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View Full Version : SMALLER Improvements For ACV



Wolfmeister1010
12-13-2013, 10:01 PM
Other than the main core elements such as parkour, combat, and stealth, there are also some LITTLE things that should be attended to for the next AC.

1. Blood: no more excuses. We are in the next gen, so it is about time that the dev team programs in blood that doesn't look like confetti. I know that it is very difficult to program blood, and no game gets it perfect. Even Witcher 3's blood looks less than amazing. But jesus the blood in AC is and has been terrible. I want to see the wounds where the enemy was shot or sliced. I want the blood to actually puddle like it does in real life. This is LONG overdue. And now that we are in the next generation..it is time.

2. Rope Dart: I feel like there should be more uses for the ropedart. For example, we should be able to use the ropedart in combat for different things. Like, if we push foreword and Y/Triangle, then we pull them to the ground like normal, but if we just push Y or maybe hold it down..then we can pull the target in for human shields, combos, and attacks. Like, it would not be an insta kill, but rather you pull them closer to start your attacks. IDK. It just needs a tune up. Maybe press Y really close to a guard and use it is wire to choke out and enemy.

3. Moving Haystacks and Carts: This is something that was missing from AC4! I am very surprised they removed it, as it was a nice little aesthetic thing that made the cities more lively.

4. Animations:....I mean..come on. Make the knife animations go with the knife, the sword animations go with the swords, and the tomahawk animations go with the tomahawk. Please for the love of G_d do not mix and match anymore..as using the double swords with tomahawk animations was brutal and shows extreme laziness on ubi Montreal's part.

5. NPCs: Something that was vastly improved in AC4 but should be taken even further. Make the NPCs have MORE conversations so the streets never feel quiet. Give them more jobs to do, using actually props, like newspapers, cigars, stuff like that. Some of this stuff is in AC4, but not enough. It would be REALLY awesome to see some civilians get in a sword or pistol battle randomly. Not all random encounters have to be player interactable. Just look at RDR. There are some random encounters where you just watch it happen.

6. Environmental response: there are some things that need some touch ups. They are very small things, but still. These things include like making the water and bodies react to gunshots, add more destructible environments.

7. Crouching: needs to be part of a whole system to work like Darby said. There are a few buttons on the AC4 control scheme that are completely open to being a crouch button, like RB (location info) and LB (not usable on land for anything). Would open up new stealth opportunities like crouching behind lower cover, doing over cover assassinations like ME3. And yeah people would react to it like running or parkour. That doesn't mean it should't be in there.

8. Horses: If they do decide to go back to horses again...please..for the love of G_d,make them actually work.

Well that is all I can think of. Post anything you might want to add or respond to mine. Thanks everyone.

Shahkulu101
12-13-2013, 10:17 PM
- Hood toggle
- ability to interact with objects in the envirnoment
- more realistic working poison (berserk looks and works rather ridiculously)

Wolfmeister1010
12-13-2013, 10:58 PM
- Hood toggle
- ability to interact with objects in the envirnoment
- more realistic working poison (berserk looks and works rather ridiculously)

I never use the berserk dart. It is cheating. If I wanted to get the whole plantation involved in a bloodbath, I might as well get involved myself.

Shahkulu101
12-13-2013, 11:02 PM
I never use the berserk dart. It is cheating. If I wanted to get the whole plantation involved in a bloodbath, I might as well get involved myself.

I avoid using the blowpipe unless I'm spotted by the gunners eagle-like line of sight.

Kagurra
12-14-2013, 12:35 AM
- Hood toggle
- ability to interact with objects in the envirnoment
- more realistic working poison (berserk looks and works rather ridiculously)

All this. I also agree with everything in OP, except, and this might be trivial but I've pointed it out many times, LB is used to reload. It is not a button that has no control attached to it while on land. So you can't put crouch on that. I suggest clicking in on the left stick (whatever you want it to be on PC) for crouching, as who really uses the "center camera" feature? Even though it's a third person game it's really not necessary. I also don't really mind if they don't do that many additions to the rope dart. Maybe just a couple.

DarktheMagister
12-14-2013, 01:11 AM
- Return of Outfit Racks: I'm a man who enjoys a pimped out display room.
- Named Base NPC's: It gives the Player Base a "homely" feel.
- Unique Recruits/Assassin "Brothers": Even if the Brotherhood mechanic doesn't come back...I still want the other Assassins to be more than nameless copies of eachother.
- Bombs: Bomb Crafting...worked for me. I don't know why it went away.
- Huntable Birds: Cause I have a gun up my sleeve...why can't I kill that game fowl?

DinoSteve1
12-14-2013, 02:34 AM
Take the timer off the sleep dart irl if you got hit with a sleep dart you would be out for hours.

SixKeys
12-14-2013, 03:01 AM
Take the timer off the sleep dart irl if you got hit with a sleep dart you would be out for hours.

This means you could just sleep dart everyone in the vicinity and not have them wake up at all. It would take away any challenge the game has left.

I actually don't want named NPCs. This is AC, not Skyrim. The Homestead already proved it wouldn't make me feel any more of a connection to them even if they had names and occupations.

I'm kind of bored of the rope dart already, TBH. It's not an essential tool and shouldn't become a forced staple of the series.

Moving haycarts: honestly they weren't in AC3 as much as I thought they would be. I only ran into them less than a dozen times in my two playthroughs. From a technical standpoint I guess it's an impressive mechanic (at least according to the AC3 devs), but I didn't miss it at all in AC4.

Small things that I would like to see added are generally things that improve the atmosphere and immersion. Things like NPCs reacting to weather and time of day - running for shelter when it starts to rain and going inside when it starts to get dark. There needs to be more of a difference between night and day in these games. I definitely agree about more props like newspapers, pipes, pocket watches etc. I love me some good stock animations, like in AC2 when a guy would sometimes act all annoyed and look at his shoes like he just stepped in something nasty.

They should also bring back the mechanic from AC1 where even common people would react negatively to you if they suspected you of wrongdoing. If you climbed a building in front of a beggar, they would throw rocks at you and scream "Troublemaker!". We've had vigilantes that react to our positive actions and can be recruited to help us, but there should also be vigilantes that work for the law enforcement. Common people who will try to block you or hold you down when chased. Unlike with guards, we can't kill civilians, so we would either have to avoid them (freerun over them) or distract them with money or something.

Wolfmeister1010
12-14-2013, 03:22 AM
This means you could just sleep dart everyone in the vicinity and not have them wake up at all. It would take away any challenge the game has left.

I actually don't want named NPCs. This is AC, not Skyrim. The Homestead already proved it wouldn't make me feel any more of a connection to them even if they had names and occupations.

I'm kind of bored of the rope dart already, TBH. It's not an essential tool and shouldn't become a forced staple of the series.

Moving haycarts: honestly they weren't in AC3 as much as I thought they would be. I only ran into them less than a dozen times in my two playthroughs. From a technical standpoint I guess it's an impressive mechanic (at least according to the AC3 devs), but I didn't miss it at all in AC4.

