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View Full Version : Poll: How many of of you would like the Fw 190D-11/12/13 implemented in FB?



robban75
02-15-2004, 05:41 AM

robban75
02-15-2004, 05:41 AM

02-15-2004, 05:47 AM
that could be cool,,,,,but now we are getting that TA-152H-1 so dont realy need more doras..http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/comp2.gif

ElfunkoI
02-15-2004, 05:51 AM
And Fw-190 A6!

nixon-fiend.
02-15-2004, 06:34 AM
Pfft! we have more than enough of these ugly focke wulfs already! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-15-2004, 06:38 AM
they are ugly

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/JaVAPlatypus-1java.JPG (http://www.1java.org)

Cajun76
02-15-2004, 06:44 AM
I most certainly need some education, but wasn't the D-12 the only variant of the choices to see more than just a few examples? 1 x 30mm and 2 x 20mm sounds pretty devastating, though. I voted middle choice, the more the merrier. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (As long as I can get my P-47N) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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Have you thanked a veteran today?

robban75
02-15-2004, 08:25 AM
IIRC At least 30 Fw 190D-13 were built and flown by frontline units. About 20+ Fw 190D-11's were built and most likely they were used in action. Not sure how many D-12's, but Walter Krupinski flew it in combat. The D-12 and D-13 was basically the same, apart from the armament. The D-13 carried 3 x 20mm MG151's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

p1ngu666
02-15-2004, 08:34 AM
i dont think many d13's where made, was a prototype i finks. the mag that had it in is up in the loft again :\

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

robban75
02-15-2004, 08:47 AM
The famous "Yellow 10" was the 17th manufactured D-13. It is believed that 20 of the 30 D-13 was flown by JG26, and saw action.

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Zen--
02-15-2004, 08:47 AM
It would be nice to have more versions of it, along with more proper loadout options too. I'd like to fly something with a MK108 that's a bit less intimidating than the TA152, at least once in a while.

The D9 suits me just fine I must say, but variety is the spice of life.


And I can't believe that you put UGLY as one of the poll choices pppphhhhhhhhhbbllllllllllllllttttttttttttt!!!

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

kyrule2
02-15-2004, 09:19 AM
I selected #2. I wouldn't say they are a must have but they certainly would be sweet.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

3./JG51_Hunde
http://www.jg51.com/

robban75
02-15-2004, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
And I can't believe that you put UGLY as one of the poll choices pppphhhhhhhhhbbllllllllllllllttttttttttttt!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only put it there because there are some people here that think it's ugly. It would give them a suitable option. They are wrong of course. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No fighter can match the Fw 190D in terms of sinister beauty!

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

NN_EnigmuS
02-15-2004, 09:57 AM
we need the FW190 D11 at least for playing some papagei scenario lol

VW-IceFire
02-15-2004, 10:06 AM
Harti is doing a Ta-152C which is more Dora like than the Ta-152H. Apparently its got 4xMG151/20 and 1xMK108 cannon. That will also do...although the place where they were stationed was overrun before they could fly in combat.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

JG26Red
02-15-2004, 10:18 AM
i would to see more firepower on a D type bird... 152H will be ok, but the C would deadly!

MandMs
02-15-2004, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Harti is doing a Ta-152C which is more Dora like than the Ta-152H. Apparently its got 4xMG151/20 and 1xMK108 cannon. That will also do...although the place where they were stationed was overrun before they could fly in combat.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ta152 C was a Ta152H fuselage with a slighty larger span Fw190 wing. Both the C and H had the more rearward positioned cockpit, when compared to the D.

Some drawings http://www.aviacherteg.narod.ru/avia/Drawings/WWII/WWII_LWF/FW190/Fw190D_ML/FW190D_ML.htm

ZG77_Nagual
02-15-2004, 10:28 AM
I'm happy with what we've got, but sure.
The ta152c is a definite 'what if' plane - the H was around but barely.

