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View Full Version : Why are the double combat kills impossible in Black Flag?



SquareToShoot
12-30-2013, 01:48 PM
AC3, quite occasionally two enemies would attack you at the same time and you could do the awesome double kills. Even manipulate your position so it would happen. In Black Flag though, well, it's practically impossible. I clocked up about 40 hours on the Xbox 360 version, hundreds of fights, and it happened ONCE. And that was just a fluke not very far in. Tried and tried to do it again and nothing. It just wouldn't happen.

Now playing the Xbox One version. Bit further into the story this time, but again, have clocked up at least 40 hours play and yet again it has happened just ONCE, early on, and it's impossible to get it to do it again.

What's the deal with this? :confused::confused:

x___Luffy___x
12-30-2013, 03:07 PM
they seem to be pretty rare. in my 58 hours of gameplay i saw them happening just 2 times.

oliacr
12-30-2013, 03:17 PM
I can remember if I had one or not.

Razrback16
12-30-2013, 03:55 PM
It's definitely rare. I do enjoy those, too bad it didn't happen more. Wish there was a little more opportunity in main missions to fight upward of 20-30 guys at once like the Ezio mission where he rescues Caterina from the Borgia castle and has to defend the bridge for 30 seconds from 20-30 enemies. Love those types of fights.

oliacr
12-30-2013, 03:57 PM
It's definitely rare. I do enjoy those, too bad it didn't happen more. Wish there was a little more opportunity in main missions to fight upward of 20-30 guys at once like the Ezio mission where he rescues Caterina from the Borgia castle and has to defend the bridge for 30 seconds from 20-30 enemies. Love those types of fights.

I love those too. I really liked the double kills animations though. It was a great idea. It should have been in AC1-ACR too. :D

MnemonicSyntax
12-30-2013, 04:10 PM
Double tool kills replace them, and can be done at almost anytime as long as the first enemy you target is low level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs

ACIDIC SWORDS
12-30-2013, 04:21 PM
Double tool kills replace them, and can be done at almost anytime as long as the first enemy you target is low level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs

How the hell do you do those. Do you have to be close to your highlighted target in your streak when you push Y ,because from experience he just shoots the highlighted enemy

MnemonicSyntax
12-30-2013, 04:23 PM
I hold it down, but yes, that's the idea.

ACIDIC SWORDS
12-30-2013, 04:24 PM
Ok ill try that today. oh yeah great video

MnemonicSyntax
12-30-2013, 04:29 PM
Thanks.

You can actually continue that chain too, as long as the first enemy you target outside the chain is lower level and you have ammunition for the tool you're using and not interrupted.

So counter kill a low level, double tool kill a low level/low level or low level/high level, then the next double tool kill would be low level/low level or low/high.

It's difficult to explain but as long as your first enemy targeted is a low level, Edward will kill the next one closest regardless if it's high level or not. The Brute that grabbed by hand at the beginning of the video is an example of this, as I targeted the wrong guy.

This also works with swords too, not just hidden blades.

ACIDIC SWORDS
12-30-2013, 04:34 PM
Yeah that makes sense, thanks

x___Luffy___x
12-30-2013, 05:35 PM
tool ones are good too but i kinda prefer the ones wher two guards attack. in AC3 they were so awesome.

pirate1802
12-30-2013, 05:38 PM
I must have seen 6-7 in my 75 hour stint..

STDlyMcStudpants
12-30-2013, 05:43 PM
I did it 3 or 4 times in the single hour of doing the disarm challenges (Doing them wrong..i had weapon in hand and couldnt figure out what thy werent disarming) but I would do double kills often..but not truly sure HOW I did them..they were all on accident, but they were beautiful lol.

SquareToShoot
12-30-2013, 06:19 PM
Hmmmm. Double tool kills eh. I didn't know about this. I'll have a look at this later when I can. Still, they can't be that easy to do by accident considering I've literally seen 2 of them over a combined 75+ hours across the 360 and X1.

MnemonicSyntax
12-30-2013, 06:36 PM
Double counter kills are practically non-existent. Double tool kills though, are very present, as shown in the video.

Fatal-Feit
12-30-2013, 07:22 PM
Double tool kills were made to be much easier in AC:IV. You had to be really really close up to do it in AC:3. I'm surprised most people does not know about this.

SquareToShoot
12-30-2013, 10:02 PM
Double tool kills were made to be much easier in AC:IV. You had to be really really close up to do it in AC:3. I'm surprised most people does not know about this.

lol, well, they didn't tell anybody did they?

Kagurra
12-30-2013, 10:17 PM
I hold it down, but yes, that's the idea.

Hm.. I double tap it. Maybe you just need to press it once during the killstreak.

Fatal-Feit
12-30-2013, 10:33 PM
lol, well, they didn't tell anybody did they?

