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View Full Version : I haven't missed notoriety for a second!



Sushiglutton
12-03-2013, 07:08 PM
One improvement in AC4 I haven't seen praised enough is that it removed the notoriety system. Notoriety was basically a punishment on fun. Here's what the system was telling the player:

"We noticed you are having too much fun, so we will punish you by filling up a meter. To decrease the meter you will need to perform a totally mindless task (walking up to something and tap a button). Please consider this the next time you are thinking about having fun! We will punish you by wasting your time!!!"


It was such a dumb system. When you cause mayhem guards will (and should) come after you, but once you have either killed them or escaped, the gameplay loop is closed. When I have succesfully landed unnoticed in a bale of hay and I get the signal noone is looking for me, the sequence is over. It adds nothing whatsoever that I also need to run to the nearest poster and tap a button. It just boggs the game down with unecessary systems and wastes the players time with mundane tasks.

So thank you AC4 for finally correcting this error after four years of notoriety hell :D!

Wolfmeister1010
12-03-2013, 07:09 PM
agreed 100%

poptartz20
12-03-2013, 08:04 PM
Yeah! I noticed that too! I enjoy it A LOT MORE.

Shahkulu101
12-03-2013, 08:13 PM
I believe I just read this in the gameplay feedback section. Nonetheless, totally agreed. I love the pirate-hunter system because it lets you get to do something enjoyable - like destroy a level 60 Man O' War that comes after you incessantly. And to get rid of it, just board any given ship and select the option to lower notoriety. A solid system

A notoriety system is likely returning for ACV so here's hoping they refine it. Unless of course there is another huge focus on naval, which would dissapoint me. I mean I had no problem with ACIV because I expected it to be a one-off, but they absolutely need to focus on the core pillars now. Especially the combat system, yuck.

Bastiaen
12-03-2013, 08:26 PM
When they announced this about AC4, it was probably the thing I was most excited about. I remember the AC2 demo when Patrice talked about the notoriety system always giving you something to do. There is a big difference between having something to do, and and having something meaningful to do. If we want more to do, we'll just massacre guards. Or... GASP replay the game. Problem solved.

ProletariatPleb
12-03-2013, 08:29 PM
Yeah, but I also miss the thrill after performing a high profile assassination. The tension, the chase, the hiding/blending.

shobhit7777777
12-03-2013, 08:29 PM
I liked the notoriety system.

Think of it this way:

For the rampaging player it was a boon - The more you run around dealing carnage...the more attention you get.
For the stealthy player it was a great incentive to keep things on the quiet - Faff around too much and you get unnecessary hassle

And for the most part you had to be REAAAALY destructive to get full notoriety...at least IIRC. And if that did happen, the post AC2 social stealth systems made it a mini-game to try and reach a point completely incognito.

However...I did not miss it either. Particularly because the stealth gameplay is really robust in AC4 and the AI search patterns are fantastic IMO...a great leap forward.

I do feel that Notoriety can be implemented to great effect in the next game and is potentially an extremely engaging system that the devs should reconsider.

I think a distinction needs to be made between being Notorious for assassinating, fighting guards and for just being a *******.
If you take out guards, combat them, assassinate targets - thats "positive" notoriety. You're recognized by guards but the civillian population defends you
If you drop a bomb in the middle of the market before air assassinating a minstrel....then the civillians should back away and snitch on you. Negative notoriety.

Let the positive one be - Notoriety
Let the negative one be - Infamy

Notoriety should be battled through propaganda and information - Bribe heralds, buy out newspapers and printers (AC3)
Infamy should be combatted via things like - renovating the city, investing in shops, not killing civvies or causing distrubances for some time, taking out templars

I guess its a bit hardcore....but in a game like AC...about social stealth and being a blade in the crowd....with a heavy emphasis on the urban landscape...why not have a system which deals with your actions and their effect on the game world in a meaningful way?

To this day I feel that Assassin's Creed Revelations was the BEST Assassin experience as it had all the necessary ingredients. The range of tactical options was fantastic and this was the pinnacle of the AC gameplay for me.

Black Flags is headed the right way

poptartz20
12-03-2013, 08:32 PM
That's true there are pros and cons about the notoriety but if it does come back I hope that it is refined so that it is more fun and add the right amount of challenge without being a task that gets borderline annoying.

Shahkulu101
12-03-2013, 08:35 PM
Yeah, but I also miss the thrill after performing a high profile assassination. The tension, the chase, the hiding/blending.

The tension in AC1 is subjective. The chase is still there and so is hiding/blending - only thing that is missing is the irritating need to get back to the bureau.

Music was awesome though.

