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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:06 PM
With the requiremnt for 100% authentic cockpits, Il-2/FB is still saddled with such un-realistic muzzle flash. Why model the flash as seen at night when 99.9% of the 'battles' are in daylight?

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/grinnell-therewent10-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:06 PM
With the requiremnt for 100% authentic cockpits, Il-2/FB is still saddled with such un-realistic muzzle flash. Why model the flash as seen at night when 99.9% of the 'battles' are in daylight?

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/grinnell-therewent10-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:11 PM
I thought you were going to talk about how slow ansd unreliable these forums are.

But, yes, I agree. The muzzle flashes give this sim a cartoon quality.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:37 PM
That stuff was handled so many times - I don't understand why 1C doesn't fix that idiotic looking GF.:........../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:46 PM
Maybe it sells more to FPS type gamers? They like big special effects and stuff.....yee haw!

Anyway, if it was easy to fix, I think Oleg would have reduced the muzzle flash by now.

In another thread I thought I heard the coding work to adjust muzzle flash would be huge.

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:48 PM
I can't say I'm all that convinced.

I recently saw combat footage of real IL-2s on the History (or Wings) channel, and they were shooting at ground targets. The film was shot from another aircraft with them in formation.

Based on what I saw, if anything, the muzzle flashes in IL-2 and FB are too small.

There it was, in broad daylight, plainly visible in black and white. The muzzle flashes were easily several feet long and several inches in diameter. It looked exactly like it does in the sim.

So based on that, and most of the other stuff I've seen around here, I have to say I'm a bit more inclined to believe Oleg's research and results.

Message Edited on 08/31/0303:50PM by BinaryFalcon

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:52 PM
BinaryFalcon wrote:
- I can't say I'm all that convinced.
-
- I recently saw combat footage of real IL-2s on the
- History (or Wings) channel, and they were shooting
- at ground targets. The film was shot from another
- aircraft with them in formation.
-
- Based on what I saw, if anything, the muzzle flashes
- in IL-2 and FB are too small.
-
- There it was, in broad daylight, plainly visible in
- black and white. The muzzle flashes were easily
- several feet long and several inches in diameter.
- It looked exactly like it does in the sim.
-
- So based on that, and most of the other stuff I've
- seen around here, I have to say I'm a bit more
- inclined to believe Oleg's research and results.
-
- Message Edited on 08/31/03 03:50PM by
- BinaryFalcon

I can't say I've ever seen real footage displaying uberhuge muzzle flashes of any kind. I'd have to have a look at that footage to believe it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 04:57 PM
Falcon i saw that too and after seing it i would have to agree with you 100%. the Muzzle flashes are fine in FB.
Oleg is defanatly on the money there.

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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:01 PM
I´m glad someone else reacts on the muzzle flashes... maybe it´s correct, but it has always given me cartoon deja vu´s.

Other than that,the gunnery visuals are just amazing with the smoke contrails and everything. To me these flashes just doesn´t fit in. It´s just WarbirdsIII that have attempted that smoke before I guess... WW2 Fighters was pretty cool by it´s time, but FB is way ahead of that now.

What was it like in EAW?

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:01 PM
SkyChimp wrote:
- I thought you were going to talk about how slow ansd
- unreliable these forums are.
-

Weird, I was thinking the same thing. How come? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

UBI, are you really incapable of running a simple board? I get so many errors so often and are unable to access either the board or a topic that it's just ridiculous. Take a look at all the other boards like simhq to see what ppl in 2003 can expect of online services.


About the muzzle flashes: Yes, they are utterly laughable and show a high value of ignorance in the developing team. The same ignorance like letting the rollrate of a certain plane get through two versions, because of a "translation error" even though this plane is one of the best documented in this game. But obviously no one did bother to think about it twice and was perfectly fine with this obvious error. Or having a plane with bad elevator and mediocore rollrate at high speeds in one version, and the same plane with no stick force issues whatsoever in the next.
What did Leadspitter say he got in a PM from Oleg after sending him data on the rollrates of other planes in question like the P-40 and P-39? He got "Wrong.". All right. Maybe another translation error?
And while FB really offers interesting options for online-play on the one hand, it spoils some of the fun on the other: While the online flightsim Aces High has the feature of disabling the stick for 3-4 seconds for a player who induces heavy warping by yanking the stick around in split-seconds, and Warbirds has inserted a small inertia to avoid sudden induced warps, players in highly responsive planes can get away just fine with that cheat in FB. Though, too be fair, FB is an offline sim in the first place. It's just said because the other aspects of flying it online are just as great as in online sims and you would miss something when you play it offline only.



=38=OIAE

47|FC=-

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:02 PM
Yes FB is very laughable indeed!

Just the other day, I was doing a quick mission; I was in a P40 against a couple of Ace Pe2's.

I made an incorrect approach to the leading Pe2 with a result I clipped my left wing on his elevators.

I found myself spiraling down and getting transformed into a lawndart on it's way to take a dirtnap.

When I crashed at 400kmh at almost 90? I WAS SHOCKED! I WAS STILL ALIVE BEHIND MY COMPUTER! VERY UNREALISTIC INDEED!

