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AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 06:29 PM
Since ACB, the PoE became a cheap way to fill up blanks in the games. They started as important relics that provides important sources of powers and finished as keys to open doors (yeah, the only point of the PoE in AC3 was to open the Temple, brilliant!).

AC1 > The Apple is presented as an ancient relic that is at some point related to real history (Salomon's treasure, religion relation). It has the power to overtake minds and create illusions.

AC2 > The Apple is presented as an relic that as no relation whatsoever with history. It has the Power to create Illusions too and, combined with the Papal Stick, it was usef to open the Crypt...which is related to the History since it's under the Vatican (Religious relation).

ACB > The Apple is the same as before, only this time it can insta-kill people by using the strenght of the user. Also, it can show you the future, or a future. The Temple is also related to religion since it is under a Church (christian) built over Juno's Temple (greek)

ACR > The keys are used to stock memories. And the Apple became sort-off time phone...it is kept under Masyaf, the Assassins forteress, in a place that everyone knows the location...

AC3 > The Apple is used to open the Temple, control some minds and insta-kill people without taking out the strenght. Also, Juno's can interfer with people trought the Apple. Once again, no one question about the totally random Precursor Temple, I mean, how is it that no historian ever made research on those symbols? Does Abstergo kill everyone that came near? Obviously they don't, since they are many graphs on it. So what, humans in AC Universe really don't care about aliens? ...

Black Flag > The crystal skulls are phones and can see trought the eye of the person which blood is in it. And the Observatory it a totally random Precursor Temple that STAYS OPEN and that no one discovered before (I mean, they could've done some thing more interesting, like I don't know, a link to one of the most famous myth of South American history...Golden City!!!). The Guardians are pointless, they can protect the Temple from ONE man, send a 10 guards are they're all dead (like showed in the end..).Those were interesting before the creation of cameras, but now, the Observatory is useless, if you are close enough to get the blood of the person, than you have the capacities to track him down when you want. Unless they want it to track down Assassins...

Just wanted to point out the whole PoE thing is going absolutely no where but full circles. Is it that hard to implent the PoE in the main game? The only rightful use of them since ACB is in ToKW DLC, where finally they used the PoE to provide a ± challenging boss final. Oh yeah, and great idea from Connor to drop it in the oceant, brilliant + where did Washington got that one?

It just bugs me.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 06:40 PM
Are the games stand alone stories?? aren't the power of apples and POEs carried over through the games?? Someone seems to have forgotten this bit of info...

AC I -----> Apple takes over minds (except those with TWCB genes) and bodies, drain energy and create copies of yourself as illusions

AC II ------> staff can overtake people, control body and drain energy

ACB ------> Apple insta kill, peak into possible future

ACR ------> Seals can store memories (I don't think you realize how USEFUL that is) Apple allows semi-communication with future and opens a nexus.

AC III ------> Crystal ball can make you enter the nexus, Shard of Eden can make you immune to gunfire and Apple of Eden, well...Tyranny of King W and he threw into the ocean so that it does not fall into anyone else's hands...that ALONE shows you how powerful and dangerous it is and GW found it with a British soldier in some battle that I can remember the name of right now.

How useless....this is like the "Assassins are becoming less and less integrated in the story nowz" complaint because "WAAAAA THE CREED IS NOTZ MENTIONED ONCES WAAAAAAA"

RoBg03
11-30-2013, 06:45 PM
i do feel like they got away from the existing pieces of eden story line. a sage? the observatory? meh...they seemed kinda shoehorned in. and did i miss something? the ones who came before needed the observatory to...spy on their worker race? wernt they kinda in charge before the ish went down? maybe i missed something, or maybe things have yet to be explained...but i just don't see how the observatory could play a role in future ac's if they are in a different time/location.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 06:48 PM
someone needs to learn how to use spoiler tags :|

MnemonicSyntax
11-30-2013, 06:50 PM
I don't think you get it though. The PoEs are more than one thing. Yes, they are deus ex machinas in many cases in these games, but most of the items you mentioned did exist through out history, and were said to have "mystical" properties, which is why they are tied to the series as PoEs. In 4, there a computer you hack that tells you about a few PoEs and shows real life images of them with the actual design.

