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View Full Version : ***Possible spoilers*** Lineage in the whole series



DeanOMiite
12-23-2013, 08:42 AM
So I just finished the AC4 single player story (I sunk my teeth into multiplayer first) and MAN was it fantastic! I really enjoyed the ride, the story was good, I enjoyed Edward as a flawed character who finds his way, and WOW the naval battles are fun.

But the game left me craving juuuuuust a little bit more, and it's something all AC games have neglected to pursue and it's always kinda baffled me. The game revolves around using the memories of ancestors, so obviously Desmond, Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Hatham...they're all related. With Haytham and Connor both being intregal parts of AC3, their relationship and their lineage is clear. And even with Altair, there's 400 years between him and Ezio and in ACB they address the idea of starting the Assassin's Order over again, so really I see Ezio as the founder of the order, moreso than Altair and/or Al Mualim or whoever came before them.

BUT, I think Ubi really missed an opportunity to bridge the gaps between the Auditore line to the Kenway line to the Miles line, but I REALLY felt that in this game since Edward, Haytham and Connor are all in direct succession...which is where my point lies. I played the entire game thinking Edward was going to turn out to be a deadbeat father and Haytham was going to resent him for it and in turn resent the assassin order, which is how he'd become a Templar. But the way the game wrapped up, it seems like they have a reasonable relationship and that Edward has left that life behind. So what I want to know is...how in the world did Haytham become a Templar???

I'm a huge fan of the AC series, gotta be my number one of all time, I've played and loved every game in the series (except ACR...screw you ACR) and the history of the game is so rich and I'd really just like gaps like that filled in. Maybe AC5 lol

LoyalACFan
12-23-2013, 09:11 AM
The game revolves around using the memories of ancestors, so obviously Desmond, Altair, Ezio, Connor, Edward, Hatham...they're all related.

No. Desmond is the only person in the world to be related by blood to all of these Assassins; that's why he's "special". He's the culmination of all of those bloodlines. Edward, Haytham, and Connor are the only ancestors who are related, since they're grandfather-father-son.

It could be a lot more complex than this, but let's say his bloodline pans out like this;

Desmond's mom's father- descended from Ezio
Desmond's mom's mother- descended from Altair
Desmond's dad's father- descended from Connor, so by default also descended from Haytham and Edward
Desmond's dad's mother- not related to any of them.

Thus, Desmond's mother is descended from Ezio and Altair, but not Connor. Desmond's father is descended from Connor, but not Ezio or Altair. So Desmond (and hypothetically any siblings he might have had) is the only person related to all of the playable ancestors.

LoyalACFan
12-23-2013, 09:14 AM
how in the world did Haytham become a Templar???

I really resent that they left this out of the game, but Edward was killed in battle about 13 years after he returned to England, and Haytham (like 9 years old at the time) was taken in by one of Edward's friends, who was secretly a Templar, and trained in that order.

This is all in a book called Forsaken, it's all about Haytham's life and it came out concurrently with AC3.

DarktheMagister
12-23-2013, 11:48 AM
POSSIBLE SPOILERS



How Haytham became a Templar? Well essentially... do you remember Reginald Birch? Haytham's "Boss" from the start of AC3? Yeah...its his fault.

Yeah, Forsaken. It's essentially Haytham's life story. Give it a read....I felt it explained quite a bit of Haytham's attitude. It also manages to explain all those characters Haytham knew in England before he leaves for America.

DeanOMiite
12-23-2013, 03:12 PM
No. Desmond is the only person in the world to be related by blood to all of these Assassins; that's why he's "special". He's the culmination of all of those bloodlines. Edward, Haytham, and Connor are the only ancestors who are related, since they're grandfather-father-son.

It could be a lot more complex than this, but let's say his bloodline pans out like this;

Desmond's mom's father- descended from Ezio
Desmond's mom's mother- descended from Altair
Desmond's dad's father- descended from Connor, so by default also descended from Haytham and Edward
Desmond's dad's mother- not related to any of them.

Thus, Desmond's mother is descended from Ezio and Altair, but not Connor. Desmond's father is descended from Connor, but not Ezio or Altair. So Desmond (and hypothetically any siblings he might have had) is the only person related to all of the playable ancestors.

i hadn't thought of it like that...i just always assumed they were related because I thought that was supposed to be the point. But I guess that makes sense.

