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itsamea-mario
01-12-2014, 03:51 PM
Initiates, the watch and any other gimmicky piece of rubbish that i don't know about irritate me. I used to know almost all there was to know about the AC games, back when all the information about the AC games could be found with in the AC games, but now initiates and all that exist and if i want to know about the story, and not to just side stories, but THE MAIN BLOODY STORYLINE, i have to trawl through some boring community driven notagamething, what's worse is that not doing initiates not only stops me from learning new info that they couldn't be bothered to put into a game, but retcons information i already knew, causing me to actually know less, for instance most of the information learned from reading AC1 emails, is now wrong, they changed it.

Things like The Fall and other little pices of media were okay, for the most part their stories were separate from that of the games, often with little tie in elements, and what's more i wouldn't mind reading or watching them. But initiates is just not at all interesting.

Now please, tell me about how my opinions don't matter and that it's all my fault for not wanting to join in.

Shahkulu101
01-12-2014, 03:54 PM
You and me both me Breda.

killzab
01-12-2014, 03:55 PM
Initiates, the watch and any other gimmicky piece of rubbish that i don't know about irritate me. I used to know almost all there was to know about the AC games, back when all the information about the AC games could be found with in the AC games, but now initiates and all that exist and if i want to know about the story, and not to just side stories, but THE MAIN BLOODY STORYLINE, i have to trawl through some boring community driven notagamething, what's worse is that not doing initiates not only stops me from learning new info that they couldn't be bothered to put into a game, but retcons information i already knew, causing me to actually know less, for instance most of the information learned from reading AC1 emails, is now wrong, they changed it.

Things like The Fall and other little pices of media were okay, for the most part their stories were separate from that of the games, often with little tie in elements, and what's more i wouldn't mind reading or watching them. But initiates is just not at all interesting.

Now please, tell me about how my opinions don't matter and that it's all my fault for not wanting to join in.

I agree with you :) I hate that the stories are not self-contained anymore and that we have to read uninteresting stuff to fill the gaps. I think it's ridiculous how so much information about Haytham and Edward can only be found in books for example... I don't mind The Fall for example since it's self-contained and doesn't have critical information to understand the main games' plots.

Fatal-Feit
01-12-2014, 03:57 PM
I understand you're frustration but it's not like we're missing too much if we only play the games. I think it's rather cool that there's always something to learn about with this series. You never get bored.

aL_____eX
01-12-2014, 06:01 PM
Now please, tell me about how my opinions don't matter and that it's all my fault for not wanting to join in.
Your opinions don't matter and it's all your fault not wanting to join in. :rolleyes:

I actually like Initiates as a day one AC fan. It adds so much more information. I spent about 2 days browsing the database to increase my AC knowledge. And as said before, you don't miss too much if you only play the games. But I can also understand you for not spending your whole time on AC and sometimes some things are spread to much. You definitely have to be a bit crazy in order to get the WHOLE experience. And your budget should not be too small...

ziljn
01-12-2014, 07:10 PM
Initiates, the watch and any other gimmicky piece of rubbish that i don't know about irritate me. I used to know almost all there was to know about the AC games, back when all the information about the AC games could be found with in the AC games, but now initiates and all that exist and if i want to know about the story, and not to just side stories, but THE MAIN BLOODY STORYLINE, i have to trawl through some boring community driven notagamething, what's worse is that not doing initiates not only stops me from learning new info that they couldn't be bothered to put into a game, but retcons information i already knew, causing me to actually know less, for instance most of the information learned from reading AC1 emails, is now wrong, they changed it.

Things like The Fall and other little pices of media were okay, for the most part their stories were separate from that of the games, often with little tie in elements, and what's more i wouldn't mind reading or watching them. But initiates is just not at all interesting.

Now please, tell me about how my opinions don't matter and that it's all my fault for not wanting to join in.

Could someone help the uniformed and clue me in on this Initiates thing? I saw it when I got the game but pretty much ignored it.