The Crystal Skull thing is also very real and has been around forever. It was brought up in the latest Indiana Jones movie, and was even mentioned in Assassin's Creed 1, they used a different type of Crystal Skull to communicate to each other, while a third Skull was able to leave messages for other people (much like the Masayaf Keys) to see them later on down the line.

In AC1, we learn where the PoEs are from the first one, and then Abstergo (and to a much lesser extent, the Assassins) discovered many different items besides just Apples, which the Templars thought were the only PoEs in existence.

However, other PoEs exist, like the Shroud of Eden, which supposedly brought people back from the dead and had incredible healing properties. These items were created by the Precursor Race with different ideas and uses in mind, to them, regular tools, but to us, incredible power and abilities.

As for the Observatory, it didn't "stay open." If you don't have the blood of the Sage, you can't open the Temple. If you go back to the Observatory between missions, it won't be open. Torres had the blood of Roberts and was able to open the Temple himself.

And yes the Guardians are useless, because it's sticks and stones versus an army of guys with firearms and grenades. You can see that the Guardians did get a few good kills in though.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 06:55 PM
Spoiler tags?? Hello??

Fatal-Feit
11-30-2013, 06:55 PM
\
How useless....this is like the "Assassins are becoming less and less integrated in the story nowz" complaint because "WAAAAA THE CREED IS NOTZ MENTIONED ONCES WAAAAAAA"

This ^

MnemonicSyntax
11-30-2013, 07:04 PM
Spoiler tags?? Hello??

With a thread title like this, they aren't really necessary. It's evident that the discussion is about AC4 and the stance on PoEs.

silvermercy
11-30-2013, 07:09 PM
How useless....this is like the "Assassins are becoming less and less integrated in the story nowz" complaint because "WAAAAA THE CREED IS NOTZ MENTIONED ONCES WAAAAAAA"
THIS x 100.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 07:10 PM
With a thread title like this, they aren't really necessary. It's evident that the discussion is about AC4 and the stance on PoEs.
Well, isn't the rule for spoilers in thread title still standing?? I'm sorry, I have been away for quite some time :|

MnemonicSyntax
11-30-2013, 07:12 PM
Well, isn't the rule for spoilers in thread title still standing?? I'm sorry, I have been away for quite some time :|

I have nothing to do with the thread title. Sorry.

ze_topazio
11-30-2013, 07:16 PM
Useless? if anything they are becoming more and more useful.

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 07:17 PM
Are the games stand alone stories?? aren't the power of apples and POEs carried over through the games?? Someone seems to have forgotten this bit of info...

AC I -----> Apple takes over minds (except those with TWCB genes) and bodies, drain energy and create copies of yourself as illusions

AC II ------> staff can overtake people, control body and drain energy

ACB ------> Apple insta kill, peak into possible future

ACR ------> Seals can store memories (I don't think you realize how USEFUL that is) Apple allows semi-communication with future and opens a nexus.

AC III ------> Crystal ball can make you enter the nexus, Shard of Eden can make you immune to gunfire and Apple of Eden, well...Tyranny of King W and he threw into the ocean so that it does not fall into anyone else's hands...that ALONE shows you how powerful and dangerous it is and GW found it with a British soldier in some battle that I can remember the name of right now.

How useless....this is like the "Assassins are becoming less and less integrated in the story nowz" complaint because "WAAAAA THE CREED IS NOTZ MENTIONED ONCES WAAAAAAA"

I said that the Apple in ToKW was well-used. Seal memory is as usefull as a book, the only difference is that you can't change the events. But otherwise, it's a TWCB's books.

Crystall ball? Shard of Eden? What's next? Shoes of Eden? It's simply that they look so simple, I mean, the Amulet thing was cheap. IMO PoE should ALWAYS be extremely dangerous weapons, which they are not in previous games. The Shard protect some bullets, but you ain't invincible, the Amulet opens a door, when an Apple has the power to generate nuclear explosions.

