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Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 12:13 AM
The 3 core mechanics that (after 6 games) need to be changed are parkour, social stealth, and combat.

I made a thread about my idea of combat a while ago, and now I am making one about my parkour idea. Sure Parkour got a few upgrades in AC3, with the addition of vaulting and putting all movements to one button. But the core remained the same, and although the "setting all parkour movements to one button" was refreshing at first, I now feel like it was an unnecessary dumbing down of a major mechanic, so now instead of actually pressing different buttons to do different moves, I now just stare blankly at the screen with my thumb pushing forward and the right trigger pushed down. That is not fun.

My ideas for parkour came to me after getting and playing Tomb Raider 2013 a few days ago. (BTW, awesome game, if a bit short) surprisingly, Tomb Raider's "parkour" system felt better than AC's. Lara can do all the things AC characters can do, with the exception of climbing up on every surface. She can only climb up on specific marked surfaces. The thing that TR does right is that it assigns each move to a button, but keeps the control scheme very very simple. Here is my idea for parkour improvements to AC, inspired by TR.

1. Running- same as Ac3/4. Running no longer requires holding down A/X.
2. Vaulting-running while holding B/O. No more holding A (I will explain why soon)
3. Climbing-
Regular climbing- exactly the same as AC3/4
When you need to "jump climb"-bring back AC2 style climb leaping by pressing A while climbing
Ledge gap jumps (when the player is grabbing a ledge, and needs to hurl themselves to the side to reach another ledge right next to him but unreachable by normal climbing- like TR, where you must press A while moving left/right. In essence, is a sideways climb leap. If you do this move in a situation where you CAN move left/right with normal climbing, or if there is no ledge to grab on on either side of you, then you will end up doing a side eject.
Side/back ejects- exactly like all ACs, where you run up a wall and press A/X While moving left/right/back to do an eject move.

4. Jumping- you ALWAYS press A/X to jump. Whether it is jumping gaps between buildings, or jumping onto a ledge, you ALWAYS press the jump button right before the gap to jump. NO MORE mindless holding of one button. Keeps the blood flowing. If you do it correctly, there should be no visual difference from all the other games. (I press A/X whenever I jump to add realism, it works in every game fine) so do not worry about it looking or working weirdly.

If you run over a gap without jumping, one of two things could happen.

1. If the fall is very short, you fluidly do a parkour land/roll, in a way that is much more fast and fluid than regular AC.

2. If the fall is very long, then you automatically fall and grab the ledge of the surface you were on. You just need to get back up again in one thumbstick movement. This prevents annoying mistakes.

5. Wall Running- while running AT A DIAGONAL ANGLE towards a blank, unable to be gripped wall (one with no handholds) press A/X to jump and run on the wall for a short distance. Basically, you run slightly less than parallel to the wall before jumping.

6/tree Running-exactly the same as AC3/4, but also affected by the new jumping mechanic.


Thanks! What do you guys think? I know the wall running might be controversial, but I really think it would work.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 12:59 AM
If you run over a gap without jumping, one of two things could happen.

1. If the fall is very short, you fluidly do a parkour land/roll, in a way that is much more fast and fluid than regular AC.

2. If the fall is very long, then you automatically fall and grab the ledge of the surface you were on. You just need to get back up again in one thumbstick movement. This prevents annoying mistakes.



Ths is suicide, I hope you realise how much rage and frustration this would bring toward the players.

Here's my idea:

When you run toward a gap:

1- Holding Hand makes you fall, whenever the high, you fall. You can combine a jump and a slide to maximize the fluidity.
2- Pressing Hand just before the ledge, instead of the jump button makes you grab the ledge.

This way we would have full control, and if you just run toward the character just stops or does ''wow'' move.

Here's some points for climbing:

1- Run button + joystick to fluidly climb when you have close grips
2- Leg button for jumps or higher grips, just like in AC2, but no more High Profile + Jump(that was a crappy system) After the jump, you must press the Hand button to catch up.
3- Some grips could fall under your weight, those would be totally random and to 'survive' them you'd have to press the Jump button right after.
4- Side jumps would no longer get you killed but would instead jump from one ledge to another (TR).
5- Reverse jumps stays the same.

Here's some point for interactive environments

1- If you spot an open window or a glass window, you press the Head button just before the jump, the character would automaticlly jump inside the house by breaking the window.
2- Inside, you have to run, but instead of having a single room, you get 3-4.
3- Each room needs you jump/ slide/ dodge people or furnitures with little slow-mos (0,5 sec). If you don't some ennemies could push you off the place trought a window or a door.
4- Running into a person or a furniture slows you and after 2 in line you fall.
5- You could get in/ out as you want, you could even come around the house and get out by where you got in.
6- It would be possible to attack by, example:

You spot your target, you mark it, and you see it comes around and house. You could jump the House and press the Assassination button, the character would automatically run toward the fastest way to reach the target. All you need to do is to get across the house and enjoy the epicness.