Also, never heard of Forsaken, might wanna give that a try.I'd rather find that stuff out in game and not have to go the extra mile for it but I can deal with that. Is the book any good?

the Gears of War series actually did this too, leaving out plot details that were explained in the books and not really explaining what happened in the game. I read one of the books (there were several but I stopped after one because I didn't think it was very good) and just from that, there are things from the games that would really have fallen flat if I hadn't read the books, so it's like...I don't mind if the books ENHANCE the experience, but I don't think that they should be required to experience the full weight of the game.

LeVoyageur07
12-23-2013, 03:35 PM
No. Desmond is the only person in the world to be related by blood to all of these Assassins; that's why he's "special". He's the culmination of all of those bloodlines. Edward, Haytham, and Connor are the only ancestors who are related, since they're grandfather-father-son.

It could be a lot more complex than this, but let's say his bloodline pans out like this;

Desmond's mom's father- descended from Ezio
Desmond's mom's mother- descended from Altair
Desmond's dad's father- descended from Connor, so by default also descended from Haytham and Edward
Desmond's dad's mother- not related to any of them.

Thus, Desmond's mother is descended from Ezio and Altair, but not Connor. Desmond's father is descended from Connor, but not Ezio or Altair. So Desmond (and hypothetically any siblings he might have had) is the only person related to all of the playable ancestors.

That's a really good explanation.

I always wondered if Altair, Ezio, the Kenways were all related.
But you are right, they don't have to be, Desmond can be related to all of them from different family branches. Which is more likely.

IWGCJoeCool
12-24-2013, 01:23 AM
i hadn't thought of it like that...i just always assumed they were related because I thought that was supposed to be the point. But I guess that makes sense.

Also, never heard of Forsaken, might wanna give that a try.I'd rather find that stuff out in game and not have to go the extra mile for it but I can deal with that. Is the book any good?

the Gears of War series actually did this too, leaving out plot details that were explained in the books and not really explaining what happened in the game. I read one of the books (there were several but I stopped after one because I didn't think it was very good) and just from that, there are things from the games that would really have fallen flat if I hadn't read the books, so it's like...I don't mind if the books ENHANCE the experience, but I don't think that they should be required to experience the full weight of the game.

strongly agree with you...feeling the games should be canon, not aftermarket media and fictional off-shoots....and especially if it's bad stories or writing. i cant wait for the movie, because it has been pointed out that Ubisoft is holding tight to creative control...i dont see any of that for all the so-called written media stuff. any fan with some skills with words can go off in various directions, but if it aint in one of the games, it's "fiction", not canon.

Charles_Phipps
12-24-2013, 05:42 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Haytham Kenway's story gets told in a future installment. Sort of like how Revelation told the stuff from "The Secret Crusade" and Ezio's memories were incorporated into Brotherhood.


strongly agree with you...feeling the games should be canon, not aftermarket media and fictional off-shoots....and especially if it's bad stories or writing. i cant wait for the movie, because it has been pointed out that Ubisoft is holding tight to creative control...i dont see any of that for all the so-called written media stuff. any fan with some skills with words can go off in various directions, but if it aint in one of the games, it's "fiction", not canon.

Canon exists purely in the heads of fans as they're all fictional and we each have a different Edward Kenway in our heads. Still, Ubisoft says Forsaken is canon and it's incorporated into the game up to the point of having an in-game advertisement for it. However, it's not going to reach the same audience or the same level of penetration. Which is the downside of an Expanded Universe.

Still, if Arthur Conan Doyle made a movie about Sherlock Holmes death, I'd feel pretty silly saying it wasn't true because it wasn't a book.

pirate1802
12-24-2013, 05:49 AM
Right, I sometimes forget that The Secret Crusade came before Revelations.. :eek:

Charles_Phipps
12-24-2013, 05:53 AM
Right, I sometimes forget that The Secret Crusade came before Revelations.. :eek:

I admit, if the next game takes place in, say, China it'll be a little weird to have Haytham Kenway's memories show up.

;)

I can't say I was very fond of Black Flag's novelization, though. That didn't really add anything to Edward's character and took away a bunch, IMHO.