During the whole story I didn't care about the Observatory. Why? Because it doesn't represent a danger to no one. It jus gives a little advantage, nothing more. If the Observatory would've been TWCB Library, then yes I would have care, but with that it does and what it represent, it's poor.

MnemonicSyntax
11-30-2013, 07:22 PM
I
Crystall ball? Shard of Eden? What's next? Shoes of Eden? It's simply that they look so simple, I mean, the Amulet thing was cheap. IMO PoE should ALWAYS be extremely dangerous weapons, which they are not in previous games. The Shard protect some bullets, but you ain't invincible, the Amulet opens a door, when an Apple has the power to generate nuclear explosions.

Uhm, no. The PoEs are used as tools. The first PoE, the Apples used to manipulate minds, were created to have the minds of humans sit in thrall and "imagine" that their world was covered in a forcefield of sorts to stop the solar flare.

They're used as tools, nothing more.

And that amulet is real. It doesn't unlock any doors, but the serpent chasing it's tail is used throughout many cultures as a sign of "being a bad idea."


During the whole story I didn't care about the Observatory. Why? Because it doesn't represent a danger to no one. It jus gives a little advantage, nothing more. If the Observatory would've been TWCB Library, then yes I would have care, but with that it does and what it represent, it's poor.

That's because like Anne said "Everyone is parched but one man has all the water, yet offers them none." It's power, but in a subtle way.

I love it. I don't think it needs to be the atom bomb you're looking for. Power comes in many forms, not just raw strength.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 07:23 PM
I have nothing to do with the thread title. Sorry.
oh I know, I meant that since the OP has no specification in the title about spoilers, then everyone should just use spoiler tags..

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 07:30 PM
I said that the Apple in ToKW was well-used. Seal memory is as usefull as a book, the only difference is that you can't change the events. But otherwise, it's a TWCB's books.
that's right, a TOOL...and no, it's not a book...it's ACCURATE. books are mostly accurate.


Crystall ball? Shard of Eden? What's next? Shoes of Eden? It's simply that they look so simple
Yes, they are TOOLS..so many tools used by the first civ. if there was just apples, it'd be A LOT more boring and mundane. the first civ made a lot of tools.


I mean, the Amulet thing was cheap. IMO PoE should ALWAYS be extremely dangerous weapons, which they are not in previous games. The Shard protect some bullets, but you ain't invincible, the Amulet opens a door, when an Apple has the power to generate nuclear explosions.
but that's mundane and just shows that TWCB were capable of nothing but destruction and war. the variety in shapes and powers of every piece is what gives TWCB their mystique and shows how incredibly powerful and smart they were.


During the whole story I didn't care about the Observatory. Why? Because it doesn't represent a danger to no one. It jus gives a little advantage, nothing more. If the Observatory would've been TWCB Library, then yes I would have care, but with that it does and what it represent, it's poor.
no danger?? Spying on everyone doesn't mean anything?? this surveillance technology poses no danger?? Jeez, man...I don't even know what to say...and heck, lots and lots of precursor blood vials and you still don't think it's interesting?? wow

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 07:33 PM
Uhm, no. The PoEs are used as tools. The first PoE, the Apples used to manipulate minds, were created to have the minds of humans sit in thrall and "imagine" that their world was covered in a forcefield of sorts to stop the solar flare.

They're used as tools, nothing more.

What the Papal Stick and the Sword of Eden for then? I know the Apples were used to control minds, but their powers wasn't limited to that, that's why they are so usefull, and extremely dangerous.



That's because like Anne said "Everyone is parched but one man has all the water, yet offers them none." It's power, but in a subtle way.

I love it. I don't think it needs to be the atom bomb you're looking for. Power comes in many forms, not just raw strength.

Agreed, but then again, it's nothing to worry about. Sure they could spy on important people, but then they would only have a little advantage on the situation. I mean, if the Crystal Skulls, could take direct control of the person or access all their knowledges, that would be usefull, but for now, meeh.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 07:38 PM
Agreed, but then again, it's nothing to worry about. Sure they could spy on important people, but then they would only have a little advantage on the situation. I mean, if the Crystal Skulls, could take direct control of the person or access all their knowledges, that would be usefull, but for now, meeh.
Yeah, because blackmail through surveillance and watching someone 24/7 is not taking direct control over a person and accessing their knowledge....right...