But yeah, I tend to agree. I don't have the time or interest in following every side story or project, and if it's part of the main narrative it should be part of the core game.

LoyalACFan
01-12-2014, 09:55 PM
Agree 100%, same reason I hated Project Legacy. From what I understand, Initiates is mostly concerning the modern story which I don't care about anymore, but I feel like the recent tidbits about Adewale's grandson could have been mentioned in the game somehow...

IWGCJoeCool
01-13-2014, 01:26 AM
to agree with one of the replies, i hate that "alternate media" is considered canon. i was very in favor of fleshing out Haytham's whole story, thinking that whatever turned him from Assassin to Templar could fill at least a whole game...only to find out that it is all known. read it, and there is a games worth of Main Mission in the story.

re. AC Initiates.

it's kool enough doing the game related stuff, and fun to watch the bar go red and move on...but the stuff you have to do by reading the other stuff, is just a drag....and was very difficult for me, cuz i'm trying to use game knowledge, and the answers are in some fleshed out fiction.

it's wonky and glitchy alot of the time too, so one thumb up and one thumb down

Siskel & Ebert (RIP)

SixKeys
01-13-2014, 02:09 AM
I don't even follow the modern day story on Initiates. I'm of the opinion that if it's not in the games, it's not important. If Ubi starts making the games themselves confusing and telling us to go buy the gazillion graphic novels, books and use whatever online tie-in they're currently marketing to get the full story, well, screw them.

What did Initiates retcon about the AC1 e-mails, BTW?

MIA SILENT
01-13-2014, 09:24 AM
AC Initiates keeps any further disappointing sub-plots and characters from the main games. If Initiates was what it is today, I don't think we would have seen Daniel Cross or any mention of Alan Rikkin in the main games; including stuff about Eve and maybe even Clay - at least not in the amount we did. But, it's something okay to check out when you have some spare time and want to know as much as you please about AC.

PiNkEyE69
01-13-2014, 11:11 AM
Imitates annoys me that they have an exclusive bundle of items for Black Flag but you can only use it on one platform, even if you own the game on multiple platforms. Why not make it an in game unlock instead of a stupid code you have to get from Ubisoft and enter. So it means I'lll never get my Maid of Amsterdam shanties or custom sails on my Xbox one format. That's not exactly how a 'loyalty' scheme works.

RinoTheBouncer
01-13-2014, 11:25 AM
Yeah, because people like McDevitt now wanna write a generic mainstream historical GTA. They donít bother with real story telling in games. All they want is a game out every year whether itís glitchy or complete.

SixKeys
01-13-2014, 04:43 PM
Yeah, because people like McDevitt now wanna write a generic mainstream historical GTA. They don’t bother with real story telling in games. All they want is a game out every year whether it’s glitchy or complete.

I think people are placing too much blame on Darby for the changes in direction.

Pretend you're in his shoes: your higher-ups DEMAND that an AC game be released every year. You don't have the authority to stop annualizing the games. What would you do differently to maintain the quality that you think is on its way out? What would you do to please both the fans who love the modern day and those who hate it? (Note: you don't get an either-or choice here. You HAVE to please both, or else you're getting fired.)

lothario-da-be
01-13-2014, 04:52 PM
I agree, i don't want these gimmick online projects. All the information from the ac universe should be in games, movies, comics. If it isn't in a real product it shouldn't exist on some crappy site.

ACfan443
01-13-2014, 05:24 PM
I don't even follow the modern day story on Initiates. I'm of the opinion that if it's not in the games, it's not important. If Ubi starts making the games themselves confusing and telling us to go buy the gazillion graphic novels, books and use whatever online tie-in they're currently marketing to get the full story, well, screw them.

What did Initiates retcon about the AC1 e-mails, BTW?

http://i.imgur.com/WU8Q1np.jpg

I'd have preferred that they didn't comment on it at all rather than provide another incredibly lazy closure.

Initiates is gimmicky trash, integrating it into the games and trying to make it a 'thing' is laughable. It's another redundant form of transmedia.

