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View Full Version : Q&A with Darby on AC Initiates



killzab
12-10-2013, 02:14 AM
https://acinitiates.com/forum/discussion/3904/page/10#/10

Here you go.

Some interesting stuff to read.

But, it's only my opinion of course, but I think Darby is a little too "proud" or cocky for my taste. He's a pretty good writer but he could use some humility in regards to criticism at least. Or perhaps it's just his way of answering the questions IDK ...

Wolfmeister1010
12-10-2013, 02:33 AM
Darby is my hero. He stands up for whis work.

Taking critisism is not always putting your head down in shame and taking all the blows. Sometimes it is exhanging ideas and beliefs. Obviously many people were not happy with the story, and yet just as many were. But, as always, the ones who hate are the ones who whine the loudest.

Darby is one of those people who is not afraid to speak their mind. So many people in the game industry are just all "smile through their teeth" kind of people. But Darb is not. He intimidated me at first with his brutally honest personality, but soon I saw past it and realized he was just a guy who is VERY proud of his work

MnemonicSyntax
12-10-2013, 02:45 AM
Oh good. I like these answers.

Some people think that AC is about plot, when Darby says that the characters are equally if not more important.


We had a story to tell about Edward, and we did it.

killzab
12-10-2013, 02:49 AM
Well there's a subtle difference between saying "our story is good" and "we're proud of the story we created and we're sorry you didn't like it as much as we do" .

Darby tends to say the first.

He just said on Twitter that the thread I created about the story and all the criticism it received is "funny", the one with 100+ messages in it. So he thinks developed and honest criticism is "funny" ? That's some way of respecting your fans' opinions.

I am SOOOO sorry if I didn't create a thread saying "the story is perfect !" and I didn't even say it was bad. I just wanted to point out that the story seems to be one of the most mixed aspects of the game according to reviews and players. But since it's just funny to him ... I may as well stop caring about the franchise ...

Wolfmeister1010
12-10-2013, 02:57 AM
Well there's a subtle difference between saying "our story is good" and "we're proud of the story we created and we're sorry you didn't like it as much as we do" .

Darby tends to say the first.

He just said on Twitter that the thread I created about the story and all the criticism it received is "funny", the one with 100+ messages in it. So he thinks developed and honest criticism is "funny" ? That's some way of respecting your fans' opinions.

I am SOOOO sorry if I didn't create a thread saying "the story is perfect !" and I didn't even say it was bad. I just wanted to point out that the story seems to be one of the most mixed aspects of the game according to reviews and players. But since it's just funny to him ... I may as well stop caring about the franchise ...

Alright dont overreact. He can maybe be a little bit more understanding, but there is no need to say things like that

SixKeys
12-10-2013, 03:19 AM
"No more third person characters like Desmond for the forseeable future. But each game will have a unique approach to the present day. So no more Abstergo Entertainment either."

Now this sounds intriguing...

Wolfmeister1010
12-10-2013, 05:27 AM
"No more third person characters like Desmond for the forseeable future. But each game will have a unique approach to the present day. So no more Abstergo Entertainment either."

Now this sounds intriguing...

Ayg. He said you will play as..I guess "you" again, but ina different time period. Perhaps first civ. perhaps the aita/juno plot has us go back to visit the original Aita

killzab
12-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Alright dont overreact. He can maybe be a little bit more understanding, but there is no need to say things like that

I am not overreacting, I am just kinda angry. I didn't insult him, I just have issues with his attitude.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 11:13 AM
So many people in the game industry are just all "smile through their teeth" kind of people.

Agreed totally. ost people these days are the wishy washy-ahh you're right, we tried out best blablabla types. Mostly saying nothing worthwhile and sugercoating everything. I'd take an outspoken -and sometimes-disconcerting person over these types to whom talking is virtually useless.



I am SOOOO sorry if I didn't create a thread saying "the story is perfect !" and I didn't even say it was bad.

Well to be fair you did say the story kinda failed. That was the "consensus" Then asked why did it fail. To which I'm totally facepalming because I don't think the story failed at all. So I'm not included in this consensus, and none of my friends who've played it either. I think a better and non-funny thread would be the one in which you didn't already reach the conclusion in the OP and ask people what their thoughts are, to reach the conclusion. Asking people why it failed is kind of a loaded question. Maybe thats why he found it funny.

killzab
12-10-2013, 11:26 AM
Agreed totally. ost people these days are the wishy washy-ahh you're right, we tried out best blablabla types. Mostly saying nothing worthwhile and sugercoating everything. I'd take an outspoken -and sometimes-disconcerting person over these types to whom talking is virtually useless.



Well to be fair you did say the story kinda failed. That was the "consensus" Then asked why did it fail. To which I'm totally facepalming because I don't think the story failed at all. So I'm not included in this consensus, and none of my friends who've played it either. I think a better and non-funny thread would be the one in which you didn't already reach the conclusion in the OP and ask people what their thoughts are, to reach the conclusion. Asking people why it failed is kind of a loaded question. Maybe thats why he found it funny.

I didn't say the story failed, I said it's the one criticism that tends to come back the most in reviews.

Everytime I read a review, the reviewer complained more or less about it.

So after hearing SO MANY TIMES that the story was a little underwhelming, I wanted to discuss why and what should've been better.

And I'm entitled to my opinion..

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 11:31 AM
Ofcourse you are, but by the same token he's entitled to his opinions of your thread too. Y so offended? lol

silvermercy
12-10-2013, 11:33 AM
I am not overreacting, I am just kinda angry. I didn't insult him, I just have issues with his attitude.
wot? I don't see what you see to be honest. *perplexed* It's like you take it... I don't know... personally??

ze_topazio
12-10-2013, 11:33 AM
I'm not part of the consensus either because i enjoyed the story quite a lot too.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 11:34 AM
I'm not part of the consensus either because i enjoyed the story quite a lot too.

Should we build our own anti-consensus?!

silvermercy
12-10-2013, 11:36 AM
I'm not part of the consensus either because i enjoyed the story quite a lot too.
Indeed. That's what I hear from fans all around. They enjoyed the story. (I personally enjoyed all the spoilers so far. lol). So I don't agree with the other thread's title about this being a "consensus". Because it's quite the opposite in my experience: Most fans enjoyed it. THAT is the consensus.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 11:41 AM
You still haven't played it Silver?? what the...

killzab
12-10-2013, 11:49 AM
Indeed. That's what I hear from fans all around. They enjoyed the story. (I personally enjoyed all the spoilers so far. lol). So I don't agree with the other thread's title about this being a "consensus". Because it's quite the opposite in my experience: Most fans enjoyed it. THAT is the consensus.

Most reviewers didn't like the story, and many people on other forums too, like GAF or french boards.

I liked the story even though it's flawed so don't you think I'm a hater.

But to think a thread that tries to bring constructive criticism is "funny" shows some lack of respect over your fans' opinions.

And you guys also forget we have a seller/customer relationship with Ubisoft, we're not buddies with them, and we don't have to say everything they do is fine...

You guys assume when someone criticizes an aspect of the game then they're a hater. But it's wrong.

I am very critical, because I LOVE this series and I want it to be the best possible. I have high expectations from it. Doesn't mean I don't love the game though...

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 11:50 AM
The story sucked but I actually like his attitude though, makes me think Darby is a "**** the police" kinda guy.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 11:53 AM
The story sucked but I actually like his attitude though, makes me think Darby is a "**** the police" kinda guy.

U suck

Farlander1991
12-10-2013, 11:54 AM
Truth be told, that thread almost instantly transforms into an 'explain AC3's story/plot' for a pretty long while, so it is kinda funny in a way.

killzab
12-10-2013, 11:55 AM
Truth be told, that thread almost instantly transforms into an 'explain AC3's story/plot' for a pretty long while, so it is kinda funny in a way.

People are still angry about ACIII for some reason, they just can't let go apparently.

Everytime a new thread is created, someone says something about Connor or ACIII in general even though they're a thing of the past.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 11:56 AM
Truth be told, that thread almost instantly transforms into an 'explain AC3's story/plot' for a pretty long while, so it is kinda funny in a way.

And also the "describe the story in five words" threads.

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 12:02 PM
U sucku havn a chukl r ya?

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 12:06 PM
u havn a chukl r ya?

ys at ur expins

But seriously I remember you once saying TR has a better story than AC4. I can't disagree with it enough.. Now that I've finished it.

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 12:15 PM
ys at ur expins

But seriously I remember you once saying TR has a better story than AC4. I can't disagree with it enough.. Now that I've finished it.
I too remember me saying that, I also stand by that comment.

AC4's story is the weakest of all the AC's IMO.

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:22 PM
Most reviewers didn't like the story, and many people on other forums too, like GAF or french boards.

I liked the story even though it's flawed so don't you think I'm a hater.

But to think a thread that tries to bring constructive criticism is "funny" shows some lack of respect over your fans' opinions.

And you guys also forget we have a seller/customer relationship with Ubisoft, we're not buddies with them, and we don't have to say everything they do is fine...

You guys assume when someone criticizes an aspect of the game then they're a hater. But it's wrong.

I am very critical, because I LOVE this series and I want it to be the best possible. I have high expectations from it. Doesn't mean I don't love the game though...


To truely "love" something is to celebrate its successes and to accept it's imperfections, not to seek out all its flaws and seek to change them.

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:23 PM
People are still angry about ACIII for some reason, they just can't let go apparently.

Everytime a new thread is created, someone says something about Connor or ACIII in general even though they're a thing of the past.


Part of me thinks "Lots of butthurt patriots out there", because I've seen threads of people arguing about how the game "made Washington look bad."

Another part of me thinks "Ah...this is because the game wasn't 100% Haytham...and lots of people hate being teased with Haytham in the beginning."

And yet another part of me assumes it has something to do with losing Desmond...but I'm then confused because I thought most players despised Desmond.

I don't get it. I liked AC3. I mean... I guess I get it... but... somehow... I still don't REALLY get it.

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 12:33 PM
Part of me thinks "Lots of butthurt patriots out there", because I've seen threads of people arguing about how the game "made Washington look bad."

Another part of me thinks "Ah...this is because the game wasn't 100% Haytham...and lots of people hate being teased with Haytham in the beginning."

And yet another part of me assumes it has something to do with losing Desmond...but I'm then confused because I thought most players despised Desmond.

