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Lochshot
11-28-2013, 09:25 PM
Was just playing through the ACIV story and it occured to me that although very charismatic Edward actually seems a bit stupid, albeit more wise towards the end he just strikes me as the 18th century version of the bro-dude's of today, quick to anger and unreasonable. Connor also seems pretty dumb, while Haytham just comes across as more intelligent than both(I know he's not an Assassin, just an example). So it got me thinking, who's the most intelligent Assassin? I'm not talking about wisdom (that'd be a close one between Altair and Ezio) but just general intelligence, i.e. ability to learn and reason and actually think for themselves without the teaching of the Assassins backing up just about everything they say. Worded differently, which one do you think would be most likely to be an academic if they didn't go down the whole Assassin route? Thought it'd be a good topic to discuss, also I'm new here so just tell me if this kinda question/thread's out of place in these forums.

Yoshack Fyre84
11-28-2013, 09:54 PM
Altair obvious choice. Ezio not even close. For the sheer fact that there was less to do in 1192. (Hey that rhymes!!!) Ezio came from a wealthy family, Had they not been killed he would have been a nobleish person. Taken up a lame profession and gone on with his life. Conner was half Native American, he would never be allowed to learn with the white boys. Edward obviously would NEVER have been an academic for many reasons. We don't really know much about Altair BEFORE he became an Assassin, as we start the game with him being an Assassin already and disgraced. He always seemed more calm and reasonable in situations. And we know from Assassin's Creed Revelations that he sort of did become a scholar in later life. He had that crazy secret library and he made the memory discs for a future Assassin to find. I kind of wish they would make a new game that goes back and covers Altair after the end of the original Assassin's Creed and before the events we see him in during Revelations. Unfortunately that would be impossible, because we saw his DNA get passed on in Assassin's Creed II when he made love to that chick in the hay on top of the tower. I know she has a name but I can't remember it and I don't want to look it up. She was the Templar Knight he nearly killed in the first game. Sorry to say your question is ridiculous and warrants no discussion, the answer is plainly clear. Lol. EDIT to my OP, Posted Below: I guess I misread a little. I read his post and forgot the title, MOST INTELLIGENT Assassin. I thought he was asking who was most likely to be a scholar if they didn't pursue the life of an Assassin. The most intelligent in general is much harder to discern, sorry OP for calling for question ridiculous. I couldn't venture a guess as to who had the highest IQ. They all have exceptional skills and the ability to pick things up quickly, granted though a lot of that comes from them being controlled by you and I the player, who have had 6 years experience controlling Assassin's. Ezio may not have been the smartest early on, but in the end he grew very wise. I would want to say Ezio, but that might also be because he is my favorite. The cop out is to say they were all equally smart. Actually, the cop out is this.............The most intelligent Assassin........DESMOND MILES!!!!!!!

Shahkulu101
11-28-2013, 09:55 PM
I certainly don't think Connor and Edward were dumb. Sure, Connor was headstrong and impulsive - but I liked that, he felt strongly about the assassins ideas of freedom. He builds up the homestead and creates a fair, free community that is centuries in front of what the patriots and that **** Washington accomplished. Edward was very smart, took on skills exceptionally well and, with almost no training was able to become an effective assassin, even though he wasn't part of the actual order - he's a pirate, so I'll let his occasional brashness slide. He was actually more level-headed and rational than I suspected, which was a nice surprise. Edwards is a fantastic character.

Like you said, Altair and Ezio were both very wise, but let us not forget their early years. Eventually, they learn to understand the creed and the world with knowledge only they could acquire, and yet they conceal it - wise enough to know the disruption it would cause.

I don't really think there is an answere to your question - but I would say all of them are intelligent.

ze_topazio
11-28-2013, 09:58 PM
Edward was able to fool a bunch of Templars in to believing he was a very knowledgeable and experienced Assassin just by using the small hints in the things they were saying and by driving the conversation in the right direction, in a time when he knew nothing about Assassins and Templars, he was definitely not stupid.

Shahkulu101
11-28-2013, 10:02 PM
Edward was able to fool a bunch of Templars in to believing he was a very knowledgeable and experienced Assassin just by using the small hints in the things they were saying and by driving the conversation in the right direction, in a time when he knew nothing about Assassins and Templars, he was definitely not stupid.

Probably the best improviser, there's that which you mentioned and also the Woodes Rogers assassination mission where he uses an Italian diplomat disguise and does an impression that sounds like you-know-who.