:3

MIA SILENT
12-11-2013, 12:59 AM
- I prefer only having to press one button to run. It allows me to move the camera when running at full speed; making me feel more agile (especially when running through the streets)

- I don't really feel the "jump leap grab" is needed. In past games it made climbing a tall building easier than it should have been. Now it's gone, climbing buildings takes a little longer because you can't just leap jump to silly heights.

- I'm pretty sure "side ejecting" is in the game. The camera has to be pointing in the direction you want to go. If I'm grabbing a ledge but the one I want to get to is too far for normal climbing I can do a side eject, then hold B to catch the second ledge. I may be misunderstanding this part of your idea though - because I think this stuff is already in the game?

About part 4 - I like this idea. And I find myself doing it a lot already, even though I don't currently need to. It feels more satisfying.

And about wall running. What you're talking about was in Revelations as sort of a contextual animation in the environment of some platform-puzzles, if I remember rightly. I liked it, but other than traversing small gaps - it wasn't very exciting. However, I wouldn't mind if it returned in a more refined way. If you look at Parkour people in real life they use wall running to navigate and it looks really cool.

Pretty good ideas overall. 4 stars.

Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 01:03 AM
Ths is suicide, I hope you realise how rage and frustration this would bring toward the players.

Here's my idea:

When you run toward a gap:

1- Holding Hand makes you fall, whenever the high, you fall. You can combing a jump and a slide to maximize the fluidity.
2- Pressing Hand just before the ledge, instead of the jump button makes you grab the ledge.

This way we have full control, and if you just run toward the character just stops or does ''wow'' move.

Here's some points for climbing:

1- Run button + joystick to fluidly climb when you have small graps
2- Leg button for jumps or higher graps, just like in AC2, but no more High Profile + Jump(that was a crappy system) After the jump, you must press the Hand button to catch up.
3- Some graps could fall under your weight, those would be totally random and to 'survive' them you'd have to press the Jump button right after.
4- Side jumps would no longer get you killed but would instead jump from on ledge to another.
5- Reverse jumps stays the same.

Here's some point for interactive environments

1- If you spot an open window or a glasss window, you press the Head button just before the jump, the character would automaticlly jump inside the house by breaking the window.
2- Inside, you have to run, but instead of having a single room, you get 3-4.
3- Each room needs you jump/ slide/ dodge people or furnitures with little slow-mos (,5 sec)
4- Running into a person or a furniture slows you and after 2 in line you fall.
5- You could get in/ out as you want, you could even come around the house and get out by where you got in.
6- It would be possible to attack by, example:

You spot your target, you mark it, and you see it comes around and house. You could jump the House and press the Assassination button, the character would automatically run toward the fastest way to reach the target. All you need to do is to get across the house and enjoy the epicness.

:3

The point of it was to NOT make people rage. Care to explain why you think my idea about jumping would make people rage?

Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 01:06 AM
- I prefer only having to press one button to run. It allows me to move the camera when running at full speed; making me feel more agile (especially when running through the streets)

- I don't really feel the "jump leap grab" is needed. In past games it made climbing a tall building easier than it should have been. Now it's gone, climbing buildings takes a little longer because you can't just leap jump to silly heights.

- I'm pretty sure "side ejecting" is in the game. The camera has to be pointing in the direction you want to go. If I'm grabbing a ledge but the one I want to get to is too far for normal climbing I can do a side eject, then hold B to catch the second ledge. I may be misunderstanding this part of your idea though - because I think this stuff is already in the game?

About part 4 - I like this idea. And I find myself doing it a lot already, even though I don't currently need to. It feels more satisfying.

And about wall running. What you're talking about was in Revelations as sort of a contextual animation in the environment of some platform-puzzles, if I remember rightly. I liked it, but other than traversing small gaps - it wasn't very exciting. However, I wouldn't mind if it returned in a more refined way. If you look at Parkour people in real life they use wall running to navigate and it looks really cool.

Pretty good ideas overall. 4 stars.

...the only difference bewtween ac3 and ac2 in regards to climb leap is that Ac3 does it automatically. They still jump the same height.

I know side ejecting is already in the game. I was saying it should stay.

....when was there wall running in AC Revelations? Do you know what I am talking about? I am talking about the running on the sides of walls for a few meters like in Mirrors Edge.