I don't get it. I liked AC3. I mean... I guess I get it... but... somehow... I still don't REALLY get it.You missed the part about crappy mission design, broken story, underutilized mechanics, terrible side missions (albeit some really good ones), terrible cities and no Frozen Lakes, or random events or big battles.

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:38 PM
You missed the part about crappy mission design, broken story, underutilized mechanics, terrible side missions (albeit some really good ones), terrible cities and no Frozen Lakes, or random events or big battles.

Given...some of those were legit reasons to have been disappointed, but I was commenting on why it seems some people are STILL upset about it like its a fresh wound.

killzab
12-10-2013, 12:38 PM
To truely "love" something is to celebrate its successes and to accept it's imperfections, not to seek out all its flaws and seek to change them.

I disagree, I can't "accept" imperfections. If no one complains then they won't ever try to improve and we'll be stuck with bad stealth, bad combat etc

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:38 PM
Also yeah... no frozen lakes....what was up with that?

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:39 PM
I disagree, I can't "accept" imperfections. If no one complains then they won't ever try to improve and we'll be stuck with bad stealth, bad combat etc

As "perfection" is an impossible state of being...one must be at least tolerant of imperfections in order to enjoy anything.

But what I meant by that was take for example AC3; people would say it had "problems". But in order to enjoy the game you have to accept the reality that is those imperfections. There is nothing wrong with making suggestions for future titles...but nothing comes from demanding they change AC3 (because we all know they won't.)

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 12:40 PM
Given...some of those were legit reasons to have been disappointed, but I was commenting on why it seems some people are STILL upset about it like its a fresh wound.Becuase when some (most) people look back it, they get a bad taste from it, they remember the bad parts of it because they didn't like it the first time.

killzab
12-10-2013, 12:42 PM
As "perfection" is an impossible state of being...one must be at least tolerant of imperfections in order to enjoy anything.

You missed the part where I said I liked the game, I put 50 hours into it and will play it again when I get a PS4.

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:44 PM
As I said, what I meant by that was acceptance of the current state of things, good and bad.

Take for example AC3; people would say it had "problems". But in order to enjoy the game you have to accept the reality that is those imperfections. There is nothing wrong with making suggestions for future titles...but nothing comes from demanding they change AC3 (because we all know they won't.)

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 12:48 PM
To put it in simpler terms "There's two types of people issuing criticism; those making constructive criticism and those that're complaining for the sake of complaining."

I'm not saying you're doing either. Just making a general observation about people who post criticisms.

We can make suggestions for what we'd like to see in future titles, but complaining about how they should change Black Flag is pointless.

killzab
12-10-2013, 12:53 PM
I know they won't change Black Flag, I didn't say that either.

Though we shouldn't have to assume they won't. If Ubisoft was a GREAT studio then they would try and improve their games even though they're already released.

Like what CD Projekt Red did with the Witcher 1 and 2.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 12:53 PM
AC4's story is the strongest of all the AC's IMO.

That's my opinion. I love TR but story is that game's legitimate weak link. I can't see how AC4 can possibly have worse story than that.

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 12:58 PM
That's my opinion. I love TR but story is that game's legitimate weak link. I can't see how AC4 can possibly have worse story than that.I feel the same about AC4. I can't see how TR could possibly have a worse story than that. I just felt AC4's was so simple and at the start it felt rushed, like it wasn't sure on what game it was trying to be, then their were underdeveloped characters and a bad modern day ending. It also lacked that feeling of actually learning something historical, something I love about AC's.

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 01:01 PM
I know they won't change Black Flag, I didn't say that either.

Though we shouldn't have to assume they won't. If Ubisoft was a GREAT studio then they would try and improve their games even though they're already released.

Like what CD Projekt Red did with the Witcher 1 and 2.


I didn't say you did... in fact I specifically said that I wasn't saying you said that.

And there would be those that disagree with you. Look at the recent Bioware scandal that erupted with ME3 and the massive fan assault to "change the ending". Personally I REALLY liked what came out of that....but there were many fans and devs and critics that think the company messed up by giving in to fan demands...and that they may have set a dangerous precedent for devs of other game that aren't well received.

killzab
12-10-2013, 01:04 PM
I didn't say you did... in fact I specifically said that I wasn't saying you said that.

And there would be those that disagree with you. Look at the recent Bioware scandal that erupted with ME3 and the massive fan assault to "change the ending". Personally I REALLY liked what came out of that....but there were many fans and devs and critics that think the company messed up by giving in to fan demands...and that they may have set a dangerous precedent for devs of other game that aren't well received.

Well that's quite a debate actually.

But I'm more on the side of giving fans what they want. For example, I think the Extended Cut salvaged the whole Mass Effect series ... Enhanced editions of the Witcher are great etc...

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 01:07 PM
Well that's quite a debate actually.

But I'm more on the side of giving fans what they want. For example, I think the Extended Cut salvaged the whole Mass Effect series ... Enhanced editions of the Witcher are great etc...

Personally I have to agree that the EC saved the ME series. Without it..... I don't think I'd have ever touched the series again.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 01:11 PM
I feel the same about AC4. I can't see how TR could possibly have a worse story than that. I just felt AC4's was so simple and at the start it felt rushed, like it wasn't sure on what game it was trying to be, then their were underdeveloped characters and a bad modern day ending. It also lacked that feeling of actually learning something historical, something I love about AC's.

AC4's characters can't be more underdeveloped than TR's. That's not an opinion, its a FACT!

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 01:13 PM
Whats TR? I'm not matching it up with anything in my head games library.

killzab
12-10-2013, 01:16 PM
Whats TR? I'm not matching it up with anything in my head games library.

Tomb Raider

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 01:17 PM
AC4's characters can't be more underdeveloped than TR's. That's not an opinion, its a FACT!Yea but no one cares cause they all sucked, except the big Kiwi dude. AC4 had pirates, they neglected pirates, how do you neglect pirates?

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 01:18 PM
Ooooooooooooooooooooh yeeeeeeeeeeeah.... I forgot about that.

Farlander1991
12-10-2013, 01:22 PM
Though we shouldn't have to assume they won't. If Ubisoft was a GREAT studio then they would try and improve their games even though they're already released.

Like what CD Projekt Red did with the Witcher 1 and 2.

As much as I love CD Projekt, comparing it and Ubisoft is unreasonable. CD Projekt is a self-funding studio that just recently got to a size of 100 people, works on one (well, right now two) that also runs GOG and therefore gets enough money to fund their one/two projects and their people.

Ubi hosts almost 10,000 employees. They have to pay salaries to all of them, as well as provide with all the workplaces, computers, software, etc. Stuff like spending a year working on an enchanted edition of a game is not... really viable for them.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 01:25 PM
Yea but no one cares cause they all sucked, except the big Kiwi dude. AC4 had pirates, they neglected pirates, how do you neglect pirates?

They didn't. Thats how.

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 01:27 PM
They didn't. Thats how.Blackbeard had like 8 lines, well maybe 12 but he didn't even have his tank beard for most of the game, it was just a "I never shave hipster beard".

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 01:33 PM
Blackbeard had like 8 lines, well maybe 12 but he didn't even have his tank beard for most of the game, it was just a "I never shave hipster beard".

I'd let Farlander speak on how AC2 had worse developed characters. Just don't cry :p *takes up position on the watchtower*

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 01:33 PM
As much as I love CD Projekt, comparing it and Ubisoft is unreasonable. CD Projekt is a self-funding studio that just recently got to a size of 100 people, works on one (well, right now two) that also runs GOG and therefore gets enough money to fund their one/two projects and their people.

Ubi hosts almost 10,000 employees. They have to pay salaries to all of them, as well as provide with all the workplaces, computers, software, etc. Stuff like spending a year working on an enchanted edition of a game is not... really viable for them.Ubisofts profit is much bigger though, Ubi makes billions of dollars every year while CDPR would make around 50 million, especially with their only big game being The Witcher and that only comes out every couple of years and doesn't appeal to a huge demographic like most of Ubi's big games. So Ubi definitely has the time, money and resources to do enhanced editions, although I can see why they don't,

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 01:35 PM
I'd let Farlander speak on how AC2 had worse developed characters. Just don't cry :p *takes up position on the watchtower*But then I'd say that AC2 got better reviews, which directly proves that AC2 had better developed characters.

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 01:37 PM
But then I'd say that AC2 got better reviews, which directly proves that AC2 had better developed characters.

Aha noice. Carry on then nga

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 01:38 PM
Ubisofts profit is much bigger though, Ubi makes billions of dollars every year while CDPR would make around 50 million, especially with their only big game being The Witcher and that only comes out every couple of years and doesn't appeal to a huge demographic like most of Ubi's big games. So Ubi definitely has the time, money and resources to do enhanced editions, although I can see why they don't,

Corporates are like Edward. When they are small they are all humble and hard-working. When they grow bigger, greed is all they can see. or like Walter White.

roostersrule2
12-10-2013, 01:42 PM
Corporates are like Edward. When they are small they are all humble and hard-working. When they grow bigger, greed is all they can see. or like Walter White.Walter White had glasses, so he can't see to well. I guess it's why Ubi never saw my idea of making an AC sitcom a good one.

Farlander1991
12-10-2013, 01:48 PM
I'd let Farlander speak on how AC2 had worse developed characters. Just don't cry :p *takes up position on the watchtower*

How did I suddenly get into this? :p

killzab
12-10-2013, 01:50 PM
You guys are entertaining !

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 02:03 PM
I just imagine a debate done by circus bears on tiny bicycles. Now THAT is entertainment!

pirate1802
12-10-2013, 02:11 PM
How did I suddenly get into this? :p

I liked you post on AC4 story in the "consensus" thread, so.. Hope you didn't mind. :p

killzab
12-10-2013, 05:23 PM
What factors go into deciding how much of the modern day storyline gets told in a game?

This is a very complicated process. Many fans love the modern day setting, but the mainstream press isn't usually so kind. A huge majority of the mainstream and casual fans think we should drop it. Well... we like it because it ties all the games together, but we also realize that we need to make it appealing and accessible so that fans who don't play every single game don't feel alienated and left out of the ongoing story. This is why we want to make each present day story from now on a little more "self contained". So the mandate is usually, "short but sweet."


Damn that pisses me off...

Why dumb down the story for players who are not commited to the franchise ? So actually being a fan means being screwed over ?

