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Wolfmeister1010
11-14-2013, 03:42 AM
I know that AC4 just came out. And not only is it my favorite AC game, but also one of my favorite videogames of all time. But there is always room for improvement. Here are some things that I think should be added in the next AC:

1. Crouching system:

Darby was right in saying that the whole "crouching" situation in and out of stalking zones and stuff would not work unless there is a whole system to work with. In addition to being a great aesthetic (not every feature needs to be 100% gameplay oriented) it would also be very good gameplay wise, such as letting you move stealthily between stalking zones, as crouching makes you hidden behind the bush from enemy sight. And also such as giving you the ability to take cover behind low lying walls and carts that litter the streets in every AC game, and maybe then create some awesome "mass effect 3" style assassinations from behind low cover. Since the brotherhood system seems to be gone from the series in exchange for good stealth gameplay, and the weapon "wheel" is set to the dpad, something I think will remain in the series for a while, there are a few options of where to map the button. Of course if you crouch in places like cities you will attract attention. And AC became less of a social stealth game and more of an environmental stealth game as soon as they decided to place a game half in the absolute wilderness.

2. Better customization

Allow us to modify individual parts of the outfit like the belt, hood style, boots, I dont know. And even though I am not one of the people who is extremely annoyed by this, it would also be nice to be able to remove certain weapons without glitching.

3. Better blood

The blood in all Acs looks like red streamers. I wish they would make it more...liquidy? And make it puddle on the ground from corpses instead of just flickering specks of blood on the ground.

4. More dynamic events

The more the better. Make them more unique, like saving a woman from a drunk guy harassing her, or chasing down a thief who stole someone's money.


Well I am out of ideas. Please add your own ideas and stuff.

xx-pyro
11-14-2013, 04:05 AM
The only one I feel is important enough to really consider is 4.

1- Stealth gameplay is fine, AI just needs to be seriously tuned up.
2- There are a bunch of RPG's out there to satisfy this, AC isn't one of them. There's enough customization already I feel, and devoting more resources to it is unecessary and they could be better used.
3- Not particularly against it, but again not one of the things I'd particularly care about if they improved. They have more important systems to work on in my opinion.


What I think needs to be worked on/possible improvements I'd like made in future AC titles:

Stealth

1. In terms of stealth gameplay, simply add a few more options. The controls and base system are fine in my opinion, but perhaps a few more hiding spots (organic ones though) would be perfect. By this I mean perhaps we could lean and crouch around boxes like we do when we lean around walls, and maybe lean around trees the same was we do around walls (not sure if this is already possible, don't recall trying it).

2. The AI needs a serious overhaul, make it easier to be spotted, and make them actually try to find you when you go back into a stalking zone. In a city, maybe they won't look as hard for you as they would on a deserted island where there really shouldn't be anyone but them. If a guard dies all guards should be permanently searching for you (within the area) until they find you or you leave for a respectable amount of time.

3. Keep the style of weapons and gadgets from AC4 (I don't mean exactly the same ones), in that your long range weapon doesn't kill the guards (a la crossbow in ACB->ACR/bow in AC3). I really liked the blow darts, however if you put a guard to sleep next to another guard, that guard should probably be waking them up. I get it's like anesthetic but the amount in a blow dart wouldn't knock you out beyond the point of waking back up.

4. Better blending animations, but NOT like AC3's. I don't want to walk up to people and wave my arms around like I'm doing the chicken dance. Maybe in cities around markets I can go and converse with a vender, pick up an apple, that sort of thing. If there's an animal like a dog roaming the city I can lean over and pet it or play with it or something (which would keep me blended for the duration), there are so many options here and with next-gen around the corner there shouldn't be any reason for strong blending animations not to be in the game.

To tag along to point 4, get rid of the gray and white fade while blended, or the lasers shooting out of my head a la AC3. Something subtle that could be done that I mentioned on another thread could be simply to turn the SSI indicator a different colour, such as a light blue, when you're blended with a crowd. Even better (although harder to describe), if you have a border around the SSI, you could make it rotate once every 3 seconds while blended, and have just the border turn blue.