Small things that I would like to see added are generally things that improve the atmosphere and immersion. Things like NPCs reacting to weather and time of day - running for shelter when it starts to rain and going inside when it starts to get dark. There needs to be more of a difference between night and day in these games. I definitely agree about more props like newspapers, pipes, pocket watches etc. I love me some good stock animations, like in AC2 when a guy would sometimes act all annoyed and look at his shoes like he just stepped in something nasty.

They should also bring back the mechanic from AC1 where even common people would react negatively to you if they suspected you of wrongdoing. If you climbed a building in front of a beggar, they would throw rocks at you and scream "Troublemaker!". We've had vigilantes that react to our positive actions and can be recruited to help us, but there should also be vigilantes that work for the law enforcement. Common people who will try to block you or hold you down when chased. Unlike with guards, we can't kill civilians, so we would either have to avoid them (freerun over them) or distract them with money or something.

Lol have you played AC4? Civillians do react to the weather!! They put their hands above their heads and jog

Sigv4rd
12-14-2013, 03:35 AM
-Removable weapons, load-out customization...
-Better Hunting (No ****ing QTEs!) Also being able to damage pelts again...
-New Animations (Assuming we are playing a new character...)
-Quicker Pick-pocketing
-Dye options for every outfit... Also dying Edward's Assassin robes black should not be considered an outfit...
-Less cinematic cams...
-Sheng Biao Rope Darts, Rather than being used as over glorified grappling hooks the rope dart should actually function as a rope dart... Generally more weapon variety.
-Useful Headquarters...
-Random Endless Side Missions
-Seasons
-Better Horses, alternatively elephants, alternatively t-rex...
-Assassin Turkey

pirate1802
12-14-2013, 05:56 AM
- Named Base NPC's: It gives the Player Base a "homely" feel.

This. This time around my base felt I don't know.. distant. Loved AC3's Homestead to death.

Also bring back the haggling beggars/minstrels/kids. Surely I'm not the only one to miss them? Yes they are annoying, but they give off the familiar AC feel and its very fun when you finally make them shut their gob and send them running :D

SixKeys
12-14-2013, 06:09 AM
Lol have you played AC4? Civillians do react to the weather!! They put their hands above their heads and jog

Not all the time. I only saw them do it twice, I think, so I thought they must have been story-related incidents.



Also bring back the haggling beggars/minstrels/kids. Surely I'm not the only one to miss them? Yes they are annoying, but they give off the familiar AC feel and its very fun when you finally make them shut their gob and send them running :D

Beggars, yes. MInstrels were getting kind of old. Kids, only if they're not so ******* annoying. WOP WOP WOP! WOH-HOH-HOOOOAH!!

Wolfmeister1010
12-14-2013, 06:26 AM
Not all the time. I only saw them do it twice, I think, so I thought they must have been story-related incidents.



Beggars, yes. MInstrels were getting kind of old. Kids, only if they're not so ******* annoying. WOP WOP WOP! WOH-HOH-HOOOOAH!!

Nope. Happened to me bunch of times, few times in kingston, first time randomly in Grand Cayman. Happens everywhere. You just need to look.

Kagurra
12-14-2013, 06:42 AM
I hated the kids. So. Much. It's okay to mass murder guards that are talking about going home to their family, but if you so even think about pointing your gun at the children actively trying to get you noticed and killed, you're a horrible person and we're not going to let you pull that trigger. Not that I expect them to do it in AC, because now you can't even stab civilians.

Wolfmeister1010
12-14-2013, 06:48 AM
I hated the kids. So. Much. It's okay to mass murder guards that are talking about going home to their family, but if you so even think about pointing your gun at the children actively trying to get you noticed and killed, you're a horrible person and we're not going to let you pull that trigger. Not that I expect them to do it in AC, because now you can't even stab civilians.

Its been like that since AC2. You want a game where you can mindlessly murder civillians all day? Go play GTA

I respect ubisoft for not bending underneath the enormous amount of heat they get from people who want to be able to kill civilians without penalty.

Kagurra
12-14-2013, 06:57 AM
Its been like that since AC2. You want a game where you can mindlessly murder civillians all day? Go play GTA

Nah, it wasn't like that in AC2. You could kill a civilian two times, then wait a bit, and then repeat. They deserve it sometimes anyways, no need to get on a high horse. I specifically remember throwing a lot of swords into a lot of people's faces in AC:B. It was absolutely hilarious. Even in AC3, where the moderation was heavy, you could kill the civilians in any way you wanted like before. You just had to be "zoomed" in with the left trigger, which took more work. Now in AC4, you can only shoot them and kill them with explosives and such, and I'm not going to run around to find a barrel just to kill some random dude. Besides, neither of those methods are silent, so you can't do it without alerting enemies like before.

Also, GTAV sucked. No thanks.

It's stupid to limit what the player can do in a sandbox environment just because you don't like it. Next thing we'll see is the devs will take away another random ability the player has, like picking up dead bodies and throwing them off a roof onto random people for the ragdoll lulz. Oh wait, they've already totally neutered the crowd's natural reaction to dead bodies. Hurrr.

Don't try to tell me that this isn't funny and you're better than that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KXTQFawBEc

pirate1802
12-14-2013, 07:15 AM
B..b..but it was fun to kill a guard horribly before a kid and traumatize him for the rest of his miserable little life. And minstrels man,, it never gets old beating them to death with their own lutes. Btw I noticed civilians cover their heads as well in rains. Also when you throw a dead body to the streets down below, some would come check them and others would run away. I think before everyone would just run away? Before the courtesans/dancers there would be some males laughing and cheering them, and a few women would come and shoo them away lol. Never noticed these before, just noticing them now on my second playthough.

Btw I also miss beating people with fishing rods :(


Also, GTAV sucked. No thanks.

Agreed.

DinoSteve1
12-14-2013, 10:28 AM
This means you could just sleep dart everyone in the vicinity and not have them wake up at all. It would take away any challenge the game has left.
*snip


I should have also said a better stealth system where you would need those sleep darts.

Thirsty_panda
12-14-2013, 10:43 AM
How about making it so we can't do air assassinations from ridiculous heights anymore? Does it not bother anyone else that a jump that would ordinarily kill you, or should kill you rather, is perfectly fine to assassinate from?

pirate1802
12-14-2013, 11:03 AM
In a world where you jump from ridiculous heights and land safely in a bunch of leaves... no, not really. :p

Shahkulu101
12-14-2013, 01:52 PM
B..b..but it was fun to kill a guard horribly before a kid and traumatize him for the rest of his miserable little life. And minstrels man,, it never gets old beating them to death with their own lutes. Btw I noticed civilians cover their heads as well in rains. Also when you throw a dead body to the streets down below, some would come check them and others would run away. I think before everyone would just run away? Before the courtesans/dancers there would be some males laughing and cheering them, and a few women would come and shoo them away lol. Never noticed these before, just noticing them now on my second playthough.