RinoTheBouncer
01-13-2014, 05:35 PM
I think people are placing too much blame on Darby for the changes in direction.

Pretend you're in his shoes: your higher-ups DEMAND that an AC game be released every year. You don't have the authority to stop annualizing the games. What would you do differently to maintain the quality that you think is on its way out? What would you do to please both the fans who love the modern day and those who hate it? (Note: you don't get an either-or choice here. You HAVE to please both, or else you're getting fired.)

I’d do what my predecessors did with AC:R and ACIII. I write a story that matters instead of making a self-contained story that has nothing to do with anything. The game’s been annual since Brotherhood and yet each one of them had it’s 90:10 percentage of Modern/Historical gameplay.

lothario-da-be
01-13-2014, 06:11 PM
http://i.imgur.com/WU8Q1np.jpg

I'd have preferred that they didn't comment on it at all rather than provide another incredibly lazy closure.

Initiates is gimmicky trash, integrating it into the games and trying to make it a 'thing' is laughable. It's another redundant form of transmedia.
WTF they didn't even bother putting this in the game?

killzab
01-13-2014, 06:32 PM
WTF they didn't even bother putting this in the game?

Yet another example of Ubi's failure with the metastory.

lothario-da-be
01-13-2014, 06:55 PM
Yet another example of Ubi's failure with the metastory.
Yeah, Ubi should realy get there **** together and make a cohesive universe/ experience.

dxsxhxcx
01-13-2014, 07:00 PM
they should hire George R. R. Martin to write an AC game... xD

killzab
01-13-2014, 07:03 PM
they should hire George R. R. Martin to write an AC game... xD

Spoiler : everyone dies !

SixKeys
01-13-2014, 07:04 PM
I’d do what my predecessors did with AC:R and ACIII. I write a story that matters instead of making a self-contained story that has nothing to do with anything. The game’s been annual since Brotherhood and yet each one of them had it’s 90:10 percentage of Modern/Historical gameplay.

So you would continue the modern-day with a new protagonist instead of Desmond? What about the people that hate the modern day and want you to get rid of it? (Remember, you're supposed to please them too.)

dxsxhxcx
01-13-2014, 07:09 PM
So you would continue the modern-day with a new protagonist instead of Desmond? What about the people that hate the modern day and want you to get rid of it? (Remember, you're supposed to please them too.)

they just needed to find a way to not force you to play the modern days, even AC4 had some mandatory "missions" during the modern days and I don't see many people (if any) complaining about them, funny thing is that (IMO) they aren't better than the mandatory time we spent in the modern days before AC4...

killzab
01-13-2014, 07:10 PM
So you would continue the modern-day with a new protagonist instead of Desmond? What about the people that hate the modern day and want you to get rid of it? (Remember, you're supposed to please them too.)

It is RIDICULOUS to try to please EVERYONE, you just can't. People will always have different opinions.

SixKeys
01-13-2014, 07:17 PM
It is RIDICULOUS to try to please EVERYONE, you just can't. People will always have different opinions.

Sure, but we're not talking about "everyone". We're talking about the majority of casual players and professional game journalists who hate the modern day. Whether fans want to admit it or not, the people who actually liked Desmond and the modern day are a vocal minority. Go read ANY review of the past few AC games on a major site like IGN, Polygon etc. and you'll find complaints about how Ubi should just ditch modern day altogether because most people hate it.

So what are devs supposed to do? Keeping modern day the way it was (third person protagonist, First Civ, all that stuff) might please the hardcore fans - though still not all of them, as there are plenty of hardcore fans who hate modern day too - but will alienate casual players who think it's unnecessary and stupid. Getting rid of modern day completely will please casuals and professional reviewers, but will alienate the hardcore fans. So who do you go for, ultimately? Do you try to please the millions of new fans who will bring your company more money, or the hundreds or maybe thousands who are already getting franchise fatigue and considering stepping out?

dxsxhxcx
01-13-2014, 07:21 PM
Sure, but we're not talking about "everyone". We're talking about the majority of casual players and professional game journalists who hate the modern day. Whether fans want to admit it or not, the people who actually liked Desmond and the modern day are a vocal minority. Go read ANY review of the past few AC games on a major site like IGN, Polygon etc. and you'll find complaints about how Ubi should just ditch modern day altogether because most people hate it.