They prefer catering to kids that only play Black Flag for the " bad *** pirate " aspect rather than fans like me who've followed the franchise and speculated about it for 6 years ...

If they don't understand something they can look it up on wikipedia or play the previous games ... :mad:

Shahkulu101
12-10-2013, 05:27 PM
Damn, they were going to have investigations for the assassination missions after Edward is accepted by Ah Tabai. That would have been awesome.

SixKeys
12-10-2013, 05:29 PM
What factors go into deciding how much of the modern day storyline gets told in a game?

This is a very complicated process. Many fans love the modern day setting, but the mainstream press isn't usually so kind. A huge majority of the mainstream and casual fans think we should drop it. Well... we like it because it ties all the games together, but we also realize that we need to make it appealing and accessible so that fans who don't play every single game don't feel alienated and left out of the ongoing story. This is why we want to make each present day story from now on a little more "self contained". So the mandate is usually, "short but sweet."


Damn that pisses me off...

Why dumb down the story for players who are not commited to the franchise ? So actually being a fan means being screwed over ?

They prefer catering to kids that only play Black Flag for the " bad *** pirate " aspect rather than fans like me who've followed the franchise and speculated about it for 6 years ...

If they don't understand something they can look it up on wikipedia or play the previous games ... :mad:

Think about it from Ubisoft's perspective. Let's say they will make a minimum of 10 more AC games, probably even more. That's 10 years of story to keep track of for new fans. If you have a little brother or sister, they will be 10 years older by the time Assassin's Creed XIV: The Quest for More Money comes out. Think about that. Do you honestly think it's fair for the writers of these games to keep track of their ridiculously complicated modern day story lines for another 10 years? Hell, one of the reasons I don't want to get into MGS is because I know there's a ton of complex backstory and I'm not interested in going back to play every game released since the 1990s to get up to speed.

killzab
12-10-2013, 05:31 PM
Think about it from Ubisoft's perspective. Let's say they will make a minimum of 10 more AC games, probably even more. That's 10 years of story to keep track of for new fans. If you have a little brother or sister, they will be 10 years older by the time Assassin's Creed 14: The Quest for More Money comes out. Think about that. Do you honestly think it's fair for the writers of these games to keep track of their ridiculously complicated modern day story lines for another 10 years? Hell, one of the reasons I don't want to get into MGS is because I know there's a ton of compex backstory and I'm not interested in going back to play every game released since the 1990s to get up to speed.

Why are you not interested in going back ? There's so many sites that sum up the whole story.

The games are good anyway and you're missing out.

I will never understand people that begin a series with number 3 or 4....

SixKeys
12-10-2013, 05:40 PM
Why are you not interested in going back ? There's so many sites that sum up the whole story.

The games are good anyway and you're missing out.

I will never understand people that begin a series with number 3 or 4....

I don't care about summaries. I care about experiencing the whole story. If I can't do that (i.e. don't have the time or energy to play all the games from two decades), I'm not going to be satisfied reading someone else's nutshell review of each game. I'm not going to have any attachment to existing characters if I've simply read their names on a Wiki page. How different do you think playing AC would be for someone who read about Lucy's death on the Wiki before playing the series themselves? They would have a completely different experience than the rest of us who were shocked when it happened.

killzab
12-10-2013, 05:42 PM
I don't care about summaries. I care about experiencing the whole story. If I can't do that (i.e. don't have the time or energy to play all the games from two decades), I'm not going to be satisfied reading someone else's nutshell review of each game. I'm not going to have any attachment to existing characters if I've simply read their names on a Wiki page. How different do you think playing AC would be for someone who read about Lucy's death on the Wiki before playing the series themselves? They would have a completely different experience than the rest of us who were shocked when it happened.

Then you have no issue screwing people who've grown attached to said characters because you don't want to bother playing the previous games ?

SixKeys
12-10-2013, 05:49 PM
Then you have no issue screwing people who've grown attached to said characters because you don't want to bother playing the previous games ?

I only have a problem when existing plotlines are dropped without proper explanation, as AC has been known to do. I'm not excusing that. But AC4's modern day story is actually a pretty cool concept on its own, and seems like a good compromise. Those of us who still like mysteries and puzzles can have them, and those who would rather ignore modern day entirely (which includes some longtime fans of the series, mind) can also do that. It may not be a perfect solution, but it's better than creating another third-person modern protagonist and give him/her all these cool plot threads, only to drop them before they are properly concluded.

lothario-da-be
12-10-2013, 06:23 PM
Choosing new kids over the hardcore fans is a true as*hole attitiude imo. Ive got nothing more to say about that.

Landruner
12-10-2013, 06:30 PM
Most reviewers didn't like the story, and many people on other forums too, like GAF or french boards.

I liked the story even though it's flawed so don't you think I'm a hater.

But to think a thread that tries to bring constructive criticism is "funny" shows some lack of respect over your fans' opinions.

And you guys also forget we have a seller/customer relationship with Ubisoft, we're not buddies with them, and we don't have to say everything they do is fine...

You guys assume when someone criticizes an aspect of the game then they're a hater. But it's wrong.

I am very critical, because I LOVE this series and I want it to be the best possible. I have high expectations from it. Doesn't mean I don't love the game though...

Fist of Killzab you are not a hater (I read a lot of your posts and I can tell you are not one)

I am going to say, as an author and if you don't accept the critics or suggestions you tend to stay in the linearity and the mediocrity. Darby's credentials toward writing stories as a long way to go. In short: he should accept the critic as a learning process and not as a personal offence.

killzab
12-10-2013, 06:41 PM
Fist of Killzab you are not a hater (I read a lot of your posts and I can tell you are not one)

I am going to say, as an author and if you don't accept the critics or suggestions you tend to stay in the linearity and the mediocrity. Darby's credentials toward writing stories as a long way to go. In short: he should accept the critic as a learning process and not as a personal offence.

Thanks for the support mon pote :)

Landruner
12-10-2013, 06:45 PM
What factors go into deciding how much of the modern day storyline gets told in a game?

This is a very complicated process. Many fans love the modern day setting, but the mainstream press isn't usually so kind. A huge majority of the mainstream and casual fans think we should drop it. Well... we like it because it ties all the games together, but we also realize that we need to make it appealing and accessible so that fans who don't play every single game don't feel alienated and left out of the ongoing story. This is why we want to make each present day story from now on a little more "self contained". So the mandate is usually, "short but sweet."


Damn that pisses me off...

Why dumb down the story for players who are not commited to the franchise ? So actually being a fan means being screwed over ?

They prefer catering to kids that only play Black Flag for the " bad *** pirate " aspect rather than fans like me who've followed the franchise and speculated about it for 6 years ...

If they don't understand something they can look it up on wikipedia or play the previous games ... :mad:

I was talking about that 2 weeks ago and posted some stuff about it not long time ago, apparently the age range for the people playing the series went younger than it used to be - Since AC3 release that is and More and less pre-teens 10 up to 14 that play the game(s) now. So, yep the all gear of the franchise goes down the drain for the older and more mature or long time followers of this franchise. Like I joked with another user the US M rating does not stand any longer as M for Mature game, but indeed M for Middle School!!!:rolleyes:

Farlander1991
12-10-2013, 06:51 PM
When discussing Modern Day, let's not forget that Ubi doesn't have enough resources to properly implement a third-person detailed modern day world. Something evidenced by AC1-AC3, where even AC3 with all its budget and people working on it didn't have enough manpower to fully realize the modern day parts. Percentage-wise modern day is always going to have less resources allocated to it. Ergo more puzzle-based first-person sections in contained environments are more effective - you can do them justice (and, I personally think that AC4 did that). Not to mention the parallel development process, which we all know how it affected Desmond's Saga - in a pretty bad way. Which is also not a problem when the modern day plot is somewhat simpler. And then the developers just add as much side-content as possible to make the fans happy (and if something gets cut out, it doesn't happen to the detriment of the plot, which, once again, was a problem with Desmond's Saga). It's a very effective way of doing things, given the way AC franchise development works, and seeing what we had in the end with Desmond's Story, I'll take that.

(btw, this is something that Darby mentioned in the same Q&A as well).

Landruner
12-10-2013, 07:06 PM
I only have a problem when existing plotlines are dropped without proper explanation, as AC has been known to do. I'm not excusing that. But AC4's modern day story is actually a pretty cool concept on its own, and seems like a good compromise. Those of us who still like mysteries and puzzles can have them, and those who would rather ignore modern day entirely (which includes some longtime fans of the series, mind) can also do that. It may not be a perfect solution, but it's better than creating another third-person modern protagonist and give him/her all these cool plot threads, only to drop them before they are properly concluded.

You probably don't remember on our little chat in last October when I was mentioning this and what you wrote above and you came after my post thinking that I was whining for Connor not having a proper story, the ending of AC3 was going no where, and you were writing that it was just character(s)! so, who cares?! - Well, like I told you back in time, that is sad that if you want to fill the gaps and plot holes in the game(s), go buy other media the explanation are there. That one of the problem I have with the all franchise as well - That they made other media at the disposition of the fan is cool, but that those other media give you the story in order to fill the gaps for the game you play, not that much cool.

Now as a second point, I am sure about 60% up to 70% of the people that play the games now pick the story from AC3 and they did not play the previous ones, so effectively "nothing is true and everything is permitted" with what ever direction the future games can go and if they match with the past or not, what should Ubisoft cares since a very few of people are going to check the continuity of the story arc or else.

Landruner
12-10-2013, 07:17 PM
When discussing Modern Day, let's not forget that Ubi doesn't have enough resources to properly implement a third-person detailed modern day world. Something evidenced by AC1-AC3, where even AC3 with all its budget and people working on it didn't have enough manpower to fully realize the modern day parts. Percentage-wise modern day is always going to have less resources allocated to it. Ergo more puzzle-based first-person sections in contained environments are more effective - you can do them justice (and, I personally think that AC4 did that). Not to mention the parallel development process, which we all know how it affected Desmond's Saga - in a pretty bad way. Which is also not a problem when the modern day plot is somewhat simpler. And then the developers just add as much side-content as possible to make the fans happy (and if something gets cut out, it doesn't happen to the detriment of the plot, which, once again, was a problem with Desmond's Saga). It's a very effective way of doing things, given the way AC franchise development works, and seeing what we had in the end with Desmond's Story, I'll take that.

(btw, this is something that Darby mentioned in the same Q&A as well).

