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View Full Version : How to solve the combat dilemma once and for all.



AssassinHMS
12-11-2013, 12:55 AM
In all fairness, here’s what I think Ubisoft should do to combat.

This system where the player defeats enemies by triggering small choreographed clips needs to end. Introduce a more realistic combat where the goal is to catch the opponent by surprise or outmaneuver him. It should be about striking and parry and about balancing defense and offense.
Combat should reward those who analyze the situation prior to the fight. Someone who ends up fighting against a battalion or a big group of enemies due to recklessness, must be ready to face the consequences. There have to be real consequences or else the player (no matter how skilled and competent) will eventually surrender to the lack of challenge and stop making an effort to pretend there is a reason to make an effort. Not only that, but a combat system that rewards intelligence and doesn’t allow stupidity or complete recklessness, will give a reason to escape. If you don’t use your smarts or if you act recklessly, you will be forced to run.

This is how the combat scheme should be for everyone, not dumb but not difficult either (as long as you’re able to think).


And here is where Ubisoft should divide players and allow each one to personalize their experience.
Next AC games should give us choices to make the experience suit our preferences:

- Easy peasy – Enemies are more scattered around and less aggressive (players who want to keep fighting all the time and don’t want to worry about stealth should pick this option. During missions, enemies will be less clustered which means the player should be able to take them down relatively easy and not worry about having to access situations beforehand. Guards will take more time to react to the assassin’s presence and won’t search him if he escapes.);
- Novice – Want to rely on stealth while still being able to crack some heads? Then this gameplay option should suit you. Stealth will require skill and thought but so will combat. Taking down 5 or 6 enemies isn’t that difficult but beware of main assassination missions. More powerful targets won’t spare any dime on protection and should your skills fail at the wrong occasion don’t waste any second pretending you stand a chance against a battalion. Accessing the situation is important as players who act recklessly will find themselves often in a tight spot. Anyway, no one will think any less of you if you decide to escape.
- Assassin – No more holding back. Any Assassin knows how to make proper use of shadows or crowds but only a skillful tactician knows how to be a ghost. This is the real deal, this level will put you in the shoes of an actual Assassin. Yes, you were trained to withstand against though opponents but make no mistake, you are no full-fledged warrior and certainly no God. Fighting is only an option if you know when it is an option. Shadows, crowds, walls, anything that conceals you is your best friend. You will have to rely on your skill and on your brain. Odds are you will win against 2 or 3 enemies but fail to think beforehand or to react in time and you’d better be prepared to run for your life. However, you are still a badass assassin as long as you use your brain. On the other hand stealth, combat and navigation will be filled with tension, thrill and excitement. Anyway, should you choose this mode, you’d better be prepared to use your skills and get used to think like an Assassin.

Other than these main settings, there should also be other choices to further customize the experience. If you have any suggestions as to which tweaks and options you would like to have, do post them as I’d like to see other ideas.

So, would you like to see something like this in future AC games? Do you think this solves the combat dilemma?

Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 01:07 AM
No way. Absolutely no way. Difficulty settings ruin these types of games.

tymaster50
12-11-2013, 01:08 AM
There would have to be a fix for the animus cloud sequence thing. Whats stopping me from running in and capping the guy quickly to end the fight?

MIA SILENT
12-11-2013, 01:11 AM
If this dilemma is going to be solved, we need actual ideas on how to make the combat more challenging. People have already come up with awesome ideas in other threads (SushiGlutton and others). I just hope Ubisoft will take notice and realise this is something fans really want.

I agree that different difficulty modes should be added for the gamers that like the casualness of AC. While also giving those that want a challenge from the combat the option for it.

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 01:15 AM
What was Sushi's idea? We tend to agree on a lot of things.