Btw I also miss beating people with fishing rods :(



Agreed.

How would you know it sucked? PC boiy

pirate1802
12-14-2013, 03:22 PM
How would you know it sucked? PC boiy

The same way people know CoD sucks without playing it.

Shahkulu101
12-14-2013, 03:28 PM
The same way people know CoD sucks without playing it.

Except everybody licks R* hole without question...

pirate1802
12-14-2013, 03:50 PM
Except everybody licks R* hole without question...

Indeed, a tragedy.

I-Like-Pie45
12-14-2013, 10:01 PM
Gaiz give me money

roostersrule2
12-14-2013, 11:20 PM
The same way people know CoD sucks without playing it.But COD doesn't really suck, it's just the same game from 2007.

pacmanate
12-14-2013, 11:47 PM
Gaiz give me money

Nice try

DarktheMagister
12-15-2013, 02:05 AM
I've like R*'s other properties....but GTA was never my thing. Absolutely no interest.

Sushiglutton
12-15-2013, 02:23 AM
1) Oh yes please :cool:!
2) Ropedart is an awesome weapon that I hope will stay. But like you said it could have many more uses. I wouldn't mind being able to throw it around a beam so you can climb/swing or similar. I really like your idea of mixing it with the human shield (can this be done allready, haven't experimented with it). Other ideas would be to be able to use it to trip horses, or connect an enemy to an explosive barrel (hehe just cause inspiration :) ).
3) It made sense with no horses that they removed this. No biggie imo. It was a fine idea though.
4) I think having less weapons is amore solid solution and instead focus on more moves. Also there are some bugs when it comes to enemies body positions. Frequently you will choke a guard whos head is resting on your stomach, or stab a sword through their hat.
5) More is always better, but this obv takes a tremendous effort and needs to be redone very year due to era/language etc.
6) The freeaiming was a nice addition, but obv it's very primitive compared to dedicated TPS games. Again the more of this they can implement of impact physics, the better, but I don't think it's top priority.
7) I'm actually leaning more and more towards crouching not being that needed. I really like the stalking zone concept and it kind of makes crouching redundant.
8) Yeah they should not include horses again unless they are rebuilt imo. I think next gen will help as they will be able to stream the world faster.

Sigv4rd
12-15-2013, 05:15 AM
-Alternate between different assassination animations: The same dual assassination gets old after a while, some variation would be nice...
-Time of day control: An option to change the time of day at will would be nice... Perhaps they could implement beds that skip time forward (like RDR/GTA) or maybe hiding spaces could have a wait option, skipping time forward...
-Seamless diving: AC4 made fantastic use of this in the smuggler dens, please keep this feature!
-Remove the grenadier!: OMG I hate the way they throw bombs every five seconds!!! Please just make them heavies again!
-More side missions: I loved the assassination contracts and Templar hunts, but I felt some of the side content felt a bit shallow (animus fragments). Pirate recruitment missions were fun and could easily translate over as save citizen missions minus the recruitment.

DarktheMagister
12-15-2013, 06:30 AM
Animus Fragments pretty much existed only to promote parkour elements. I would be fine with that if there was something you got by grabbing them all.... like an outfit...or a special codex entry....or a video clip.

AherasSTRG
12-15-2013, 02:15 PM
No crouching, please...

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 02:18 PM
Agreed. Contextual crouching? Yesh. But crouching by pressing a button? Neh..

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 02:50 PM
Agreed. Contextual crouching? Yesh. But crouching by pressing a button? Neh..

Why not? Crouching decreases the chances of being detected when sneaking up on someone. It’s actually stupid not to have a crouch button in a stealth game like this. Many situations seem ridiculous without crouching, like casually walking behind guards in a restricted zone. No one in this world would (in a real and dangerous situation) try to sneak up on someone without crouching. It just doesn’t compute. Everyone knows they’re less likely to be spotted if they crouch, whether behind cover (to avoid visual detection) or to quietly approach someone (to avoid sound and sensory detection).
Seriously, stealth needs both crouching and shadow mechanics, or else it feels empty and even stupid sometimes. The only reason why crouch isn’t required in AC so far is because the sound detection system is completely unrealistic and stupid except for AC4 BF where it is almost non-existent.
Crouch and shadow stealth offer a new and crucial layer to stealth, they make it more interesting and strategic and cover most of its current flaws.

So yeah, AC needs a crouch button ASAP.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 03:08 PM
^Like I said, contextual crouching. It looks even more stupid to be crouching right at the middle of the street. Crouching only hides you when you are hiding behind something. Otherwise, in plain sight you're not really making yourself difficult to spot by crouching. And I don't need to worry about sticky covers pushing buttons to move in and out of cover/crouch. Tomb Raider does it perfectly. Something like your character automatically assumes a more concealed stance when entering restricted zones rather than moving about upright. So yeah crouch of that style, yes, button-oriented crouch? I'd rather listen to a justin beiber song.

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 03:42 PM
^Like I said, contextual crouching. It looks even more stupid to be crouching right at the middle of the street. Crouching only hides you when you are hiding behind something. Otherwise, in plain sight you're not really making yourself difficult to spot by crouching. And I don't need to worry about sticky covers pushing buttons to move in and out of cover/crouch. Tomb Raider does it perfectly. Something like your character automatically assumes a more concealed stance when entering restricted zones rather than moving about upright. So yeah crouch of that style, yes, button-oriented crouch? I'd rather listen to a justin beiber song.

Obviously youíre not going to crouch in plain sight, unless you want to look ridiculous.
This contextual crouching youíre suggesting wonít work for AC because it is open world.
What if you want to take down a guard silently in free-roam? Assuming the game actually has a sound detection system you canít just run up to the target or else he will hear and sense you before you even get close. A crouch button allows you to approach people without them noticing. When youíre in the middle of the street you use social stealth, when you are hidden you use shadow/light stealth, crouch and other stealth mechanics that allow you to manipulate the situation (such as tricking guards in doing what we want them to do), etc. Any proper stealth game has this, only those who are more concerned with naval and how to please the market forget their own game.
Crouch is crucial to anyone who wants to be stealthy and since this is an open world game, you canít just force the assassin to take a more stealth stance in restricted zones automatically. And what about players who want to take a more combat focused approach, will they be forced to see their assassin crouch while in a restricted zone? The player should always have the option. Donít you think navigation is automatic enough?

So you see, a crouch button is a requirement for stealth to progress. A crouch button is crucial to any game who claims to have stealth as their core mechanic and especially if the game is open world.

Iíll also add that this isnít a minor detail that would only suit some specific situations. How many times have you approached an enemy using their blind spot, for instance? Itís preposterous to imagine you can just casually walk up to someone and they wonít even notice you and even worse that you can run and jump right behind them.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 03:59 PM
What if you want to take down a guard silently in free-roam?