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 07:40 PM
that's right, a TOOL...and no, it's not a book...it's ACCURATE. books are mostly accurate.


Yes, they are TOOLS..so many tools used by the first civ. if there was just apples, it'd be A LOT more boring and mundane. the first civ made a lot of tools.

Get it, tools, but the Tools of GODS!!!


but that's mundane and just shows that TWCB were capable of nothing but destruction and war. the variety in shapes and powers of every piece is what gives TWCB their mystique and shows how incredibly powerful and smart they were.

Humans makes them object of war and killing, that's the twist. What was used to build is now used to destroy. It also shows how animal humans are and why some of TWCB hated them.


no danger?? Spying on everyone doesn't mean anything?? this surveillance technology poses no danger?? Jeez, man...I don't even know what to say...and heck, lots and lots of precursor blood vials and you still don't think it's interesting?? wow

Blood vials for death people is useless + it's been said that they couldn't use them in the Animus...so, they're you go. And no just like I said before, surveillance is not that usefull. Alright it saves time, but the essentials is still to made. And again, if you are close enough to get the blood of the individual, then you clearly don't need that kind of surveillance!

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 07:42 PM
Yeah, because blackmail through surveillance and watching someone 24/7 is not taking direct control over a person and accessing their knowledge....right...

If you take control of somebody's computer, you won't be able to control them directly nor reading minds. Sorry to disapoint you.
+ I don't think using a Crystal Skull for 24/7 is a good idea, this said, ou would loss A LOT of content.

MnemonicSyntax
11-30-2013, 07:50 PM
If you take control of somebody's computer, you won't be able to control them directly nor reading minds. Sorry to disapoint you.
+ I don't think using a Crystal Skull for 24/7 is a good idea, this said, ou would loss A LOT of content.

That's incorrect. As much as it doesn't belong on this forum as a discussion topic, Hunter Moore would disagree with you.

As discussing it here would be a very bad idea, if you aren't familiar with Mr. Moore, do a Google Search on him.

Assassin_M
11-30-2013, 07:55 PM
That's incorrect. As much as it doesn't belong on this forum as a discussion topic, Hunter Moore would disagree with you.

As discussing it here would be a very bad idea, if you aren't familiar with Mr. Moore, do a Google Search on him.
This...thank you for saving me time..

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 07:56 PM
That's incorrect. As much as it doesn't belong on this forum as a discussion topic, Hunter Moore would disagree with you.

As discussing it here would be a very bad idea, if you aren't familiar with Mr. Moore, do a Google Search on him.

This can't apply to the situation since here we are talking Templars wanting to Spy on Kings/ Presidents/ Assassins, I don't think they are interested in abusing random people.

Well actualy they are, but not in that way..:/

MnemonicSyntax
11-30-2013, 08:11 PM
This can't apply to the situation since here we are talking Templars wanting to Spy on Kings/ Presidents/ Assassins, I don't think they are interested in abusing random people.

Well actualy they are, but not in that way..:/

Well, true. But Blackmail can have many forms.

Either way, I get what you're saying, but... but... the Observatory was a good idea, just poorly executed. However, it seems to be a real interest in the modern period, so perhaps something will come of it.

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 08:16 PM
Either way, I get what you're saying, but... but... the Observatory was a good idea, just poorly executed. However, it seems to be a real interest in the modern period, so perhaps something will come of it.

Exactly!

Hans684
11-30-2013, 08:23 PM
Exactly!

It is usefull, it allows for more sensitive information, blackmail, taking over the world without controlling everyones minds. And it's untrayseble way of communication, far more usefull than ordinary cameras, there is no way the assasins can hack the Observatory while a templar uses it to gett the same information as them, something that makes cameras to risky.

