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RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 12:39 AM
Alright, this may sound like a silly topic but has anyone every wondered about the logic of being detected in AC games, especially in missions where remaining undetected is a must?

Here we go, we’re in some historical period where there aren’t any walkie-talkies or surveillance cameras or motion detectors and the likes. Ok... so when I’m sneaking behind an enemy for example or heck, I’m running towards him while he’s not looking at me, and he turns around when I’m a few inches away from him and sees me, and in that same instant, I stab him. If it’s a remain-undetected mission, I get desynchronized... now why is that? I mean I’ve been a fan since ACI and this issue’s been there since as long as I can remember. Like what could detecting me possibly change when a second later the guy is dead? is he gonna report me to the angels above so they go and inform the others? or what?

I know they’re trying to make the game challenging but at least stick to common sense. The guy didn’t even have time to yell. This counts as being detected despite him not making a sound, while when I stab him in his back without noticing me and he screams ‘AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH’, nobody notices... makes so much sense to me.

aL_____eX
01-03-2014, 12:49 AM
In ACIII when you kill a guard on the rooftops stealthy(!), blink 1/1000 second too long, and half of the city's guards are behind you! Detection is one major grey area in AC. :nonchalance:

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 12:57 AM
All You can really do is just get used to it in the end

TheDanteEX
01-03-2014, 01:08 AM
The logic behind it is "the Assassin wasn't detected at this time". Not even for a split second, apparently. Doesn't matter if they alerted anybody else, just, no guard ever recognized the Assassin as a threat. Serves as an example of how the framing device excuses can hinder gameplay.

itsamea-mario
01-03-2014, 01:13 AM
The thing says do not be detected. meaning in that part no one saw the ancestor, you let the guard see you running at him, that's being detected and not being in sync.

RoBg03
01-03-2014, 01:57 AM
as dante said, i think its just goes with the whole animus idea, that you're reliving that assassins actions to the tee...since its just a function of the game and not really a funcion of the game world i don't see it as a logic problem. now if he see's you, dies before he can alert anyone and your wanted level goes up...thats something else.

DanPenfold
01-03-2014, 02:00 AM
The thing says do not be detected. meaning in that part no one saw the ancestor, you let the guard see you running at him, that's being detected and not being in sync.

Well said that is what it means. And you said that in a good way very helpful :)

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 11:33 AM
The thing says do not be detected. meaning in that part no one saw the ancestor, you let the guard see you running at him, that's being detected and not being in sync.

So jumping off a three story building doesn’t desynchronize you because your health/sync bar didn’t empty but detection can? It’s really weird how they make synching so strict or so easy at some points.

pacmanate
01-03-2014, 02:00 PM
The logic behind it is "the Assassin wasn't detected at this time". Not even for a split second, apparently. Doesn't matter if they alerted anybody else, just, no guard ever recognized the Assassin as a threat. Serves as an example of how the framing device excuses can hinder gameplay.

There is no "Logic" anymore. Bringing back the 100% sync thing, those were supposed to be actions that your ancestor did exactly during that mission. We get stupid ones like skinning a croc whilst tailing people for example. Why would Edward start skinning a crocodile randomly?

To be fair, for a AAA game, AC is probably one of the worst.

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 02:07 PM
There is no "Logic" anymore. Bringing back the 100% sync thing, those were supposed to be actions that your ancestor did exactly during that mission. We get stupid ones like skinning a croc whilst tailing people for example. Why would Edward start skinning a crocodile randomly?

To be fair, for a AAA game, AC is probably one of the worst.

Dude, that’s perfectly said!
Why would he worry about skinning an alligator while tailing?

egriffin09
01-03-2014, 05:00 PM
honestly, Ubisoft did a great job of hiding the 100% sync objectives from the player. I can't speak for everyone, but I honestly think playing the game and ignoring the 100% sync optional objectives makes the game alot more fun imho.

