PDA

View Full Version : [Q] What is your stance on Il2compare software, 1C?



XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:48 PM
Question to the developing staff:

What is your stance towards the Il2compare software created by Youss, which claims to use in-game data from IL2:FB and presents performance comparison in a chart form?

According to the developer, the error margin as he claims, is +/- 5%, and uses decrypted data from the SFS files.

I am pretty sure you have heard of this software by now, and even aquired it and tested it yourselves.

Can the community trust it as a credible source which accurately portrays FB planes? If it is so, it really would save a lot of time in many of the discussions and in-game tests required in each of those numerous debates revolving over how FB planes perform within the game.

I would like to know if the staff of the 1C development team currently has any official, or unofficial comments on it.

If the IL2compare program is indeed credible, a lot of the charts suggested by the program needs some serious discussion.






-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:48 PM
Question to the developing staff:

What is your stance towards the Il2compare software created by Youss, which claims to use in-game data from IL2:FB and presents performance comparison in a chart form?

According to the developer, the error margin as he claims, is +/- 5%, and uses decrypted data from the SFS files.

I am pretty sure you have heard of this software by now, and even aquired it and tested it yourselves.

Can the community trust it as a credible source which accurately portrays FB planes? If it is so, it really would save a lot of time in many of the discussions and in-game tests required in each of those numerous debates revolving over how FB planes perform within the game.

I would like to know if the staff of the 1C development team currently has any official, or unofficial comments on it.

If the IL2compare program is indeed credible, a lot of the charts suggested by the program needs some serious discussion.






-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:25 PM
bump

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://forgottenwars.dyndns.org
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg

Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:36 PM
Ageed.

Bump



Kalo

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 02:06 PM
* Punt *

An answer would me nice. Should we trust it or not?



-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:47 PM
^
To the top!

http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/damned/reincarnation.jpg (http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/damned/)
Are you damned? (http://rumandmonkey.com/widgets/tests/damned/)
<

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:40 AM
Youss is working very closely with 1C team.

Program like this one should have been part of IL-2 from very beginning.
It brings all data in the open - nobody needs to speculate any longer.
It makes the task to of comparison of plane performance so easy and understandable even for a beginners.

Of course, some other charts of the performance characteristics should be added to it - like a roll rate, ability to switch between TAS and IAS (were applicable).



AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:39 AM
Bogun wrote:
- Youss is working very closely with 1C team.
-
- Program like this one should have been part of IL-2
- from very beginning.
- It brings all data in the open - nobody needs to
- speculate any longer.
- It makes the task to of comparison of plane
- performance so easy and understandable even for a
- beginners.

I agree with much of this, except the program only shows theoretical limits. In practice, some of the aircraft cannot achieve these values because of other more subtle effects such as overheat (one person reported the K series engine siezes about the same time as it hits its IL2 compare numbers, F's and G's all come up short.) Some aircraft inexplicably go past those values in the sim as well (LaGG '41.) It is an excellent starting point and points out things like the La-7 that inexplicably has a 16 sec sustained turn rate...vs. 18-19 in the object viewer, and 20.5 seconds in the literature (and yes, I tested it and got the 16 second turn rate as well.)

Would really love to have something that showed a 3d skeleton view of aircraft color coded for damage model (fuel tanks, armour, control cables/surfaces, engine, cooling, etc.)

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:50 AM
Bump as we need to know.

No1RAAF_Pourshot


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG

Ride it like ya stole it.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:45 AM
Bogun wrote:
- Youss is working very closely with 1C team.
-

I am glad to hear that he has the full support of the developers. Otherwise, he might have run afoul of the following Ubi IL2:FB copyright statements:
<blockquote>The Licence is granted solely for private use.

It is not permitted:
. . .
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
. . .
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.</blockquote>
-robster(44)

<a href="http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=325438&item=142832" border="2">
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/OWP/H0403L.jpg </a>
<h6>Time is a river without banks
[Le Temps n'a point de rives]. -- Marc Chagall</h6>


Message Edited on 09/16/0303:46AM by rbstr44

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:11 AM
Read somewhere that this excellent program will be included in next add-on.SimHQ forums I believe.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:10 AM
The fact, that this software displays the datas from FB doesn't mean, that they met the realistic datas /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:31 PM
VVS-Manuc wrote:
- The fact, that this software displays the datas from
- FB doesn't mean, that they met the realistic datas


Another question would be if they are happy with the compare program then are they happy with the performance data of the FB aircraft?



<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering


Message Edited on 09/16/0305:33AM by DKP

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:49 PM
kweassa wrote:
- According to the developer, the error margin as he
- claims, is +/- 5%, and uses decrypted data from the
- SFS files.

It does not use decrypted files.SFS data.



