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View Full Version : Combat In ACIV vs ACIII



SENS0_7
12-23-2013, 07:16 PM
Hello all. Just chiming in to point something out that I noticed while playing through Black flags story. I'm wondering if anyone else noticed it on their playthrough's as well. Was it just me, or was BF's fighting system really glitchy? I have instances where characters start jittering up and down really fast, audio that is lagging on certain attacks, and just an over all "unfinished" feeling. I went back to play through AC3 again and the combat is so much more fluid and put together.

Is is there any chance this will be patched? Because the amount of bugs in combat(especially when boarding ships!) is really annoying...

Anyone agree? Disagree?

adventurewomen
12-23-2013, 07:25 PM
I agree, I prefer AC3's combat it's more finished and has better combinations of controls. Connor's fighting style is better than Edwards, imo. I liked using the Tomahawk more than Edward's duel swords. :)

MnemonicSyntax
12-23-2013, 07:31 PM
I want to know how the heck you have such a large avatar.

DinoSteve1
12-23-2013, 07:38 PM
Yes I agree that AC3's combat was better, but I feel that ACIV's free running is tighter than ACIII.

SENS0_7
12-23-2013, 07:44 PM
I want to know how the heck you have such a large avatar.

Hahaha I honestly don't know. Made this account a long time ago, haven't logged into the forums since the AC2-ACB days.

pirate1802
12-23-2013, 08:27 PM
I have completely forgotten how AC3's combat was and how the cities felt like. Need to do a playthrough asap.

But anyhow, I was playing AC2 the other day and I think from this point onwards, combat started to go downhill in the series.

creamofpayne
12-23-2013, 09:06 PM
One thing is for sure, the kill/finish animations are way too long. They completely ruin the flow of a combat chain and it is quite unfortunate. Also, I often times am unable to enter 'combat mode', and will repeatedly be unable to counter incoming attacks because Edward refuses to pull his swords out.

MnemonicSyntax
12-23-2013, 09:17 PM
I agree, combat in 3 is smoother and just seems more fun.

However, this has made it much more fun. You can get stopped during combat as you can see, but if you don't, you can actually chain this too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs

reddragonhrcro
12-23-2013, 09:45 PM
Yeah noticed same, seems like the controls are not responsive in some moments which can be seen in counters clearly when it doesn't react to it.But anyway when it comes to the fighting animations i do like the look of the dual sword animations,especialy the finishers.

BK-110
12-23-2013, 10:22 PM
I have completely forgotten how AC3's combat was and how the cities felt like. Need to do a playthrough asap.

But anyhow, I was playing AC2 the other day and I think from this point onwards, combat started to go downhill in the series.

Indeed. Everyone always showers AC2 with praise, but it's combat system was, aside from being able to disarm enemies, a step backwards from AC1's. It just threw out AC1's offensive moves and completely focused on countering. Then ACB came along and threw in the much too easy kill streak system. In my opinion, the combat should have stayed as it was in AC1, although guarding should have been timing based. If you play AC1's combat aggressively, without just waiting for enemies to attack, it was much more fun and challenging than later systems. You could time attacks precisely to take down enemies, open their guard with a slower heavy attack, throw a throwing knife or use the hidden blade when an enemy was distracted and then counter when an enemy attacked you. It took timing and skill, especially against the higher-level enemies such as the Templars.

Everyone always said AC1's combat was boring and there was nothing to do but wait for the enemy to attack. Well, I say they played it wrong. What they describe is AC2's combat.

MIA SILENT
12-24-2013, 01:17 AM
ACIV' combat makes ACIII' look like MK. I went back and played AC3 the other day and was loving it. The way Connor fights makes me like him 10x more. He's brutal.

IWGCJoeCool
12-24-2013, 01:39 AM
Indeed. Everyone always showers AC2 with praise, but it's combat system was, aside from being able to disarm enemies, a step backwards from AC1's. It just threw out AC1's offensive moves and completely focused on countering. Then ACB came along and threw in the much too easy kill streak system. In my opinion, the combat should have stayed as it was in AC1, although guarding should have been timing based. If you play AC1's combat aggressively, without just waiting for enemies to attack, it was much more fun and challenging than later systems. You could time attacks precisely to take down enemies, open their guard with a slower heavy attack, throw a throwing knife or use the hidden blade when an enemy was distracted and then counter when an enemy attacked you. It took timing and skill, especially against the higher-level enemies such as the Templars.

