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Wolfmeister1010
11-23-2013, 05:48 AM
The stealth in ACIV is more defined than in the last installments by far. But there is one thing that commonly ruins the stealth.

I can understand that the gunner should have a long range of vision, but JESUS not THAT big of a range. I did some tests, and they can detect you as far away as you are possible to hit them with the blowpipe. Because of this, it is sometimes impossible to NOT get detected by them, and they are able to see halfway across all plantations.

They can see you as soon as you just poke a little bit of yourself out of cover. Even if you are behind a bunch of bushes, trees, or buildings, as long as JUST A SLIVER of your body is showing, they will immediately go into wary mode. They can see dead bodies from EXTREMELY far away.

I thought that they were just supposed to be difficult to fight WHEN you were detected, and not be extremely easy to fight but impossible to use stealth against.

I like to try to use stealth without using the blowpipe too much, since I feel that kinda makes it easy. I NEVER use the berserk dart. Because if I wanted to start a huge brawl in the middle of a restricted area, I may as well fight myself.

It is one of those things that just kinda hurts the experience. I hope that they can maybe patch in a slightly less telepathic range of vision for the gunners.

I don't know. What do you think?

ProletariatPleb
11-23-2013, 06:00 AM
I think they're perfect. I have to look around and run from bush to bush or whatever hiding spot is near. Making short sprints, hoping I can reach the next point before the detection meter fills up completely if it's a long distance. Plus there's sleeping darts.

I rarely even use darts tho, it's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from hard to get past them. I mostly use sleeping darts during stalking missions, to keep up the pace.

itsamea-mario
11-23-2013, 06:07 AM
Believe it or not, humans can usually see more than 20ft, especially if said human is someone who was deemed good enough to be a lookout.

ace3001
11-23-2013, 06:07 AM
They sure seem to have a really wide range of vision. I'm sure the guard placements are done with the blowpipe in mind. At some points, you have no choice but to put a couple of people to sleep if you want to not be detected.
Could be different with the stealth outfit which apparently reduces chance of discovery, so maybe you can go stealthily without using the blowpipe, but I never tried it since it looks so ugly compared to the Templar armor that I'm using now.

AngryRaisin
11-23-2013, 06:13 AM
I have found that even though they seem to see you they are easily hid from by ducking for cover and are slow to react if you just charge them up their towers or that sort of thing. And they are easy to fool in the bushes if you let them see you so they come (while they are yellow) and then duck and sneak to where they are and stealth kill them.

Landruner
11-23-2013, 06:24 AM
The stealth in ACIV is more defined than in the last installments by far. But there is one thing that commonly ruins the stealth.

I can understand that the gunner should have a long range of vision, but JESUS not THAT big of a range. I did some tests, and they can detect you as far away as you are possible to hit them with the blowpipe. Because of this, it is sometimes impossible to NOT get detected by them, and they are able to see halfway across all plantations.

They can see you as soon as you just poke a little bit of yourself out of cover. Even if you are behind a bunch of bushes, trees, or buildings, as long as JUST A SLIVER of your body is showing, they will immediately go into wary mode. They can see dead bodies from EXTREMELY far away.

I thought that they were just supposed to be difficult to fight WHEN you were detected, and not be extremely easy to fight but impossible to use stealth against.

I like to try to use stealth without using the blowpipe too much, since I feel that kinda makes it easy. I NEVER use the berserk dart. Because if I wanted to start a huge brawl in the middle of a restricted area, I may as well fight myself.

It is one of those things that just kinda hurts the experience. I hope that they can maybe patch in a slightly less telepathic range of vision for the gunners.

I don't know. What do you think?

I think that it is a problem in the AI balance and the routine pattern of the guards/gunners on the towers, and the stealth of the character that had been dumbed down - The range of the gunners is too excessive for making the stealth homogeny with the situation, and this is even more chocking since the gunners from the towers have not only an extra sight more elaborated than the guards down bellow and it makes things even odder for the player and it can be an immersion braker for some. It even get worse when you have 2 guards on the same tower, you have almost no way of not being seen.