AdamPearce
11-30-2013, 08:37 PM
It is usefull, it allows for more sensitive information, blackmail, taking over the world without controlling everyones minds. And it's untrayseble way of communication, far more usefull than ordinary cameras, there is no way the assasins can hack the Observatory while a templar uses it to gett the same information as them, something that makes cameras to risky.

yeah but you have to ge the blood of anyone you want to see, what a pain in the ***. And if they get to have all the blood vials, they would've been sooooo much that they'll the size of a state to contain them all, it's just a really bad way to get information. Sure if they only want to track down ONE man, then no problem. But like I said before, if you are close enough to the King of the President to get his blood, you don't really need to spy on him trought a crystall skull.

+ The Observatory itself is useless since you only need the crystal skull to spy on people. The Observatory simply upscale the image.

Lonnie_Jackson
11-30-2013, 09:08 PM
It also stores all the information to whoever they need. So in a sense it would have been important to the first civ since they probably used it on all sorts. Slave, civilians important figures and such.

DarktheMagister
12-01-2013, 01:22 AM
Besides the Apples of Eden, the First Civilization created many more Pieces of Eden. Some of these affected humanity in similar ways, whilst others affected nature and even time itself. The Apples were all capable of controlling the minds of men, creating illusions and, to a degree, permitted physical control over said minds; the Apples could all be used in conjunction with a Staff, which increased the abilities of both Pieces.

Other Pieces included the Shroud, whose properties included the ability to heal the wounds of those it touched.
The Ankh, capable of resurrecting the dead.
The Sword, a Piece that would pass through the hands of many great rulers through the centuries, including King Arthur and Attila the Hun.

The Crystal Skulls were Pieces that were scattered throughout Central and Southern America, allowed for truly wireless, unassisted telepathic communication between the holders of each Skull. At one point, a Crystal Skull came into the possession of Giovanni Borgia, who made use of its power in 1542. Similar artifacts, the Crystal Balls existed, which allowed the user to access the Nexus and communicate with members of the First Civilization. One of the Crystal Balls was notably used by the Assassin Ratonhnhaké:ton to communicate with Juno.

There was also the Grand Temple Key which, when combined with three ancient power sources, allowed the holder to open the gate to the inner chambers of the Grand Temple. The Shard of Eden was also discovered by Captain Kidd, which was a ring that worked as a personal magnetic shield, repelling all metallic objects from its wearer.

In addition to these artifacts found in America, the Assassin Aveline de Grandpré discovered a holographic device in the First Civilization Temple of Chichen Itza, the Prophecy Disk, that showed her the election of Eve as the leader of humanity's rebellion against the First Civilization.

According to emails read by Desmond Miles in 2012, at least one Piece of Eden existed that granted the ability to manipulate time. Concerns over possible paradoxes, however, led to Abstergo Industries locking it away.


Also the staff was destroyed in the Tunguska Event....and one or more Apples have been destroyed so far as well.

DarktheMagister
12-01-2013, 01:30 AM
In review I also found mention of a scepter that once belonged to the Ancient "Isis" which apparently imbues it's wielder with extreme charisma.

AdamPearce
12-01-2013, 02:45 AM
Besides the Apples of Eden, the First Civilization created many more Pieces of Eden. Some of these affected humanity in similar ways, whilst others affected nature and even time itself. The Apples were all capable of controlling the minds of men, creating illusions and, to a degree, permitted physical control over said minds; the Apples could all be used in conjunction with a Staff, which increased the abilities of both Pieces.

Other Pieces included the Shroud, whose properties included the ability to heal the wounds of those it touched.
The Ankh, capable of resurrecting the dead.
The Sword, a Piece that would pass through the hands of many great rulers through the centuries, including King Arthur and Attila the Hun.

The Crystal Skulls were Pieces that were scattered throughout Central and Southern America, allowed for truly wireless, unassisted telepathic communication between the holders of each Skull. At one point, a Crystal Skull came into the possession of Giovanni Borgia, who made use of its power in 1542. Similar artifacts, the Crystal Balls existed, which allowed the user to access the Nexus and communicate with members of the First Civilization. One of the Crystal Balls was notably used by the Assassin Ratonhnhaké:ton to communicate with Juno.

There was also the Grand Temple Key which, when combined with three ancient power sources, allowed the holder to open the gate to the inner chambers of the Grand Temple. The Shard of Eden was also discovered by Captain Kidd, which was a ring that worked as a personal magnetic shield, repelling all metallic objects from its wearer.