They have a manual.

SquareToShoot
12-30-2013, 10:36 PM
They have a manual.

I only read game manuals on the toilet though and since they don't bother providing them anymore, well, I don't really want to toilet in my pants whilst playing it to see the manual.

DinoSteve1
12-30-2013, 10:36 PM
Am I the only one that while fighting on a ship keeps getting hit by guys off screen, they just jump in out of nowhere, you get no counter warning at all.

dewgel
12-30-2013, 10:37 PM
lol, well, they didn't tell anybody did they?

Sorry to revive this one from the evil land of Page 2, but thought I'd make a little input here.

Double Counter Kills are different to Double Tool Kills. Both are still present in Black Flag.

Double Counter Kills can be done with Hidden Blades, Swords, Machete (Adewale) and Fists. It's essentially exactly the same as Connor's double counter kills, which are the fancy animations that are being referred to at the start here. For some reason they've been made really rare. From what I read somewhere, they don't work on ships / boarding because the game engine is utilizing resources on your crew's AI. But in Havana, Kingston and Nassau, they happen.

Double Tool Kills are performed by holding down Triangle or Y during a killstreak (minimum of 1 soldier already killed). These can be done with Rope Darts and Pistols in Black Flag. Essentially, as mentioned above, Edward will grab the nearest soldier, and target the next nearest one and kill them both at once.

Also, on the same subject, the Double Tool Kills were still present in AC3, and just as cool. They could be done with Rope Darts, Pistols and the Bow and Arrow. Did you also know you could counter an enemy while you've got the trip mine equipped, if you hit the tool button Connor stick the mine in the soldier's pocket and throw him toward the other soldiers, essentially blowing them up.

Alllllso, the quoted post - They did tell us about these. They're explained in the Haytham tutorial section of AC3 (And after getting the pistols of Rodgers / Du Casse in ACIV)

Fatal-Feit
12-30-2013, 10:44 PM
I only read game manuals on the toilet though and since they don't bother providing them anymore, well, I don't really want to toilet in my pants whilst playing it to see the manual.

lol

MnemonicSyntax
12-30-2013, 10:52 PM
Sorry to revive this one from the evil land of Page 2, but thought I'd make a little input here.

Double Counter Kills are different to Double Tool Kills. Both are still present in Black Flag.

Double Counter Kills can be done with Hidden Blades, Swords, Machete (Adewale) and Fists. It's essentially exactly the same as Connor's double counter kills, which are the fancy animations that are being referred to at the start here. For some reason they've been made really rare. From what I read somewhere, they don't work on ships / boarding because the game engine is utilizing resources on your crew's AI. But in Havana, Kingston and Nassau, they happen.

Double Tool Kills are performed by holding down Triangle or Y during a killstreak (minimum of 1 soldier already killed). These can be done with Rope Darts and Pistols in Black Flag. Essentially, as mentioned above, Edward will grab the nearest soldier, and target the next nearest one and kill them both at once.

Also, on the same subject, the Double Tool Kills were still present in AC3, and just as cool. They could be done with Rope Darts, Pistols and the Bow and Arrow. Did you also know you could counter an enemy while you've got the trip mine equipped, if you hit the tool button Connor stick the mine in the soldier's pocket and throw him toward the other soldiers, essentially blowing them up.

Alllllso, the quoted post - They did tell us about these. They're explained in the Haytham tutorial section of AC3 (And after getting the pistols of Rodgers / Du Casse in ACIV)

Also to note: Nearest guard MUST be low level or it won't work at all. Captains and Brutes will counter it.

DinoSteve1
12-30-2013, 10:53 PM
I only read game manuals on the toilet though and since they don't bother providing them anymore, well, I don't really want to toilet in my pants whilst playing it to see the manual.

Ah good I'm not the only one, I miss my toilet reading material.

SquareToShoot
12-31-2013, 12:02 AM
Sorry to revive this one from the evil land of Page 2, but thought I'd make a little input here.

Double Counter Kills are different to Double Tool Kills. Both are still present in Black Flag.

Double Counter Kills can be done with Hidden Blades, Swords, Machete (Adewale) and Fists. It's essentially exactly the same as Connor's double counter kills, which are the fancy animations that are being referred to at the start here. For some reason they've been made really rare. From what I read somewhere, they don't work on ships / boarding because the game engine is utilizing resources on your crew's AI. But in Havana, Kingston and Nassau, they happen.

Double Tool Kills are performed by holding down Triangle or Y during a killstreak (minimum of 1 soldier already killed). These can be done with Rope Darts and Pistols in Black Flag. Essentially, as mentioned above, Edward will grab the nearest soldier, and target the next nearest one and kill them both at once.

