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View Full Version : Starting to figure out this contract system



swiftavenger212
11-12-2013, 11:17 AM
Alright so after playing lots of DM games and some wanted, I think I have a strong idea on how this contract system.

1) Max Pursuers: I have now seen upto 6 and Ubi apparently said that its a bug so I expect max be reduced to 3-4 (Hopefully 3).

2) Stacking - To me it seems that at a time half the players in lobby dont have pursuers. For example (8 player lobby) there will be a player with 3-4 pursuers, another with 2, and another with 2 as well, maybe one more with just one leading to a "race" to kill the target.

3) Position doesnt matter: To me it seems like a "cycle" where game will put on 3-4 pursuers no matter if you are 1st, 2nd or 8th.The probability seems to be higher if you are near the top kind of like old AC games but probability is lower than older games. If player in 1st position had 3 pursuers, then once hes killed game will place multiple pursuers on another player instead of himself.

There can be multiple players with multiple pursuers (3) at same time.
*These are not hard or tested numbers just based on from what I have seen.
For example: ACB probability of 3 pursurs at 1st place would be 50% while in AC4 it would b around 20%. Hence they increased probability for other positions in the score and lowered the top.

My opinion: I am OK with it as long as every player in top 1-5 gets 3-4 pursuers instead of top player being always pursued by 3-4 pursuers with the removal of hard stun abilities and chases.
Problem: The pursuer's targets will have multiple pursuers almost at all times leading to contract lost. This is frustrating for a player playing catch up in a game and is unable to get a kill because players rush his targets while he spends few seconds trying to get a nice kill or a poison off.

I went from 10 min mark to 4 min mark with only one kill because all my targets always had multiple pursuers leading to contract lost. Its more frustrating when there are runners in the lobby and will rush your target for 100 points while you try to go for 400+ kills.

This has led to many games with competitive players in lobby having different winners and many players saying "luck of the draw" for contract system.

Skill: This kind of system makes it so players have to make every kill count and get as many points off as possible and go for hidden/acro/grab/bench or variety on almost every kill since you may only get about 6-10 kills depending on the contracts. Now with this you can easily separate bad from good players in the lobby but its hard to differentiate between players that have skills somewhat close.

Either way these are some of the things I have noticed. I have seen players in 3-4th have multiple pursuers. I posted a pic earlier of me with 5. Also I joined a game late and with sbout 40 seconds left I was in 6th and had 4 pursuers on me.

czeuch
11-12-2013, 02:08 PM
Nice info! It would be really nice if we could get some insights from Ubisoft community managers on how should contract system work.

cjdavies
11-12-2013, 02:35 PM
I went from 10 min mark to 4 min mark with only one kill because all my targets always had multiple pursuers leading to contract lost. Its more frustrating when there are runners in the lobby and will rush your target for 100 points while you try to go for 400+ kills.

This annoyed me in AC3, I could be 8th but asssigned a target with multiple pursers and then hearing "contract lost", it was hard to regain score.

Ubi-Valentin
11-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Here is some insight from the Game Design team:
- We want all the players to have a target
- The rules are set so that you should have max. 3 pursuers. More than that should be exceptional cases.
- Your ranking in the session matters.

luckyto
11-12-2013, 05:00 PM
Here is some insight from the Game Design team:
- We want all the players to have a target
- The rules are set so that you should have max. 3 pursuers. More than that should be exceptional cases.
- Your ranking in the session matters.

Honestly, if you max it out at 3; it will make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the quality of this game. The contract system - as it is today - is the biggest problem with Deathmatch/Wanted. It's really game-breaking, or you just have to accept that some matches, you are just going to lose no matter how well you play because the game is against you. Some players won't accept that.

What's worse, stacking pursuers up to 6 is not only unfair for the target, it's really unfair to the pursuers. When I see a target has four pursuers, why even bother. And that kill will be rushed, so it hurts stealth too.

If you correct the contract system in a patch to what you prescribed, you will have eliminated the only real game-breaking problem with the game right now.

Localist2012
11-12-2013, 05:42 PM
Honestly, if you max it out at 3; it will make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the quality of this game. The contract system - as it is today - is the biggest problem with Deathmatch/Wanted. It's really game-breaking, or you just have to accept that some matches, you are just going to lose no matter how well you play because the game is against you. Some players won't accept that.