Then add a tiptop button. If you are around cover you can already hide. If you are in his sight, crouching won't help much. If you're behind him, it won't matter.


Assuming the game actually has a sound detection system you can’t just run up to the target or else he will hear and sense you before you even get close.

Yes, much rather add a sound system allowing you to walk silently than a crouch button.


A crouch button allows you to approach people without them noticing.

Again, depends on the situation. When you're in a busy area, its not that unrealistic that you run behind a guard and he doesn't notice you. If you're in a deserted/restricted area a silent-walk button would be much more useful that a crouch button.


Any proper stealth game has this, only those who are more concerned with naval and how to please the market forget their own game.

Right.


and since this is an open world game, you can’t just force the assassin to take a more stealth stance in restricted zones automatically.

Which is why I'm not saying you should autocrouch anywhere when you move behind cover. In only restricted zones. They're called that for a reason.


And what about players who want to take a more combat focused approach, will they be forced to see their assassin crouch while in a restricted zone? The player should always have the option.

Then they run up to the guards and attack them. Its essentially the same as now. Why am I being forced to crouch while entering a planted area? I want to fight!


Don’t you think navigation is automatic enough?

Apart from autograbbing higher ledges, nope. But then what do I know, I'm a casual.


It’s preposterous to imagine you can just casually walk up to someone and they won’t even notice you and even worse that you can run and jump right behind them.

More of an issue of sound detection than crouching I think. Crouching makes you more likely to make noise. People crouch to make themselves less visible, not make less noise.

What I'm saying is that all the things you said are no doubt true. But I think they'll be better solved by making couching contextual and having a dedicated tiptoe button instead.

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 04:32 PM
Perhaps your contextual crouch could work but, in my mind, I think a crouch button would be a lot better. The only way to find out is to actually make AC games with these features.

Anyway, Iím pretty sure you move more silently (with the right outfit) while crouched. Games seem to back me up on this one. Thief is an obvious example but even Skyrim says you are much more silent when crouched. And it makes sense.
For example, imagine there is someone behind you in this moment. Now, if that person is standing straight or walking casually, donít you think you could sense her (hear the person breathing, feel the atmosphere getting heavier, perhaps even detect an unknown smell, hear the movement). On the other hand, if the person is crouched he is more distant from your sensory area, your head (eyes, nose, earsÖ) which makes it more difficult for you to detect his presence. Also, a person doesnít keep the head completely still and, a slight rotation would be enough to spot anyone standing still while, someone crouched would be less likely to be detected. Anyway, Iím just stating the obvious and Iím sure there are other explanations, but for some reason, stealth games seem to think the same way and Iím pretty sure this is how thieves and other masters of stealth act in real life.
But I still think the addition of a crouch button would really improve the experience, especially if there is shadow/light stealth and an improved sound detection system.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 04:43 PM
On the other hand, if the person is crouched he is more distant from your sensory area, your head (eyes, nose, earsÖ) which makes it more difficult for you to detect his presence. Also, a person doesnít keep the head completely still and, a slight rotation would be enough to spot anyone standing still while, someone crouched would be less likely to be detected.

Which is what I was saying, crouching makes you a smaller target obviously, but it doesnt make you make less sound. Obviously you'd see a silent standing guy easier than a crouching noisier guy, but what I was saying that, if you compare two situations where you have no visual input from the guy stalking you, then standing upright and tiptoeing makes more sense.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 05:34 PM
Which is what I was saying, crouching makes you a smaller target obviously, but it doesnt make you make less sound. Obviously you'd see a silent standing guy easier than a crouching noisier guy, but what I was saying that, if you compare two situations where you have no visual input from the guy stalking you, then standing upright and tiptoeing makes more sense.

What about the aesthetic value? Sure, you wouldnt crouch in a crowd of people. But it is much less ridiculous looking than climbing up a building in view of a crowd of people. It LOOKS stupid for the player to stand up all the time when trying to be stealthy. Making each small wall a contexual crouching area would be extremely difficult to program, considering it is open world, but adding a crouch button would be simple as ****. I mea, in AC4, other NPCs like even ****ing stede bonnet do it, why can't we? They do it often in stealth missions, where they stealthily crouch and follow, while we are stuck standing straight up like an idiot? I'm sorry, but arent we supposed to be the ASSASSIN here? ****ing Stede Gentleman nigel west ****ens pirate is more stealthy than we are. We already have the animation, a few free buttons, and jesus why would giving more control over the character be a bad thing? Sure maybe it would make more sense to tiptoe or whataver, but why would having the OPTION to crouch down at least a little bit be so bad?

I understand the point younare trying to make, but when it comes down to it, adding the crouch button would do FAR from harm to the game. A lot of it is for simple ****ing aesthetic value. EVERY SINGLE OTHER STEALTH game, even non stealth games like skyrim, have a crouch button. Why the hell can't ubi listen to the fans for once, stop being so stubborn, and add it in? Or AT LEAST do your contextual crouching idea. I think a crouching button would be better but jesus your idea is a good start.

If they dont put crouching in AC5... I mean. AT LEAST fix the damn detection rules so we can do the "crouching between stalking zones" thing.

It is BEYOND overdue, and they KNOW it. Whether we want a croucn button, or greater variety of contexual crouching like you, WE ALL, or at least the VAST MAJORItY, want SOME sort of god damn crouching system.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 06:26 PM
Sure, you wouldnt crouch in a crowd of people. But it is much less ridiculous looking than climbing up a building in view of a crowd of people.

Depends, we aren't climbing buildings to assassinate, nor to blend in.


It LOOKS stupid for the player to stand up all the time when trying to be stealthy.

Not really. In crowded areas most of the time you'd spend in blend groups during stealth missions, or in restricted areas I'd be in stalking zones. Imagine you tailing a few guys through the streets, crouching like Bonnet. lawl


Making each small wall a contexual crouching area would be extremely difficult to program,

How exactly? Isn't something like this already in the game?


I mea, in AC4, other NPCs like even ****ing stede bonnet do it,

And didn't he look like an idiot crouching behind those guards in full view? Thats exactly my point. He stood out despite crouching, while Edward blended with people and disappeared.


They do it often in stealth missions, where they stealthily crouch and follow, while we are stuck standing straight up like an idiot?

You'd notice they always couch while in stalking zones only, or they're idiots like Bonnet.


I'm sorry, but arent we supposed to be the ASSASSIN here?

Yes and assassins are supposed to use social stealth not LoS stealth necessarily. In that respect I think a dedicated silentwalk button would suit the game more than a dedicated crouch button.


and jesus why would giving more control over the character be a bad thing? Sure maybe it would make more sense to tiptoe or whataver, but why would having the OPTION to crouch down at least a little bit be so bad?

Because, when you have a dedicated crouch/cover button, you always have to go over to a wall, take position and press the crouch button. Atleast that's how it happens in most other TPS/stealth-cover games. I find that system very problematic. AC's corner cover system is perfect. Do that for other types of covers and I'd be a happy camper.