Will edit other areas of gameplay in later/when not busy

Landruner
11-14-2013, 06:18 AM
I agree with your 4 points mentioned above.1/ Stealth system needs to be improved and the game needs to leave the player to be in control of the stealth system - They need to set several AI differences of type accordingly with the degree of situation the player is experimenting, and reworking the restructure of the level design where stealth could happen (I left a detailed example on another thread - example of the different degree of AI and stealth I am referring there - I try to find it and post it later).

Found it I put it under SPOILER because it is long but it is not a Spoiler:

I believe the best solution is that their use different types of AI for the free roaming and the social stealth and the more discreet stealth [restricted area] Make sure that to redesign the locations for the social stealth and stalking (Locations can offer several ways to follow the target, using interior to pass through, using set of items to hide, using hidden orifice to pass trough, using roofs of course, and using people that are set in a proper way that player that easily blend with them and make the all thing more natural and immersive. Stopping putting a time-up if player looses the target or replacing it by something more interesting and less frustrating... If ear-dropping has to happen make sure it happen in a spot that make sense to the player.

Here is bellow an example the all concept for explaining what I try to say above (Sorry it is long) Player is free roaming guards and people have the same type of level they currently have, player goes the way as we know it...

A mission starts, (Follow that guys, learn where his brother lives and then, kill his brother)

1/ The AI changes (Guards and people) and no more time running to stress about if we loose the guy,
- Player starts stalking and if player uses his eagle vision the guy to follow will be green (or whatever color or icon),
- Then the guy goes to a specific location redesigned for that mission with people being scripted for the situations and event of that mission,
- Player can interact with people around him - drinks, talks, or fake anything he needs to do for reminding discreet during the stalking and already social blending becomes more interesting more natural and less random as it is.
- Player can follow the guy in any way it want and by any direction he/she wants in a limited perimeter reserved by the designed path.
- Player can use to follow the Guy at distance, by the roofs, in passing inside homes, garden or even anticipate the guy and be a bit ahead of him, anything as long as the guy does not notice the player's presence.
- Player can use specific "Fraction" or specific NPC/people for distracting guards along the way, or for provoking distraction for that offer more variety to do it. (Ex give a dime to a kid for stealing an apple to a stand and removing the attention of the guards or the guy for reminding discreet and make you way to a specific direction - roof, garden, or inside a home, each time player use a combo diversion, player gets rewards for using those diversion combos strategy)

A/ If the guy remarks that he is being followed player can notice it with the eagle vision the guy will be now orange, and player has to be more discreet because he knows that the guy is being followed. The guy complain to guards that he is suspicious and player has to discreetly hide or blend with people - if player decides to run away guard will chase...
- Player can use a fraction to cause a diversion.
B/ If player losses the guy, well, either player can use the eagle vision to relocate the target or (Why not) asks someone if he/she did not see it. interrogate people to find the guy that we have to follow -
- Player can ask or interrogate people around to relocate the guy also
- Player relocates the guy and the stalking recommence...,
- The guy enters into a tavern in order to join another person for conversation (Ear dropping) -
- Player has to find a way to enter inside the tavern without using the entrance door and not being remarked...OR he goes inside and social blend
- Player ear-drops conversation....
- Player knows for location of the target to kill.
- Player exit tavern and has to find location, player uses Eagle vision for narrowing the location (location has to be not too far from tavern and eagle sense gives him a trail to locate the target location to follow) or interrogate NPCs to know the direction.
- Player gets close to the location of the target, it is a mansion and it is guarded.