DinoSteve1
01-03-2014, 05:05 PM
Agreed I gave up syncing the Assassin's Creed games about 5 missions into brotherhood and haven't done since, as it was spoiling my fun.

I-Like-Pie45
01-03-2014, 05:09 PM
The EyeCue solutions

Remove missions entirely and make the entire game one giant QTE
https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc3/c0.3.180.180/s160x160/26913_108216549219016_2467959_a.jpg

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:05 PM
Yeah, even though ACIV made it a lot less frustrating than before but a lot of objectives just don’t make any sense and based on pure luck or replays, like using the fort defenses to sink a ship which can either occur by luck or by owning the fort before the mission. ACII was pretty good and challenging. It was the longest AC game to date and the richest.

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 06:07 PM
Yeah, even though ACIV made it a lot less frustrating than before but a lot of objectives just don’t make any sense and based on pure luck or replays, like using the fort defenses to sink a ship which can either occur by luck or by owning the fort before the mission. ACII was pretty good and challenging. It was the longest AC game to date and the richest.

You mean the story of AC2 was the longest because if you mean the game in it's entirety Black Flag takes the cake

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:11 PM
You mean the story of AC2 was the longest because if you mean the game in it's entirety Black Flag takes the cake
Yeah, the story, of course.

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 06:12 PM
Yeah, the story, of course.
But u do have to admit the story of Black Flag is still pretty long with 13 sequences

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:16 PM
But u do have to admit the story of Black Flag is still pretty long with 13 sequences
It’s definitely not short, but it felt a bit empty or repetitive while ACII was so damn rich and things were continuously happening, especially the striking ending. It felt more theatrical.

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 06:19 PM
It’s definitely not short, but it felt a bit empty or repetitive while ACII was so damn rich and things were continuously happening, especially the striking ending. It felt more theatrical.

That's probably because of the fact that it took place over about 20 years Black flag only takes place in the span of 4-6 years I think?

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:22 PM
That's probably because of the fact that it took place over about 20 years Black flag only takes place in the span of 4-6 years I think?
Yeah, whatever the reasons are, it feels like it wasn’t such a smart choice. I mean I don’t wanna get into ACIV criticism but the game was only made because Pirates are a mainstream theme. Not because it’s anything new or original

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 06:26 PM
Neither is the old revenge story my old friend (I'm talking about Connor by the way)

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:28 PM
Neither is the old revenge story my old friend (I'm talking about Connor by the way)
I wasn’t really fascinated by Connor’s Story and maybe Ezio’s basis of the story were common but at least the game opened doors sot so many stories and theories and explored many modern and historical aspects of the Assassins Creed.

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 06:31 PM
I wasn’t really fascinated by Connor’s Story and maybe Ezio’s basis of the story were common but at least the game opened doors sot so many stories and theories and explored many modern and historical aspects of the Assassins Creed.

I don't like Connor I'm just saying that his story was very cliche (at least Ezio's had a bit of twist and was lengthy)

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:36 PM
I don't like Connor I'm just saying that his story was very cliche (at least Ezio's had a bit of twist and was lengthy)
Yeah, I think the game started going downhill with ACIII.

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 06:40 PM
Yeah, I think the game started going downhill with ACIII.
Went downhill then AC4 shot it in the arm to raise it back up (in my opinion)

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Went downhill then AC4 shot it in the arm to raise it back up (in my opinion)
(in my opinion) ACIV was a great way to improve gameplay but story-wise? it’s getting worse.

pacmanate
01-03-2014, 07:14 PM
But u do have to admit the story of Black Flag is still pretty long with 13 sequences


This means NOTHING. The last few sequences had 3 missions. 3 MISSIONS! Why not just combine those 2 sequences, I was really disappointed in this.

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 07:21 PM
This means NOTHING. The last few sequences had 3 missions. 3 MISSIONS! Why not just combine those 2 sequences, I was really disappointed in this.
I thought the same. The final sequence wasn’t really a sequence, it was a cutscene.