AT LEAST fix the damn detection rules so we can do the "crouching between stalking zones" thing.

Thats even worse. Imagine two stalking zones with some space between them, in bright sunlight you're darting between two zones and dont stand up. You remain couched, but the guards should logically see you, because a guy crouching in broad daylight without any cover isnt any harder to see than a standing guy. So what happens is that the game fools you into thinking you're hidden (because you're crouched) but you aren't. Either that o make guards so blind that they can't see you. Didn't they say something on this topic somewhere? Their logic was spot on. As it is now, crouching and standing is the visual indicator that Edward is invisible/visible. Without simultaneously making guards blind as bats, crouching between stalking zones would fudge that up. And anyhow, I'd normally un between two stalking zones. Can't say being crouched or stand would make much or a difference. I assume you can't spring while crouching, so he'd stand up while running anyway.

My point is, having a silentwalk or tiptoe button would serve the series more than something merely for aesthetic value. Even while playing the very first Assassins Creed for the very first time back in 2008, I was perturbed by how this supposedly stealthy guy walks about so carelessly behind his targets. I searched for buttons where he'd walk more slowly but all I found was that blend button. :nonchalance:

Fatal-Feit
12-15-2013, 06:29 PM
If they dont put crouching in AC5... I mean. AT LEAST fix the damn detection rules so we can do the "crouching between stalking zones" thing.

It is BEYOND overdue, and they KNOW it. Whether we want a croucn button, or greater variety of contexual crouching like you, WE ALL, or at least the VAST MAJORItY, want SOME sort of god damn crouching system.

They did attempt to place crouching in AC:4, but according to Darby, the beta testers had a hard time with it and they'll need to plan it from the start if they're to work on it anymore. MEANING that AC:V would most likely have crouch because, well, it's still early in development.

I didn't mind not having crouch but seeing Edward stand up every time he leaves a bush became annoying as hell! And it didn't help that they replaced dynamic blending with that stupid 'turn grey' thingy one. It could be just me but the noise that comes up whenever you blend or become visible is miles more agravating than not having a crouch button.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 06:33 PM
Depends, we aren't climbing buildings to assassinate, nor to blend in.



Not really. In crowded areas most of the time you'd spend in blend groups during stealth missions, or in restricted areas I'd be in stalking zones. Imagine you tailing a few guys through the streets, crouching like Bonnet. lawl



How exactly? Isn't something like this already in the game?



And didn't he look like an idiot crouching behind those guards in full view? Thats exactly my point. He stood out despite crouching, while Edward blended with people and disappeared.



You'd notice they always couch while in stalking zones only, or they're idiots like Bonnet.



Yes and assassins are supposed to use social stealth not LoS stealth necessarily. In that respect I think a dedicated silentwalk button would suit the game more than a dedicated crouch button.



Because, when you have a dedicated crouch/cover button, you always have to go over to a wall, take position and press the crouch button. Atleast that's how it happens in most other TPS/stealth-cover games. I find that system very problematic. AC's corner cover system is perfect. Do that for other types of covers and I'd be a happy camper.



Thats even worse. Imagine two stalking zones with some space between them, in bright sunlight you're darting between two zones and dont stand up. You remain couched, but the guards should logically see you, because a guy crouching in broad daylight without any cover isnt any harder to see than a standing guy. So what happens is that the game fools you into thinking you're hidden (because you're crouched) but you aren't. Either that o make guards so blind that they can't see you. Didn't they say something on this topic somewhere? Their logic was spot on. As it is now, crouching and standing is the visual indicator that Edward is invisible/visible. Without simultaneously making guards blind as bats, crouching between stalking zones would fudge that up. And anyhow, I'd normally un between two stalking zones. Can't say being crouched or stand would make much or a difference. I assume you can't spring while crouching, so he'd stand up while running anyway.

My point is, having a silentwalk or tiptoe button would serve the series more than something merely for aesthetic value. Even while playing the very first Assassins Creed for the very first time back in 2008, I was perturbed by how this supposedly stealthy guy walks about so carelessly behind his targets. I searched for buttons where he'd walk more slowly but all I found was that blend button. :nonchalance:

It is all about player control. If you want to look stupid and crouch in a crowded area, that is the players problem. But giving the player control over that is necessary. I do not want the game restricting me like that. And I dont think you should be invisible whenever you are crouched. It is aesthetic value.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 06:38 PM
It is all about player control. If you want to look stupid and crouch in a crowded area, that is the players problem. But giving the player control over that is necessary. I do not want the game restricting me like that.

In that case why not have individual buttons to plot Edward's steps, one step at a time? Player control ftw

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 06:50 PM
You’re overcomplicating things.
Seriously, a crouch button is perfect. Any sane person should know that crouching doesn’t make you invisible. The people who had trouble with that before AC4’s release were simply dumb. I don’t blame them for seeing crouch from such a dumb perspective since that is what casual games like AC (that are meant to be hardcore) create, dumbness.
In all fairness, do you think crouching makes you invisible?
The problem there was that there weren’t any mechanics associated with crouch and it was a simple aesthetic feature. But crouch has a purpose and a place in every stealth game other than aesthetics.

Don’t make things more complicated, a crouch button:
- Gives freedom to the player;
- Is more than useful when we want to sneak up on someone;
- Is necessary in order to camouflage ourselves with the environment;
- Is necessary for an open world game where the action isn’t linear or scripted;
- Helps to decrease the sound of your movements since you move slower and closer to the ground (if you don’t believe me then see Skyrim, Thief, Red Dead Redemption, etc. and you will see that crouch does decrease the chances of being spotted while approaching an enemy from behind)
- Is a requirement in a stealth game.

A crouch button is a simple and effective solution so let’s make sure the next AC has this option before entering into more details.



Also, a crouch button works for every stealth game out there, why wouldn't it work for AC?

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 06:59 PM
I think horses worked "fine" in previous AC games, at least you could do combat on them (looking at pre-patched Skyrim and even then, the combat isn't all that great) but my biggest issue with the horses is following the player.

Why. Stahp horse. I haz whistle when I want to call you. Stahp following me into the mountains and trees. Stahp.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 07:06 PM
In that case why not have individual buttons to plot Edward's steps, one step at a time? Player control ftw

Dont be a ****

Megas_Doux
12-15-2013, 07:11 PM
The thing here is, where to put a crouch botton?????? There is, literally, not enough room in consoles......

Fatal-Feit
12-15-2013, 07:14 PM
The thing here is, where to put a crouch botton?????? There is, literally, not enough room in consoles......

Hold onto the B or O button could work.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 07:15 PM
The thing here is, where to put a crouch botton?????? There is, literally, not enough room in consoles......

With the current AC4 control scheme, there are two. RB, which displays location info only on land, which os not needed, and LB, which does nothing on land except coordinate factions. Not needed.