MandMs
02-15-2004, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
I'm happy with what we've got, but sure.
The ta152c is a definite 'what if' plane - the H was around but barely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


How many P-63s saw combat?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Then there is that VVS fighter of which, what was it, 6 were made, that is in the IL-2FB plane set.

02-15-2004, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
I'm happy with what we've got, but sure.
The ta152c is a definite 'what if' plane - the H was around but barely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


How many P-63s saw combat?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Then there is that VVS fighter of which, what was it, 6 were made, that is in the IL-2FB plane set.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


ALOT........!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


And dora is ugly..it looks like *****...lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/comp2.gif

MandMs
02-15-2004, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolf4ever:

ALOT........!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Better do a refresher course on a/c ID. Very few P-63s saw combat while there was a lot of P-39s that saw combat.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

georgeo76
02-15-2004, 11:48 AM
I think the 190 series is well represented in this game. Given my druthers, I'd have more AC types, rather than more AC variants.

http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/buck2.gif
"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up. "
Fiend's Wings (http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend)

02-15-2004, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgeo76:
I think the 190 series is well represented in this game. Given my druthers, I'd have more AC types, rather than more AC variants.

http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend/images/buck2.gif
"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up. "
http://webpages.charter.net/Stick_Fiend<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


yea..me 2........who need planes lime Emile?!..lol and i-185

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/comp2.gif

Cajun76
02-15-2004, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:

Better do a refresher course on a/c ID. Very few P-63s saw combat while there was _a lot_ of P-39s that saw combat.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't we just go over this in the P-63 thread? Something like +2000 were delivered to the Soviets, although the US never used them for combat, only targets for gunnery practice.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Realfire_02.gif
Have you thanked a veteran today?

02-15-2004, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:

Better do a refresher course on a/c ID. Very few P-63s saw combat while there was _a lot_ of P-39s that saw combat.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't we just go over this in the P-63 thread? Something like +2000 were delivered to the Soviets, although the US never used them for combat, only targets for gunnery practice.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Realfire_02.gif
Have you thanked a veteran today?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Gues some pll still dont get it......



here u go MandMs

p-63 tread... (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=348102502)

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/comp2.gif

Cajun76
02-15-2004, 01:59 PM
Getting back on topic, and back to my first post...

I realize that we have a few "special" planes here in FB. The MiG-3 AM-38 is often brought up, as well as the BI-1. That's why I'm not opposed to seeing other examples of semi-rare a/c in here. My point was that, from my limited knowledge, the -12 was the most significant model between the -11/12/13 Dora's. If we are going to get one of them, I think it should be the D-12.

A similar example is the P-47N project. I know the M has much better climb performance, and would probably be better in DF servers, but the P-47N saw much more action, was just a tad slower and probably turned better due to the extended wings. For sure it rolled better. So if I have to make a choice, it's the P-47N. My thoughts for the D-12 follow a simular direction. I've been flying the D-9 '44 lately, and have liked the experiance. A diferant gunnery experiance to get used to, compared to the P-47 I normally fly, but fun.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Realfire_02.gif
Have you thanked a veteran today?

A.K.Davis
02-15-2004, 03:21 PM
well, I can't really think of any WWII plane I wouldn't want to see in the game. Now, if some modeler is sitting around trying to decide whether to model a D-12 or a medium bomber, I'm going to push them in the direction of the bomber. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

robban75
02-15-2004, 03:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Now, if some modeler is sitting around trying to decide whether to model a D-12 or a medium bomber, I'm going to push them in the direction of the bomber. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the D-12 was a fighterbomber. The best of both worlds! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

p1ngu666
02-15-2004, 03:53 PM
yes, more bombers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
02-15-2004, 04:17 PM
LuftWhiners ask for Fw190-D-17b6-subsection-9-paragraph-12b/6a

Real Fans of the Luftwaffe ask for pre~Email Fb109 Dora http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif any 109 Dora version doesn't matter.