Hrafnagud72
01-03-2014, 09:10 PM
This means NOTHING. The last few sequences had 3 missions. 3 MISSIONS! Why not just combine those 2 sequences, I was really disappointed in this.

You know, I remember thinking to myself on the first play through on the last few sequences, "Didn't I just start a new sequence? Another one already? I couldn't have been playing for that long..." It wasn't until just now that I realized how few missions were in the last sequences.

It doesn't matter how many sequences you have, Edward's story really sucked to me. I didn't find it interesting or engaging at all. I couldn't tell you about most of what happened in the storyline because I didn't find them interesting enough to remember. And many times I found myself thinking, "Why am I doing this mission again? What lead up to this point in the story?"

The stories started plummeting in AC3. I found myself hating Connor and preferring to play as Haytham. When you're favorite thing to play is an assassin and you would rather be the templar, something is wrong.

STDlyMcStudpants
01-03-2014, 09:32 PM
I think they should play on the orginal sync that ac 1 had - health...
And they either limit or let you have full health depending on the characters age/illness...
As you progress through the story you actually gradually loose health bars...say early to mid 20s your health is prime but old Ezio has like 4 health bars compared to young Ezio having 8 or whatever

STDlyMcStudpants
01-03-2014, 09:39 PM
Yeah, even though ACIV made it a lot less frustrating than before but a lot of objectives just don’t make any sense and based on pure luck or replays, like using the fort defenses to sink a ship which can either occur by luck or by owning the fort before the mission. ACII was pretty good and challenging. It was the longest AC game to date and the richest.

Lol assassins creed 2 is only a 10 hour story... Ac 3 is about15...

RinoTheBouncer
01-03-2014, 10:24 PM
Lol assassins creed 2 is only a 10 hour story... Ac 3 is about15...

The ACII story is 14 chapters, not 11. ACIII can be finished in 12 hours.


You know, I remember thinking to myself on the first play through on the last few sequences, "Didn't I just start a new sequence? Another one already? I couldn't have been playing for that long..." It wasn't until just now that I realized how few missions were in the last sequences.

It doesn't matter how many sequences you have, Edward's story really sucked to me. I didn't find it interesting or engaging at all. I couldn't tell you about most of what happened in the storyline because I didn't find them interesting enough to remember. And many times I found myself thinking, "Why am I doing this mission again? What lead up to this point in the story?"

The stories started plummeting in AC3. I found myself hating Connor and preferring to play as Haytham. When you're favorite thing to play is an assassin and you would rather be the templar, something is wrong.

I agree with you!

I’ve always wondered “Did this chapter just end?”. I remember in ACII, ACIII and ACR, sequence lengths were almost identical but now you have really short sequences and others are of moderate length. I loved Edward as a character but the story was non-existent. It felt like a portion of a story, not a fulfilling one. I thought that like by the time he went to join the assassins, we’ll get like 6 more chapters or the moment where he becomes an assassin happens a bit earlier and the story becomes a bit similar to ACIII where we played as Haytham at first then at Connor but no, the story just ended..

And modern day? just because they put some surprise, doesn’t mean that there is a story. It was all pale and just talking about events before the game. God, I wish the world ended in ACIII and we play as Desmond in an ancient-looking post apocalyptic world.

pacmanate
01-03-2014, 10:40 PM
Lol assassins creed 2 is only a 10 hour story... Ac 3 is about15...

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1508062_189016261305669_924689881_n.jpg

STDlyMcStudpants
01-04-2014, 01:29 AM
The ACII story is 14 chapters, not 11. ACIII can be finished in 12 hours.



Chapter # and length aren't the same....
A 10 chapter book can be 200 pages or 30
Look at ac4....an 8hr campaign and had what 13 sequences?

Hrafnagud72
01-04-2014, 08:07 PM
I agree with you!

