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View Full Version : Green Day "Oh Love" and "American Idiot" Wrong key



WickedBadz
11-20-2013, 10:43 AM
Both songs are played in E flat...why are they listed as E Standard in the game? Plug into a amp and try playing them in E standard and hear how bad they sound.....Green Day rarely plays in E Standard tuning...almost everything they do is in E Flat, including both these songs.....the entire Oh Love chart is all flats...didn't that tell the charter something was wrong? Which ummm as a guitar player you'd realize your tuning is wrong....and would tune differently, which in this case is E Flat...in American Idiot it's worse sounding because of the open strings being played are a half step out of tune

toymachinesh
11-20-2013, 01:25 PM
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

dm_gsxr
11-20-2013, 05:18 PM
Per wikipedia (take it with a grain of salt as always):

Oh Love:


"Oh Love" is a power pop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_pop) song with a length of five minutes and two seconds.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_Love#cite_note-powerpop-10)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_Love#cite_note-itunes-11) The song is in the key of A♭ major (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-flat_major) and uses a progression of I-IV-I-V-I for the words "Oh Love"

Ultimate Guitar tab shows American Idiot as Standard Tuning. Again, grain of salt. I can't find it anywhere else on the 'net.

I have the Dookie tab book and the entire album is Eb tuning.

Carl

Gold_Jim
11-20-2013, 08:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRaU5Zwa4do

Gold_Jim
11-20-2013, 08:24 PM
RS just plays it one fret lower, starting on G# rather than A. It's played in A with the guitar tuned a 1/2 step down. It's a rather moot argument when you don't use open strings, because the sound doesn't really change to the average listener.

As Carl has pointed out, the song, "Oh Love" is also in Ab, but that's the actual tone. Again, the song is played in A and the band tunes down 1/2 step. No one here is wrong. The argument is moot.

edited to add: I am glad to point out that I was incorrect. They are playing the tunes at the 4th fret, not the 5th fret (A), and in standard tune. I'd still cover them in 1/2 step down, because you really can't let open strings ring or use and open A if you want. Not sure why BJA started using standard tuning then just played a fret lower. No real logic except maybe he was being handed his guitar in standard tuning by a guitar tech. :D

WickedBadz
11-20-2013, 08:24 PM
Per wikipedia (take it with a grain of salt as always):

Oh Love:



Ultimate Guitar tab shows American Idiot as Standard Tuning. Again, grain of salt. I can't find it anywhere else on the 'net.

I have the Dookie tab book and the entire album is Eb tuning.

Carl[/FONT][/COLOR]

Right, to play in a flat you tune to e flat, almost every green day song written is in e flat tuning, it's his go to tuning...as per the video you see he clearly states its tuned to e flat but he plays it in standard tuning which is fine but not correct. Like I said they are very simple songs, try playing them in e standard tuning to the original and you'll quickly hear you're out of tune. I laugh at these charts full of flat notes in a standard tuning that isn't even those notes

Gold_Jim
11-20-2013, 08:31 PM
And Toy, before you mention the "solo" in American Idiot, let's not forget that he's just stepping into the bass player's run here. He's not playing a real solo. :D

toymachinesh
11-20-2013, 11:58 PM
And Toy, before you mention the "solo" in American Idiot, let's not forget that he's just stepping into the bass player's run here. He's not playing a real solo. :D

The real solo is in Oh Love, and I could not find one TAB online that has American Idiot or that song in Eb

thoman23
11-21-2013, 12:46 AM
RS just plays it one fret lower, starting on G# rather than A. It's played in A with the guitar tuned a 1/2 step down. It's a rather moot argument when you don't use open strings, because the sound doesn't really change to the average listener.

As Carl has pointed out, the song, "Oh Love" is also in Ab, but that's the actual tone. Again, the song is played in A and the band tunes down 1/2 step. No one here is wrong. The argument is moot.

Well, not completely moot right? Because as WickedBadz originally pointed out, American Idiot has a bunch of open string strums in there which are then a half step sharp if the original track was actually played with Eb tuning.

Gold_Jim
11-21-2013, 07:11 AM
Well, not completely moot right? Because as WickedBadz originally pointed out, American Idiot has a bunch of open string strums in there which are then a half step sharp if the original track was actually played with Eb tuning.