So what are devs supposed to do? Keeping modern day the way it was (third person protagonist, First Civ, all that stuff) might please the hardcore fans - though still not all of them, as there are plenty of hardcore fans who hate modern day too - but will alienate casual players who think it's unnecessary and stupid. Getting rid of modern day completely will please casuals and professional reviewers, but will alienate the hardcore fans. So who do you go for, ultimately? Do you try to please the millions of new fans who will bring your company more money, or the hundreds or maybe thousands who are already getting franchise fatigue and considering stepping out?

put an option in the beginning of the game:

Do you want to be interrupted by the modern days' arc during your playthrough?

if you choose yes, you'll play the entire game in the past without any kind of interruption from the modern days, if you choose no, you'll have the entire story to enjoy...

SixKeys
01-13-2014, 07:23 PM
put an option in the beginning of the game:

Do you want to be interrupted by the modern days' arc during your playthrough?

if you choose yes, you'll play the entire game in the past without any kind of interruption from the modern days, if you choose no, you'll have the entire story to enjoy...

So you're saying the devs should spend a crapload of time coming up with two side-by-side plotlines - an in-depth modern day plot with lots of mystery and a clear end goal, plus an in-depth historical plot - only to give 50% of players the option to completely ignore one of these components? Lol, unrealistic expectations much?

adventurewomen
01-13-2014, 07:38 PM
Yeah, Ubi should realy get there **** together and make a cohesive universe/ experience.
Agreed.

dxsxhxcx
01-13-2014, 07:40 PM
So you're saying the devs should spend a crapload of time coming up with two side-by-side plotlines - an in-depth modern day plot with lots of mystery and a clear end goal, plus an in-depth historical plot - only to give 50% of players the option to completely ignore one of these components? Lol, unrealistic expectations much?

you not caring about the modern days arc already made them spend a crapload of time coming up with two side-by-side plotlines...., the difference is that my suggestion gives you the option to not be annoyed by it (if you feel that way), and I doubt they'll completely remove the modern days arc (I wouldn't be surprised if they do, but I don't think they will), liking it or not, it still is part of the Assassin's Creed story and will probably stay in the franchise until this cow be completely dry...

TexasToast712
01-13-2014, 07:43 PM
Jeez, you people act like a little light reading is going to kill you.

RinoTheBouncer
01-13-2014, 09:43 PM
So you would continue the modern-day with a new protagonist instead of Desmond? What about the people that hate the modern day and want you to get rid of it? (Remember, you're supposed to please them too.)

Yes, Iíd keep modern day because itís just 5 to 10% of the game not even 30 or 50% of it, so those who donít like it should get used to the fact that itís only an hour or an hour and a half gameplay among the whole 15 hours long story mode, let along the whole game with itís exploration. Or, if Iím allowed, Iíd release a whole modern day game every few years. In that case, everyone get what they want and the story is progressing.

Modern day has existed since the first game and itís part of the storytelling mechanism so I think whoever is a fan of AC has already gotten used to the idea that theyíre gonna leave the animus for 5 to 10 minutes every 3 hours or so of historical gameplay.

LoyalACFan
01-13-2014, 11:07 PM
Yes, I’d keep modern day because it’s just 5 to 10% of the game not even 30 or 50% of it, so those who don’t like it should get used to the fact that it’s only an hour or an hour and a half gameplay among the whole 15 hours long story mode, let along the whole game with it’s exploration. Or, if I’m allowed, I’d release a whole modern day game every few years. In that case, everyone get what they want and the story is progressing.

Modern day has existed since the first game and it’s part of the storytelling mechanism so I think whoever is a fan of AC has already gotten used to the idea that they’re gonna leave the animus for 5 to 10 minutes every 3 hours or so of historical gameplay.