DetroitPlaya
11-28-2013, 10:16 PM
Notice how fast Edward was at learning how to use the hidden blade, based on the explanation from the templars (which was confirmed by the writer to be how he learns it)?

Don't underestimate Edward. He shows a lot of intelligence - especially later on, too, when you do the missions "...Everything is Permitted" As a character, Edward is the assassin to show most progression; including intelligence.

And intellect is a broad term, they all are intelligent in different ways. Accusing the Kenways of being stupid is just wrong.

Assassin_M
11-28-2013, 10:20 PM
I'd say they were all pretty Intelligent at some point of their lives. Altair's wisdom comes from the humility he faced, Ezio's comes from his eagerness to know, Connor's comes from his conviction and Edward's comes from his Idealism...none of the Assassins are "dumb" whoever says that about any of them is a blind fanboy to one of them..just the fact that they were talented and capable fighters disproves ANY of them being dumb.

Altair was a scholar, artist and inventor. his ideas were not his own, but few would actually rebuild an entire order based on some apple...the fact that he understood its designs and did not discard as a piece of sorcery or black magic says a lot about the man. he's a master diplomat and negotiator. a natural leader who can calm an entire revolt and reason with any dissent that may affect a united community. He alone managed to bring the Assassins together when everything went to hell TWICE. first after Al-mualim's death and then after the coup when he returned from Mongolia. He spread Assassin influence all over the globe and ensured the sect survives without a huge castle as its center. he has his dumb moments sometimes. in Solomon's temple for one and his attempt to spread the order's ideals to a region well under conflict (Constantinople)...

Ezio was a tactical and military strategy genius. he was educated in the art of war. he managed to single handedly bring down the Borgia with his divide and conquer strategy and rebuild the brotherhood in a city CRAWLING with corruption. He spread Assassin influence all over Europe and build a strong network of contact between the Assassins all over Italy. he was a capable diplomat, talented fighter, a smart businessman and talented leader. he owned successful ventures all over Italy. he mentored and trained various Assassins throughout Europe. he created strong bases for the Assassins everywhere around the old world and planted seeds for the ideals of freedom in all of those places..his dumb moments include his scuffing of Leonardo's idea of a flying machine and strategy in luring out Manuel Paliologios.

Connor was a fighter and hunter since his teens. He was well aware of the conflicts surrounding at that very age...he was fluent in English since he was 5 years old..he was taught in Philosophy, art of war, arts and culture by Achilles. he formed his own ideas about freedom and equality that were greatly advanced for their time. He was a strategic and capable captain, hunter, talented fighter, natural leader and trainer. he rebuilt the Brotherhood from the ground up and subsequently became its de facto leader and as Shahkulu said, managed to build a prosperous and model community that not even the likes of GW managed to create. A tactician and strategist, he managed to ensure the safety of many merchant routes throughout the east coast...his dumb actions include his getting imprisoned because of his brashness and his insurance of the removal of his people from their land by his belief in the patriots..

I wont speak about Edward too much because of spoilers, but the end of the matter is...they're all intelligent..they all formed their own philosophies and principles that revolved around the creed one way or another...this is the beauty of AC. The Creed as seen through the eyes of varied individuals in various life times..

Yoshack Fyre84
11-28-2013, 10:27 PM
I guess I misread a little. I read his post and forgot the title, MOST INTELLIGENT Assassin. I thought he was asking who was most likely to be a scholar if they didn't pursue the life of an Assassin. The most intelligent in general is much harder to discern, sorry OP for calling for question ridiculous. I couldn't venture a guess as to who had the highest IQ. They all have exceptional skills and the ability to pick things up quickly, granted though a lot of that comes from them being controlled by you and I the player, who have had 6 years experience controlling Assassin's. Ezio may not have been the smartest early on, but in the end he grew very wise. I would want to say Ezio, but that might also be because he is my favorite. The cop out is to say they were all equally smart. Actually, the cop out is this.............The most intelligent Assassin........DESMOND MILES!!!!!!!

Shahkulu101
11-28-2013, 10:34 PM
Most intelligent Assassin, well that's obvious.

Shaun Hastings, leaps and bounds above anyone in terms of knowledge.

ze_topazio
11-28-2013, 10:35 PM
Reading Assassin_M post remind me of another thing regarding Edward, he was a poor commoner, son of farmers, which means that, unlike the other Assassins, he most likely never received any education whatsoever.

DetroitPlaya
11-28-2013, 10:41 PM
So it got me thinking, who's the most intelligent Assassin? I'm not talking about wisdom but just general intelligence, i.e. ability to learn and reason and actually think for themselves without the teaching of the Assassins backing up just about everything they say.