I’ve always wondered “Did this chapter just end?”. I remember in ACII, ACIII and ACR, sequence lengths were almost identical but now you have really short sequences and others are of moderate length. I loved Edward as a character but the story was non-existent. It felt like a portion of a story, not a fulfilling one. I thought that like by the time he went to join the assassins, we’ll get like 6 more chapters or the moment where he becomes an assassin happens a bit earlier and the story becomes a bit similar to ACIII where we played as Haytham at first then at Connor but no, the story just ended..

And modern day? just because they put some surprise, doesn’t mean that there is a story. It was all pale and just talking about events before the game. God, I wish the world ended in ACIII and we play as Desmond in an ancient-looking post apocalyptic world.

I don't mind not being an assassin until the end. You didn't become an assassin until the end of the second game with Ezio, so that doesn't bother me. The last sequence of AC4 though..."Alright, another sequence." And then it loaded straight into a cutscene and then the game ended. And I was left with, "Wtf was that. It's over?"

And the modern day...There aren't word that can express my hatred for what they are doing to the modern day. I don't want to play 'me'. I want to play a character with a reason for existing and a reason for going into the animus. Not...whatever the hell this is.

Shahkulu101
01-04-2014, 08:35 PM
https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1508062_189016261305669_924689881_n.jpg

I finished AC2 in like 14 hours just recently, and that was including all of Florence's ***-contracts, some other AssContracts and all the tombs. He's not totally wrong.

And WTF is that picture?! More importantly what's it supposed to represent?

pacmanate
01-04-2014, 09:21 PM
And WTF is that picture?! More importantly what's it supposed to represent?

Supporting interracial relationships.

pirate1802
01-06-2014, 01:50 PM
Went downhill then AC4 shot it in the arm to raise it back up (in my opinion)

Thats how I see it too.


This means NOTHING. The last few sequences had 3 missions. 3 MISSIONS! Why not just combine those 2 sequences, I was really disappointed in this.

Because the sequences are like chapters, representing different stages of the story. You can't just put this mission into that sequence. Imagine combining the last two sequences of AC2 into one. And anyway, number of missions mean nothing too. For example, if this was AC2, the Rogers mission would have been divided into atleast 3 different mission. One for meeting the guy. Another for stealing the costume, and then finally for the killing. People don't mention this often, and I too thought AC2 had the most number of missions and its true technically, but having replayed it recently I think there are a lot of missions there that could have been consolidated. Some sequences which in their core contain a single assassination mission become sprawling enough to fit entire sequences. The whole story past the flying machine mission was replete with filler stuff.

AdultShotaro
01-06-2014, 02:27 PM
The Animus said so. Because Framing Device.

RinoTheBouncer
01-07-2014, 11:55 AM
Chapter # and length aren't the same....
A 10 chapter book can be 200 pages or 30
Look at ac4....an 8hr campaign and had what 13 sequences?

I know, but ACII as a game, felt richer and longer. It always takes me longer than ACIV to finish. Forget the side missions or the collectibles. The story as a whole is longer in time and length of gameplay/cutscenes. ACII sequences were almost always of the same length and that wasn’t short, while ACIV had really short ones and others of moderate length.


I don't mind not being an assassin until the end. You didn't become an assassin until the end of the second game with Ezio, so that doesn't bother me. The last sequence of AC4 though..."Alright, another sequence." And then it loaded straight into a cutscene and then the game ended. And I was left with, "Wtf was that. It's over?"

And the modern day...There aren't word that can express my hatred for what they are doing to the modern day. I don't want to play 'me'. I want to play a character with a reason for existing and a reason for going into the animus. Not...whatever the hell this is.

Exactly, yeah. It’s like “yeah lets move to this sequence so we can end the story”. I had hoped that we get some richer ending, but no. With ACII, it’s true we only got inducted into the creed till the end, but the entire game was missions for the assassins, with the assassins or done the way assassins do it. With ACIV, it wasn’t like that. You’re a pirate and all you do is just favors to others to get money from. There wasn’t really anything done for the assassins or for a greater good.