Everyone always said AC1's combat was boring and there was nothing to do but wait for the enemy to attack. Well, I say they played it wrong. What they describe is AC2's combat.

absolutely!!!

playing AC1 right now, betwixt keeping the Kenway fleet active and waiting for the whales and convoys to return.

the combat in AC1 just feels more absorbing, and you need to be more proactive in a fight. fewer weapons but more ways to use them. much more need to go about things quietly without causing any disturbances too. seems they got all that right with the very first entry, and everything since has dumbed it down a notch. i'm even noticing i get some better finishing moves now.

JC

mikeyf1999
12-24-2013, 03:36 AM
I have a theory about that what if its because you are not in the animus 3.0 remember this is the abstergo animi which Rebecca stated she could do better than just something to think about

Megas_Doux
12-24-2013, 03:54 AM
Whereas I like AC IV´ combat better than everything seen during the Ezio´s games, It a step behind from AC III, that along with AC I is MY favorite in the series.

I know it is easy, but there is much more variety and fun, besides Connor is a machine, I just love all the brutal animations and how agile he is despite his size.

Fatal-Feit
12-24-2013, 05:10 AM
I have a theory about that what if its because you are not in the animus 3.0 remember this is the abstergo animi which Rebecca stated she could do better than just something to think about

That's not an legitimate excuse for Ubisoft to slack off.

mikeyf1999
12-28-2013, 07:57 AM
Who said I was giving that as a excuse

EchoFiveKilo
12-28-2013, 10:26 AM
ACIV' combat makes ACIII' look like MK. I went back and played AC3 the other day and was loving it. The way Connor fights makes me like him 10x more. He's brutal.

I could like Connor based solely on his fighting style, AC3s combat was the best. I like that something was always happening in fights, counter killing a guy, move on to the next, trip another guy, kill him, counter the next, double kill etc. AC3's combat is definitely the most fun + was the most detailed.

oliacr
12-28-2013, 10:33 AM
I could like Connor based solely on his fighting style, AC3s combat was the best. I like that something was always happening in fights, counter killing a guy, move on to the next, trip another guy, kill him, counter the next, double kill etc. AC3's combat is definitely the most fun + was the most detailed.
Totally agree with you

Fatal-Feit
12-28-2013, 10:40 AM
I could like Connor based solely on his fighting style, AC3s combat was the best. I like that something was always happening in fights, counter killing a guy, move on to the next, trip another guy, kill him, counter the next, double kill etc. AC3's combat is definitely the most fun + was the most detailed.

Too bad the game hinged combat throughout the adventure. Stealth was mostly broken and they often forced it upon you. =/

If the next game is going to be an improvement over AC:3's combat, I hope they keep the side-synch at a minimum like in AC:IV.

poptartz20
12-28-2013, 12:06 PM
Yes! I was just playing AC3 again myself! The combat system is just ... FUN.

with AC4 I find myself boarding a ship but not fighting just twirling my swords in hand!? even though there is an enemy directly in front of me. :| The combat has just been kinda glitchy, nothing that has been a game breaker.

roostersrule2
12-28-2013, 12:10 PM
AC3 has the best combat of the series.

Shahkulu101
12-28-2013, 12:19 PM
Loved AC3s combat to be honest, kinda took it for granted. It just flowed better, had a more concise system. The Gunners and grenadiers break the flow and slow the process in AC4 - doesn't add anything nor does it feel more challenging.

oliacr
12-28-2013, 12:40 PM
AC3 had the most fluid, flawless and best combat system, and it was easy. Though I really liked the ropedart and tomahawk combos. Best thus far.

dxsxhxcx
12-28-2013, 02:27 PM
Indeed. Everyone always showers AC2 with praise, but it's combat system was, aside from being able to disarm enemies, a step backwards from AC1's. It just threw out AC1's offensive moves and completely focused on countering. Then ACB came along and threw in the much too easy kill streak system. In my opinion, the combat should have stayed as it was in AC1, although guarding should have been timing based. If you play AC1's combat aggressively, without just waiting for enemies to attack, it was much more fun and challenging than later systems. You could time attacks precisely to take down enemies, open their guard with a slower heavy attack, throw a throwing knife or use the hidden blade when an enemy was distracted and then counter when an enemy attacked you. It took timing and skill, especially against the higher-level enemies such as the Templars.

Everyone always said AC1's combat was boring and there was nothing to do but wait for the enemy to attack. Well, I say they played it wrong. What they describe is AC2's combat.

if they had left combat as it was in AC1 and had made the enemies attack you faster in AC2 we would've had an almost perfect combat system, unfortunately I believe that gameplay-wise Ubisoft simply ignore that AC1 exist, I can't remember anything (gameplay-wise) from AC2 onwards that could make me say: hey, this remind me of AC1!


also IMO there is nothing wrong in rely on counters, the problem is when your enemies don't attack you fast enough to make this combat style fluid enough, forcing you to smash the attack button until you kill your target or they decide to fight back (what can take a lot of time)...