Also, on the same subject, the Double Tool Kills were still present in AC3, and just as cool. They could be done with Rope Darts, Pistols and the Bow and Arrow. Did you also know you could counter an enemy while you've got the trip mine equipped, if you hit the tool button Connor stick the mine in the soldier's pocket and throw him toward the other soldiers, essentially blowing them up.

Alllllso, the quoted post - They did tell us about these. They're explained in the Haytham tutorial section of AC3 (And after getting the pistols of Rodgers / Du Casse in ACIV)

Well holy cow, you're correct! I've just tried the double counter kills in Havana and low and behold they worked. In fact I was pretty much doing them for fun! Thank you for that info :)

Tried a double tool thing but couldn't get that to work although I haven't watched the video yet. I shall do so now. It's gonna be a double counter double tool killfest tonight!

adventurewomen
12-31-2013, 12:33 AM
I only read game manuals on the toilet though and since they don't bother providing them anymore, well, I don't really want to toilet in my pants whilst playing it to see the manual.
Haha! :D

I don't read manuals any more either, I always seem to just find a way.. the AC games always have animus training is various forms.

I-Like-Pie45
12-31-2013, 12:42 AM
I'd read manuals if they actually put effort into them like the old days

There used to be concept art, story background, character bios, etc. in add. to the instructions

Nowadays, you'd be lucky just to get the controls.

EchoFiveKilo
12-31-2013, 04:45 AM
They're super rare now either because:

- People b*tching about AC3 were heard, even though they were the minority (Pretty sure everyone thought AC3s combat was awesome, the only thing being that it was easy)
- ACIV dev team didnt have the same creative vision that AC3s combat dev team had, so if they copy pasted any more animations it wouldve been too obvious
- ACIV dev team couldnt be bothered to choreograph any more double counter kills

MnemonicSyntax
12-31-2013, 04:51 AM
There are new animations though.

STDlyMcStudpants
12-31-2013, 06:55 AM
Double Counter Kills can be done with Hidden Blades, Swords, Machete (Adewale) and Fists. It's essentially exactly the same as Connor's double counter kills, which are the fancy animations that are being referred to at the start here. For some reason they've been made really rare. From what I read somewhere, they don't work on ships / boarding because the game engine is utilizing resources on your crew's AI. But in Havana, Kingston and Nassau, they happen.

Yes, Havana is where i was doing the double counter kill, you can do them with muskets too (First one I did) I was trying to do the disarm challenge and had weapon in hand so was countering instead and accidently did a double counter kill 3 times haha

EchoFiveKilo
12-31-2013, 06:58 AM
There are new animations though.

I saw three new double counters for the dual swords - the other two dual sword double kills are recycled from AC3, with very minor adjustments to make them accomodate the dual swords instead of tomahawk - as well as different camera angles trying to mask the fact that it was recycled.
The rest of the double kills for every weapon are recycled from ac3.

MnemonicSyntax
12-31-2013, 07:06 AM
There's at least one new hidden blade one that Connor or Haytham didn't do.

EchoFiveKilo
12-31-2013, 08:48 AM
There's at least one new hidden blade one that Connor or Haytham didn't do.

Can you show me any youtube videos that have the move? I havent come across it

Anyway I am deeply disappointed with the combat, I was expecting Edward to have a whole new set of animations, and while he does have a handful of new hidden blade and dual sword animations, the large majority of them are copy pasta from AC3, such as the ENTIRE fist, axe and musket animations, and some reused hidden blade, tomahawk, and single sword animations.

I would've been okay with the recycling if they made it look as fluid as AC3's - in AC4, the animations look very clunky and awkward looking - its as though they werent mocapped, or are running at half the framerate.

SixKeys
12-31-2013, 11:44 AM
Oddly enough I figured out how to do these in AC4 before ever figuring them out in AC3. I managed two double kills in AC4 purely by luck, I don't remember getting even one in AC3, lol. I still don't know how you're supposed to trigger them (PC controls).

killzab
12-31-2013, 12:20 PM
Oddly enough I figured out how to do these in AC4 before ever figuring them out in AC3. I managed two double kills in AC4 purely by luck, I don't remember getting even one in AC3, lol. I still don't know how you're supposed to trigger them (PC controls).

Seriously ? they happen way more often in ACIII. You just have to press the guard button whenever you see two guards attacking at once ( watch the red symbol above their heads). It works exactly the same way as in ACIV except it's much more common in III.

SixKeys
12-31-2013, 12:36 PM
Seriously ? they happen way more often in ACIII. You just have to press the guard button whenever you see two guards attacking at once ( watch the red symbol above their heads). It works exactly the same way as in ACIV except it's much more common in III.