You have to translate what they say and especially what Darby says or wrote, the real story long before for ACR: they did not have time to make something beside what Darby already wrote for the 3DS game that got cancelled and tuner into ACR and Corey May came to work on something for the modern days.
However; the executives did not want to give asset and time for this since the November 2011 release date was already decided and also the executives did not want to postpone the title release because already the modern days were not that popular (at least Not enough for Ubisoft executives to consider as a vital factor for the series) - The modern days became consequently a feature attached to the trademark of the franchise, it is nothing more than that.

DarktheMagister
12-10-2013, 09:35 PM
On one hand...I see why they would do modern day this way (especially since it's an extended universe series now)...but I'd prefer if they made the puzzles more than just glorified mini-games.

On the other hand... I don't see why they don't just do intro clips at the beginning to catch up new series players like they did with AC3. I thought William's monologue at the start quite easily summed up the story.

dxsxhxcx
12-10-2013, 11:16 PM
a shame to see how much the development process suffer just because the higher ups can't hold their greed...

SixKeys
12-10-2013, 11:22 PM
You probably don't remember on our little chat in last October when I was mentioning this and what you wrote above and you came after my post thinking that I was whining for Connor not having a proper story, the ending of AC3 was going no where, and you were writing that it was just character(s)! so, who cares?! - Well, like I told you back in time, that is sad that if you want to fill the gaps and plot holes in the game(s), go buy other media the explanation are there. That one of the problem I have with the all franchise as well - That they made other media at the disposition of the fan is cool, but that those other media give you the story in order to fill the gaps for the game you play, not that much cool.

Now as a second point, I am sure about 60% up to 70% of the people that play the games now pick the story from AC3 and they did not play the previous ones, so effectively "nothing is true and everything is permitted" with what ever direction the future games can go and if they match with the past or not, what should Ubisoft cares since a very few of people are going to check the continuity of the story arc or else.

You're right, I don't remember that discussion. I'm pretty sure you're taking some of what I said out of context because I totally agree that important plot points should not be shuffled over to other media. The main story should be self-contained and understandable based purely on the games alone. With that said, Connor's story was complete in AC3. Nothing vital to the overall plot was left out. Sure, there were cuts, like his final speech, but removing it did not make the story any more confusing or difficult to understand. If I said that fans who want more Connor should fill the gaps with other media or in their heads, it's because whatever gaps are left to fill are largely irrelevant. The bigger problem was the modern day story which DID have legitimate gaps and was not worked out in such a satisfying way that it didn't ultimately leave fans with more questions than answers.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 01:42 AM
Okay so if I understand they're will be no more modern-day protag?

F*** this ***, I'm out, AC is DEAD.

MIA SILENT
12-11-2013, 01:55 AM
Okay so if I understand they're will be no more modern-day protag?

F*** this ***, I'm out, AC is DEAD.

What did you love most about the modern day - The lore, or Desmond?

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 02:05 AM
What did you love most about the modern day - The lore, or Desmond?

There is no more lore without Desmond. Just sayin'

Now then can push some infos, but you definitevely CAN'T have a story-line with a silent protag' that's just impossible. I want AC1 modern-day type, it was perfect, then they wanted to have some gameplay with D. a mistake. I always saw AC divided like this:

Modern Day = Story line
Past Days = Gameplay

Now don't get me wrong, the past time can have a good story-line, it has too, but only to serve the Moder Day plot and brining some deep in the A/ T conflict. Basically just like it was in AC1.

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 02:28 AM
There is no more lore without Desmond. Just sayin'

Now then can push some infos, but you definitevely CAN'T have a story-line with a silent protag' that's just impossible. I want AC1 modern-day type, it was perfect, then they wanted to have some gameplay with D. a mistake. I always saw AC divided like this:

Modern Day = Story line
Past Days = Gameplay

Now don't get me wrong, the past time can have a good story-line, it has too, but only to serve the Moder Day plot and brining some deep in the A/ T conflict. Basically just like it was in AC1.

AC4 has several huge plots in the modern day.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 02:38 AM
AC4 has several huge plots in the modern day.

It had ONE.

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 02:55 AM
It had ONE.

Really? I can name... at least five, maybe six easily.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 03:19 AM
Really? I can name... at least five, maybe six easily.

Let's go then:

The Sage
...Olivier-who-does-care?

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 03:37 AM
Let's go then:

The Sage
...Olivier-who-does-care?

"The Sage" is a very broad point. As "The Sage" we not only learn that he's The Sage, but Abstergo now has his DNA. Which leads me to the remaining plots.
- Subject Zero. and the Surrogate Initiative. Without that, we wouldn't be able to experience other people's ancestor's through their DNA.
- This creates another plot point in that Abstergo could use his DNA to experience the Precursor epoch.
- Vidic, with a very strong possibility that he killed Aileen Bock, out of jealousy and selfishness.
- Olivier, and his condition
- Juno, and her condition
- Rebecca and Shaun, both trying to find out what happened to Desmond
and lastly,
- William, who went into hiding and basically gave up being an Assassin (though to be fair, this is part of AC Initiates and not in-game)

Landruner
12-11-2013, 03:54 AM
If you read what Darby wrote back to an user asking on the modern days continuity on Initiates, Darby said that the modern days will have less and less meaning for the next installation of the series, meaning like I wrote before the modern days are just a special features that comes in the package because it is part of the AC trademark - Nothing more nothing else.
I deplore it, but I am not really surprised that they do that neither.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 03:55 AM
"The Sage" is a very broad point. As "The Sage" we not only learn that he's The Sage, but Abstergo now has his DNA. Which leads me to the remaining plots.
- Subject Zero. and the Surrogate Initiative. Without that, we wouldn't be able to experience other people's ancestor's through their DNA.
- This creates another plot point in that Abstergo could use his DNA to experience the Precursor epoch.
- Vidic, with a very strong possibility that he killed Aileen Bock, out of jealousy and selfishness.
- Olivier, and his condition
- Juno, and her condition
- Rebecca and Shaun, both trying to find out what happened to Desmond
and lastly,
- William, who went into hiding and basically gave up being an Assassin (though to be fair, this is part of AC Initiates and not in-game)

But the Sage thing is useless since the next ont won't come back until devs know how much time, and Abstergo can reach TWCB epoch with anyone, the problem is that is takes a lot of time. The blood vials were a solution, since they were directly taken from Precursors...but they decided to drop this off to with saying that they can't be used.

Subject Zero is...nice, but that's it, it doens't pushes the actual plot or impact it in any way. You just feel like ''ooh, interesting''. And for Vidic it adds to his character but seeing how badly they've used him...

Oliver plot was pointless, as much a Juno's one.

Rebecca & Shaun infiltrating Abstergo doesn't make any sense AT ALL. ABstergo has photos of their faces, they know who they are since Lucy probably gave Abstergo names, how is it that they can get in and out with no problem????

Will, well, sad.

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 04:01 AM
Because, as Darby said, Abstergo Entertainment isn't Templarville. It's literally a gaming company where Shaun is working for a third party coffee stand company that has no real relation to Abstergo. Rebecca is the same way, but working for a courier.

And even though the others may or may not be used, they're still plots, even if they're interesting. They could have just neglected to mention how observing others DNA was just something that could be done, but they put a nice backstory to it.

They're all still major plots, and important as a whole.

AdamPearce
12-11-2013, 04:07 AM
Because, as Darby said, Abstergo Entertainment isn't Templarville. It's literally a gaming company where Shaun is working for a third party coffee stand company that has no real relation to Abstergo. Rebecca is the same way, but working for a courier.

And even though the others may or may not be used, they're still plots, even if they're interesting. They could have just neglected to mention how observing others DNA was just something that could be done, but they put a nice backstory to it.

They're all still major plots, and important as a whole.

Well that must be before he decided to include the Bunker. It's controlled by Templars for Templars.

And the only plot that is going on right now is Juno's possible return.

Landruner
12-11-2013, 05:08 AM
You're right, I don't remember that discussion. I'm pretty sure you're taking some of what I said out of context because I totally agree that important plot points should not be shuffled over to other media. The main story should be self-contained and understandable based purely on the games alone. With that said, Connor's story was complete in AC3. Nothing vital to the overall plot was left out. Sure, there were cuts, like his final speech, but removing it did not make the story any more confusing or difficult to understand. If I said that fans who want more Connor should fill the gaps with other media or in their heads, it's because whatever gaps are left to fill are largely irrelevant. The bigger problem was the modern day story which DID have legitimate gaps and was not worked out in such a satisfying way that it didn't ultimately leave fans with more questions than answers.

No no it is not out of contest because you and I had a little exchange about it with you (I remember writing to you dumb,dumb,dumb. in my response because you obviously thought that I was whining for Connor not having an ending whereas I was concerned by all the plots holes of the stories and I remember it because it was even following a conversation with "AdventureWomen" and you told me that they were just characters, and people should get over it because they were just characters whereas my all point was not only because of the characters, but the plots just being expanded over other media rather than being explained on the game themselves.

My point back in time is that Connor, Ezio, Desmond or whatever characters and even the secondary characters past or modern days should have more respect in the continuity of the story and its arc, not because I am a fanboy of those guys, just because I like having a story that makes sense in front of my eyes while I play a game and I like to know what is going on without having to put the game and going in seek of my answers.
If I read a book and I see that for understanding one of the part of a chapter I have to rent or buy the movie of this book in order to find of the explanation I need ,well it bugs me and I should not have to do that.

That is the problem I have with the recent games now is that too many of the plots or characters development are skipped or not deeply explained in game since they can be found on other media, those media should be complementary, but not compulsory in order to know or understand what is going on. Besides it bugs me a bit to think that the novels are more interesting than the games they got inspired by - If a video gamer is going to ask me if he/she should buy AC3 and 4, I would say, well, just skip the games and go buying Forsaken instead like that you have the all story and trust me the novel is better that the games themselves.

My all point back in time that I was also debating on the all story arc of the Assassin creed stories including the orientation of those modern days.

For the modern days that is the same reproach since I saw it from the beginning as a huge piece of science fiction, like it or not the all concept was a huge and mega piece of science fiction. I
never been a huge fan of those modern days mostly because I did not like Desmond too much, but however; like a lot of people I am sure, I tried to follow the plot until I understood that not only it was disappointing in AC3 and not especially because the Desmond ending, but the all ending disappointed me by its lack of climax to the point of thinking, how that is the biggest let down and the lamest video game ending I ever seen in ages.

