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Whatsmypassword
02-23-2004, 05:31 PM
I read here seome undounded statements regarding the use of Il-10 in the Korean campaign. I did a brief research on the Russian Internet so what I found on the topic Il-10s in the Korean War:

Whatsmypassword
02-23-2004, 05:31 PM
I read here seome undounded statements regarding the use of Il-10 in the Korean campaign. I did a brief research on the Russian Internet so what I found on the topic Il-10s in the Korean War:

Whatsmypassword
02-23-2004, 05:35 PM
Excerpt:
About 50 Il-10s were sent to Korea ... The most difficult combat with the participation of Il-10s took place on June 27, 1950 near Seoul when the North Koreans were trying to attack the airbase. The group of 8 Il-10s were intercepted and attacked by the group of 4 F-80 jets from 35 FBS. The Americans claimed that they shot down 4 Il-10s.

Comment:
In such a way ‚"brave‚"Ě yankees on their jets shot down only 4 overloaded prop Il-10s out of 8 flied by relatively inexperienced North Korean pilots without fighter escort. It was the heaviest loss sustained by Il-10s during the Korean war! You should remember that Il-10 was a 1944 modification of a prop plane initially created in 1939.

When the Americans realized how Il-10 were effective in doing their ground attack job and how ineffective were F-80s as ground attack aircraft the USAF started pulling hundreds of World War II-vintage F-51s out of mothballs for air-ground missions (though modifications to the F-80 were rapidly made).

Excerpt:
The successful experience of the use of Il-10s by Korean and Chinese pilots in the Korean war prompted the Chief Commander of the Soviet Army Air Force, Marshal P.F. Zhigarev to write a letter to SV Ilyushin on October 1950 where he proposed to resume the mass production of Il-10s with a engine AM-42 as a VVS ground attack aircraft ‚...

In August 1952 a new Il-10M passed the state testing ‚... In 1952-1954 two aircraft building plants made 146 IL-10M ‚... By 1955 the Soviet VVS had 1700 Il-10 and Il10M and 130 fighter-bomber MIG-15bis.

Comment:
So all assertions that Il-10s were ineffective and shot down by dozens during the Korean war and as a result were withdrawn are flawed and are not based on real facts.

SkyChimp
02-23-2004, 06:55 PM
Gee whiz, my understanding was that the F-80 was used in the ground attack roll after the F-86 was introduced into the war, as the F-80 was no longer suitable for combat against the MiG-15. And that the P-51 was used becauseu they were close, and available.

And who claims IL-10s were ineffective, or that they were shot down by the dozens? USAF claims for the entire war are 6 IL-10s and 1 IL-12.

Golly, it's as if you put no thought whatsoever into your post.

Regards,
SkyChimp
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ElAurens
02-23-2004, 09:02 PM
And with that "brave" comment, I'd say your political agenda is all too clear....

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

Whatsmypassword
02-23-2004, 09:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
And with that "brave" comment, I'd say _your_ political agenda is all too clear....

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean if I am for Kerry rather than for GWB? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nope. Actually, no offense meant but how you figured out my political agenda? Do not take so seriously an ironic remark about the air combat between 4 jets and 8 prop planes.

Quite apart from this I think that Il-10 can sucessfully be used nowadays in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Korolov
02-23-2004, 09:25 PM
Too vulnerable to AK-47s and the like. Damned oil cooling system.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Whatsmypassword
02-23-2004, 09:40 PM
Common, AK-47 7,62 mm was not enough to strike down even Il-2. The Il-10s armour could sustain up to 20 mm cannon shells.

Korolov
02-23-2004, 09:42 PM
Not the oil cooler. Trust me on that.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Menthol_moose
02-23-2004, 09:46 PM
It would be enough if it copped it up the oil cooler.

Apaches were brought down in Gulf 2.0 to small arms fire.



Eh, mates! What's the good word?

AJRobson
02-23-2004, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Whatsmypassword:


Quite apart from this I think that Il-10 can sucessfully be used nowadays in Iraq and Afghanistan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent idea! And let Russian pilots fly them.

Of course, just WHO would they be used against? The Taliban? Iraqi's?

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MandMs
02-23-2004, 09:50 PM
The Frogfoot was used in Afganistan, was it not?



I eat the red ones last.

Whatsmypassword
02-23-2004, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AJRobson:
Excellent idea! And let Russian pilots fly them.

Of course, just WHO would they be used against? The Taliban? Iraqi's? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Russian pilots fly SU-25s that are a bit more modern aircraft http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But without doubts Sturmovicks cannot be used thsese days against ground troops with modern AA such as the Russian Shilka and so on.

p1ngu666
02-24-2004, 10:50 AM
il10 had oil cooler in wings? not underneath i thought..

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JtD
02-24-2004, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You should remember that Il-10 was a 1944 modification of a prop plane initially created in 1939.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is just not true. It was an evolution of the original IL-2 concept but had hardly anything in common with it's predecessor. Calling it a modification is just like calling the Hellcat a Wildcat modification.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And who claims IL-10s were ineffective, or that they were shot down by the dozens? USAF claims for the entire war are 6 IL-10s and 1 IL-12.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about AAA claims?


I also think the IL-10's oil cooler was not as vulnerable as on the IL-2.

Bremspropeller
02-24-2004, 01:27 PM
Hell...shootin' at IL-10s with the .50 must be somethin like

"Gosh...the rounds are comin back !" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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"Once upon the time..there was an aircraft that ruled the skies of Europe..."
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Zyzbot
02-24-2004, 01:33 PM
Apparently not...If you read the report of the P-80's shooting down 4 out of 8 Il-10s it says it was done on a single pass and they were armed with 50's.

MandMs
02-24-2004, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zyzbot:
Apparently not...If you read the report of the P-80's shooting down 4 out of 8 Il-10s it says it was done on a single pass and they were armed with 50's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the P-80s only had 6 .50 mgs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif



I eat the red ones last.

woofiedog
02-24-2004, 02:22 PM
It seems that these IL-10's were never flown againest any F-80's with Golden Bee-Bee Cannon.
Only a small flock of these aircraft ever made it to the front lines, as only a few were needed to do the get the Job Done. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jensenpark
02-24-2004, 02:40 PM
this has been discussed previously on these forums...in response to a question I posted a while back asking about the Il-10 performance in Korea...

from the links to sites provided it appeared the il-10 was yanked pretty fast as it was too vulnerable against the opposition there...whether improved AAA or the jets.

Whatsmypassword: what an odd, little post. Can't quite figure out what you are trying to accomplish...push the Il-10 or bash the US...

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