In addition to these artifacts found in America, the Assassin Aveline de Grandpré discovered a holographic device in the First Civilization Temple of Chichen Itza, the Prophecy Disk, that showed her the election of Eve as the leader of humanity's rebellion against the First Civilization.

According to emails read by Desmond Miles in 2012, at least one Piece of Eden existed that granted the ability to manipulate time. Concerns over possible paradoxes, however, led to Abstergo Industries locking it away.


Also the staff was destroyed in the Tunguska Event....and one or more Apples have been destroyed so far as well.

Alrigth but...why?

D.I.D.
12-01-2013, 03:23 AM
I'm surprised I'm having to point this out on page 4, but did nobody realise that the crystal skull is...

... an analogue for the post-9/11 Homeland Security expansion and the NSA scandal today - "If you've got nothing to hide, then you should have no problem if the government reads your emails/tracks your web traffic/films you everywhere you go"?

That seemed pretty obvious to me, and I thought that was a really nice, fresh idea for the series to tie it in with the big issues of our real news.

MnemonicSyntax
12-01-2013, 03:26 AM
They've been discussing the Crystal Skulls since Assassin's Creed 1. I don't think has anything to do with what you suggested.

D.I.D.
12-01-2013, 03:30 AM
And we've been living under a surveillance state "for our own good" for more years than that. I think it would be pretty incredible if there was no intention to echo the anti-terror paranoia of the Western world in that plot device, especially when paired with all the Abstergo stuff on those themes.

(The need to post spoiler tags is making me look like a conspiracy nut whispering behind my hand. Argh.)

BATISTABUS
12-01-2013, 08:23 AM
I think you're confusing Pieces of Eden (apple) with precursor (TWCB) technology.

MnemonicSyntax
12-01-2013, 08:39 AM
No, PoEs are precursor technology. Every Apple is a POE, but every POE is not an Apple.

DarktheMagister
12-01-2013, 08:43 AM
Alrigth but...why?

What do you mean "but why?" But why what?

lothario-da-be
12-01-2013, 11:20 AM
Yeah, because blackmail through surveillance and watching someone 24/7 is not taking direct control over a person and accessing their knowledge....right...
The observatory is actualy some kind of upgraded xbox one then?

BATISTABUS
12-02-2013, 01:59 AM
No, PoEs are precursor technology. Every Apple is a POE, but every POE is not an Apple.
Either way the point still stands. What was introduced in AC1 was the apple (for like 2 seconds). What we see in other games are just pieces of technology from that civilization, so the rules for those artifacts are not limited to what the apple can do.

MnemonicSyntax
12-02-2013, 02:28 AM
Either way the point still stands. What was introduced in AC1 was the apple (for like 2 seconds). What we see in other games are just pieces of technology from that civilization, so the rules for those artifacts are not limited to what the apple can do.

Yes, agreed. Absolutely true.

Hans684
12-02-2013, 06:11 AM
Alrigth but...why?

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Koh-i-Noor

Read it.

Farlander1991
12-02-2013, 08:36 AM
Regarding the crystal skull requiring blood - it's actually easier to get it in modern times than it is during Edward's time, so it's not as big a pain of the *** as you think. After all, chances are that for the most part everybody (well, everybody Abstergo would consider worth spying on) has given at least one drop of blood during a certain period of time. Medical examinations, all that kind of stuff. If Abstergo would control the hospital I gave the first drop of blood I remember, they'd have it since I was like 5 or 6 (maybe even earlier).

Legendz54
12-02-2013, 08:44 AM
I hope AC5 progresses the modern day story and the artefacts/TWCB... AC4 modern day felt like a (filler) with no progression to any of the characters.. take out the first person and get back on track with what the series is about, stop catering for newcomers and start catering for the hardcore fans.

DarktheMagister
12-02-2013, 09:21 AM
I hope AC5 progresses the modern day story and the artefacts/TWCB... AC4 modern day felt like a (filler) with no progression to any of the characters.. take out the first person and get back on track with what the series is about, stop catering for newcomers and start catering for the hardcore fans.