Now for AC4,I was not expecting too much and I was right since the modern days just goes no where. and for me the all lore and structure of this franchise is falling apart since it is obvious that the modern days are not any longer part of the arc story for making sense, but just a trademark feature made at the disposition of the ones that want to play it, nothing more than that.

On Initiates I just read Darby responding to an user that the modern days will be just facultative and less and less relevant, so this is where the all Assassin creed philosophy goes, the modern days will stand as a features that gives for the players hints for the next coming up game...or sort of.

DarktheMagister
12-11-2013, 05:57 AM
If you read what Darby wrote back to an user asking on the modern days continuity on Initiates, Darby said that the modern days will have less and less meaning for the next installation of the series, meaning like I wrote before the modern days are just a special features that comes in the package because it is part of the AC trademark - Nothing more nothing else.
I deplore it, but I am not really surprised that they do that neither.

Darby said that the next coming title would continue with a current style modern day....which makes sense because the next title is already past the storyboarding phase.... but that doesn't mean things will NEVER go back to how they were.

Remember.... it is safe to assume that the next title was in development before the release of Black Flag.

pirate1802
12-11-2013, 06:15 AM
Remember.... it is safe to assume that the next title was in development before the release of Black Flag.

Not just safe to assume.. we knew it for a while? What was that news about Jade Raymond working on the next AC?

Btw, I'd be that longtime fan who has no interest in modern day parts whatsoever. And I found the AC4 system perfect. Want to explore the modern day parts? Sure, do that. Want to be left alone and not repeatedly interrupted to perform some poorly-made missions? Yay! I can finally do that as well. Never spent a second outside the Animus in AC4 more than what was mandatory, still haven't got any desire to do so, Its all useless meh filler stuf for me, always was since AC1. So please don't assume that all those don't like the modern day crap are casual and newbies, and all "h4rdc0R3" fans LOVE the modern day parts. :) kthnxbai

DarktheMagister
12-11-2013, 06:36 AM
Not just safe to assume.. we knew it for a while? What was that news about Jade Raymond working on the next AC?

Btw, I'd be that longtime fan who has no interest in modern day parts whatsoever. And I found the AC4 system perfect. Want to explore the modern day parts? Sure, do that. Want to be left alone and not repeatedly interrupted to perform some poorly-made missions? Yay! I can finally do that as well. Never spent a second outside the Animus in AC4 more than what was mandatory, still haven't got any desire to do so, Its all useless meh filler stuf for me, always was since AC1. So please don't assume that all those don't like the modern day crap are casual and newbies, and all "h4rdc0R3" fans LOVE the modern day parts. :) kthnxbai


This is true... there are quite a few long timers that don't enjoy the Modern Day story.

The way I've always felt about it is "if the historical conspiracy, mystery, and the potential "What if" reality of the games are what draw you to the title (like it is for me) then you'll really enjoy the modern day. Whereas if its more about the parkour/stealth gameplay and the historical setting that draws you, then the game inside the Animus is more suited for you."

pirate1802
12-11-2013, 06:47 AM
I'd be the second group, honestly I won't even notice the difference if they made an AC completely inside the Animus. It would even be a plus for me. It was irritating to set sail for Havana with Bonnet and then pulled out of it to be given a virtual tour. Btw my comment wasn't aimed at you :p It was towards the person who was acting like Darby's comment was a slap in the face for all hardcore fans. It might be to some, heck most for all I care, but not ALL. So don't act like it is some uniform injustice to all long time fans. Some might even be delighted by this news, like I am. Its getting too ridiculous anyway, with ghost momma appearing outta the machine and sermonizing you and all. The only bit I liked was the IT guy turning out to be the Sage fella. But then they killed him. So not sure what the significance of it was.

Farlander1991
12-11-2013, 08:35 AM
You have to translate what they say and especially what Darby says or wrote, the real story long before for ACR: they did not have time to make something beside what Darby already wrote for the 3DS game that got cancelled and tuner into ACR and Corey May came to work on something for the modern days.
However; the executives did not want to give asset and time for this since the November 2011 release date was already decided and also the executives did not want to postpone the title release because already the modern days were not that popular (at least Not enough for Ubisoft executives to consider as a vital factor for the series) - The modern days became consequently a feature attached to the trademark of the franchise, it is nothing more than that.

I know how AC:R development went, I talked with Ubi employees about that. At any rate, a) you have some weird assumptions there regarding the reason the title release wasn't postponed, and b) what you say doesn't contradict or conflict with anything what I said - regardless of the scope of the project, modern day is always going to have much less resources allocated to it proportionally because of all the historical stuff that has to be done.

MnemonicSyntax
12-11-2013, 04:27 PM
the IT guy turning out to be the Sage fella. But then they killed him. So not sure what the significance of it was.

Well, Abstergo now has his DNA, so there's that.

SixKeys
12-11-2013, 05:35 PM
My point back in time is that Connor, Ezio, Desmond or whatever characters and even the secondary characters past or modern days should have more respect in the continuity of the story and its arc, not because I am a fanboy of those guys, just because I like having a story that makes sense in front of my eyes while I play a game and I like to know what is going on without having to put the game and going in seek of my answers.
If I read a book and I see that for understanding one of the part of a chapter I have to rent or buy the movie of this book in order to find of the explanation I need ,well it bugs me and I should not have to do that.

That's exactly what I said earlier. Connor's story was complete in AC3 and I didn't need to buy any books or other media in order to figure out the plot of the game. So I guess we're in agreement?

pirate1802
12-11-2013, 05:42 PM
Well, Abstergo now has his DNA, so there's that.

But you could have had the whole man. Whats the point in showing us a guy who is supposedly alive in different forms since TWCB days and then promptly kill him? If they just needed his DNA they'd not have him physically before your face. That seems to indicate he isn't dead and somehow survived the shot and is imprisoned in Abstergo.

pacmanate
12-11-2013, 07:33 PM
But you could have had the whole man. Whats the point in showing us a guy who is supposedly alive in different forms since TWCB days and then promptly kill him? If they just needed his DNA they'd not have him physically before your face. That seems to indicate he isn't dead and somehow survived the shot and is imprisoned in Abstergo.

Because it shows Abstergo now have the Sage's DNA and know where the Observatory is and know what a Sage is.

It does not indicate he is not dead at all. All they need is his DNA, a blood sample.

Landruner
12-12-2013, 12:04 AM
That's exactly what I said earlier. Connor's story was complete in AC3 and I didn't need to buy any books or other media in order to figure out the plot of the game. So I guess we're in agreement?

Yes we are in agreement

Landruner
12-12-2013, 01:02 AM
Darby said that the next coming title would continue with a current style modern day....which makes sense because the next title is already past the storyboarding phase.... but that doesn't mean things will NEVER go back to how they were.

Remember.... it is safe to assume that the next title was in development before the release of Black Flag.

Remember it is save to assume that they have no clue how to deal with the modern days at all, it will be more appropriate... :p

Hrafnagud72
12-12-2013, 03:34 AM
So, playing the last couple of AC games I have more or less decided that AC has reached it's end for me. I really started to lose hope with AC3 and I took a chance on AC4 anyways. While the game play was much improved from AC3 I still felt the story lacking. To me, a game like this should be driven forward by the story. That it should be a playable movie, more or less. With the responses from Ubisoft and just the directions they are choosing, this franchise doesn't hold much for the adult gamer anymore. It is geared toward young teens. I have found myself at the close of my personal stakes in the franchise.

Now, about this dude Darby...Arrogance. The guy says that story isn't important, that the game play is what is important. And then later goes on to say that the story is what is really important. This guy has no clue what he is talking about. I can understand being proud of your work. But his attitude is suggestive of basically giving the customer a middle finger. He basically says in a lot more words, "I liked the story, so I don't care what you liked. I write what I want to write." In fact, at one point someone mentions that they were disappointed that the story line was flat in the modern day sequences, his words, "Oh well! I liked it." When you are writing material for a game like this, the customer is not someone you should be spitting on. The customers are why there are billions of dollars in profits, so be a little more appreciative of what they have to say. Even if you don't agree with it, you have to acknowledge that their points are valid. That is business 101. I'm not taking what the guy says personally, I'm just speaking from a business owner stand point. Bad move on his part. Though I'm sure he doesn't care because he doesn't have a business to run, he just collects a pay check.

DarktheMagister
12-12-2013, 03:58 AM
Remember it is save to assume that they have no clue how to deal with the modern days at all, it will be more appropriate... :p

How so. As I see it they handled the complaints of the public rather well. Users hated Desmond and gave him lots of crap. So they removed him and made a majority of the modern plot in game "optional" for those players that didn't care about the overarching story and just wanted to play around in the past. But for those that enjoyed it....there is still all the conspiracy and mystery and Templar/Assassin shenanigans; there is still the mystery and threat of Juno and what she is plotting. Not to mention that the modern story has migrate from being encapsulated in the games to being a living tale happening across multiple media outlets and sources (i.e. Initiates, Comics, etc.)

I don't understand why the opponents of the modern day aren't HAPPY with how it is now... They can mostly skip it and not have to deal with it and just play stabby stabby assassin.

If anything... my one complaint about the modern day gameplay was that the puzzles were FAR too simple. I wanted the return of the rune type puzzles in AC2.

pirate1802
12-12-2013, 04:12 AM
Because it shows Abstergo now have the Sage's DNA and know where the Observatory is and know what a Sage is.

It does not indicate he is not dead at all. All they need is his DNA, a blood sample.

Ofcourse. I was merely speculating. However the guy in blood and flesh would have been definitely more interesting than his DNA in a test tube, you have to admit that.


How so. As I see it they handled the complaints of the public rather well. Users hated Desmond and gave him lots of crap. So they removed him and made a majority of the modern plot in game "optional" for those players that didn't care about the overarching story and just wanted to play around in the past. But for those that enjoyed it....there is still all the conspiracy and mystery and Templar/Assassin shenanigans; there is still the mystery and threat of Juno and what she is plotting. Not to mention that the modern story has migrate from being encapsulated in the games to being a living tale happening across multiple media outlets and sources (i.e. Initiates, Comics, etc.)

I don't understand why the opponents of the modern day aren't HAPPY with how it is now... They can mostly skip it and not have to deal with it and just play stabby stabby assassin.