Though ACII was mainly about revenge, but it made you feel like you ARE an assassin taking revenge as well and that evolved with Brotherhood when the good of others became as important to Ezio as revenge, same goes for AC:R. Sadly, they’re not doing any trilogies now featuring the same character so we can kiss this character development goodbye.

pirate1802
01-07-2014, 12:16 PM
I say good riddance to that kind of trilogies. Edward probably developed more than Ezio did in his first two games. I dont need three games on each character to see character development. The writer can show as much in a single game, if he is skillful enough. As was the case with AC4.

And it ma just be me but I didn't feel very assinish either, playing as adolescent Ezio. Just confused kid running around in his father's robes, understanding **** about the two orders. Or if you mean gameplaywise, then in that respect I felt more assassiny in AC4 since apart from a handful of stealth missions, AC2 had its own overload of rescue and escort type missions. Hardly something that makes me feel assassiny..

RinoTheBouncer
01-07-2014, 12:30 PM
I say good riddance to that kind of trilogies. Edward probably developed more than Ezio did in his first two games. I dont need three games on each character to see character development. The writer can show as much in a single game, if he is skillful enough. As was the case with AC4.

And it ma just be me but I didn't feel very assinish either, playing as adolescent Ezio. Just confused kid running around in his father's robes, understanding **** about the two orders. Or if you mean gameplaywise, then in that respect I felt more assassiny in AC4 since apart from a handful of stealth missions, AC2 had its own overload of rescue and escort type missions. Hardly something that makes me feel assassiny..

I have to disagree because I never felt so immersed in a game like I was in ACII to AC:R and ACIII. There was a story that mattered, that felt major and important. I don’t get that feeling in a ACIV be it the present or historical periods. I absolutely LOVED Edward Kenway, his change in the end and development were really remarkable but like any hollywood movie where the scoundrel turns to a noble fighter in the last few minutes, that’s where we got and it feels like that just when things got interesting, the game ended or like we got captions of the interesting parts.

I really enjoyed Connor’s game too but it feels like the story doesn’t matter. Perhaps the lack of cliffhangers had that effect on me, but I wish we have something that keeps me interested, keeps me shocked, a reason to wait for next year other than playing as someone else in a hood with the illusion that he’s part of the same story arc.

pirate1802
01-07-2014, 12:41 PM
The story in AC IV mattered a hell of a lot to me as compared to ACB,R or even iii.. ofcourse I'm talking about the historical story, don't care much about the modern mumbo jumbo. Infact I felt so immersed into the story that I finished almost all the story missions back-to-back. A thing I cant say about any other ACs. I was constantly being pushed by the desire to see what happens next. I don't know what it was but it constantly drove me in a way no other AC did. I played sequences 1 to 4 almost continuously minimal side activity in between, then around 5-6 I sailed around a lot and derped around. And then sequence 7 onwards I raced with the story. Which is telling because BF's world is magnetic, yet the story kept me hooked. Normally I'd play AC games with a good 20-25 minutes between each story mission, doing random crap or running about. Here I went straight from sequence to sequence.

And I'm actually quite happy that this game didnt end on yet another cliffhanger. They are good when used in moderation, but when you have one each year, year after year.. they become cheap and look like a crappy way of holding you attention. Till revelations I was fine with cliffhangers, but after that.. give me a break. Tell a complete story for once? I kinda wished AC III didnt end with a cliffhanger either, but we all know thats not how it happened..

RinoTheBouncer
01-07-2014, 12:50 PM
The story in AC IV mattered a hell of a lot to me as compared to ACB,R or even iii.. ofcourse I'm talking about the historical story, don't care much about the modern mumbo jumbo. Infact I felt so immersed into the story that I finished almost all the story missions back-to-back. A thing I cant say about any other ACs. I was constantly being pushed by the desire to see what happens next. And I'm actually quite happy that this game didnt end on yet another cliffhanger. They are good when used in moderation, but when you have one each year, year after year.. they become cheap. I kinda wished AC III didnt end with a cliffhanger either, but we all know thats not how it happened..