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 07:15 PM
The thing here is, where to put a crouch botton?????? There is, literally, not enough room in consoles......


There is, it only takes some creativity and space management.

Shahkulu101
12-15-2013, 07:16 PM
The thing here is, where to put a crouch botton?????? There is, literally, not enough room in consoles......

- Double tap touchpad
- "XBOX Crouch"

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 07:16 PM
With the current AC4 control scheme, there are two. RB, which displays location info only on land, which os not needed, and LB, which does nothing on land except coordinate factions. Not needed.

LB reloads guns.

What could be done besides RB though is high profile plus X or A (fast walk)

But then again, I'm in the same boat where a button isn't needed if it's contextual.

Fatal-Feit
12-15-2013, 07:18 PM
With the current AC4 control scheme, there are two. RB, which displays location info only on land, which os not needed, and LB, which does nothing on land except coordinate factions. Not needed.

I like the location displays. It's pretty useful when collecting stuff. LB is also the reload button.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 07:19 PM
Also, a crouch button works for every stealth game out there, why wouldn't it work for AC?

Because unlike other stealth game, AC depends on social stealth more rather than shadows, that kind of things. Or atleast thats how its supposed to be. Like I said before, in this context a simple walk button would make more sense. Btw,


- Is necessary in order to camouflage ourselves with the environment;
This depends on the levels as well. For example now there aren't many low walls and structures where I'd think oh look, I can take cover behind that! In the present environment you don't need crouch to camouflage. If it changed to accommodate the types of structures I said? Then sure you'd need crouch.

And yes I do know that by videogame logic you make less noise while crouched. My mistake for bringing real world logic here. :p


Dont be a ****

I'm not being, unless the definition of **** changed somehow.


I like the location displays. It's pretty useful when collecting stuff. LB is also the reload button.

Yeah, I use the location display all the time as well.

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 07:26 PM
Because unlike other stealth game, AC depends on social stealth more rather than shadows, that kind of things. Or atleast thats how its supposed to be. Like I said before, in this context a simple walk button would make more sense. Btw,


This depends on the levels as well. For example now there aren't many low walls and structures where I'd think oh look, I can take cover behind that! In the present environment you don't need crouch to camouflage. If it changed to accommodate the types of structures I said? Then sure you'd need crouch.

And yes I do know that by videogame logic you make less noise while crouched. My mistake for bringing real world logic here. :p



I'm not being, unless the definition of **** changed somehow.



Yeah, I use the location display all the time as well.


So you want contextual crouch and a stealth walk button......why not simply have a crouch button then? It's easier and it solves the problem.



By real world logic you also make less noise while crouched. Here's a real world explanation:

"When you crouch close to the ground, you exert less force with each footstep, making it possible for you to walk almost soundlessly. Practice walking in a crouched position, absorbing the weight of your body with your knees. Engage all of your muscles."


If this isn't enough evidence that a crouch button is crucial then...........

Megas_Doux
12-15-2013, 07:38 PM
You all have VERY good ideas, and I really embrace a crouch button in particular. It is 2013, and despite the fact that AC is not a 100% stealth game, something in which I have NO problems with, a crouch option would increase the gameplay variety and missions, I just do have that concern though.

Because there is also that huge portion of the fanbase vehemently asking for the hood on/off button, for instance, I think AC is running out of space in consoles to meet the expectations haha.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 07:45 PM
Because something like this is already in the game. Simply make the areas behind low walls and other areas "blend zones" like the stalking zones and you're done. You've already done this for the corners. Make the whole restricted area such a place and you're done again. They did this again in AC3 during the Pitcairn mission, where Connor crouched behind rocks to avoid bullets. They're already implementing contextual stuff in bits and pieces, all thats needed is the full-scale application.

And I'm not the one who has much knowledge on what the true and pure Assassins Creed concept is, obviously, being a casual and all, but wasn't the game supposed to be about SOCIAL STEALTH? Why are we trying to turn it into Splinter Cell then? We're not supposed to crouch and hide from people we're supposed to hide in their plain sight. Isn't that what the original concept was? I dunno,

And yes, I guess for a practiced person it'd make no difference whether he's crouching or standing upright.

Rugterwyper32
12-15-2013, 07:45 PM
You all have VERY good ideas, and I really embrace a crouch button in particular. It is 2013, and despite the fact that AC is not a 100% stealth game, something in which I have NO problems with, a crouch option would increase the gameplay variety and missions, I just do have that concern though.

Because there is also that huge portion of the fanbase vehemently asking for the hood on/off button, for instance, I think AC is running out of space in consoles to meet the expectations haha.

Hood toggle could just be in the weapon wheel.
Meanwhile, crouch could be either added into clicking the right stick instead of the entirely useless "center cam" option, or LB (reload wouldn't really be needed in some settings, and when it's there clicking the right stick would work)

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 07:47 PM
Centering the camera isn't useless. Every game has this, and it's logical in a 3D environment.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 07:47 PM
Because something like this is already in the game. Simply make the areas behind low walls and other areas "blend zones" like the stalking zones and you're done. You've already done this for the corners. Make the whole restricted area such a place and you're done again. They did this again in AC3 during the Pitcairn mission, where Connor crouched behind rocks to avoid bullets. They're already implementing contextual stuff in bits and pieces, all thats needed is the full-scale application.

And I'm not the one who has much knowledge on what the true and pure Assassins Creed concept is, obviously, being a casual and all, but wasn't the game supposed to be about SOCIAL STEALTH? Why are we trying to turn it into Splinter Cell then? We're not supposed to crouch and hide from people we're supposed to hide in their plain sight. Isn't that what the original concept was? I dunno,

And yes, I guess for a practiced person it'd make no difference whether he's crouching or standing upright.

AC stopped being a purely social stealth game as soon as they decided to place a game in the middle of a freaking forest

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 07:49 PM
AC stopped being a purely social stealth game as soon as they decided to place a game in the middle of a freaking forrest

And that forest has shrubbery to hide under. So what's the problem?

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 07:50 PM
AC stopped being a purely social stealth game as soon as they decided to place a game in the middle of a freaking forrest

Hey, I'm not the one complaining about AC not being pure AC anymore. Tell that to those who are complaining. But if AC ever goes back to what it was, then that thing was social stealth. Not splinter cell-type stealth. I think Shobhit once created an excellent thread about the difference between those two.

Shahkulu101
12-15-2013, 07:54 PM
We already have the dinosaur crouch.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 07:54 PM
And that forest has shrubbery to hide under. So what's the problem?

That is looks stupid for the player to only be able to crouch down in a shrub. It is aesthetic value. And it would not hurt the experience to put it in.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 07:55 PM
Hey, I'm not the one complaining about AC not being pure AC anymore. Tell that to those who are complaining. But if AC ever goes back to what it was, then that thing was social stealth. Not splinter cell-type stealth. I think Shobhit once created an excellent thread about the difference between those two.

It never will go back to just social stealth. You know that. So we must work with what we have now.