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

MandMs
02-15-2004, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolf4ever:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MandMs:

Better do a refresher course on a/c ID. Very few P-63s saw combat while there was _a lot_ of P-39s that saw combat.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gues some pll still dont get it......

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


GUESS some PEOPLE have trouble reading? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So here it is again,VERY FEW P-63S SAW COMBAT.

Maybe you should take reading lessons as well as taking your own advice on reading another thread.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
02-15-2004, 04:33 PM
Okay robban I Voted MUST HAVE but I expect your support for building a Movement to make He~51 Flyable and P~51 AI only. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

*(runs away from Bear)*

__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

Thrawn888
02-15-2004, 05:57 PM
personally, with the ta152 C/H coming in the other 3 doras are not needed as they are likely inferior to the 152 anyway (my opinion)

if any new 190s were to be added i would like to see the A-1/2/3 for early 190s in the 1941 area, but thats just me, since the A-1 or A-2 (i forgot) owned the spitVB

robban75
02-15-2004, 11:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Okay robban I Voted MUST HAVE but I expect your support for building a Movement to make He~51 Flyable and P~51 AI only. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

*(runs away from Bear)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifSure, you got it! Except for the P-51 AI only thing! There's no better opponent for the Dora than a human flown Mustang! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Piaggio108
02-17-2004, 06:50 PM
I don't think it saw much action, but anything that ever made it to the flying prototype stage should be in some sim somewere. Actualy, anything that made the drawingboard should be in some sim.

DONB3397
02-17-2004, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgeo76:
I think the 190 series is well represented in this game. Given my druthers, I'd have more AC types, rather than more AC variants.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. With the Ta-152, we'll have a full lineup...from mudmover (Fs) to high-altitude glider/fighters (Ta). My preference for new a/c would be flyable medium bombers for the ETO or PTO fighters.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCiIbMAB3LrWLZQo

BaneTheEvilOne
02-17-2004, 07:54 PM
We need all Doras, people who say they are ugly say lot about themselves.
Some of them are those squeling for spits,
am i right, or not?

WUAF_Badsight
02-17-2004, 09:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgeo76:
I think the 190 series is well represented in this game. Given my druthers, I'd have more AC types, rather than more AC variants. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


WELL THE LW HAVE ONLY 2 PLANE OPTIONS

HOWS THAT FOR LIMITATION

the LW having only the Bf109 or FW-190 to choose from DESERVE to have : .....

1) ultra well moddeled planes (FM , DM)

2) as many varients as possible

............... SO : P

02-17-2004, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
WELL THE LW HAVE ONLY 2 PLANE OPTIONS

HOWS THAT FOR LIMITATION<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blame Hitler for that one, not Oleg.

Late model Doras should not be a priority. We would be better served with, say, a Fw 190A-6 or a Fw 190G.

Stick with the most numerous aircraft. If there were less than ~1000 of a particular type flying, it was marginal. And by that reasoning, the entire luftwaffe had become marginal by the end of the war!

Let the revisionist flaming commence http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

necrobaron
02-17-2004, 11:15 PM
I voted for the 2nd option. Really,there aren't many 30's/40's planes that I wouldn't want for FB. The more the merrier! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Btw,I assume you all are aware of the 190D-13 that is being restored to flyable condition here in the U.S. It is the sole remaining example of the D-13 and one of only a handful of D's left in the world.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Maj_Death
02-17-2004, 11:24 PM
I voted no because I would rather see more relevent versions added instead such as the Fw-190A6 or maybe an A2.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

Thrawn888
02-18-2004, 02:32 AM
ah finally someone who agrees an early 190A model should be implimented (A2)

i think itd be nice to have alongside the F2/F4 and in historical maps i believe the A2 would own the spitVB like in real life

WUAF_Badsight
02-18-2004, 02:37 AM
Har , Har ........ not if the FW pilot turns , he wont be "owning' nothing but an impact crater

Zen--
02-18-2004, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
I voted for the 2nd option. Really,there aren't many 30's/40's planes that I _wouldn't_ want for FB. The more the merrier! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Btw,I assume you all are aware of the 190D-13 that is being restored to flyable condition here in the U.S. It is the sole remaining example of the D-13 and one of only a handful of D's left in the world.