If anything... my one complaint about the modern day gameplay was that the puzzles were FAR too simple. I wanted the return of the rune type puzzles in AC2.

You can't win everyone. Whatever you do, there will be someone out there who'll whine. Thats the lesson they'd have learned now.

DarktheMagister
12-12-2013, 04:33 AM
Ofcourse. I was merely speculating. However the guy in blood and flesh would have been definitely more interesting than his DNA in a test tube, you have to admit that.



You can't win everyone. Whatever you do, there will be someone out there who'll whine. Thats the lesson they'd have learned now.


True. At least the people here aren't as bad as some communities. Like ME3 for example... after the ending issue, there was a large group of fangirls that refused to acknowledge the extended cut unless Bioware rewrote the story so that Thane Krios could be saved. I wanted to die after reading those threads.

killzab
12-12-2013, 10:23 AM
Now, about this dude Darby...Arrogance. The guy says that story isn't important, that the game play is what is important. And then later goes on to say that the story is what is really important. This guy has no clue what he is talking about. I can understand being proud of your work. But his attitude is suggestive of basically giving the customer a middle finger. He basically says in a lot more words, "I liked the story, so I don't care what you liked. I write what I want to write." In fact, at one point someone mentions that they were disappointed that the story line was flat in the modern day sequences, his words, "Oh well! I liked it." When you are writing material for a game like this, the customer is not someone you should be spitting on. The customers are why there are billions of dollars in profits, so be a little more appreciative of what they have to say. Even if you don't agree with it, you have to acknowledge that their points are valid. That is business 101. I'm not taking what the guy says personally, I'm just speaking from a business owner stand point. Bad move on his part. Though I'm sure he doesn't care because he doesn't have a business to run, he just collects a pay check.

This...SOOOOOO much this !

pirate1802
12-12-2013, 10:39 AM
True. At least the people here aren't as bad as some communities. Like ME3 for example... after the ending issue, there was a large group of fangirls that refused to acknowledge the extended cut unless Bioware rewrote the story so that Thane Krios could be saved. I wanted to die after reading those threads.

That place is indeed a wasteland. If I was a bioware dev I'd not set a foot there for years. I died already.. of laughter seeing them fangirls all teary over virtual character's fates. Almost as funny as Ubisoft's "injustice" to Connor lmao. And the worst thing is I spoiled AC3's ending while laughing over there. :( But yeah.. this community isn't half as bad as some others. Another example is the TR community, everyone there writing long emotional essays on how they were fans of the franchise since they were 7 year old kids in 1996 and they're doddering grandpas now and the series is officially dead to them, that its an abomination, game industry is failing blablabla. Its quite funny to read actually,, even if a bit sadistic I'd admit. Seeing those communities this one seems like heaven. And a lot more accepting to changes. And hey, you even get gems here from time to time like Wondering Testicles and Potato Connor threads lol (I still read them over and over again, they're so funny.)

Btw, @ the above quoted post. Maybe he said it in a rough way, but writing what you want to write is exactly what a writer should do. Sure, take feedback and all and weigh them, but ultimately you should do what you want and not anyone else, not the fans. Once you start doing what your fans want, you stop being yourself and become a servant. I'd go on a long rant on artistic freedom and the importance of staying true to your vision, but tl;dr.. don't make it sound like its a terrible trait that he wants to do what he wants and not what you want him to do. Ignoring someone's demands doesn't equate to spitting on them.

Hans684
12-12-2013, 10:52 AM
How so. As I see it they handled the complaints of the public rather well. Users hated Desmond and gave him lots of crap. So they removed him and made a majority of the modern plot in game "optional" for those players that didn't care about the overarching story and just wanted to play around in the past. But for those that enjoyed it....there is still all the conspiracy and mystery and Templar/Assassin shenanigans; there is still the mystery and threat of Juno and what she is plotting. Not to mention that the modern story has migrate from being encapsulated in the games to being a living tale happening across multiple media outlets and sources (i.e. Initiates, Comics, etc.)

I don't understand why the opponents of the modern day aren't HAPPY with how it is now... They can mostly skip it and not have to deal with it and just play stabby stabby assassin.

If anything... my one complaint about the modern day gameplay was that the puzzles were FAR too simple. I wanted the return of the rune type puzzles in AC2.

Desmond's death was planed since day one, but how he gott there was tweaked. Like the death of Lucy, some idea they gott while making AC2. The modern day is always planed, hell, they even have an ending ready. And making modern day "optinal" is becouse of fans who want it totally away, don't care or think they have no clue. I could find the source of all that if people don't believe it, but what's the point? Believing is blindness anyway.

killzab
12-12-2013, 11:05 AM
That place is indeed a wasteland. If I was a bioware dev I'd not set a foot there for years. I died already.. of laughter seeing them fangirls all teary over virtual character's fates. Almost as funny as Ubisoft's "injustice" to Connor lmao. And the worst thing is I spoiled AC3's ending while laughing over there. :( But yeah.. this community isn't half as bad as some others. Another example is the TR community, everyone there writing long emotional essays on how they were fans of the franchise since they were 7 year old kids in 1996 and they're doddering grandpas now and the series is officially dead to them, that its an abomination, game industry is failing blablabla. Its quite funny to read actually,, even if a bit sadistic I'd admit. Seeing those communities this one seems like heaven. And a lot more accepting to changes. And hey, you even get gems here from time to time like Wondering Testicles and Potato Connor threads lol (I still read them over and over again, they're so funny.)



Btw, @ the above quoted post. Maybe he said it in a rough way, but writing what you want to write is exactly what a writer should do. Sure, take feedback and all and weigh them, but ultimately you should do what you want and not anyone else, not the fans. Once you start doing what your fans want, you stop being yourself and become a servant. I'd go on a long rant on artistic freedom and the importance of staying true to your vision, but tl;dr.. don't make it sound like its a terrible trait that he wants to do what he wants and not what you want him to do. Ignoring someone's demands doesn't equate to spitting on them.

It's not about writing what HE wants, but his attitude in general and not acknowledging the fans' criticism. And you cannot deny they gave long time fans who've been following the series and the modern day plot for 6 years the middle finger.

Oh and I think the backlash Mass Effect received was justified and it led to positive things ( EC + Citadel ) .

Artistic integrity is BS, especially in video games. It's an easy excuse for everything.

In the case of Mass Effect, players grew attached to the characters over 3 long games, and the games were also kind of THEIR games, with the players being able to choose important aspects of the story. Hell, the whole game's choice system depends on people's affection to characters. Characters in Mass Effect and their treatment were a lot more important than in Assassin's Creed. Neglecting them would be the equivalent of neglecting the historical part of AC.

Farlander1991
12-12-2013, 11:18 AM
The guy says that story isn't important, that the game play is what is important. And then later goes on to say that the story is what is really important. This guy has no clue what he is talking about.

No, what he's saying is that story should not be created at the expense of gameplay (since they are making an action/adventure game with stealth elements after all, not a point & click adventure or an interactive movie) and that they should compliment each other.


It's not about writing what HE wants, but his attitude in general and not acknowledging the fans' criticism. And you cannot deny they gave long time fans who've been following the series and the modern day plot for 6 years the middle finger.

What? He explained all the reasons why the modern day plot is as it is now, both from production and feedback standpoints. What else is there to acknowledge?

killzab
12-12-2013, 11:24 AM
No, what he's saying is that story should not be created at the expense of gameplay (since they are making an action/adventure game with stealth elements after all, not a point & click adventure or an interactive movie) and that they should compliment each other.



What? He explained all the reasons why the modern day plot is as it is now, both from production and feedback standpoints. What else is there to acknowledge?

He also said they did it for newcomers of the series, so they ARE giving old fans like me the middle finger.

Farlander1991
12-12-2013, 11:28 AM
He also said they did it for newcomers of the series, so they ARE giving old fans like me the middle finger.

He also said that he wrote Desmond's memos to give him more closure (something AC3 lacked) and other things that expand on info we got in previous games, specifically for the fans, so, no, they AREN'T giving old fans the middle finger, they found a compromise that works for both.

Hans684
12-12-2013, 11:29 AM
He also said they did it for newcomers of the series, so they ARE giving old fans like me the middle finger.

Ubisoft is just a bisness like every other game industry, nothing "special" about how old/new fans are treated either. It happens to every game industry and fans.

pirate1802
12-12-2013, 11:50 AM
It's not about writing what HE wants, but his attitude in general and not acknowledging the fans' criticism. And you cannot deny they gave long time fans who've been following the series and the modern day plot for 6 years the middle finger.

Yes, like I said, maybe he's too brazen in stating his opinion but behind that attitude, I find nothing wrong tbh. Maybe he does listen to those criticisms but finds no merit in them? Could be many reasons. Listening to fans doesn't mean bending over and saying omg you're right I was totally wrong I shall henceforth do as you wish. For example I like to draw in my spare time. Once I drew this beautiful girl pouring many hours into it, and my brother sees it and says it looks like a man. I stare at the pic for hours but still can't fathom how it possibly looks like a man, so I said **** you to my brother and his opinion moved on. The guy makes a big deal about someone telling him that he felt the modern parts were flat and Darby saying he himself liked it. So what? He is just mad that Darby didn't accept his opinion of modern day as sacrosanct and instead told what he thought of it.

As for the long time fan part.. I've been a long time fan as well, but the modern day plot seems all fart in the wind for me. So that supposed middle finger looked like a thumbs up to me though all the wind and fart.


Oh and I think the backlash Mass Effect received was justified and it led to positive things ( EC + Citadel ) .

It did, but surely you'd know that the people behind those ridiculous movements are still by and large unhappy? Anything less that rewriting the whole game is unlikely to satisfy them.


Artistic integrity is BS, especially in video games. It's an easy excuse for everything.

No it just means treating your work as yours (god forbid!) and not of your fans. No matter how much fans get attached to them, ultimately the writers/devs are owners of that. I'm not saying you should accept every **** without saying anything, but you should atleast accept that they have the right to do whatever **** they want because they own the stuff in the first place.

Artistic integrity isn't BS, sorry to say. Its just a hip thing to say after the ME3 debacle. Anyone who've written creatively would know better. Write something, pour your heart into it. And then watch as some "fan" somewhere tells you he didn't like it and wants you to change it because he didn't write it. And you are a crap writer and arrogant if you wont accept it that you work is crap. <--- basically the discussion we'e having here.