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 07:57 PM
If crouching doesn't "do" anything, it's pointless.

Make crouching make your character half detectable or something like the Stealth Outfit from 4. Make the hood up or down affect notoriety somehow.

It needs to do something.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 07:58 PM
It never will go back to just social stealth. You know that. So we must work with what we have now.

Still think contextual crouching is better. Those who want to crouch get their wish, and those who don't want to fidget with buttons to ensure Edward crouches properly behind a cover get their wish too.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 08:00 PM
Still think contextual crouching is better. Those who want to crouch get their wish, and those who don't want to fidget with buttons to ensure Edward crouches properly behind a cover get their wish too.

It is a good start. You mean, like in restricted areas you automatically crouch behind small walls? Im fine with that for now.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 08:02 PM
If crouching doesn't "do" anything, it's pointless.

Make crouching make your character half detectable or something like the Stealth Outfit from 4. Make the hood up or down affect notoriety somehow.

It needs to do something.

It does do something. Aesthetic value adds immersion. NPCs in the city dont have to do actual jobs with props, but they do, and it adds immersion.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 08:02 PM
It is a good start. You mean, like in restricted areas you automatically crouch behind small walls? Im fine with that for now.

Yes, what I had in mind, is in restricted areas, you'd automatically assume a slower, cautious stance and you'd take cover behind low walls like you do now behind cover. Like you wanted Edward to remain crouched while moving from cover to cover.

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 08:07 PM
It does do something. Aesthetic value adds immersion. NPCs in the city dont have to do actual jobs with props, but they do, and it adds immersion.

But immersion would even be better if crouching and the hood toggle actually did something with the mechanics of the gameplay as well, not just aesthetic purposes.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 08:23 PM
Yes, what I had in mind, is in restricted areas, you'd automatically assume a slower, cautious stance and you'd take cover behind low walls like you do now behind cover. Like you wanted Edward to remain crouched while moving from cover to cover.

Like tomb raider

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 08:32 PM
Like tomb raider

Indeedo. That game has the best cover system I've seen in any game.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 08:37 PM
Indeedo. That game has the best cover system I've seen in any game.

I actually would be fine with that

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 08:43 PM
I actually would be fine with that

We're at an agreement then. Here, *hands flowers*

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 08:57 PM
But don't you get the problem? What you suggest restricts crouch to restricted areas but what about the rest of the world? What about random events, side missions or simple exploration that doesn't happen inside a restricted area?

Not only that but you’re forgetting the major reason why people crouch!! To move silently. You can't have that, if crouch is automatic and contextual. And it is a fact that you move much more quietly while crouched, it is essential to anyone who wants to be stealthy.
Seriously, this discussion is becoming nonsensical.

Crouch button adds a lot more than contextual crouch, it is much simpler, it adds freedom and it solves the problem. So why is the debate still going?

If the best Ubisoft can do for the next AC is contextual crouch then so be it (it's better than nothing) but if they can actually implement a crouch button then there is no contest.

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 09:02 PM
But don't you get the problem? What you suggest restricts crouch to restricted areas but what about the rest of the world? What about random events, side missions or simple exploration that doesn't happen inside a restricted area?

Not only that but you’re forgetting the major reason why people crouch!! To move silently. You can't have that, if crouch is automatic and contextual. And it is a fact that you move much more quietly while crouched, it is essential to anyone who wants to be stealthy.
Seriously, this discussion is becoming nonsensical.

Crouch button adds a lot more than contextual crouch, it is much simpler, it adds freedom and it solves the problem. So why is the debate still going?

If the best Ubisoft can do for the next AC is contextual crouch then so be it (it's better than nothing) but if they can actually implement a crouch button then there is no contest.

Because that's your opinion.

Others have different opinions. It's how discussion forums work. If we all agreed, there wouldn't be a need for discussion.

And again, saying things like "nonsensical, dumb, dumbness" etc. don't help your case. Your insulting people, even if you don't know it up there on your high and mighty pedestal.

Not everyone agrees with you champ, and your answers are once again, an opinion. Not a solution.

AherasSTRG
12-15-2013, 09:06 PM
No crouching... please...

Shahkulu101
12-15-2013, 09:07 PM
Indeedo. That game has the best cover system I've seen in any game.

Then you no play The Last of Us.

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 09:08 PM
Then you no play The Last of Us.

I haven't played that because I don't own a PS3. Can you tell me how it works?

Because I'm a bit iffy on the Tomb Raider thing. Lara crouches nearly all the time. Great cover, but not a fan of the auto crouch for every instance she hears a twig snap.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 09:08 PM
Then you no play The Last of Us.

I no haz PS3 das y.


Because I'm a bit iffy on the Tomb Raider thing. Lara crouches nearly all the time. Great cover, but not a fan of the auto crouch for every instance she hears a twig snap.

When there is enemies nearby, or combat is initiated she is crouching, other times she stands upright. But yeah, I'd like to know about TLoU's systems as well.

AssassinHMS, I'm sorry that my ideas appeared nonsensical to you, I'm now totally convinced that a crouch button is what AC needs dearly, no contextual ****, apologies.

Sushiglutton
12-15-2013, 09:10 PM
I'm going back and forth on the crouch thing. Atm I'm leaning towards that it's unnecessary. First off the stalking zones is a really awesome feature. In AC4 they look great and the assassin is visually hidden (not in some of the fields though, they are still too sparse). AC also has hanging from the edge of a roof and corner cover as ways of staying out of site. I also feel like AC is more about fast and agile stealth rather than the slower, more methodical one you find in most other stealth games. Adding a crouch-button might make the game feel a little sluggish.

On the other hand the more control you have of the assassin the better (as long as it's reasonable). And crouching does feel like something you should be able to do. And ofc when there is a low stone wall, or like a waste high barrel, it kind of feels stupid that you can't do it.

I dunno, I feel like I would need to playtest it to be sure.

Wolfmeister1010
12-15-2013, 09:12 PM
We're at an agreement then. Here, *hands flowers*

Im sorry I called you a **** lol.

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 09:19 PM
I no haz PS3 das y.



When there is enemies nearby, or combat is initiated she is crouching, other times she stands upright. But yeah, I'd like to know about TLoU's systems as well.

AssassinHMS, I'm sorry that my ideas appeared nonsensical to you, I'm now totally convinced that a crouch button is what AC needs dearly, no contextual ****, apologies.

Oh I know, I have Tomb Raider. Great game, even if everything in the game collapses in on itself except that one structure/building/cliff you expect to and it doesn't.

My idea for the crouch, if not a button, at least let us remain crouched for a few seconds between shrubbery.

When you're standing with a crowd and blended, walk away. It's a VERY ridiculous amount of time that you're still "blended" even though those people are long gone. While it's a long time, if you leave brush even for a second, Edward stands and loses stealth. This wouldn't be an issue except that some brush that is interconnected (or at least appears to be) isn't, and Edward stands up and loses his stealth just to duck right back down again. Some sugar cane fields have a small river that tucks through it. You walk through that very narrow part, and Edward is standing straight up. Extend crouching to the next bush or for 3 seconds or so, just to make it to the next bush.