Megas_Doux
12-11-2013, 01:15 AM
It is the easy path to solve the problem, but considering the policy of annual releases, the most plausible one.

tymaster50
12-11-2013, 01:17 AM
They should tone down the sensitivty of the counter button, it is like the batman games, no reason to use stealth when i can KO everyone in like 30 seconds because of countering. Make enemies attack at the same type and vary their fighting styles, I already knew how to take down each and every one of the enemy types by like sequence 6, brutes press a/x twice, nimble guys b/o to counter then x/square. Captain looking guys block then break defense, Too easy.

MIA SILENT
12-11-2013, 01:29 AM
What was Sushi's idea? We tend to agree on a lot of things.

Trying to find the thread but looks like it's been buried. Whenever combat related stuff comes up there are a few members here that have the right idea.

AssassinHMS
12-11-2013, 01:41 AM
I already posted a few ideas on how to make combat harder and more interesting but I always face the same problems (not everyone wants challenge). Ubisoft canít please everyone and I understand that many people (many coin purses) would be unpleased if, suddenly, they were forced to think and act like an Assassin in an Assassinís Creed game. However, there are also many people like me, who want to be put in the shoes of an Assassin and be encouraged to put our skills to the test. I know I will never be able to have this AC experience without different difficulty levels because Ubisoft will never put the franchise and the concept before money. Iím also tired of casual gameplay and I donít think anything theyíll do will be offer as much as this, so Iím asking for the most satisfying and plausible option.

As for the actual combat system, Iím still working on my idea and, when Iím happy with it, Iíll post it here.



No way. Absolutely no way. Difficulty settings ruin these types of games.
Why would it ruin the game? Also, realistically speaking, can you offer a better solution?

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 01:47 AM
I already posted a few ideas on how to make combat harder and more interesting but I always face the same problems (not everyone wants challenge). Ubisoft can’t please everyone and I understand that many people (many coin purses) would be unpleased if, suddenly, they were forced to think and act like an Assassin in an Assassin’s Creed game. However, there are also many people like me, who want to be put in the shoes of an Assassin and be encouraged to put our skills to the test. I know I will never be able to have this AC experience without different difficulty levels because Ubisoft will never put the franchise and the concept before money. I’m also tired of casual gameplay and I don’t think anything they’ll do will be offer as much as this, so I’m asking for the most satisfying and plausible option.

As for the actual combat system, I’m still working on my idea and, when I’m happy with it, I’ll post it here.



Why would it ruin the game? Also, realistically speaking, can you offer a better solution?

Honestly, I like this idea. It certainly deserves a shot if anything. And it gives us all options, which is the idea.

EzioAssassin51
12-11-2013, 02:12 AM
So basically you're suggesting:
Easy: Pretty much easy combat and easy stealth.
Novice: As it is now with a good balance of combat and stealth, depending what you want to do, and if stealth fails, you won't die easily.
Assassin: You have to be stealthy or die

I don't like that. The 'Assassin' mode would be forcing stealth too much and preventing us from maybe going on a killing spree for fun, or if we don't want to be stealthy, or if we stuff up. The good thing about AC4 is that it has awesome stealth, that isn't forced, and, if you stuff up, you can still complete the mission, without tediously having to run and hide or die. Better yet, you can kill a few guys quickly then hide again! I don't think this should have a difficulty level, it wouldn't solve combat problems either, because difficulty is only a part of the problem. Plus, making it incredibly difficult, like in the Assassin mode would take away the fun of it, making it completely redundant.

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 02:20 AM
So basically you're suggesting:
Easy: Pretty much easy combat and easy stealth.
Novice: As it is now with a good balance of combat and stealth, depending what you want to do, and if stealth fails, you won't die easily.
Assassin: You have to be stealthy or die

I don't like that. The 'Assassin' mode would be forcing stealth too much and preventing us from maybe going on a killing spree for fun, or if we don't want to be stealthy, or if we stuff up. The good thing about AC4 is that it has awesome stealth, that isn't forced, and, if you stuff up, you can still complete the mission, without tediously having to run and hide or die. Better yet, you can kill a few guys quickly then hide again! I don't think this should have a difficulty level, it wouldn't solve combat problems either, because difficulty is only a part of the problem. Plus, making it incredibly difficult, like in the Assassin mode would take away the fun of it, making it completely redundant.