EaglePrince25
12-03-2013, 08:40 PM
I'm definitely glad it's gone while i'm on land at least, and I enjoy the way it's been applied for sea travel. When ships come after you, if you choose to fight them and either board or sink them, you gain something from those actions. Crew members and necessary supplies. Before there was nothing you really gained from your notoriety being higher except being chased around. While I certainly understand why they'd chase you and how you'd become infamous, it really was just an unnecessary hassle to me, because it's not like you could avoid people learning about you when you're murdering whoever left and right.

Sushiglutton
12-03-2013, 09:05 PM
For the rampaging player it was a boon - The more you run around dealing carnage...the more attention you get.

This could be handled without notoriety though. For example there could be bells in the city for guards to call for backup. There could also be special locations (like military camps) where you can fight tons and tons of enemies if you feel so inclined. But once you have escaped it should be over.


For the stealthy player it was a great incentive to keep things on the quiet - Faff around too much and you get unnecessary hassle

If I'm not misstaking stealthy actions were also punished. Of course this could be corrected. But as I argued in some other thread I don't really need an extra incentive for stealth of this kind. It's fun in its own right.



And for the most part you had to be REAAAALY destructive to get full notoriety...at least IIRC.

Yes, but this also means that the vast, vast majority of the times I accumulated notoriety it never resulted in anything because I teared down a poster or bribed a herald. Therefor the vast majority of times the system just made me perform a mundane task.



And if that did happen, the post AC2 social stealth systems made it a mini-game to try and reach a point completely incognito.

This is true. I don't think it was worth the cons though.




I think a distinction needs to be made between being Notorious for assassinating, fighting guards and for just being a *******.
If you take out guards, combat them, assassinate targets - thats "positive" notoriety. You're recognized by guards but the civillian population defends you
If you drop a bomb in the middle of the market before air assassinating a minstrel....then the civillians should back away and snitch on you. Negative notoriety.

Let the positive one be - Notoriety
Let the negative one be - Infamy

Notoriety should be battled through propaganda and information - Bribe heralds, buy out newspapers and printers (AC3)
Infamy should be combatted via things like - renovating the city, investing in shops, not killing civvies or causing distrubances for some time, taking out templars

I guess its a bit hardcore....but in a game like AC...about social stealth and being a blade in the crowd....with a heavy emphasis on the urban landscape...why not have a system which deals with your actions and their effect on the game world in a meaningful way?

To this day I feel that Assassin's Creed Revelations was the BEST Assassin experience as it had all the necessary ingredients. The range of tactical options was fantastic and this was the pinnacle of the AC gameplay for me.

Black Flags is headed the right way


Haha this is waaay to hardcore for me. I'm interestsed and fascinated by moment to moment gameplay. The thing you can do the game, how you can physically interact with the world and so on. Systems of the type you describe I think are an obstacle for what I enjoy. This is the main reason I prefer action/adventure over RPGs. They are much more focused on "proper" gameplay instead of "systems" (I don't know the terms, I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say).


There is also this misconception in the gaming communtiy that having consequences is simply better game design. I completely reject this view. To me one of the most enjoyable aspects of gaming is that you can do all kinds of stuff without consequences.

Sushiglutton
12-03-2013, 09:11 PM
I believe I just read this in the gameplay feedback section. Nonetheless, totally agreed. I love the pirate-hunter system because it lets you get to do something enjoyable - like destroy a level 60 Man O' War that comes after you incessantly. And to get rid of it, just board any given ship and select the option to lower notoriety. A solid system

A notoriety system is likely returning for ACV so here's hoping they refine it. Unless of course there is another huge focus on naval, which would dissapoint me. I mean I had no problem with ACIV because I expected it to be a one-off, but they absolutely need to focus on the core pillars now. Especially the combat system, yuck.

Yeah, I post all my feedback in the sticky and when I think it could be fun to discuss I post it on the board as well. Hope the mods don't mind :).

Like you said the notoriety on sea worked much better because the action that increased it (sinking ships) also allowed you to lower it. And going to a harbormaster to get rid of eveything was a very convenient method. Basically it doesn't get in the way at all, but at the same time it's there for when I want a bigger naval challenge.

SixKeys
12-03-2013, 09:43 PM
I actually don't care for the notoriety system at sea. I don't mind that it's in the game for those who like it, but I personally attack ships on a when-I-feel-like-it basis. Sometimes you'll accidentally engage a whole armada when you only meant to go for one ship, and then you have to take down all of them. Finally when you think you're done: "Look, captain! It's a Hunter!". It's more of an annoyance than a challenge.

With that said, I don't miss land-based notoriety in this game either. I still like the idea of encouraging stealthy and socially acceptable actions, but perhaps there are better ways to do it than the old notoriety system. I understand why they did it in the Ezio games. Those games gave you so many tools for being a one-man army that they had to encourage the social stealth core pillar somehow. That's still an area where the devs seem to be struggling. On the one hand they want to stay true to the original concept of social stealth, on the other they're making it less and less important with each game to appeal to the casual crowd.