Regarding to the muzzle flashes, I would ask Oleg to postpone the correction of nitpicking details in the final patch (aka not the patch we are getting next). He should concentrate on bigger issues than this silly little thing



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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:10 PM
BinaryFalcon wrote:
- I can't say I'm all that convinced.
-
- I recently saw combat footage of real IL-2s on the
- History (or Wings) channel, and they were shooting
- at ground targets. The film was shot from another
- aircraft with them in formation.
-
- Based on what I saw, if anything, the muzzle flashes
- in IL-2 and FB are too small.
-
- There it was, in broad daylight, plainly visible in
- black and white. The muzzle flashes were easily
- several feet long and several inches in diameter.
- It looked exactly like it does in the sim.
-
- So based on that, and most of the other stuff I've
- seen around here, I have to say I'm a bit more
- inclined to believe Oleg's research and results.
-
- Message Edited on 08/31/03 03:50PM by
- BinaryFalcon

Based on what? On high calibre cannons in the IL-2? I wouldn't draw any conclusions on the muzzle flashes from MG-131, 50.cal or even .30. What you see there in the game is just arcade crap. Believe what you want, but it's just a joke. I know a former real life F-84, F-86 and Starfighter pilot who (somewhat ignorantly I must say though) didn't bother to look any further into that game after he saw the ridiculous muzzle flashes and kept flying Warbirds(tm). There is also a picture around showing a *small* flash from the nose armament of the P-38. And I've even seen a colored and good quality video footage of B-25s with a 75mm cannon (or should I say howitzer?) in the nose attacking a Japanese airfield. The muzzle flash was pretty much the one you get in the game, but from 30mm and 37mm weapons!

Regards
heartc




Message Edited on 08/31/0304:13PM by Heart_C

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:14 PM
BinaryFalcon, and I have seen film of a P-51 on a sunny day that had the photo a/c just off the wing and the fuselage was never hiden by flash. Your Il-2 film was taken on an overcast day.

Oleg said he modelled the flashes as they would be seen at NIGHT. How often do you fly at night?

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/grinnell-therewent10-2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:16 PM
Heart_C wrote:
- I know a former real life F-84, F-86 and Starfighter
- pilot who (somewhat ignorantly I must say though) didn't
- bother to look any further into that game after he
- saw the ridiculous muzzle flashes and kept flying
- Warbirds(tm).

ROFLMAO! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:26 PM
hmmmm....lets redirect this post.......lets talk about how unrealistic the throttle is after the patch and landing with no shocks etc.

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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:26 PM
Fresshness wrote:

-ROFLMAO!


You don't believe it? Laugh all you want. Those old guys have principles, take it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I understand why he sees it as a huge drawback from realism when the target basicaly disappears behind a giant firewall.

=38=OIAE

47|FC=-

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:30 PM
BinaryFalcon wrote:
- I can't say I'm all that convinced.
-
- I recently saw combat footage of real IL-2s on the
- History (or Wings) channel, and they were shooting
- at ground targets. The film was shot from another
- aircraft with them in formation.
-
- Based on what I saw, if anything, the muzzle flashes
- in IL-2 and FB are too small.
-
- There it was, in broad daylight, plainly visible in
- black and white. The muzzle flashes were easily
- several feet long and several inches in diameter.
- It looked exactly like it does in the sim.
-
- So based on that, and most of the other stuff I've
- seen around here, I have to say I'm a bit more
- inclined to believe Oleg's research and results.


I`ve seen that footage plenty of times and I agree,IL2 muzzle flash is too small.Regarding other planes I dunno.But those MGs mounted in planes can`t be very different from normal MGs used by infantry.When I see some WWII movies I see muzzle flash quite "big".In "Band of brothers" for example Browning and MG42 had huge muzzle flash.

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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:35 PM
Heart_C wrote:
-
- Fresshness wrote:
-
--ROFLMAO!
-
-
- You don't believe it? Laugh all you want. Those old
- guys have principles, take it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . I understand why
- he sees it as a huge drawback from realism when the
- target basicaly disappears behind a giant firewall.

Errr... I opt for turning firewalls OFF before flying online... oops, wrong forum...



GreyBeast_P39

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:40 PM
Heart_C wrote:
- You don't believe it?

sure I do, there are dumber and stranger things going on in this world you know.


- Laugh all you want.

thank you, I believe I shall /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- Those old guys have principles, take it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .
I'll take a raincheck on that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- I understand why he sees it as a huge drawback
- from realism when the target basicaly disappears behind a
- giant firewall.

Don't you find it the least bit silly to completly write a sim off just because the muzzle flashes are bit 'extreme'? for me, that's a big <h1>ROFLMAO</h1> /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:45 PM
Lol.. remainds me of how someone wrote off FB before it was realeased just because the desktop icon didn´t look "cool" enough... a too grey and boring icon.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 05:48 PM
Fresshness wrote:
- Don't you find it the least bit silly to completly
- write a sim off just because the muzzle flashes are
- bit 'extreme'? for me, that's a big <h1>ROFLMAO</h1>
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-

When you check again, you will note that I already answered that question. Anyway, my point was not talking about whether the guy should have continued or not. I'll trust your comprehension skills to determine what the point was http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

=38=OIAE

47|FC=-

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:52 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
- With the requiremnt for 100% authentic cockpits,
- Il-2/FB is still saddled with such un-realistic
- muzzle flash. Why model the flash as seen at night
- when 99.9% of the 'battles' are in daylight?

I agree completely.
I also posted a new thread regarding this issue and some crap sound issues.

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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 11:19 AM
No.1RAAF_edin wrote:
- Actually whats EVEN WORSE is that the further
- away the aircraft is, the larger the flashes are!

Yes, from long distances the firing ac are mostly a big yellow dot. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Dux Corvan -

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