Much as I dislike modern AC, I actually agree with this. If they scrapped it now, it would just be even more evident than ever that they didn't have a solid plan for it. It would almost be jumping the shark in a way.

Although I do wish they would time the modern sequences so they don't interfere with the historical story. A couple of times in AC3 and 4, I was really into the story right at the moment they ripped us out of it to do some Desmond/Abstergo stuff. They should only take us out of the Animus at the end of certain "acts" (not just sequences) so you're never torn out of the immersion.

SixKeys
01-14-2014, 12:08 AM
Yes, I’d keep modern day because it’s just 5 to 10% of the game not even 30 or 50% of it, so those who don’t like it should get used to the fact that it’s only an hour or an hour and a half gameplay among the whole 15 hours long story mode, let along the whole game with it’s exploration. Or, if I’m allowed, I’d release a whole modern day game every few years. In that case, everyone get what they want and the story is progressing.

Modern day has existed since the first game and it’s part of the storytelling mechanism so I think whoever is a fan of AC has already gotten used to the idea that they’re gonna leave the animus for 5 to 10 minutes every 3 hours or so of historical gameplay.

You're saying people should just get used to the modern day, but AC4 is the first game where the modern day plays a decidedly small role. The people who have been with AC since day 1 have had 5 games to get used to the modern day. The fact that the majority of players never have should tell you something. Ubi got rid of the glyphs because they had solid data that showed that only a fraction of players ever bothered with the Subject 16 puzzles. Do I think it's a shame they tossed the puzzles out? Absolutely. At the same time, I can understand their decision. There's simply very little point spending tons and tons of resources on something that the majority of players are never going to bother with.

LoyalACFan
01-14-2014, 12:22 AM
You're saying people should just get used to the modern day, but AC4 is the first game where the modern day plays a decidedly small role. The people who have been with AC since day 1 have had 5 games to get used to the modern day. The fact that the majority of players never have should tell you something. Ubi got rid of the glyphs because they had solid data that showed that only a fraction of players ever bothered with the Subject 16 puzzles. Do I think it's a shame they tossed the puzzles out? Absolutely. At the same time, I can understand their decision. There's simply very little point spending tons and tons of resources on something that the majority of players are never going to bother with.

The glyphs were slightly different though, since they required several hours of searching and deciphering to solve. Only a couple of them were legitimately difficult, but it was still quite an effort to unlock that final video. Personally, I loved them, but I can understand why people wouldn't want to screw with hunting them all down just to get a video they could look up on YouTube. With the modern content as a whole, though, I've come to accept that more people like it than I ever realized before, and since it plays a decidedly minor role in the overall game, I can't complain too much about its presence.

ShardofTruth
01-14-2014, 12:51 AM
At this point I don't really care if they ditch the modern day story or not, it's already so watered down and conflicted with the actual gameplay that it often doesn't make sense anymore, especially ACIV brought this to a whole new level.
You're supposed to be an Abstergo employee that relives original memory data which is somehow transformed into a game by the company, yet you are already playing a game complete with side missions, collectable hunting and meta-games like Kenways Fleet or the multiplayer mode (which by the way is still not fully explainend since ACB).

The original vision of AC, the original game, with only minimal interface and puppeteering motion controls is long gone and all that is left is some rehash of the same core mechanics (like synchronizing memories, why do we still have these in ACIV?) with new features and gimmicks here and there complete with new side activities for each game which often strech the relive history part to an uncomfortable extent (like the King Washington DLC or the Freedom Cry's slave counter).

I liked Project Legacy because it was completely optional, providing trivia about events that were never refered to in the games, therefore granting a different look at the games' universe.
Initiates is different though, it's developed as some sort of enhanced experience while often showing things that could easily fit in the games without problems. The worst example is how it expands on ACIII's ending (which was a complete let down with all the built-up and cliffhangers in the previous games). Every interaction with it (like getting the two sails and the shanty) feels completely forced and on top of that it's a technical mess.