Not according to HMS. He wants it realistic, especially combat. You get shot once or two, you die. You can't take on more than four enemies, possibly a meter for stamina. By making it real, you'll also need to fall upon navigation to get away and stealth to hide. Otherwise, stealth and navigation are useless.

A light/shadow meter for stealth, and he's mentioned weights too, such as if you're carrying too much stuff, you can't run as fast, etc.

This is what he's said. This isn't a jab at him, but it is what he's suggested in the past.

He wants to feel like a real Assassin.

STDlyMcStudpants
12-11-2013, 02:34 AM
But you are an ASSASSIN NOT a sword fighter.
Combat should be swift and deadly.
I want ACR and AC3 to have a baby.
Swift, deadly, combo kills, and ability to take advantage of your surroundings.
And how do you know what is "realistic" and not? lol
Have you seen all men fight? :D

AssassinHMS
12-11-2013, 02:41 AM
So basically you're suggesting:
Easy: Pretty much easy combat and easy stealth.
Novice: As it is now with a good balance of combat and stealth, depending what you want to do, and if stealth fails, you won't die easily.
Assassin: You have to be stealthy or die

I don't like that. The 'Assassin' mode would be forcing stealth too much and preventing us from maybe going on a killing spree for fun, or if we don't want to be stealthy, or if we stuff up. The good thing about AC4 is that it has awesome stealth, that isn't forced, and, if you stuff up, you can still complete the mission, without tediously having to run and hide or die. Better yet, you can kill a few guys quickly then hide again! I don't think this should have a difficulty level, it wouldn't solve combat problems either, because difficulty is only a part of the problem. Plus, making it incredibly difficult, like in the Assassin mode would take away the fun of it, making it completely redundant.

You didn’t understand my suggestion and you’re complaining about your own perception of my post.
To put it simply:
The combat system itself will reward intelligence (accessing the situation beforehand, dealing with the enemies in creative and effective ways instead of letting become surrounded and try to hit everyone and block every attack) and it will make life more difficult for those who are reckless or who don’t plan their attack. The amount of challenge (how much recklessness and brains will count and matter for the outcome) is decided by the player according to the different levels.


As for the levels themselves (which you seem to have misunderstood):
Easy Peasy: More or less like current AC games where combat is always viable and where thinking beforehand or planning, is never a requirement. You can jump into any situation and, if you have basic skills, you should be able to come out alive.

Novice: Combat isn’t always viable. Fighting waves of enemies is impossible here and the punishment for recklessness as well as the reward for intelligence will be much bigger. Be reckless and you will find yourself constantly running. Be smart and you will be constantly patting yourself on the back. However, most of the situations can be easily handled if you play your cards right, so there won’t be any real fear or sense of danger. You can still defeat 5 enemies (not so easily though) but more than that and… To put it simply, it encourages both stealth and combat as long as you think, as long as you access the situation and outsmart your opponents.

Assassin: This is the most realistic. Combat is a viable option if you are smart enough to use it and to know when to use it. Stealth is imperative here, no doubt. If you want to face opponents directly then you must first lay your plan and prepare your ambush because, if you strike more than 3 enemies just like that, odds are you will lose. Be smart and you will be badass. Think like an assassin and act like one. You’re not lord of options anymore. You have many options but all of them must be crafted as they won’t be handed to you on a plate. Understand the difference? You will push your assassin skills to the limit (all of them) and the experience will be filled with tension, thrill and excitement.
So I’ll say once more, this is not stealth or death. This is think or face the consequences (which can also mean death). Combat can be as much of an answer as stealth (even to the same question) but it will depend, not on your preference, but on your ability to pull it off. Difficult situations require more ingenious and carefully crafted methods.

In the end, the game never really decides anything. It is always up to the player.