"Not all who wander are lost."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Interesting. Got any links or info on that? I'd LOVE to go see one and make a dope deal with the owner to sit in the cockpit....be like a dream come true.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

necrobaron
02-18-2004, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by necrobaron:
I voted for the 2nd option. Really,there aren't many 30's/40's planes that I _wouldn't_ want for FB. The more the merrier! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Btw,I assume you all are aware of the 190D-13 that is being restored to flyable condition here in the U.S. It is the sole remaining example of the D-13 and one of only a handful of D's left in the world.

"Not all who wander are lost."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Interesting. Got any links or info on that? I'd LOVE to go see one and make a dope deal with the owner to sit in the cockpit....be like a dream come true.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here: http://www.nwrain.net/~newtsuit/gosshawkunlimited/currentprojects/fw190d/fw190dprogress.htm

And here:http://pub157.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeexperten71774frm7.showMessage?topicID=2. topic

The thread in the 2nd link was started a while ago,but I believe still has current info. People who are actually involved in the project often post in that thread. Lot's of pics are posted,so it's a great and rare opportunity to see the actual innards of a "Wunder Waffen". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I also have some magazine articles on the restoration,but I'm not on my home comp so I can't scan them.

"Not all who wander are lost."

robban75
02-18-2004, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the links necrobaron! I just bought a book from Eagle Decals where "Yellow 10" is the main subject. It's funny(and sad) that a raving drunk chopped off the supercharger intake with an axe! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anyways, in 1998 me and a friend were driving around in Mesa and stopped outside the Champlin museum, unfortunatelly we didn't carry enough money for the entry fee, so we drove off. 6 years later it hits me that I was only a few meters away from "Yellow 10". I wish I had gone back the museum with some money. And look at me now, I'm on the other side the planet!! But I hope I make it back there some day! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.chello.se/unni/Dora-9-3.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Zen--
02-18-2004, 01:37 PM
Wow, thanks Necrobaron...Arizona is only a few thousand miles away actually, not too bad a drive at 150mph, which is the speed that I will be hurtling along at due to my excitement at seeing this bird in person.


Sweet!

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

necrobaron
02-18-2004, 10:06 PM
You'd only go 150mph? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I too would love to see this ultra-rare bird. It's quite interesting to follow "Yellow 10"'s progress. The current owner says he won't risk having it flown as long as he's the owner,due to the extreme rarity. The most they'll do is taxiing. I understand his reluctance,but I'd love to see this bird take to the air again.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Zen--
02-18-2004, 10:10 PM
Well honestly I would go faster, but my chevy pickup has a derated engine....apparently Z71's didn't perform very well in VVS service, so I can't hit the 200mph+ like they did in USAAF service.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

necrobaron
02-18-2004, 10:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zen--:
Well honestly I would go faster, but my chevy pickup has a derated engine....apparently Z71's didn't perform very well in VVS service, so I can't hit the 200mph+ like they did in USAAF service.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. I doubt my '95 F-150 could do much better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

Zen--
02-18-2004, 10:38 PM
lol

&lt;S!&gt;


I really do intend on making a photo run this summer to check it out, see if I can talk to the owner. Arizona isn't really that far at all, been meaning to head out west for some quiet time anyway. Plus my beloved soon to be wife is from India, and hasn't seen a lot of America, she'd love the trip.

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

necrobaron
02-18-2004, 10:48 PM
I wish I could go out west,but I've been pretty busy. I really don't know if the project is open to them public. Anyway,if you go,please take some nice pics. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."