I didn't purchase the DLC, but I watched a video of someone playing the song in RS, and there were no open strings. Just the chords and the A and high E string riff that's played in American Idiot. No open strings used at all. Watching several live videos of them playing the song, BJ is actually playing at the 4th fret, which means that RS got it right and the assumption that he was playing at the 5th fret is incorrect. A different guitarist plays the riff here (except a 2 note thing that BJ is doing to let him get back to the tinny solo outro).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PxvzlBYf0

Gold_Jim
11-21-2013, 07:22 AM
The real solo is in Oh Love, and I could not find one TAB online that has American Idiot or that song in Eb

That's a real solo? :D

Here's "Oh Love". I'd be happy to break that down note for note for you from the video, Toy, and I hope you won't be let down by the fact that they used a pentatonic scale and simple chords. LOL But seriously, no open notes here either. This is also in standard tuning, and he elects to play on even frets. The problem lies in if one is covering this song, open strings become useless for soloing over the chord progressions, so unless you stay with the closed note patters that they are using, tuning down is still your best option. Another thing is that unlike my favorite 3-chord, pentatonic aforementioned band, you'll notice that the chord shapes used by each guitarist are identical. There are a lot of problems with playing this way, not the least of which is though it's supposed to make it sound thicker in the studio, it can get muddy in a large live setting, especially outdoors or arenas. Still nothing beyond beginner or early intermediate here. Again, I'm not saying that they are horrible, blah, blah... just that there's not a wow factor in what you'll learn from these songs. You can learn the whole song by watching this video (and the last that I posted) without offering $2.99+tax. Plus, you get the satisfaction to say you learned it on your own. :D (just messing with you now. No harm meant.)

edited to add: Wonder what happened to their regular bassist during this show. That's the regular live guitarist and the normal drummer. Was there a falling out?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5vm2UGGIos

toymachinesh
11-21-2013, 10:53 AM
Yeah but you said they don't play guitar solos, that was the only point of mentioning that :)

Maybe Mike Dirnt was sick?

Wrathchild4312
11-21-2013, 10:59 AM
Green Day sold out going on that pile of poop show! What were they thinking?

Gold_Jim
11-21-2013, 02:21 PM
Yeah but you said they don't play guitar solos, that was the only point of mentioning that :)

Maybe Mike Dirnt was sick?

Just poking at the tiger. Nothing meant by it.

I was surprised to see yet another backup guitarist and keyboardist and what looked like a guy trying very hard to look like Dirnt. The thing that's made me respect these guys all these years was that it wasn't about the $$, it was about their music, so the band stayed together. I hadn't heard any news that Dirnt had left, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all is well.

@ Biggsy4312, as far as selling out goes, releasing a record isn't enough to give bands the exposure that they need. Unfortunately, with MTV, VH1, and even CMT only worried about playing movies and BS reality shows, music is the last thing they show. Shows like The Voice, America's Got Talent, and American Idol are the only place where they can get into your living rooms and invade the minds of kids. I remember as a kid watching Solid Gold with the hopes of catching the latest bands. When I got old enough, there was Saturday Night Live, Fridays (yes, that was a TV show), and of course, Johnny Carson's Tonight Show. We were 100 miles from anywhere that we could catch decent music. Even then, bands like Pink Floyd were groups that you could only catch on the road, because they had no television exposure. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

edited to add: And you'll hear stories for years about how it was kids who's siblings, parents or friends listened to bubblegum crap and then were briefly exposed to something different that started revolutions in music. Just because the show is white and fluffy doesn't mean that a band like Green Day won't reach new audiences on it.

Marauder359
11-21-2013, 02:51 PM
Looking at Armstrong to determine the lead guitar part isn't exactly conclusive, since he's not the lead guitarist of the band... Green Day is no longer a 3 piece band, their long-time concert lead guitarist is now simply their lead guitarist... no qualifications... Just saying. :)

Gold_Jim
11-21-2013, 04:35 PM
Looking at Armstrong to determine the lead guitar part isn't exactly conclusive, since he's not the lead guitarist of the band... Green Day is no longer a 3 piece band, their long-time concert lead guitarist is now simply their lead guitarist... no qualifications... Just saying. :)

That's who I was watching. As I said, BJA just played a couple of notes (needle-deedle-deedle-deedle-weedle-dee-dee). :D

Marauder359
11-21-2013, 04:59 PM
Yeah, my bad... misread. Carry on :)

thoman23
11-21-2013, 06:42 PM
I didn't purchase the DLC, but I watched a video of someone playing the song in RS, and there were no open strings. Just the chords and the A and high E string riff that's played in American Idiot. No open strings used at all.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but dems looks like open strings to me.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/thoman2/AmericanIdiot_zpsd4e46fa5.png

TheJohnNewton
11-21-2013, 07:09 PM
So that's not Mike Dirnt? I'm not a Green Day groupie but if it's not him then they sure found a good look a like.