Except a large portion of the "hard core" fanbase has decided that they want the entire modern day story removed....

Heck... I think even this 1st person approach they went with might be affected by past complaints about Desmond and how too many people hated modern day.

Personally.... I can work with either.... but I think they're gonna keep this 1st person version and make modern day more of a clue hunt.

Legendz54
12-02-2013, 09:31 AM
Except a large portion of the "hard core" fanbase has decided that they want the entire modern day story removed....

Heck... I think even this 1st person approach they went with might be affected by past complaints about Desmond and how too many people hated modern day.

Personally.... I can work with either.... but I think they're gonna keep this 1st person version and make modern day more of a clue hunt.


They didn't want the whole modern day story removed.. they wanted Desmond removed.. I can cope with him being gone and the boring 1st person for 1 game.. but they better give us a new modern day character to keep things interesting.

If modern day turns from a plot that is part of the story to a 10 min clue hunt like in AC4BF i will spew..

xx-pyro
12-02-2013, 01:47 PM
They didn't want the whole modern day story removed.. they wanted Desmond removed.. I can cope with him being gone and the boring 1st person for 1 game.. but they better give us a new modern day character to keep things interesting.

If modern day turns from a plot that is part of the story to a 10 min clue hunt like in AC4BF i will spew..

Speak for yourself, I think AC4 has had the best modern day yet, and I've been playing since 2007 (am I hardcore yet?) Fact of it is these are casual games and having people be able to pick up a new one and play it is key for series to succeed- people don't want to be bogged down having to play every single game to enjoy the newest one.

Legendz54
12-02-2013, 11:33 PM
Speak for yourself, I think AC4 has had the best modern day yet, and I've been playing since 2007 (am I hardcore yet?) Fact of it is these are casual games and having people be able to pick up a new one and play it is key for series to succeed- people don't want to be bogged down having to play every single game to enjoy the newest one.

I have also been playing since 2007, looks like we have different views because i thought the modern day in AC4 was the worst one yet. I can tell you that if they keep bogging the story down so any average guy can just pick it up.. How are people going to enjoy it if the vast and mysterious modern day is turned into some 10 min clue hunt for noobs?

SixKeys
12-02-2013, 11:49 PM
I have also been playing since 2007, looks like we have different views because i thought the modern day in AC4 was the worst one yet. I can tell you that if they keep bogging the story down so any average guy can just pick it up.. How are people going to enjoy it if the vast and mysterious modern day is turned into some 10 min clue hunt for noobs?

I'm really enjoying the modern day in AC4 myself. While I liked Desmond and co., his story was obviously weighing the devs down because they kept having to come up with more and more convoluted plot points. There's still an element of mystery in AC and I'd say it's stronger in AC4 than in the last two games. We're back to hacking computers and reading mysterious e-mails just like in AC1. Ironically, Desmond has never had as much character development as he gets in AC4. Some of his recordings are really touching, something that was always lacking in the games where he was the protagonist.

Landruner
12-02-2013, 11:49 PM
Speak for yourself, I think AC4 has had the best modern day yet, and I've been playing since 2007 (am I hardcore yet?) Fact of it is these are casual games and having people be able to pick up a new one and play it is key for series to succeed- people don't want to be bogged down having to play every single game to enjoy the newest one.

Well in the old & original AC1's concept - Desmond was supposed to represent the player and standing as an appearance for the player, so I would say that the modern day new version stands in the AC lore since they came back to the original concept.

Legendz54
12-02-2013, 11:58 PM
I'm really enjoying the modern day in AC4 myself. While I liked Desmond and co., his story was obviously weighing the devs down because they kept having to come up with more and more convoluted plot points. There's still an element of mystery in AC and I'd say it's stronger in AC4 than in the last two games. We're back to hacking computers and reading mysterious e-mails just like in AC1. Ironically, Desmond has never had as much character development as he gets in AC4. Some of his recordings are really touching, something that was always lacking in the games where he was the protagonist.