I never really cared for the books (because the older ones are full of errors and the later ones are about characters I don't want to know more about) or the comics (kinda meh all around) so that's that.

SixKeys
01-14-2014, 01:09 AM
At this point I don't really care if they ditch the modern day story or not, it's already so watered down and conflicted with the actual gameplay that it often doesn't make sense anymore, especially ACIV brought this to a whole new level.
You're supposed to be an Abstergo employee that relives original memory data which is somehow transformed into a game by the company, yet you are already playing a game complete with side missions, collectable hunting and meta-games like Kenways Fleet or the multiplayer mode (which by the way is still not fully explainend since ACB).

The original vision of AC, the original game, with only minimal interface and puppeteering motion controls is long gone and all that is left is some rehash of the same core mechanics (like synchronizing memories, why do we still have these in ACIV?) with new features and gimmicks here and there complete with new side activities for each game which often strech the relive history part to an uncomfortable extent (like the King Washington DLC or the Freedom Cry's slave counter).

I liked Project Legacy because it was completely optional, providing trivia about events that were never refered to in the games, therefore granting a different look at the games' universe.
Initiates is different though, it's developed as some sort of enhanced experience while often showing things that could easily fit in the games without problems. The worst example is how it expands on ACIII's ending (which was a complete let down with all the built-up and cliffhangers in the previous games). Every interaction with it (like getting the two sails and the shanty) feels completely forced and on top of that it's a technical mess.

I never really cared for the books (because the older ones are full of errors and the later ones are about characters I don't want to know more about) or the comics (kinda meh all around) so that's that.

Agreed on everything. Personally I loved the modern day story until ACB. After that it just spiraled out of control and now it's such a mess I don't really care if they ditch it or not. I don't think bringing it back with a new third-person protagonist would fix things like some people think it would. As long as the silly Juno stuff exists and Ubi keeps pushing Initiates for the "full experience", we're not gonna get a cohesive modern day story anymore.

IWGCJoeCool
01-14-2014, 02:12 AM
this thread sorta got split away from the original subject, but lest we forget, the Modern Day was a good deal of what made AC1 special, and it seemed to be important at least, through Revelations. so instead of junking the idea, let it renew itself into importance...and maybe that's the plan...i didnt enjoy it all that much, but it left open many possibilities that could be made riveting.

for one thing, if "I" appear in ACVI again as the modern day Abstergo employee, surely the many long hours i spent as Edward will catch up to me...Bleeding Effect, retained assassination skills, recruitment by the Assassins Order. possbilities are kinda endless.

Fatal-Feit
01-14-2014, 02:41 AM
this thread sorta got split away from the original subject, but lest we forget, the Modern Day was a good deal of what made AC1 special, and it seemed to be important at least, through Revelations. so instead of junking the idea, let it renew itself into importance...and maybe that's the plan...i didnt enjoy it all that much, but it left open many possibilities that could be made riveting.

for one thing, if "I" appear in ACVI again as the modern day Abstergo employee, surely the many long hours i spent as Edward will catch up to me...Bleeding Effect, retained assassination skills, recruitment by the Assassins Order. possbilities are kinda endless.

According to Darby, First Person is staying, but the location is changing. What I think is (and I know i'm off topic) Olivier was kidnapped by Assassins. By Shaun and Rebecca most likely, since they disappeared just as Olivier have and became wanted on the screens. I sure they'll recruit you, Olivier will join the Assassins, Melanie will also join at some point and you'll be surfing through the Animus in Hong Kong, as a Chinese Ancestor. Being able to play a Chinese Ancestor won't be impossible since Clay DID allow Desmond to revisit all of his past memories in an instant and there's a big possibility that Shaun and Rebecca already own a piece of Desmond DNA.

This AC:V - China is getting to me... :nonchalance:

Black_Widow9
01-14-2014, 04:07 AM
they should hire George R. R. Martin to write an AC game... xD
He needs to focus on finishing the books before this happens. He's not getting any younger. :p