In the case of Mass Effect, players grew attached to the characters over 3 long games, and the games were also kind of THEIR games, with the players being able to choose important aspects of the story. Hell, the whole game's choice system depends on people's affection to characters. Characters in Mass Effect and their treatment were a lot more important than in Assassin's Creed. Neglecting them would be the equivalent of neglecting the historical part of AC.

Yes and still, the fans aren't the owner of the stories and characters. Sorry. If AC someday starts ignoring historical parts, I'd sure bawl around over here, but I'd not at as if they have no RIGHT to do that!! How dare they!! etc. Its the thing that most sad ME fans lost sight of.on their pain and agony.



What? He explained all the reasons why the modern day plot is as it is now, both from production and feedback standpoints. What else is there to acknowledge?

Unless he's not bowing over to acknowledge the fans are right and he is wrong its not ENOUGH!

killzab
12-12-2013, 01:06 PM
Yes, like I said, maybe he's too brazen in stating his opinion but behind that attitude, I find nothing wrong tbh. Maybe he does listen to those criticisms but finds no merit in them? Could be many reasons. Listening to fans doesn't mean bending over and saying omg you're right I was totally wrong I shall henceforth do as you wish. For example I like to draw in my spare time. Once I drew this beautiful girl pouring many hours into it, and my brother sees it and says it looks like a man. I stare at the pic for hours but still can't fathom how it possibly looks like a man, so I said **** you to my brother and his opinion moved on. The guy makes a big deal about someone telling him that he felt the modern parts were flat and Darby saying he himself liked it. So what? He is just mad that Darby didn't accept his opinion of modern day as sacrosanct and instead told what he thought of it.

As for the long time fan part.. I've been a long time fan as well, but the modern day plot seems all fart in the wind for me. So that supposed middle finger looked like a thumbs up to me though all the wind and fart.



It did, but surely you'd know that the people behind those ridiculous movements are still by and large unhappy? Anything less that rewriting the whole game is unlikely to satisfy them.



No it just means treating your work as yours (god forbid!) and not of your fans. No matter how much fans get attached to them, ultimately the writers/devs are owners of that. I'm not saying you should accept every **** without saying anything, but you should atleast accept that they have the right to do whatever **** they want because they own the stuff in the first place.

Artistic integrity isn't BS, sorry to say. Its just a hip thing to say after the ME3 debacle. Anyone who've written creatively would know better. Write something, pour your heart into it. And then watch as some "fan" somewhere tells you he didn't like it and wants you to change it because he didn't write it. And you are a crap writer and arrogant if you wont accept it that you work is crap. <--- basically the discussion we'e having here.



Yes and still, the fans aren't the owner of the stories and characters. Sorry. If AC someday starts ignoring historical parts, I'd sure bawl around over here, but I'd not at as if they have no RIGHT to do that!! How dare they!! etc. Its the thing that most sad ME fans lost sight of.on their pain and agony.



Unless he's not bowing over to acknowledge the fans are right and he is wrong its not ENOUGH!


In the case of Mass Effect 3, beyond the actual ending itself, you can't argue that the original ending was just BAD. It's a fact. It was underdeveloped and full of plotholes, with nothing showing the fate of all our characters and the consequence of our choices. What the EC did is basically keep the same ending but iron it out. And even though some hardcore fans still complain, I'd say most of the ranting stopped after the Extended Cut, because it made the ending decent and on the same level of quality as the rest of the game.

About Darby, I don't want him to bow over but be more humble. As in, not contradict a fan's opinion. One of them said " I was disappointed in the ending because I feel we don't have enough information about Edward's future and the very ending was confusing ( with his daughter and the mother of Haytham)

To which Darby responded " I disagree. We made a very robust story about Edward and his life."

Do you think this answer is acceptable ? He's saying the fan's opinion is wrong.

Farlander1991
12-12-2013, 01:14 PM
As in, not contradict a fan's opinion.

Do you think this answer is acceptable ? He's saying the fan's opinion is wrong.

WTF. He's saying he disagrees. If he disagrees he disagrees. We here on the forum disagree all the time. And he doesn't say that the fan is wrong. Not to mention that the fan's quote in question didn't provide any constructive criticism, just a general opinion which... he doesn't agree with. You can say that disagreement implies that the person you disagree with is wrong (which is not exactly true, btw), but, what was he supposed to say? "Yes, we could have shown more of Edward's later life" even if he doesn't feel that way?

killzab
12-12-2013, 01:18 PM
WTF. He's saying he disagrees. If he disagrees he disagrees. We here on the forum disagree all the time. And he doesn't say that the fan is wrong. Not to mention that the fan's quote in question didn't provide any constructive criticism, just a general opinion which... he doesn't agree with. You can say that disagreement implies that the person you disagree with is wrong (which is not exactly true, btw), but, what was he supposed to say? "Yes, we could have shown more of Edward's later life" even if he doesn't feel that way?

He could've EXPLAINED why they didn't show more of his life instead of saying "nah, it was good enough"

Farlander1991
12-12-2013, 01:23 PM
He could've EXPLAINED why they didn't show more of his life instead of saying "nah, it was good enough"

a) He mentioned Forsaken like a bajillion times in that thread saying that it's got all the necessary information about Edward's later years.
b) Why he should explain to that particular answer? The quote in question didn't ask for that, nor did it provide anything to work with beyond "I didn't really like the ending". You may notice that he gives detailed and specific answers for detailed and specific questions.

pirate1802
12-12-2013, 01:27 PM
WTF. He's saying he disagrees. If he disagrees he disagrees. We here on the forum disagree all the time. And he doesn't say that the fan is wrong. Not to mention that the fan's quote in question didn't provide any constructive criticism, just a general opinion which... he doesn't agree with. You can say that disagreement implies that the person you disagree with is wrong (which is not exactly true, btw), but, what was he supposed to say? "Yes, we could have shown more of Edward's later life" even if he doesn't feel that way?

EXACTLY what I was trying to say in my rambling post.

Killzab, opinions can be wrong. If I hold the opinion that Edward is a monkey dressed as a human then clearly my opinion is wrong. I know its out of context, just sayin' that opinions can be wrong. Btw, I'd have said essentially the same thing in different words perhaps. There was nothing confusing about the ending. Edward moved on with his life and his daughter grew up and he now has a son too. Whats confusing? Its obviously geared towards those who have read Forsaken and played AC3, but as it stands there was no confusion, atleast from me towards the ending. I didn't read Forsaken and have just now started reading it.

Btw, you and I agreed that the extended cut rescued Mass Effect 3 but visit BSN, you'd see plenty of people are still disappointed. Point is not whether ME3's ending was bad or not (to which I'd agree it undoubtedly was) but if you start doing as fans say, you start on a dangerous slippery slope. And which fans to listen to anyway, you, me, or those hardcore forumites?

Farlander1991
12-12-2013, 02:39 PM
The last sentence really disappoints me and makes me think that he doesn't know that much about previous AC games...

What you're essentially doing with your posts is just proving Darby's sentence two sentences earlier, i.e. "And part of the way they do this is by controling the media and means of production, etc. "

Essentially, he's not saying that the Templars aren't in control, he's saying they're reasonable and, well, not crazy (and E-EEEEEEEEEVIL).

SixKeys
12-12-2013, 02:42 PM
And here's a glyph puzzle


http://youtu.be/Cy7ACz7iPcU?t=3m41s

"The capitalists will do whatever we tell them to, we print the dollars they worship after all." Confirming that they are in control of the federal reserve and are even above corporate power, and we all know how much power they have.. Not to mention what all the other glyph puzzles have to say.


These videos are highly suggesting that the templars are in control of the monetary system and are on top of the capitalist pyramid, so how is it not possible for them to "actually get away with the crazy stuff they do"?

Al Gore claimed he invented the Internet. Does that mean he actually controls it?

While I get your point, that comment could also be viewed as over-confidence by one high-ranking individual in the Templar Order.

pineal_gland
12-12-2013, 02:43 PM
What you're essentially doing with your posts is just proving Darby's sentence two sentences earlier, i.e. "And part of the way they do this is by controling the media and means of production, etc. "

Essentially, he's not saying that the Templars aren't in control, he's saying they're reasonable and, well, not crazy (and E-EEEEEEEEEVIL).

You're right, my bad. I misread the sentence...

pirate1802
12-12-2013, 02:56 PM
Given that we was the writer of ACR, it was probably him who came up with those lines in those videos in the first place :p

SixKeys
12-12-2013, 03:01 PM
Given that we was the writer of ACR, it was probably him who came up with those lines in those videos in the first place :p

I don't know if Darby had anything to do with writing the multiplayer parts. I'm pretty sure the MP devs have said that starting with ACR, they've been given pretty much free reign for coming up with their own plotline for the MP.

pirate1802
12-12-2013, 03:16 PM
Which is why I added the "probably" part.. :p

MnemonicSyntax
12-12-2013, 04:09 PM
It's not about writing what HE wants, but his attitude in general and not acknowledging the fans' criticism. And you cannot deny they gave long time fans who've been following the series and the modern day plot for 6 years the middle finger.

Why do people keep saying stuff like this "They shafted old fans of the series" "The long-time fans got the middle finger" "The Vets of the series have been screwed" "Old fans are the true fans."

Stop speaking for all of us. I'm a Veteran Fan since day 1. I've played all the games, (except Liberation) don't skip cut scenes, and every summer since Assassin's Creed Brotherhood I replay the series from start to finish. Own all the books, and have loads of memorabilia and I don't think I was "given the middle finger."

Most of the criticism Darby receives is negative anyway. "People don't want a pirate, they want an Assassin from Sequence 1" and most of his responses give a reason why.

I don't think he's arrogant. He had a story set up, and he wrote it. There was some guidelines pitched around the office, and the direction Darby took the story was different and for the most part, something I enjoyed immensely.

There's loads of closure and story in the modern day of 4, to the point I'm more than satisfied with what we received, and new story plots that were left open for future instances.

Hans684
12-12-2013, 04:44 PM
Why do people keep saying stuff like this "They shafted old fans of the series" "The long-time fans got the middle finger" "The Vets of the series have been screwed" "Old fans are the true fans."