What's worse, stacking pursuers up to 6 is not only unfair for the target, it's really unfair to the pursuers. When I see a target has four pursuers, why even bother. And that kill will be rushed, so it hurts stealth too.

If you correct the contract system in a patch to what you prescribed, you will have eliminated the only real game-breaking problem with the game right now.
Word.

I especially know the feeling where on some games you have to accept that the contract system is against you and you were just not meant to win from the start, lol.

If more than 3 pursuers is only for exceptional cases, then it is indeed bugged. I've had multiple occasions where I'm on zero points and I have four or five pursuers. I once even had six after me and I was struggling down in 5th place..

Looks like it really could do with patching.

DeanOMiite
11-12-2013, 08:55 PM
i've never had any issue with having a bunch of pursuers coming after me...to me that just means more points are available for me out there somewhere in the map as I start stunning and contesting people. HOWEVER, going after a target that has 4 pursuers has frustrated me ENDLESSLY (especially in Wanted) in this game, and it's a problem I didn't have in ACB, ACR, OR AC3. I just get so sick of hearing "contract lost" over and over and over again. It's especially bad when you have a lobby with runners. I often don't even hunt a target with that many pursuers and instead focus on my OWN pursuers just because the hunt isn't worth it. Mostly though this is just something that really hurts the flow of the game and really makes a player feel handcuffed, which is not something I'm looking for in an MP experience. Challenge, sure...but this part just feels unfair.

swiftavenger212
11-12-2013, 09:58 PM
Here is some insight from the Game Design team:
- We want all the players to have a target
- The rules are set so that you should have max. 3 pursuers. More than that should be exceptional cases.
- Your ranking in the session matters.

Except these arent implemented or very buggy.

This pic proves last two statements by you wrong. I am in 6th place and have 4 pursuers.

http://i41.tinypic.com/nojb4m.png

P.S. This was a game I joined in middle against LocaWin and contract system still "punished" me for being "ranked" high.


It's especially bad when you have a lobby with runners. I often don't even hunt a target with that many pursuers and instead focus on my OWN pursuers just because the hunt isn't worth it. Mostly though this is just something that really hurts the flow of the game and really makes a player feel handcuffed, which is not something I'm looking for in an MP experience. Challenge, sure...but this part just feels unfair.


Its hard to do when game doesnt assign you pursuers.

As I said it feels like only half the players in lobby have pursuers while other half are too busy racing against everyone else to the target and trying to maximize the amount of points in very short amount of time.

Also its even worse when your target is a runner, you knife em just for another player to run in and take the kill. This rarely used to happen but it happens all too often now.

luckyto
11-12-2013, 11:20 PM
It doesn't matter how highly ranked the target with four pursuers is; such a contract system punishes the pursuers even more than the contract. The contract will at least get a contested kill out of it. 4 out 5 pursuers get nothing. Start at the top of the lobby with 2-3 and work down with 1 for everyone until you run out. Simple.

czeuch
11-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Here is some insight from the Game Design team:
- We want all the players to have a target
- The rules are set so that you should have max. 3 pursuers. More than that should be exceptional cases.
- Your ranking in the session matters.

- That's working, I would say.
- That's not working, I've had 6 pursuers once. Pretty much the whole lobby was on me :/
- The ranking IN THE SESSION, right? So if I'm 7th in the lobby, I shouldn't have 3 people trying to kill me right?

Not sure why did Ubi changed the contract system, it was working fine in AC3...

Ubi-Valentin
11-14-2013, 02:27 PM
The changes were made so that every player in the session could get a contract. I'll report your concerns.

luckyto
11-14-2013, 05:23 PM
The changes were made so that every player in the session could get a contract. I'll report your concerns.

That's not possible when one person has four to five contracts. They have to understand that this harms the hunters even more the targets. And they've clearly focused on stealth abilities and deceptive abilities, a contract system which puts more than three pursuers on one player in a lobby undermines that effort.

Undercurrent32
11-14-2013, 05:35 PM
That's not possible when one person has four to five contracts. They have to understand that this harms the hunters even more the targets. And they've clearly focused on stealth abilities and deceptive abilities, a contract system which puts more than three pursuers on one player in a lobby undermines that effort.

I have to agree on this.