2/ Then, player has to infiltrate the mansion - New AI for guards (those guards are more alert that the ones of the free roaming, and the ones crossed during the stalking, and they are tougher to fight as well). Player can have 2 options to choose from

A/ - Player can infiltrate that mansion and can uses a different stealth mod (player can control the stealth by crouching and blinding with environment). Once again guards are set in a way that makes sense and proper for being stealthy. Target can move inside his place offering several spot for the player to strike from. Guard are very smart, (example if someone is missing from a patrol they will notice it and become more and more suspicious)
One again. player can use some items in the location for creating diversions if he/she chooses to...and gets rewards if it gets a combo of diversion strategy)

B/ - However; If player prefers just going there and not being discreet, he may and will have to fight all the guards around. If player is not discreet, target inside the mansion will try to hide, and player will have to find the target inside the mansion.


2/ The same as mentioned above - Different degree of AIs between the Free-roaming, stalking someone, and the restricted area, and make sure that the level design fits perfectly with each type of mission or situation that the player is experimenting.

3/ I agree with the customization, most of the action games by today' standard turn into that customization system because of the popularity. Player should be able to have an option to take and choosing their arsenal and gear and have a large panel of tools and gear set at their disposition. Assassin Weapons have to be improved and/or customizable accordingly to the advantage of the gameplay. Example: The darts system of AC4 is great, but darts can also be used by a hand/crossbow or the blowpipe for long range weapon, but the Ezio poisoned blade were great also for the one that prefer taking more risk and do that in close range instead. Bottom line, just let the players pick what they want and play the game the way he/she likes, let them preparing their strategies the way they like let the play player customize their character the way they like too.

4/ I see what you try to say with the blood, I am not really caring about this but I understand some players do for better immersion and it makes sense to me as well. I will be more focused about the combat system, once again combat system has to be improved toward the AI of the situation that the player is experimenting - (The devs have to drop the concept of the 3 to 4 different types of enemies that they are recycling since AC2) - Combat system has to be more challenging and based upon the evolution of the character (in live the biggest masters has to ones that are not afraid of still learning). If combat is still based upon the counter strike make sure at least that they are not always lethal, make some different hitting points for the player to use with strategy, restructure the kill streak system in making it only possible when the "Hero" is mastering a certain level in the game. Also make a system that player can use his/her environment to his advantage by interaction with items or structures directly in the combat. Make sure the combat system is less predictable, mechanical and repetitive for the player, but allows the player to use some strategies in order to reward his/her competences to be smart while fighting.

5/ AI radians and AI events like presented in RDR (Only game that was able to use it correctly btw) yes definitely yes. Also side quests or investigations, mysteries or myth related of the city or time period to resolves (Not stupid one like AC3, something the actually pay off to do it), secret dungeons (like the AC2's) ....

6/ Personal opinion, I am a bit annoyed with the collecting part of the game, notably the Darby's recycled pieces of Animus from ACR that are no really a purpose there (at least so far?) - I understand that some like collecting stuff during their play, but I understand it better when actually it does have a pay off.

roostersrule2
11-14-2013, 10:18 AM
^Indeed, RDR's random event system is king.

I think we need some of the advertised features of AC3, FROZEN LAKES!!!

salman147
11-14-2013, 10:57 AM
Here's a list of necessary improvements:
1)Better NPC animation.Some animations feel unrealistic especially enemy combat animations.They feel like they attack one after another.
2)Better AI.Much much better AI.
3)More diverse options to play in various styles like in Dishonored.
4)Much more complex and faster combat system:Batman Arkham Origins.Wish there's an awesome sword fight like the Deathstroke boss battle.
5)More weapon variety,more enemy archetypes,single and dual wielding like AC3.
6)More diverse challenging platforming puzzle missions.
7)More emphasis on verticality and rooftop navigations.
8)Better city architecture and a bigger more dense dynamic city.
9)Improved crowd stealth.
10)PLEASE ADD THIS: Investigating on targets for Assassinations rather than :He's here,just go and kill him.Please make us investigate in our OWN WAY by stealing letters from enemies,interrogating target's contacts or eavesdropping on others and staying vigilant.Please add this in side missions.
11)A type of gameplay that affects story in multiple ways with multiple outcomes.Example:The Witcher series.Or Dishonored.Yeah AC games should learn a thing or two from Dishonored.
12)Bring more new gameplay features.Like the way they did in AC2 compared to AC1.
13)Bring horses and horse battles at a great extent.And make horses killable.So that they aren't immortal in past AC games.
14)A better crafting system and unlockables.
15)Stronger enemy Archetypes.Like Janissaries from AC R and Brutes and elites from AC2 and 3.
16)An awesome looking sun-basked city like AC Brotherhood's Rome.
17)Add something like War Machine from Brotherhood.I missed those.
Hmm...let's see what else I should add.....