WickedBadz
11-21-2013, 07:38 PM
All you got to do like I said is learn the songs the Rocksmith way then try and play them against the originals and you'll hear you are out of tune....Green Day uses E Flat tuning for 99% of their songs. Also as posted, as soon as you hit open notes you now hit standard notes in a song fully charted in flats....music doesn't work that way those open's stand out like a sore thumb as do all the other incorrectly played notes because the song isn't in the right running.....I could totally understand them doing this if E Flat tuning wasn't available but it is.....Whoever charted these DLC's had no clue what they are doing and obviously never played them and knows nothing at all about music.
As far as online tabs go...well who cares what incorrect tabs tell you? If the band played in E Flat they played in E Flat no matter what a online tab says....most online tabs are incorrect anyhow....again...it's simple to see they're wrong, play them with the originals and you'll hear it, unless you're tone deaf....pop the guitar in a amp strum those easy power chords in E and hear how wrong they sound.
E Flat is a difficult tuning, that's why most tabs are changed to E Standard because a lot of people don't understand how to tune to E Flat with a tuner that doesn't have E Flat marked on it

Gold_Jim
11-21-2013, 11:49 PM
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but dems looks like open strings to me.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/thoman2/AmericanIdiot_zpsd4e46fa5.png

2 Things:

1. Watch the video I posted earlier of American Idiot. They use the non-diatonic open strings. It's plain as day if you listen just after the solo. They don't fit with the chords, but hey, it's punk, so it works.

2. Green Day is definitely playing it in standard tuning and using closed chords. BJA and his other guitarist are playing the exact same voicings in every single live video I found. They are 100% playing at the 4th fret (G#) and the song sounds as played in standard tune.

edited to add: Funny, RS calls the first chord Ab in one arrangement and G# in another. I guess they just picked the chord name randomly. :D No knock, just thought it was funny.

thoman23
11-22-2013, 01:53 AM
2 Things:

1. Watch the video I posted earlier of American Idiot. They use the non-diatonic open strings. It's plain as day if you listen just after the solo. They don't fit with the chords, but hey, it's punk, so it works.

2. Green Day is definitely playing it in standard tuning and using closed chords. BJA and his other guitarist are playing the exact same voicings in every single live video I found. They are 100% playing at the 4th fret (G#) and the song sounds as played in standard tune.

edited to add: Funny, RS calls the first chord Ab in one arrangement and G# in another. I guess they just picked the chord name randomly. :D No knock, just thought it was funny.

I'll respond to that as soon as I figure out what non-diatonic open strings are. Pretty sure that's book-learnin' talk for "wail on the strings and make some punk rock noise". :p

I'm not saying it's not supposed to be in E Standard tuning...I was just saying that the question of tuning is not moot because of the open strings used. But I guess your point is that them there "non-diatonic open strings" sound like punk-rock no matter what the tuning is.

Gold_Jim
11-22-2013, 02:47 PM
I'll respond to that as soon as I figure out what non-diatonic open strings are. Pretty sure that's book-learnin' talk for "wail on the strings and make some punk rock noise". :p

I'm not saying it's not supposed to be in E Standard tuning...I was just saying that the question of tuning is not moot because of the open strings used. But I guess your point is that them there "non-diatonic open strings" sound like punk-rock no matter what the tuning is.

I'll be honest, I never would have put the open strings in there, but that's a trained musician for you, right. ? :D

Non-diatonic means that the notes don't fit the scale. The song is in Ab, so an open E would be a flatted sixth, A would be a flatted 2nd, D would be a flatted 5th... You get the point. If we were to break the individual notes out and play them individually, there would be an argument that we're working in a mixed mode (major/minor), but played together, the chord would completely not fit. The reason it 'fits' in this case is two-fold. One - it is a short hit that is resolving to a chord in the key and Two - All three musicians are playing it together, so it doesn't ring against the other instruments. To see what I mean, play an Ab chord and loop it. Then play the open strings against it, and it will sound like you're out of tune.