MIA SILENT
12-11-2013, 01:20 AM
...the only difference bewtween ac3 and ac2 in regards to climb leap is that Ac3 does it automatically. They still jump the same height.

I know side ejecting is already in the game. I was saying it should stay.

....when was there wall running in AC Revelations? Do you know what I am talking about? I am talking about the running on the sides of walls for a few meters like in Mirrors Edge.

There's another difference. In AC2 you could leap above a lower ledge to get to a higher one. In AC3 you will only leap climb if there isn't another ledge closer to you.

It was either Revelations or Brotherhood. In one of the platforming areas there were stages where you needed to wall run to progress. They were like little set pieces with skid marks on the wall telling you where they were. Someone else could probably also confirm this.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 02:18 AM
The point of it was to NOT make people rage. Care to explain why you think my idea about jumping would make people rage?

Not jumping, but the whole ''falling down if you don't press any button'' will. I myself am kinda frustrated when the character drops on the ledge, I can't imagine how I would feel if he'd completely drop and I'd need to climb back.

phoenix-force411
12-11-2013, 02:22 AM
It was the best in ACIII. ACIII and ACII were the only games where the parkour were at its best.

Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 02:25 AM
Not jumping, but the whole ''falling down if you don't press any button'' will. I myself am kinda frustrated when the character drops on the ledge, I can't imagine how I would feel if he'd completely drop and I'd need to climb back.

Please READ the post. You would not fall all the way down. You would simply kinda do a"trip" and grab the ledge. It is in SOOO many other games. It is fine. If you do end up grabbing the ledge, it takes like a second to get back up again.

Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 02:26 AM
It was the best in ACIII. ACIII and ACII were the only games where the parkour were at its best.

...well, ACB was the same as AC2, and AC3 was the same as AC4.. So basically you are saying that the parkour was best in "only" 2/3 of the series.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 02:34 AM
1. If the fall is very short, you fluidly do a parkour land/roll, in a way that is much more fast and fluid than regular AC.

I don't want my character to land/ roll if I don't want to, this is crappy since you can always have nonattention moments, having to press a button to execute that would be better because you fully control (you press for him to do something, instead of doing nothing for him to do it) AND avoids unecessery falls.


2. If the fall is very long, then you automatically fall and grab the ledge of the surface you were on. You just need to get back up again in one thumbstick movement. This prevents annoying mistakes.

Then again, it's all about control, and even tought it takes a sec to get back up, the following problem can occures: Grabs the ledge, get backs up, grabs the ledge again because I didn't back off enough to do the jump (this actually happens to me a couple of times). It would simply avoid a minor problem and again, it feels better to press a button for the character to do something than to do nothing for him to do it. I personnaly never quitted pressing High profile button in AC3 because I felt like I had the control (obviously it was just an illusion).

phoenix-force411
12-11-2013, 05:18 AM
...well, ACB was the same as AC2, and AC3 was the same as AC4.. So basically you are saying that the parkour was best in "only" 2/3 of the series.

ACII's parkour was swift, because of the map designs. In ACB, the game sometimes will auto-drop Ezio if his Ezio's hand couldn't grab a certain part of ledge. In ACR, the parkour was just horrible, but the Hookblade makes up for it. ACIII's parkour revolved around a lot of trees, buildings, and mountain climbing. There were also more animations for vaulting over objects and they weren't as badly done as they were in ACIV. In ACIV, climbing revolved around ships and somewhat of buildings and trees, but the animations for vaulting over objects were limited and sometimes just didn't work or Edward will attempt but fail at it.

Wolfmeister1010
12-11-2013, 06:00 AM
ACII's parkour was swift, because of the map designs. In ACB, the game sometimes will auto-drop Ezio if his Ezio's hand couldn't grab a certain part of ledge. In ACR, the parkour was just horrible, but the Hookblade makes up for it. ACIII's parkour revolved around a lot of trees, buildings, and mountain climbing. There were also more animations for vaulting over objects and they weren't as badly done as they were in ACIV. In ACIV, climbing revolved around ships and somewhat of buildings and trees, but the animations for vaulting over objects were limited and sometimes just didn't work or Edward will attempt but fail at it.

...ACIV and AC3 had the EXACT same parkour. A few different vaulting animations does not change anything. And no, it did not autodrop in ACB, that was you. Never had ANY issues like that EVER.

roostersrule2
12-11-2013, 11:42 AM
I think they should make a sub-forum for all your ideas.

pacmanate
12-11-2013, 12:32 PM
I think they should make a sub-forum for all your ideas.

Hahaha