roostersrule2
11-14-2013, 11:05 AM
We can't have choices, well not in the historical part at least.

Landruner
11-14-2013, 05:46 PM
We can't have choices, well not in the historical part at least.

I regret, player should have at least choice and different ways how to get his target... If player decides to investigate and asking questions to some NPCs around him (Not like AC1 but like a Witcher 2), Player can follow a path and a different outcome and challenge upon his own choice player...and we get really a feeling of an achievement in getting your target.

A real investigation, and decisions based upon your own feelings and instincts based upon his/her responses you got from your own investigation and how you proceeded to do it, and you decide what to do...

Example: You have 3 NPCs and potential informants around you, and you pick one based upon you own feeling, you ask the question you need (you can intimidate the NPC, paying him, being nice or and total jerk to him) you get your information you need, you may ask another one, or go with what you got, it could be a trap or your information you got was right?...you don't know, and you deal the best you can whatever the situation happen to you... (For each target you have at least 3 to 5 different ways or scenario you could have to get your target)

It is actually what AC1 should have been in first place, and how Patrice saw the all game being back in time, before Ubisoft turned it into that mountain of hype.

OHIC
11-14-2013, 05:48 PM
We can't have choices, well not in the historical part at least.

Normally I'd agree with you, since it creates so many problems and doesn't always add something good, but I was just thinking: you could do it in AC if the Animus announced a patch of missing data. "You" ask for assistance, and the technician can't do anything to help. There's a gap in the record, they know how this bit ends, but they don't know what happens in between. That could feel really good, the sense of having to find your own way through. You'd feel more comfortable when you got through to the other side, but it would make you think about how safe other parts of the story can be and maybe yearn for another glitch.

Landruner
11-14-2013, 06:30 PM
Normally I'd agree with you, since it creates so many problems and doesn't always add something good, but I was just thinking: you could do it in AC if the Animus announced a patch of missing data. "You" ask for assistance, and the technician can't do anything to help. There's a gap in the record, they know how this bit ends, but they don't know what happens in between. That could feel really good, the sense of having to find your own way through. You'd feel more comfortable when you got through to the other side, but it would make you think about how safe other parts of the story can be and maybe yearn for another glitch.

I think the user that was originally posting "the choice" was referring to how to get to your target, not having the choice of historical outcomes.

thelastdisciple
11-14-2013, 06:40 PM
2- There are a bunch of RPG's out there to satisfy this, AC isn't one of them. There's enough customization already I feel, and devoting more resources to it is unecessary and they could be better used.


Yeah I'm with you here, i especially hate when a game starts to feel like you're actually spending more time in menus and less time playing the actual game, there's a point when it's just too much.

One thing I'd like to see though is the inclusion of being able to use disguises similar to Hitman for example. There's absolutely no reason that if you want to be at your most covert that you can't just steal a guard's outfit and infiltrate a security area while ghosting a bunch of dudes i mean it's only logical.

These Assassin characters should easily be the historical equivalent and in contrast of folks like Agent 47/Sam Fisher/Solid Snake who are from a much more technological era.

OHIC
11-14-2013, 06:44 PM
I think the user that was originally posting "the choice" was referring to how to get to your target, not having the choice of historical outcomes.