SENS0_7
01-01-2014, 08:25 AM
I agree, combat in 3 is smoother and just seems more fun.

However, this has made it much more fun. You can get stopped during combat as you can see, but if you don't, you can actually chain this too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiepNyZQFQs


Apparently I missed how to do those moves. The animation where he puts the gun in the dudes mouth is crazy! I've clocked in over 80 hours and never saw at least 3 or 4 of those moves.

Foyez5
01-01-2014, 01:31 PM
I would say that AC3 had the best combat it had a flow that you don't get in AC4, though the combat was challenging i still prefer AC3 over AC4.

SixKeys
01-01-2014, 02:11 PM
What bugs me the most is how visually jarring combat is. Ten dudes standing around doing absolutely nothing while the assassin slaughters them one by one. AC4 was a step backwards in this sense as enemies would attack more aggressively in AC3. Part of the problem is also that the enemies can't momentarily stun you like they did back in AC1. In AC1 guards could grab Altaïr and throw him on the ground or kick him so he would fall to his knees and be unable to do anything for a few seconds. This added tension to the fights and also got you pumped up: "Ooh, I'm gonna get you for that!"

The video someone posted above shows that guards are able to perform at least a couple of moves that temporarily disable Edward: tackling him while running and throwing grenades which, if hit, will throw Edward to the ground. Unfortunately, Edward recovers extremely quickly and the guards all politely wait for him to get up instead of using the moment to kick him while he's down or taunt him. I think adding something like this would be a simple yet working addition to combat. Guards should be able to kick Edward in the stomach, making him unable to fight back for a few secs, and instead of standing around doing nothing while waiting for him to get up, they could be pointing at him and laughing. There could also be a move where one guard "helps" the player up by holding his arms back while another pulls back his fist to punch him in the stomach. By performing the right move, the player could knock them both out before the blow hits, and return seamlessly to the flow of combat. This would give the devs an "excuse" to allow the player to get back more quickly while keeping the action going. Visually this would look more interesting and realistic, and when the player gets up and attacks the guards, it looks like they were simply distracted or over-confident instead of bored.

Bashilir
01-01-2014, 05:56 PM
What bugs me the most is how visually jarring combat is. Ten dudes standing around doing absolutely nothing while the assassin slaughters them one by one. AC4 was a step backwards in this sense as enemies would attack more aggressively in AC3. Part of the problem is also that the enemies can't momentarily stun you like they did back in AC1. In AC1 guards could grab Altaïr and throw him on the ground or kick him so he would fall to his knees and be unable to do anything for a few seconds. This added tension to the fights and also got you pumped up: "Ooh, I'm gonna get you for that!"

The video someone posted above shows that guards are able to perform at least a couple of moves that temporarily disable Edward: tackling him while running and throwing grenades which, if hit, will throw Edward to the ground. Unfortunately, Edward recovers extremely quickly and the guards all politely wait for him to get up instead of using the moment to kick him while he's down or taunt him. I think adding something like this would be a simple yet working addition to combat. Guards should be able to kick Edward in the stomach, making him unable to fight back for a few secs, and instead of standing around doing nothing while waiting for him to get up, they could be pointing at him and laughing. There could also be a move where one guard "helps" the player up by holding his arms back while another pulls back his fist to punch him in the stomach. By performing the right move, the player could knock them both out before the blow hits, and return seamlessly to the flow of combat. This would give the devs an "excuse" to allow the player to get back more quickly while keeping the action going. Visually this would look more interesting and realistic, and when the player gets up and attacks the guards, it looks like they were simply distracted or over-confident instead of bored.


I may have teared up a little bit from your post .

Pandassin
01-02-2014, 10:27 PM
I actually prefer AC4's combat. I prefer Edward's kill moves to Connor's, especially the hidden blade moves because damn, Edward is brutal with those.

Although I do think AC3's had more flow in it, especially because AC4's combat is always interrupted by grenades or muskets being fired at you.

silvermercy
01-02-2014, 11:01 PM
I prefer Connor's moves (and Haytham's) to Edward's - even though I really enjoyed Edward's fighting style, too.