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:06 PM
Bogun..I agree....roll rate and IAS to TAS and other pertinent data would be real nice.
Bogun wrote:
- Youss is working very closely with 1C team.
-
- Program like this one should have been part of IL-2
- from very beginning.
- It brings all data in the open - nobody needs to
- speculate any longer.
- It makes the task to of comparison of plane
- performance so easy and understandable even for a
- beginners.
-
- Of course, some other charts of the performance
- characteristics should be added to it - like a roll
- rate, ability to switch between TAS and IAS (were
- applicable).
-
-
-
-
- AKA_Bogun
-
----------------
- The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction
- has to make sense.
-
-- Tom Clancy
-

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 12:53 PM
*punt*

-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:08 PM
Red_Harvest wrote:
-
- Bogun wrote:
-- Youss is working very closely with 1C team.
--
-- Program like this one should have been part of IL-2
-- from very beginning.
-- It brings all data in the open - nobody needs to
-- speculate any longer.
-- It makes the task to of comparison of plane
-- performance so easy and understandable even for a
-- beginners.
-
- I agree with much of this, except the program only
- shows theoretical limits. In practice, some of the
- aircraft cannot achieve these values because of
- other more subtle effects such as overheat (one
- person reported the K series engine siezes about the
- same time as it hits its IL2 compare numbers, F's
- and G's all come up short.) Some aircraft
- inexplicably go past those values in the sim as well
- (LaGG '41.) It is an excellent starting point and
- points out things like the La-7 that inexplicably
- has a 16 sec sustained turn rate...vs. 18-19 in the
- object viewer, and 20.5 seconds in the literature
- (and yes, I tested it and got the 16 second turn
- rate as well.)
-
- Would really love to have something that showed a 3d
- skeleton view of aircraft color coded for damage
- model (fuel tanks, armour, control cables/surfaces,
- engine, cooling, etc.)
-
-


I agree m8

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:49 PM
jurinko wrote:
-
- kweassa wrote:
-- According to the developer, the error margin as he
-- claims, is +/- 5%, and uses decrypted data from the
-- SFS files.
-
- It does not use decrypted files.SFS data.

I sure hope not!

This sim is supposed to run on formulae and computation!

I am hoping the compare is using numbers output from a 1C development tool.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:58 AM
You need numbers to be able to compute anything. Formulae alone are not enough.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 03:34 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- You need numbers to be able to compute anything.
- Formulae alone are not enough.
-
-

You missed the point entirely.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:26 AM
You mistated the point entirely. lol

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 12:50 PM
Okay, fair, don't bother thinking past yer snout.

Here: IF I could drag the performance numbers directly from an SFS file then the sim would be table-driven, and it's not supposed to be, therefore I'm happy with Jurinkos' post!

Perhaps 1+1 is easy enough for some while 3-1 is just too hard?
The answer both times is 2.
The 'hard' part for some is they are not worked the same way.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:56 PM
Perhaps being *not* an obnoxious a$$hole is too difficult for you? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif All too easy to draw out. You really gotta get a life dude. There's more to it than this game ya know.

Furthermore, there is nothing saying that he didn't obtain the formulae as well as the data. Hell, there's nothing saying that both *aren't* in the .sfs file. Ever notice that changing that changes the FMs? Probably not. lol

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:39 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- Perhaps being *not* an obnoxious a$$hole is too
- difficult for you? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif All too easy to draw
- out. You really gotta get a life dude. There's more
- to it than this game ya know.

YOU "draw me out" and then call me that?

What I should expect from someone who judges a Comp-Sci major by their lack of tech abilities. There was a joke I heard in the mid-80's:

Q) How many programmers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A) Can't be done, it's a hardware problem!

It didn't bother me as I did both jobs at above average skill without any degree.

- Furthermore, there is nothing saying that he didn't
- obtain the formulae as well as the data.

The point of my first post was about that. I was relieved in one sense.

- Hell,
- there's nothing saying that both *aren't* in the
- .sfs file. Ever notice that changing that changes
- the FMs? Probably not. lol

No, I just TOTALLY missed that. You mean the planes fly different? Gee, - who - would - have - guessed - ?

Algorithms and data alone are not enough for more than a rough measure. Run time interactions may render use of those alone as more than any 5% off.

BTW: Get your own life, Troll.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:50 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

God you suck. lol You simply can't say a word without it being rife with invective and sarcasm. You really do need a life man. It's so sad it's actually funny. lol

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:36 AM
Still no official word on this very useful utility?

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 06:26 AM
This is from the discussion in simhq:

http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=003812;p=2

ROSS_Youss:
"wow... big discussion...

Data for the programm i got NOT FROM DECRYPT sfs-file.

All data i got from special programs. This programs calculate all values with usage FM-algorytm from IL2:FB.

This program writed in cooperation with Maddox Games and may be you will see it in Addon-CD. Atlast MG ask me about include program in this CD.



Are all data from program identical to 1.11?

NO!

Data in program calculated by algoritm from version 1.11. But this is small eased algoritm - some factors not included in calculation.

Data in game and data in ILC are different.

Differents are 2-3% for main part of crafts and +-5% for some crafts. Biggest diference in turn-calculation of bombers.

I think this is nice accuracy.

If you look at TB-3 - you will se "14 sec to turn". You can not get this in game.

All fighters data different from game data at +-2-5%.

I think - now you can believe to charts in program. I know - this program used in MG."

Obviously it takes aerodynamic coefficients and power curves and uses FM algorhytmes to calculate the data.
Of course raises an interesting question if something comes out of the code isn't it possible to put something in?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-------------------------------------
http://people.freenet.de/hausberg/schimpf.gif