That user does mean choice. Dishonored gives you targets, but you make various decisions along the way that affect the gameplay. There's basic stuff about whether you're making the world worse, since every person you kill will be grieved by a hundred more, and if you don't keep corpses and incapacitated enemies safely out of the reach of rats then you'll feed a plague. More importantly, you can choose not to kill your targets and eliminate them in more interesting ways: they live, but they are discredited, disinherited, or otherwise politically neutralised. You take these choices, which may be morally better or worse than assassination, but there are consequences down the line. The DLC allowed you to choose life or death for a non-target NPC that changed the entire next episode.

The Apache
11-14-2013, 07:18 PM
Yes! Better assassinations! We need more variety on these missions. Like someone said, you can't just keep doing the whole "The target's here, go kill him. The target's in this area, just use eagle vision to find him. Tail this guy to find the target and kill him." They need a complete rehaul for this system, in my opinion. The systems involved need to go way deeper than they are currently. I'm thinking along the lines of GTAV's major heist system. Imagine planning out elaborate, multilayered assassinations. The only problem with that though is the narrative constaraints. Like, how does it make sense that 2 different players had different methods of assassinating the same target when this is a simulation with predetermined outcomes. They would have to remove choice from the equation for it to work. Which is a little disappointing. Is there any way they could get around this?

Landruner
11-14-2013, 07:35 PM
That user does mean choice. Dishonored gives you targets, but you make various decisions along the way that affect the gameplay. There's basic stuff about whether you're making the world worse, since every person you kill will be grieved by a hundred more, and if you don't keep corpses and incapacitated enemies safely out of the reach of rats then you'll feed a plague. More importantly, you can choose not to kill your targets and eliminate them in more interesting ways: they live, but they are discredited, disinherited, or otherwise politically neutralised. You take these choices, which may be morally better or worse than assassination, but there are consequences down the line. The DLC allowed you to choose life or death for a non-target NPC that changed the entire next episode.

Yes but as they use historical figure as target that died on that time period of time, it is difficult to change the history. However; as they did not died this way or still by an assassin everything is permitted... Maybe they could put some target that did not exist and you can do that? I do not know I am not playing an Assassin Creed for learning history anyway, and it is above all a science fiction fantasy franchise, so why not(?) as long as it makes sense...

Landruner
11-14-2013, 07:37 PM
Yes! Better assassinations! We need more variety on these missions. Like someone said, you can't just keep doing the whole "The target's here, go kill him. The target's in this area, just use eagle vision to find him. Tail this guy to find the target and kill him." They need a complete rehaul for this system, in my opinion. The systems involved need to go way deeper than they are currently. I'm thinking along the lines of GTAV's major heist system. Imagine planning out elaborate, multilayered assassinations. The only problem with that though is the narrative constaraints. Like, how does it make sense that 2 different players had different methods of assassinating the same target when this is a simulation with predetermined outcomes. They would have to remove choice from the equation for it to work. Which is a little disappointing. Is there any way they could get around this?

In a previous post(s) on this thread (second I believe) I give an example of what could be done , it looks pretty close to what you see the thing (?)

OHIC
11-15-2013, 07:22 PM
Yes but as they use historical figure as target that died on that time period of time, it is difficult to change the history. However; as they did not died this way or still by an assassin everything is permitted... Maybe they could put some target that did not exist and you can do that? I do not know I am not playing an Assassin Creed for learning history anyway, and it is above all a science fiction fantasy franchise, so why not(?) as long as it makes sense...

That's why I'm suggesting it could still happen if it just occurred in patches: like I said, if there's an announcement occasionally that there's a gap in the historical record and/or the Animus data is patchy. There are many parts of history about which historians can only speculate, and there are many very famous people - even quite recent figures - whose life's end is unknown. Also, there are times when it would be politically problematic for it to be publicly known that a person was the victim of a hit, so the game can say you assassinated someone even though the real historical record says they died some other way (and the majority of your kills are already like that, so this is no stretch for the game's fiction).