What do you mean by "guard button"? I'm a button-masher and pretty much forgot every other move except attack after the initial Haytham tutorial.

dxsxhxcx
12-31-2013, 02:21 PM
What do you mean by "guard button"? I'm a button-masher and pretty much forgot every other move except attack after the initial Haytham tutorial.

the counter button (E on PC), when two guards attack you at once you'll see a red sign above their heads, then you press E to enter in slow motion and then the attack button (Left mouse button) then you'll trigger the double kill animation... just go into an enemy ship with tons of enemies and keep countering without kill the guards until two enemies attack you at once, it might take some time since it takes ages for the enemies to attack you...

MnemonicSyntax
12-31-2013, 02:47 PM
Can you show me any youtube videos that have the move? I havent come across it

Anyway I am deeply disappointed with the combat, I was expecting Edward to have a whole new set of animations, and while he does have a handful of new hidden blade and dual sword animations, the large majority of them are copy pasta from AC3, such as the ENTIRE fist, axe and musket animations, and some reused hidden blade, tomahawk, and single sword animations.

I would've been okay with the recycling if they made it look as fluid as AC3's - in AC4, the animations look very clunky and awkward looking - its as though they werent mocapped, or are running at half the framerate.

@ 1:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs

I don't recall that one in 3.

Kirokill
12-31-2013, 02:58 PM
@ 1:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs

I don't recall that one in 3.

It is in AC3.

Edit: http://youtu.be/dnLOdWPKSQE?t=5m9s
5:09

killzab
12-31-2013, 03:10 PM
What do you mean by "guard button"? I'm a button-masher and pretty much forgot every other move except attack after the initial Haytham tutorial.

http://www.eienblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/facepalm.jpg

MnemonicSyntax
12-31-2013, 03:31 PM
It is in AC3.

Edit: http://youtu.be/dnLOdWPKSQE?t=5m9s
5:09

I'll be dipped.

Well, thanks for posting that. I won't deny that most of the animations are recycled anyway, but I thought there was at least one new hidden blade animation.

SixKeys
12-31-2013, 03:32 PM
the counter button (E on PC), when two guards attack you at once you'll see a red sign above their heads, then you press E to enter in slow motion and then the attack button (Left mouse button) then you'll trigger the double kill animation... just go into an enemy ship with tons of enemies and keep countering without kill the guards until two enemies attack you at once, it might take some time since it takes ages for the enemies to attack you...

Yeah, this never happens to me, not even in AC3. The only time I managed to get the double kill animation in AC4 was inside a fortress, probably since there's more space to fight. I don't really care though, combat in AC is little more than an obstacle on the way to more interesting things.

Kirokill
12-31-2013, 04:11 PM
Yeah, this never happens to me, not even in AC3. The only time I managed to get the double kill animation in AC4 was inside a fortress, probably since there's more space to fight. I don't really care though, combat in AC is little more than an obstacle on the way to more interesting things.

I found out in AC3 that you can't do it when there is only 2 enemies, there have to be more as the final guy you kill must have that zooming thing.


I'll be dipped.

Well, thanks for posting that. I won't deny that most of the animations are recycled anyway, but I thought there was at least one new hidden blade animation.

There is a new double counter kill animation with fists I think... I saw it the other day. Also I'm alright with that recycle from AC3. I liked the kill animations in it.

EchoFiveKilo
12-31-2013, 11:08 PM
@ 1:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs

I don't recall that one in 3.

Sorry mate, it was in AC3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y6SsGODcGw

Happens at around 5 seconds.

Notice that basically every double kill that AC4 features, is in this video INCLUDING tool kills. The only ones that werent recycled, were because they featured too much of Connors fighting style (left hand hidden blade becomes swivel blade) so it would've been too obvious if they copied. They somehow managed to make them look graphically worse and animation wise, make them look worse. Changing the camera angle, zooming it out a bit and making the camera shake erratically does not change the fact that they copy pasta'd.

Now, I would be okay with the copying IF they made the kills look exactly like in this video - I don't think anyone can argue that AC4s double kills look better than AC3s. If combat in AC becomes 'what can we edit from the last game to look like new' then there really is no innovation.

salman147
01-01-2014, 08:03 AM
How the hell do you do those. Do you have to be close to your highlighted target in your streak when you push Y ,because from experience he just shoots the highlighted enemy

I'm having issues too.Can you explain properly how to do that? Is there a guide elsewhere that explains this process????PLS HELP...

salman147
01-01-2014, 08:18 AM
Never mind.I figured it out

salman147
01-01-2014, 08:38 AM
Hey did anyone notice a ghosts MAn O war? I spotted one of LV 36,neared it and..it Disappeared! I turn around and I notice another Man O war lv 36.I near it and it disappeared.I noticed another exact one at afar with my spyglass but ignored it.It happened before starting sequence 10 in the HARD ZONE.

Sabuto78
01-01-2014, 12:20 PM
Dam kinda tough to pull off and get use to guess ima have to practice it a lot :s