That is true some of the hidden stuff was great, but i still thought the amount of modern day story that wasn't in the main story was disappointing, I always looked forward to the modern day every game because it had an interesting plot and mystery to it, TWCB and such... finding out new characters. Modern day serves a purpose, the only reason we go back and live the lives of these ancestors is to serve an ultimate purpose in the modern day so it is a vital part of the story and i dont like it when they bog it down and make it 15 mins each game with little story progression.

SixKeys
12-03-2013, 12:32 AM
Well in the old & original AC1's concept - Desmond was supposed to represent the player and standing as an appearance for the player, so I would say that the modern day new version stands in the AC lore since they came back to the original concept.

Exactly. The devs even said at one point that when AC1 came out, Half-Life 2 and other games with faceless protagonists were all the rage. It was the dominant game development philosophy at the time that players didn't like complex characters and preferred these empty vessels. Desmond was developed with that philosophy in mind. Of course, right around the time AC1 came out, so did Uncharted with its loveable rogue Nathan Drake, and suddenly everyone wanted fully developed characters again.


That is true some of the hidden stuff was great, but i still thought the amount of modern day story that wasn't in the main story was disappointing, I always looked forward to the modern day every game because it had an interesting plot and mystery to it, TWCB and such... finding out new characters. Modern day serves a purpose, the only reason we go back and live the lives of these ancestors is to serve an ultimate purpose in the modern day so it is a vital part of the story and i dont like it when they bog it down and make it 15 mins each game with little story progression.

I enjoyed the Desmond story up until ACR. Then it started to feel like they were stretching the story and dismissing earlier plotpoints either because they could no longer keep track of them or because they simply didn't care. AC3's modern day was a big disappointment to me after so many years of emotional investment in Desmond's story, and I don't want that to happen again. I don't want them to create a new modern protagonist, dangle all these interesting carrots in front of our noses, making us speculate "what does it all mean?", only to drop those unsolved mysteries like they didn't matter. Having us be the modern day protagonist may be less emotionally rewarding, but it allows the devs more creative freedom. I'm certain that we wouldn't have ever gotten even the puzzles and mysteries we got in AC4 if they hadn't gone down this more simplistic route, because devs have admitted that not enough players bothered with stuff like the glyphs in previous games to justify putting effort into them. Having the mysteries just be e-mails, classified Abstergo documents and whatnot requires less programming. Darby McDevitt said he wrote a lot of the modern day side content basically in his spare time way after finishing the main story. Written content allows for that kind of flexibility, whereas a third-person playable character walking around discovering things requires extra money put into animation, voice acting, programming, debugging etc.

Legendz54
12-03-2013, 01:17 AM
I enjoyed the Desmond story up until ACR. Then it started to feel like they were stretching the story and dismissing earlier plotpoints either because they could no longer keep track of them or because they simply didn't care. AC3's modern day was a big disappointment to me after so many years of emotional investment in Desmond's story, and I don't want that to happen again. I don't want them to create a new modern protagonist, dangle all these interesting carrots in front of our noses, making us speculate "what does it all mean?", only to drop those unsolved mysteries like they didn't matter. Having us be the modern day protagonist may be less emotionally rewarding, but it allows the devs more creative freedom. I'm certain that we wouldn't have ever gotten even the puzzles and mysteries we got in AC4 if they hadn't gone down this more simplistic route, because devs have admitted that not enough players bothered with stuff like the glyphs in previous games to justify putting effort into them. Having the mysteries just be e-mails, classified Abstergo documents and whatnot requires less programming. Darby McDevitt said he wrote a lot of the modern day side content basically in his spare time way after finishing the main story. Written content allows for that kind of flexibility, whereas a third-person playable character walking around discovering things requires extra money put into animation, voice acting, programming, debugging etc.


It counts on how much effort the developers are willing to put into the modern day, which is shown in AC4 as minimal effort. However i dont think they can keep this 1st person thing going as i believe it will start to get even dryer than Desmond with audiences after a game or two..

The next game can make or break the modern day.. as Desmond implied the Assassins have to find a way to stop Juno.. They cant do that with crappy first person 15 minute segments..
The next game can be their opportunity to redeem the modern day story and make it even better than it was in AC1 or AC2 as i havent given up on it yet.. we will see what happens.