Present Day and First Civilization is probably the most interesting part to me in AC games. Like I literally wait for the part where I leave the animus or enter an ancient temple, LOL. In ACIII, the modern day parts were totally epic. The Grand Temple? I was like “TAKE ME THERE PLEASE!”, AC:R, I LOVED how warm the game felt. Desmond’s Journey? epic, Istanbul? breathtaking, and the whole mature Ezio felt so well-done and I loved how in AC:B, everything went hand in hand with the present and same goes for ACIII.

ACIV, had the great protagonist, with the potential to take the No.1 spot from Ezio on my list but that didn’t happen. ACIV as a whole, had the potential to be my most favorite game but cutting modern day like they did and giving a really short screen time to Juno and her story when the past game had such a cliffhanger that’s too big to just ditch like they did with this one really ruined the experience for me. To me, Assassins are assassins in present day and history, not hackers in present day and pirates in the past and I don’t wanna be “me” some floating camera with no sound or shape or gender, I want a character that matters. I know I’d matter if I was rendered in 3D for a game LOL but just traversing a fancy building and having one-sided conversations was a huge step back from Desmond Miles let alone how the Aita thing came out of nowhere and I’m sure in the next game, they’ll find something else and stray even farther from what’s really at stake.

pirate1802
01-07-2014, 12:57 PM
Lol funny how different perspectives can be. For me its undoubtedly a bonus that the modern day is made optional. I was irritated the hell out everytime I was yanked off the Animus to do missions with Desmond. The parachute mission was great but the others were crappy, imo. That stadium infiltration and the lame abstergo lab "infiltration".. I'd skip them in a heartbeat if I was given that option. Same in AC IV. Everytime I heard Melanie's voice I was like.. STFU lady, and let me enjoy my stuff in peace! While in the modern day AE office the only thing I'd think about is how to finish this crap fast enough to get back into the beautiful Caribbean.. Didnt spend a single second in the modern day part apart from the mandatory time and not intending to either, on future playthroughs. If they keep this approach I'd certainly not be complaining. :p

Btw, assassins can be hackers and pirates. There's nothing stopping them. Just like they can be thieves and *****s too. Being an assassin is like your religion, not you job.

RinoTheBouncer
01-07-2014, 01:04 PM
Lol funny how different perspectives can be. For me its undoubtedly a bonus that the modern day is made optional. I was irritated the hell out everytime I was yanked off the Animus to do missions with Desmond. The parachute mission was great but the others were crappy, imo. That stadium infiltration and the lame abstergo lab "infiltration".. I'd skip them in a heartbeat if I was given that option. Same in AC IV. Everytime I heard Melanie's voice I was like.. STFU lady, and let me enjoy my stuff in peace! While in the modern day AE office the only thing I'd think about is how to finish this crap fast enough to get back into the beautiful Caribbean.. Didnt spend a single second in the modern day part apart from the mandatory time and not intending to either, on future playthroughs. If they keep this approach I'd certainly not be complaining. :p

Btw, assassins can be hackers and pirates. There's nothing stopping them. Just like they can be thieves and *****s too. Assassin is like your religion, not you job.

Hehehe,

With such different perspectives, I’m not sure how Ubisoft will proceed with it. LOL. I mean if I’m working at Ubisoft, I’d either make a 50/50 long-*** AC game every 2 years or release one full modern one full historical AC game every other year like 2014-Modern, 2015-Historical, 2016-Modern, 2017-Historical. All connected with different teams working on each and insuring that each game is rich, important and immersive, story-wise, gameplay-wise and character-wise.

pirate1802
01-07-2014, 01:32 PM
Ideal situation would be them taking their time and releasing one very long AC every 2.5-3 years that satiate everyone, but...

RinoTheBouncer
01-07-2014, 02:54 PM
Ideal situation would be them taking their time and releasing one very long AC every 2.5-3 years that satiate everyone, but...

Yup, that’s the perfect solution. Sadly, they’re choosing quantity over quality.