I miss these fighting styles mostly, like this. And the brutality... lol

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me68l77iDy1qhykqc.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcoazt7mBS1qee6tdo1_500.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc696jgdgw1qee6tdo1_500.gif

http://www.abload.de/img/untitled5iadl5.gif

https://31.media.tumblr.com/70ee68a31429007c127fd48e9f6b929a/tumblr_myopjidZwt1t1wvl0o1_400.gif





Also, twirling tomahawk. I rest my case. :p
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcoxaff8eW1rds6ydo1_500.gif

oliacr
01-02-2014, 11:08 PM
Perfect. Really liked the swirling tomahawk :D Brutality is, Adéwalé did some moves which was very brutal :D Want to see more of them. Though the perfect choice for combat is tomahawk and ropedart, no way to beat that :D

aL_____eX
01-02-2014, 11:43 PM
I went back to ACIII today and have to admit, combat feels a bit better than in ACIV. After starting to play through the whole series again some weeks ago, I recognized again how huge the step from AC:R to ACIII actually was.

Killing animations in ACIII just look soooo badass! I believe ACIV was a very very little step back in terms of combat, which means, the AI feels more foolish, lack of aggressiveness etc. But the "new" gameplay mechanics that started with ACIII make the game feel so good and smooth to play. That was one smart step by Ubisoft in ACIII. Just wanted to state this! :)

mikeyf1999
01-03-2014, 12:51 AM
hey maybeover time the soldiers get more aggressive lol
The games are bout 60-70 years apart

inferno33222
01-03-2014, 02:54 AM
Indeed. Everyone always showers AC2 with praise, but it's combat system was, aside from being able to disarm enemies, a step backwards from AC1's. It just threw out AC1's offensive moves and completely focused on countering. Then ACB came along and threw in the much too easy kill streak system. In my opinion, the combat should have stayed as it was in AC1, although guarding should have been timing based. If you play AC1's combat aggressively, without just waiting for enemies to attack, it was much more fun and challenging than later systems. You could time attacks precisely to take down enemies, open their guard with a slower heavy attack, throw a throwing knife or use the hidden blade when an enemy was distracted and then counter when an enemy attacked you. It took timing and skill, especially against the higher-level enemies such as the Templars.

Everyone always said AC1's combat was boring and there was nothing to do but wait for the enemy to attack. Well, I say they played it wrong. What they describe is AC2's combat.

I really disagree about AC2's combat. You talk about the "offensive moves" in AC1, and I assume you are referring to when you tap Attack at a guard and after three or so well-timed hits you do a kill move. I just want to make sure you know that you can do the same thing in AC2. The only difference between AC1's combat and AC2's was that they widened the counter windows to avoid frustration and they added disarming and taunting. Also health potions, which was like super cheating IMO and I thought it started the trend of way-too-easy-AC, but AC2 and AC1's combat is very similar, and you can, I want to stress this, because you seem to be getting a lot of people to agree with you, you can play aggressively in AC2. I hope I don't appear aggressive or standoffish, because I don't mean to. I just want to give you the correct information.



In regards to AC4, I agree about it feeling a tad unresponsive or buggy. Nothing game-changing, but I notice it sometimes, especially on boardings. I think boardings are glitchy because there are so many NPCs in a small area. Some of the kill moves should be shortened so they game feels more responsive, but overall I think the animations are quite succinct. They did this a lot with AC3. ACR had really long animations, especially the hookblade ones. I think quick stabs would be better so you can accurately move between enemies.

Also, how does the counter against the captains or whoever even work? I mean the guys with the hats and capes, and I think they have shoulder pads. I don't even know if I press a button correctly. Sometimes they hurt me when I'm pretty sure I countered properly, then I just kick them in the groin. Anyone know what's up with this?

DinoSteve1
01-03-2014, 03:19 AM
AC3 has the best combat of the series.

Pity about the rest of the game.


Ugh what is wrong with me, why can't I resist.


I'm sorry.

EchoFiveKilo
01-03-2014, 06:25 AM
I prefer Connor's moves (and Haytham's) to Edward's - even though I really enjoyed Edward's fighting style, too.

I miss these fighting styles mostly, like this. And the brutality... lol

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me68l77iDy1qhykqc.gif

Connors was by far the best! Twirling tomahawk and the dagger flip animation, and the stance he has when fighting is just way too badass.

LoyalACFan
01-03-2014, 06:38 AM
I prefer Connor's moves (and Haytham's) to Edward's - even though I really enjoyed Edward's fighting style, too.

IMO they all had one weapon that had just incredibly badass animations. Haytham's sword kills were incredible, as were Connor's war club ones, and Edward's hidden blade animations are the best in the series.

EchoFiveKilo
01-03-2014, 06:54 AM
IMO they all had one weapon that had just incredibly badass animations. Haytham's sword kills were incredible, as were Connor's war club ones, and Edward's hidden blade animations are the best in the series.

I like connors more personally. Left hand reverse grip with right hand hidden blade makes for some awesome kills, theres more variety.