cool:

ze_topazio
01-18-2014, 02:54 AM
Good lad. I also apologize for the ant mistake, you're not racist at all..

Apologies accepted, let's drink this bottle of rum and share sad stories of our miserable lives.