Marauder359
11-22-2013, 04:53 PM
::Slowly backs out of the thread before he drowns in his own lack of understanding::

toymachinesh
11-22-2013, 05:07 PM
I think they completely nailed the tone in all three songs personally...

BazzTard61
11-23-2013, 04:43 AM
see? thats what happens when you introduce POP songs in a supposedly ROCKsmith game

every music game is incomplete without Beatles,Led Zep and Sabbath

WickedBadz
11-25-2013, 05:13 AM
I'll be honest, I never would have put the open strings in there, but that's a trained musician for you, right. ? :D

Non-diatonic means that the notes don't fit the scale. The song is in Ab, so an open E would be a flatted sixth, A would be a flatted 2nd, D would be a flatted 5th... You get the point. If we were to break the individual notes out and play them individually, there would be an argument that we're working in a mixed mode (major/minor), but played together, the chord would completely not fit. The reason it 'fits' in this case is two-fold. One - it is a short hit that is resolving to a chord in the key and Two - All three musicians are playing it together, so it doesn't ring against the other instruments. To see what I mean, play an Ab chord and loop it. Then play the open strings against it, and it will sound like you're out of tune.

If the Rocksmith way is right why don't you upload a video of yourself playing it the Rocksmith way along side Green Day's original song....I'd love to hear it and laugh...as will everyone else that hears it...sorry to tell you this but there is no way to play a E Flat song in standard tuning.....you know guitar has been around a long time and tunings are there for a reason a e standard tuning is not correct to play a e flat tuned song in...these charts are wrong, period. Green Day does not use standard tuning, they haven't for a long time now....they openly admit it all the time, it's not top secret......saying hitting open strings in the wrong tuning is just punk is wrong...it's a mess you'll sound terrible as you will with the entire chart by playing in standard tuning....it's played on a guitar or bass tuned in e flat......prove me wrong....prove the world wrong, upload yourself playing Green Day in E standard tuning along side THEIR song, not a back track.,

By those video's camera angles you can't say for sure what fret he's on but you sure can hear he isn't playing in standard tuning when you play the song to his original......Green Day does a concert, plays 99% of their songs tuned in E flat and you want me to believe he changes axes for 2 songs...he doesn't and never has...they play entirely in E Flat....watch them live and see for yourself.

LvlNinety9
11-25-2013, 06:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHVTeDBLsW0

Ok so here is a pretty clear video of him playing American Idiot and call me stupid but it looks to me like he is playing around the 4th fret. It shows it pretty clear at the 41 second mark.

The_Penguin222
11-27-2013, 03:26 PM
Ok so here is a pretty clear video of him playing American Idiot and call me stupid but it looks to me like he is playing around the 4th fret. It shows it pretty clear at the 41 second mark.

Agreed, crystal clear. I bought the DLC pack and tried 'em, they sound pretty good to me. Basket Case is done tuned-down, which IS how they play it, but as we've seen in all of the videos posted, They obviously play American Idiot in standard tuning.

toymachinesh
11-27-2013, 04:09 PM
Yup, the songs are played in Standard, the end.

Marauder359
11-27-2013, 05:20 PM
Green Day does a concert, plays 99% of their songs tuned in E flat and you want me to believe he changes axes for 2 songs...he doesn't and never has...they play entirely in E Flat....watch them live and see for yourself.

Actually, for almost all the newer stuff, post Nimrod, he changes guitars on stage all the time.

XruriniX
05-28-2014, 03:50 AM
So, here is yet another video. This one was filmed in 2004. They are clearly playing in Eb. Specifically, American Idiot is using frets 3 and 5 as opposed to 2 and 4 respectively. For the last 3 songs there is a guitar change, which I can only assume is to change keys quickly. I have also seem the same from the live DVD/CD set Bullet in a Bible. Frankly I was surprised that RS has American Idiot in E standard. Then again, the album version uses a custom tuning in my opinion (with strings 3-6 dropped down a half step). As a result you can get a very close sound to the album cover with either tuning (by adjusting your fretting, of course).


http://youtu.be/fOCNIUU7QI4

Gold_Jim
06-05-2014, 04:15 PM
Again, my case is made for the non-diatonic open strings, which are NOT tuned down 1/2 step.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUxal9Qvhlo