Therefore; education irrelevant. It's all down to who has shown most signs of intelligence and be independent really, if we focus on that question.

Lochshot
11-28-2013, 10:41 PM
Guess I was a bit harsh saying Edward and Connor were stupid. None of the Assassins are stupid, I agree, but Edward **SPOILER**











just seems to be very quick to accuse Torres of trying to enslave mankind after having literally no teaching or previous knowledge on the situation involving Assassins and Templars, he barely knew who the Templars were in the grand scale of things. It just seemed a bit "Assassins told me you're a bad man and Templars are bad so I also think you're a bad man without any real basis behind my accusations", and he wasn't really in any position to be pointing out moral flaws. I guess I just meant from more of an intellectual point of view as opposed to how evasive or good at improvising they are, they're all great at that, they have to be. Also, Connor just seemed to be a bit of the same, being told they're bad people so he believes they're bad people, whereas Ezio and Altair just seemed to have a far stronger, more solid standing point on the whole thing. But yeah, I agree that none of them are stupid in terms of what they can do and what they did do.

DetroitPlaya
11-28-2013, 10:50 PM
Well, Torres says the Templar are "The secret and true Legislators of the World." and that their purpose is "To guide all wayward Souls 'till reach a quiet Road. To guide all wayward Desire 'till impassioned Hearts are cooled. To guide all wayward Minds to safe and sober Thought"

No wonder he comes to the coming to the conclusion they want to enslave the human race. Especially when he talks about the Observatory's power to reveal all secrets, break all lies, and it will be "pure justice." Yet, he wants it to be all theirs.

So..

If anything, Edward has show most in the case of; learning swiftly without a creed at his back.

Shahkulu101
11-28-2013, 10:59 PM
Guess I was a bit harsh saying Edward and Connor were stupid. None of the Assassins are stupid, I agree, but Edward **SPOILER**



just seems to be very quick to accuse Torres of trying to enslave mankind after having literally no teaching or previous knowledge on the situation involving Assassins and Templars, he barely knew who the Templars were in the grand scale of things. It just seemed a bit "Assassins told me you're a bad man and Templars are bad so I also think you're a bad man without any real basis behind my accusations", and he wasn't really in any position to be pointing out moral flaws. I guess I just meant from more of an intellectual point of view as opposed to how evasive or good at improvising they are, they're all great at that, they have to be. Also, Connor just seemed to be a bit of the same, being told they're bad people so he believes they're bad people, whereas Ezio and Altair just seemed to have a far stronger, more solid standing point on the whole thing. But yeah, I agree that none of them are stupid in terms of what they can do and what they did do.

Yeah but Ezio never really has to read between blurred lines. The Templars he fought were blatantly evil, cliche, mustache twirling villains. They were straight up bad people, who wanted power for powers sake and didn't want to change the world for the better. Unlike the Templars from the other games, there was no vision there for the greater future - Rodrigo and Cesare to a larger extent were far too one-dimensional. Also, when Ahmet, the only well-written Templar in the entire Ezio trilogy, Ahmet from ACR challenged Ezio's motives he got absolutely owned. I can't remember the exact quote, but AssassinM can back me up here.

I think you are right about Connor, he was to naive at first and quick to judge, but in the end he is a changed man and sees the world for what it really is after realizing true freedom and justice don't exist. With Edward, I think he was right. To monitor the entire world, that is incredibly extreme. He also felt very strongly about personal liberty and freedom as it was those principles that made Edward who he was, who is friends were and how his life turned out. The idea of the Templars taking that away? Well, it angers him understandably.

Assassin_M
11-28-2013, 11:03 PM
but AssassinM can back me up here.
Ezio: Liberty can be messy Ahmet, but it is priceless.
Ahmet: Of course and when the lights of Civilization dim, Ezio Auditore can stand above the darkness and say "I stayed true to my Creed"

Shahkulu101
11-28-2013, 11:07 PM
Ezio: Liberty can be messy Ahmet, but it is priceless.
Ahmet: Of course and when the lights of Civilization dim, Ezio Auditore can stand above the darkness and say "I stayed true to my Creed"

Awesuuumm

Yoshack Fyre84
11-28-2013, 11:22 PM
Most intelligent Assassin, well that's obvious.

Shaun Hastings, leaps and bounds above anyone in terms of knowledge.
Thanks for making my Desmond Miles answer seem stupid.