Stop speaking for all of us. I'm a Veteran Fan since day 1. I've played all the games, (except Liberation) don't skip cut scenes, and every summer since Assassin's Creed Brotherhood I replay the series from start to finish. Own all the books, and have loads of memorabilia and I don't think I was "given the middle finger."

Most of the criticism Darby receives is negative anyway. "People don't want a pirate, they want an Assassin from Sequence 1" and most of his responses give a reason why.

I don't think he's arrogant. He had a story set up, and he wrote it. There was some guidelines pitched around the office, and the direction Darby took the story was different and for the most part, something I enjoyed immensely.

There's loads of closure and story in the modern day of 4, to the point I'm more than satisfied with what we received, and new story plots that were left open for future instances.

In short, a lot fans complain dayli and is bound by the "old ways"(another world: narrow minded) something that stopes diffrent series from evolving. But if it has evolved to better or wors is a simple opinion, nothing more.

DarktheMagister
12-12-2013, 09:12 PM
It's not about writing what HE wants, but his attitude in general and not acknowledging the fans' criticism. And you cannot deny they gave long time fans who've been following the series and the modern day plot for 6 years the middle finger.

Oh and I think the backlash Mass Effect received was justified and it led to positive things ( EC + Citadel ) .

Artistic integrity is BS, especially in video games. It's an easy excuse for everything.

In the case of Mass Effect, players grew attached to the characters over 3 long games, and the games were also kind of THEIR games, with the players being able to choose important aspects of the story. Hell, the whole game's choice system depends on people's affection to characters. Characters in Mass Effect and their treatment were a lot more important than in Assassin's Creed. Neglecting them would be the equivalent of neglecting the historical part of AC.


Believe me, I'm the first person to agree that the ending Casey Hudson dreamed up for ME3 was a pile of horsecrap (because it left the player feeling totally unfulfilled). But what I don't understand are the people who even AFTER the expanded EC ending and AFTER the heartfelt scenes of Citadel went on to continue arguing that they should be able to save the galaxy with just their own spirit of determination and huge champion balls.

pacmanate
12-12-2013, 10:40 PM
Killzab was called on out twitter by Darby, someone fill me in.

killzab
12-12-2013, 11:47 PM
Killzab was called on out twitter by Darby, someone fill me in.

??? I don't have twitter so I don't know what he said ...

But I didn't insult him, I just said I found his attitude arrogant and a little disrespectful of different opinions as in "we know what AC is about, and you like the series for the wrong reasons"

Hell, I even think Black Flag's story is good, albeit flawed. So I like his work after all ...

And ACR is my favourite story of all AC's probably. So I don't see what there is to call out for.

pacmanate
12-13-2013, 12:00 AM
??? I don't have twitter so I don't know what he said ...

But I didn't insult him, I just said I found his attitude arrogant and a little disrespectful of different opinions as in "we know what AC is about, and you like the series for the wrong reasons"

Hell, I even think Black Flag's story is good, albeit flawed. So I like his work after all ...

And ACR is my favourite story of all AC's probably. So I don't see what there is to call out for.

https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/411119026421911552

I do agree with you, but then again its the internet, you can't know 100% how someone is saying something.

killzab
12-13-2013, 12:06 AM
https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/411119026421911552

I do agree with you, but then again its the internet, you can't know 100% how someone is saying something.

I sent a message on Initiates but apparently I missed him by 2 minutes lol.

DarktheMagister
12-13-2013, 12:37 AM
https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/411119026421911552




Amusing.

Kaschra
12-13-2013, 12:40 AM
https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/411119026421911552


It's time to d-d-d-d-duel! :nonchalance:

killzab
12-13-2013, 12:42 AM
I think his message was a little immature but oh well, I answered him anyway...

Shahkulu101
12-13-2013, 12:43 AM
I think his message was a little immature but oh well, I answered him anyway...

It was a joke mate, don't soil your breeches.

killzab
12-13-2013, 12:52 AM
It was a joke mate, don't soil your breeches.

Could be, I don't know, I answered either way.

DarktheMagister
12-13-2013, 12:53 AM
It's time to d-d-d-d-duel! :nonchalance:

We are amused.

pirate1802
12-13-2013, 04:26 AM
So did the d...d...d...duel occur?

pacmanate
12-13-2013, 06:21 AM
So did the d...d...d...duel occur?

Nope :(

pirate1802
12-13-2013, 06:28 AM
:( Damn

Toa TAK
12-13-2013, 07:05 AM
I don't want to interrupt an epic duel here, but reading through the whole thread on Initiates, WHAT IS THE JOHN FROM IT EASTER EGG?

pacmanate
12-13-2013, 08:01 AM
I don't want to interrupt an epic duel here, but reading through the whole thread on Initiates, WHAT IS THE JOHN FROM IT EASTER EGG?

John is the Sage...

poptartz20
12-13-2013, 08:10 AM
umm... I can't help but get the feeling that Darby isn't really arrogant, just straight forward, but if you don't know him he just has that feeling of "rubbing you the wrong way" + a bit of quirkiness.

Granted I enjoyed the things he said. Glad someone else agrees about the whole Connor thing. And I personally enjoyed several of his answers.

pirate1802
12-13-2013, 08:33 AM
umm... I can't help but get the feeling that Darby isn't really arrogant, just straight forward.

Thats what I'm saying as well. He says whats on his mind without the usual PRTalk sugercoat. Some people don't like it. :/

Farlander1991
12-13-2013, 08:37 AM
Darby answered in the thread, btw.


Hey Killzab. You just reposted your forum post! Tsk tsk.

I don't mind insults at all. You can call me arrogant and I'm okay with that. But I don't want people running around putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my careful explanations about why we have changed the present day, and why we have made the choices we have made. Usually when I explain myself carefully, hardcore fans say "Not good enough. Terrible reason." Unfortunately, most of you don't know the weeks and month and years of very difficult arguments and discussions we have over here. We have to balance realistic budgets and schedules with our ambitions. And we have all had to make some insanely difficult compromises here over the years... in response to media feedback, fan feedback, sales feedbacks, review feedbacks etc... and we do what we can to make the best games possible in the time we have available. Ultimately we want to make an AMAZING game. Why wouldn't we? 2 years is too long to spend on a piece of garbage.

As for me "dismissing" people when they tell me my story is meh... I'm simply disagreeing with them, that's all. I have no wish to change someones mind if it is made up. But I will also point out what I believe are the strengths of my work... especially after two years of dedication. And of course I get five times as many people writing to me here and on twitter and facebook telling me how much they enjoyed my story... so I feel it would be a betrayal to not defend their positions, a position I happen to agree with. IGN and Kotaku were not super excited about my story, but Gamespot and GameTrailers loved it. So who am I supposed to agree with? How about... myself?

Thanks for playing! Bonne Soirée!

poptartz20
12-13-2013, 08:38 AM
Thats what I'm saying as well. He says whats on his mind without the usual PRTalk sugercoat. Some people don't like it. :/

Yeah! Because I've watched videos of him being interviewed and other random things about him being at E3 and whatnot, and it's the same thing. He really doesn't sugarcoat and lays it out there which I can respect that it just rubs people the wrong way, because in today's society we tend to be overly sensitive on just about everything and get our "feelings" hurt.

pirate1802
12-13-2013, 08:40 AM
Yeah! Because I've watched videos of him being interviewed and other random things about him being at E3 and whatnot, and it's the same thing. He really doesn't sugarcoat and lays it out there which I can respect that it just rubs people the wrong way, because in today's society we tend to be overly sensitive on just about everything and get our "feelings" hurt.

That so much.

DarktheMagister
12-13-2013, 08:57 AM
wow... he took the time to answer.

We are really amused.

killzab
12-13-2013, 10:20 AM
wow... he took the time to answer.

We are really amused.

He did call me out though, so it was a given he woud respond.

But there is nothing really amusing in the end, no d-d-d-d-d-duel.

pacmanate
12-13-2013, 12:31 PM
He did call me out though, so it was a given he woud respond.

But there is nothing really amusing in the end, no d-d-d-d-d-duel.

You and Darby suck at fighting.

DarktheMagister
12-13-2013, 12:34 PM
You and Darby suck at fighting.

Not enough fisticuffs.

pirate1802
12-13-2013, 12:44 PM
Came in to witness a glorious duel.

Went back disappointed.

pacmanate
12-13-2013, 12:47 PM
Came in to witness a glorious duel.

Went back disappointed.

This thread might as well get locked

Farlander1991
12-13-2013, 12:49 PM
Guys, you're on a forums of a series known for it's quick-to-end boss fights, what did you expect? :p

pacmanate
12-13-2013, 12:53 PM
Guys, you're on a forums of a series known for it's quick-to-end boss fights, what did you expect? :p

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/busey_clapping.gif

DarktheMagister
12-13-2013, 01:29 PM
Guys, you're on a forums of a series known for it's quick-to-end boss fights, what did you expect? :p

oh my... you're right!

poptartz20
12-13-2013, 03:38 PM
He did call me out though, so it was a given he woud respond.

But there is nothing really amusing in the end, no d-d-d-d-d-duel.

:( Guess I'll put it back up.

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101214020836/yugioh/images/e/e1/DuelDisk2010.jpg


I've been waiting to use this image....the whole time.... Lol.

DarktheMagister
12-13-2013, 09:25 PM
Wow.......too bad it doesn't project giant holograms.

poptartz20
12-14-2013, 11:46 AM
Wow.......too bad it doesn't project giant holograms.

Hahah! I know right! Holograms that when battled with you can actually get hurt or sucked into the shadow realm?

One day technology will get there! It's coming. Haha.

killzab
12-14-2013, 12:07 PM
:( Guess I'll put it back up.

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101214020836/yugioh/images/e/e1/DuelDisk2010.jpg


I've been waiting to use this image....the whole time.... Lol.

Badass !

Toa TAK
12-15-2013, 09:32 PM
I remember having one of those when I was younger.

But no holograms. :(

DarktheMagister
12-15-2013, 09:43 PM
Stupid Shadow Realm.... If only it wasn't so Science Resistant.

Landruner
12-16-2013, 02:37 AM
Darby answered in the thread, btw.

Just saying, Darby apparently got some feedback that he was sounding obviously like an arrogant ***** for a lot of people (Killzab was not the only one who felt his responses were condescending to the posters), which was maybe not intentional from his part, and I don't think he wants to dress up with such label neither... - But it is cool that he followed up Killzab's questions and concerns about it.