Heck, I wouldn't even care if you lost stealth, but it's fairly ridiculous to crouchcrouchcrouchSTANDcrouchcrouch with no spaces except a very small one in-between.

Sigv4rd
12-15-2013, 09:21 PM
I'd also like the option to slide after crouching...

DarktheMagister
12-15-2013, 09:27 PM
Wow....I just realized that Stede DOES crouch.....and looks like an idiot doing it while running through the crowd.

I wonder if that was a purposefully placed nod to this kind of debate.

AssassinHMS
12-15-2013, 09:27 PM
I no haz PS3 das y.



When there is enemies nearby, or combat is initiated she is crouching, other times she stands upright. But yeah, I'd like to know about TLoU's systems as well.

AssassinHMS, I'm sorry that my ideas appeared nonsensical to you, I'm now totally convinced that a crouch button is what AC needs dearly, no contextual ****, apologies.

I don’t think that your ideas are nonsensical. What I was trying to figure out was why, after all that we discussed, would someone still think that contextual crouch would be better for AC.
If anyone, I should be the one to apologize for appearing too aggressive. Anyway, I’m glad we made a successful argument and reached a consensus.

Rugterwyper32
12-15-2013, 09:27 PM
Centering the camera isn't useless. Every game has this, and it's logical in a 3D environment.

I would agree if we were still dealing with Super Mario 64/Sonic Adventure style camera, but for a 3D game I've always found the camera in this game perfectly responsive and useful as it is. And I've seen many people not even knowing that the option for it exists, much less use it.

As for my take on crouch, I think bringing gentle push back to B, then making A work like blend in AC1 just that it being more of a stealth walk mode kinda like the stealth walk from the Hitman series, and keeping stalking zones but having to hold A to stay crouched between stalking zones might work. I don't even know anymore.

Shahkulu101
12-15-2013, 09:27 PM
I haven't played that because I don't own a PS3. Can you tell me how it works?

Because I'm a bit iffy on the Tomb Raider thing. Lara crouches nearly all the time. Great cover, but not a fan of the auto crouch for every instance she hears a twig snap.

It's just organic, there's a crouch button that you can use anywhere. If your crouched and covered by an object you can move around freely - no 'sticking' to cover. It's great mainly because of how tense it is while your in cover, with enemies so close to you it's vital to use it properly or else well...your throat is eaten. It's more about how it feels in use to be honest, hard to explain.

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 09:30 PM
Wow....I just realized that Stede DOES crouch.....and looks like an idiot doing it while running through the crowd.

I wonder if that was a purposefully placed nod to this kind of debate.

hahaha

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 09:31 PM
I would agree if we were still dealing with Super Mario 64/Sonic Adventure style camera, but for a 3D game I've always found the camera in this game perfectly responsive and useful as it is. And I've seen many people not even knowing that the option for it exists, much less use it.

As for my take on crouch, I think bringing gentle push back to B, then making A work like blend in AC1 just that it being more of a stealth walk mode kinda like the stealth walk from the Hitman series, and keeping stalking zones but having to hold A to stay crouched between stalking zones might work. I don't even know anymore.

There are other options that could go first, besides the auto camera fix.

I use it all the time during chases, as it's somewhat disorienting to move the camera WHILE running around you. An auto center camera resolves that issue.

I'd rather have a button that was useful (ie auto center camera button) versus something ONLY cosmetic. (ie crouch)


Wow....I just realized that Stede DOES crouch.....and looks like an idiot doing it while running through the crowd.

I wonder if that was a purposefully placed nod to this kind of debate.

Hahahaha! I guess the people who haven't played Black Flag wouldn't know it's there then!


It's just organic, there's a crouch button that you can use anywhere. If your crouched and covered by an object you can move around freely - no 'sticking' to cover. It's great mainly because of how tense it is while your in cover, with enemies so close to you it's vital to use it properly or else well...your throat is eaten. It's more about how it feels in use to be honest, hard to explain.

So if there wasn't a chance to be eaten, and the Clickers were replaced with Guards from AC, would you still "feel" the same way?

Kagurra
12-15-2013, 09:36 PM
Wow....I just realized that Stede DOES crouch.....and looks like an idiot doing it while running through the crowd.

I wonder if that was a purposefully placed nod to this kind of debate.

I hope so... lol

pirate1802
12-15-2013, 09:38 PM
Darby, you're reading this and laughing aren't you?

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 09:39 PM
Where's killzab when we need him? Or maybe Darby will call someone else out!

Shahkulu101
12-15-2013, 09:40 PM
There are other options that could go first, besides the auto camera fix.

I use it all the time during chases, as it's somewhat disorienting to move the camera WHILE running around you. An auto center camera resolves that issue.

I'd rather have a button that was useful (ie auto center camera button) versus something ONLY cosmetic. (ie crouch)



Hahahaha! I guess the people who haven't played Black Flag wouldn't know it's there then!



So if there wasn't a chance to be eaten, and the Clickers were replaced with Guards from AC, would you still "feel" the same way?

I'd be cautious of being spotted, but there wouldn't be as great a level of tension - but it would definitely work great in AC. It doesn't feel like a contrived mechanic but just another way to use the enviroment to your advantage.

MnemonicSyntax
12-15-2013, 09:45 PM
I'd be cautious of being spotted, but there wouldn't be as great a level of tension - but it would definitely work great in AC. It doesn't feel like a contrived mechanic but just another way to use the enviroment to your advantage.

Makes sense. I know some Clickers or whatever they're called can kill you in one hit. While a bit unrealistic in AC's world, your comment is sound and logical.

We'll just have to see how it plays out with Ubisoft then.

Sigv4rd
12-15-2013, 09:53 PM
Darby, you're reading this and laughing aren't you?

He's more than likely laughing at one of the million "I hav a gr8t idea for an AC game (WW2, WW1, japan, Victorian London)" or "He guyz Ssassins Creed 5 WW2 we cood assassinkill Hitler"... That's what I would do...

Hans684
12-15-2013, 09:55 PM
Makes sense. I know some Clickers or whatever they're called can kill you in one hit. While a bit unrealistic in AC's world, your comment is sound and logical.

We'll just have to see how it plays out with Ubisoft then.

I love and hate the clickers, they are a good edition to stealth becouse they only use sound but all the times they have killed me in story moments where you are forced to fight nearly killed me. On the other hand i liked that they killed me so much becouse it means it's a challenge.

killzab
12-15-2013, 10:59 PM
Where's killzab when we need him? Or maybe Darby will call someone else out!

Lol here I am, though I don't have much to say about the topic of crouching. I would like something like third person shooters where you can lean against anything. The game already kinda does it but only for wall corners. But leaning against low surfaces like crates would remove some frustration for sure.