Also some point of stealth abilities had been removed between the stealth points where player can hide. So consequently. the fact of moving among those hiding points make your character being seen and spotted immediately by those gunners.

I understand that during the configuration of the locations were the gunners are, the designers tried to make those gunners with more sight range, but they did not set their routine pattern on the tower correctly because the configuration was supposed to offer more stealth ability for the player, but with that configuration like it is now, it does not work like it should have.

If you observe them their routines is too fast in the tower and they don't leave time to the player to actually move without being seen, and you have no way to remind hidden anywhere while moving from those hidden spot since the stealth abilities are gone.

I believe that both the sight range and the routine pattern had been not worked enough comparing to what it should have been done for working the way they intended it in first place. Also I believe that the really need to re-work on the stealth system for the character.

I believe they seriously need to re-work on the AI in general for the next game and if they set and use the same type of gunner via towers or elevation, make sure that they have a limited range OR better a pattern on their routine that offers some longer pauses when they turn their back to the player. Also and once again I believe that the really need to re-work on the stealth system for the character!

roostersrule2
11-23-2013, 07:32 AM
Well if you can hit them with a blow pipe on lower ground they would be able to see you from higher ground, it's hardly telepathic.

Landruner
11-23-2013, 08:04 AM
Well if you can hit them with a blow pipe on lower ground they would be able to see you from higher ground, it's hardly telepathic.

Yes you are right, but the point that Wolfmeister was trying to make I believe is a metaphorical image showing that the gunners can see you from far even before you can use the blow and pipe them down and you have almost no way to get closer without being seen.
In short: You have almost no way to enter in some restricted area without being systematically spotted by those gunners first, and you are out of range to use the blow against them. it is not telepathic it is "telepathetic" LOL!

ProletariatPleb
11-23-2013, 08:12 AM
Yes you are right, but the point that Wolfmeister was trying to make I believe is a metaphorical image showing that the gunners can see you from far even before you can use the blow and pipe them down and you have almost no way to get closer without being seen. I was able to manage some stealthy moves and blow them down with the sleeping darts to give me a brake in my moves to remind hidden the time they sleep, but it was more based upon on the luck that a strategy or even my player skills. (Besides I wish that we could have a more lethal dart than the berserk dart in order to pipe them down silently like a real Jivaro since they spot you again when they wake up or you alert everybody if you used the berserk one).
In short: You have almost no way to enter in some restricted area without being systematically spotted by those gunners first, and you are out of range to use the blow against them. it is not telepathic it is "telepathetic" LOL!

I don't know about you but I haven't had any such experience. It's child's play to get past them

Landruner
11-23-2013, 08:28 AM
I don't know about you but I haven't had any suck experience. It's child's play to get past them

You got me before I re-edited and corrected my post above I made it shorter LOL!
Well, yep but honestly, I played like you I am sure some other games that use that type of gunners set on higher spots and you don't get that spotted like in that one, I mean I could manage my way sure, but being spotted (with consequences or not) it is just annoying, and you know it not because of your skills. I don't know if you play it but just take Far Cry 3 when I got spotted during snaking I knew it was because of my own damned fault, and not because the AI of the game was not set properly.

Hans684
11-23-2013, 10:36 AM
You got me before I re-edited and corrected my post above I made it shorter LOL!
Well, yep but honestly, I played like you I am sure some other games that use that type of gunners set on higher spots and you don't get that spotted like in that one, I mean I could manage my way sure, but being spotted (with consequences or not) it is just annoying, and you know it not because of your skills. I don't know if you play it but just take Far Cry 3 when I got spotted during snaking I knew it was because of my own damned fault, and not because the AI of the game was not set properly.

Then it's the players fault, something making this complain kinda useless.

LoyalACFan
11-23-2013, 11:00 AM
... Just look for the guard towers before attempting to take the key, skirt around behind them, climb up and stab them. It's slightly harder when there's two of them in the same perch, but even if you get into combat in the tower, the guards on the ground won't magically detect you like AC3, so just boot them off the roof and you're done.

PedroAntonio2
11-23-2013, 01:26 PM
Complains about the blowpipe making the game too easy, but wants the gunners to be more dumb, so his game can be easier.