Landruner
11-15-2013, 07:48 PM
That's why I'm suggesting it could still happen if it just occurred in patches: like I said, if there's an announcement occasionally that there's a gap in the historical record and/or the Animus data is patchy. There are many parts of history about which historians can only speculate, and there are many very famous people - even quite recent figures - whose life's end is unknown. Also, there are times when it would be politically problematic for it to be publicly known that a person was the victim of a hit, so the game can say you assassinated someone even though the real historical record says they died some other way (and the majority of your kills are already like that, so this is no stretch for the game's fiction).

Ah okay, yes it makes sense, I just happened on giving up with that Animus part and modern day no sense, so yep, I did not see what you meant, now I see. Anyway, take the DLCs from AC3 with G.W. as a dictatorial King, it was set beyond a parallel universe, so yet, why not ?

Btw> Sorry for my spelling in my previous post.

Spider_Sith9
11-16-2013, 12:37 AM
Blood in AC1 was amazing. AC2 is what ruined it.

AdamPearce
11-16-2013, 02:07 AM
I thought of something for the Stealth and the controls.

What about a 'Stealth mode' and a 'Free-roam mode'. IN one the gameplay would much more based on infiltration and investigation while the other one would include the fight and free-roam system. That way we could have a fully developped stealth gameplay and not only half-gameplay. And to change between mode we could use like Down, something useless. What you think?

LordBloodWolfe
11-16-2013, 02:15 AM
1) Difficulty Slider
2) No more flying shanty page/Benjamen Franklin page collectables

Landruner
11-16-2013, 06:41 AM
1) Difficulty Slider
2) No more flying shanty page/Benjamen Franklin page collectables

Why?

AssassinHMS
11-16-2013, 12:24 PM
I'll just add the things that this franchise needs to evolve plus a few extras:
- Stealth, AC is a stealth game at its core but it hardly has stealth elements (shadow, crouch...). Stealth needs to evolve, not with baby steps like in Black Flag, but a real and huge improvement. Social stealth is still ridiculous by the way.
- Combat: AC's combat is crap. I know Ubisoft is too busy, working on ways to appeal to every kind of gamer (especially those who don't know how to play games), to have time to think about the older fans or about the actual franchise, but fighting ants is boring and the whole game suffers for this. Stealth suffers from the lack of tension and from how pointless it is, since combat is always a viable option (which is stupid). Navigation also suffers from this combat system (or should I say slaughter system) since it is navigation's role to save the player from a group of enemies and not superpowers'. Navigation, in the form of escape, is the tool to use when in a difficult spot (like when facing more than 3 enemies at once) and it needs to be developed and less of a "hold the trigger and watch while the game does everything". Combat needs to be hard, an assassin is not Batman, and if people want to play as Hulk then Ubisoft should, probably, just say that they chose the wrong franchise. However, nowadays, it is the opposite: if I want to play as an assassin then I chose the wrong franchise. Pathetic.

The ability to choose what weapons I want to carry: This is very important. If I want to carry only a hidden blade and some throwing knives throughout the whole game then you should let me do that Ubisoft. I'm not even going to justify this point as it should be obvious to understand the reasons behind it and because I have already done that extensively in other threads.
I'd also like to see a weight limit and an improved noise detection system so that, if the player carries too many weapons at once, the assassin will walk more heavily (which would increase the odds of being detected).

Many of these aspects have no excuse for not having been addressed before and, without them, I won't buy any other AC games like I didn't buy AC4 BF. AC5 is make it or brake it for me. If they don't address these aspects or do so poorly then I'm out for good as I won’t support this “gradual” fall of Assassin’s Creed. I also want to add that, AC4 seems to be, in a way, a step in the right direction, however that step it is too small and comes too late to mean anything other than a very, very small attempt to get some money from older fans. That’s not good enough for me.

I just want to remind you, Ubisoft, that those that succeed, do so by standing true to their principles and by working on their core pillars while those that sell themselves to the general public and give up on their identity, usually fail miserably or get their minute of fame and die forgotten in the next.