To remove (almost) all "hard-stun" abilities and focus the game on deceptive abilities was a welcome change to me but with those you can only take on so many pursuers at a time.
When like 5 people are on you you can not hope to trick all of them, especially since lures do not cause the pursuer to loose their contract (which to me was one of best reasons to play low profile in ACB but thats off topic).

While it may be a fun challenge to have many pursuers on you when you are first, "many" should not be so many that it is impossible for the target to get out victorious and get an adrenaline and endorphine rush out of it. As of now it is so much that the best strategy is to get killed right away for as little points as possible which is just not fun :P

Also I when you see your target has 4 or more pursuers on them your best bet is to rush them, because you want the kill before the other 3 players get to it- and when you dont you you will have "contract lost" over and over. That's when you sometimes find yourself being hunted by 4 maniacs trying to rush you for 250 because else they won't get any points at all. Try to fend those off with deceptive abilities only. It's a vicious circle.

3 pursuers max. sounds like a reasonable limit, maybe 4 to really kill off a player who has been alive and in the lead for multiple minutes. Just please make it work ;)

tl;dr: less pursuers per player, even when they're in the lead.

gothpunkboy89
11-14-2013, 08:45 PM
Lets also not forget how they royally screw over new and low level players. lvl 13 and I still don't have any true defensive abilities. Morph and fire crackers are not real defensive ones. Morph is kinda of killed in defensive effectiveness because you start with the coin ability that defeats morph and by the time you get that you get fire cracker which also defeats morph. fire crackers can be used defensively but more often then not they lead to a contested kill rather then out right stun. And it's large effect pretty much alerts all your hunters to your location.

So for lower level being even in 5th or 6th place with even 3 hunters makes it very hard to protect yourself. Then when your own target has 3 or 4 targets pretty much the only way to play is to run the whole time. Get the kill before everyone else simply to score. and run to ensure your deaths give the least amount of points possible. Since the game lobbies don't seem to group you based on your levels this kind of exasperates the issue as to even attempt to remain competitive against higher level with better abilities unlocked lower level players pretty much have to run the whole time.

czeuch
11-14-2013, 09:34 PM
The nicest thing about this new contract system is when your target is killed by someone else, and then before the portrait of your next target is displayed to you, you get the lovely warning "Contract lost" again -_-

swiftavenger212
11-15-2013, 03:15 AM
The nicest thing about this new contract system is when your target is killed by someone else, and then before the portrait of your next target is displayed to you, you get the lovely warning "Contract lost" again -_-

I think the second "contract lost" thing is a bug.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1r8biqxODo

So I put together this video of wanted, and on top left corner I have 3 counters:
Contract lost - everytime my target was killed by another player. Also animus lady says "contract lost" twice each time but I only recorded that as one since I think its a bug.
Kills - Fairly obvious
Deaths - Times I die since thats not the contract system's fault that I died. Its mine.

Either way I finished with 6 contract losses, 4 kills, 6 deaths; However for first four mins of video I had FIVE contract losses, only ONE kill, 4 deaths.

Also a player in my lobby had FOURTEEN kills and ONLY 3.2k points in wanted. Now I have to say this is probably one of the other reasons why having so many pursuers is a bad idea. If your target keeps having runners as his pursuers too, then you cannot spend time to build up fora nice kill.

Also in the last minute of this video of a wanted game on portebelo, game assigned me a pursuer who was right next to me TWICE (this is wanted so I am sure there are other players who are much futhur away) and then my target was assigned and she was right next to me. In all 3 cases none of us had each other locked or anything, it was just coincidence.

sgoncher
12-06-2013, 08:22 AM
I've read all this and tried to correlate it with the contract system in place. Is it just me or does it seem overly complicated and incredibly annoying? Without rhyme or reasone to it, it's as terrible to be in 1st place as it is to be in 8th. Is there any chance that it will be fixed in the future? And as Ubisoft is obviously trying to get people to play sneaky and hidden with the point system, will they ever change it to number of contracts is proportional to amount of bad behavior? Like the people that run all the time and behave like morons get more people after them (which would be more realistic), while those that focus on being hidden would not have as many people after them?

Lethalla
12-06-2013, 11:45 AM
^^ This *sounds* like a good idea until people learn not to run. Then what happens?

ReaperSaga
12-06-2013, 01:12 PM
- That's not working, I've had 6 pursuers once. Pretty much the whole lobby was on me :/


Can confirm this, happened me a few times. Also, I once played a full session with only 4 people + me - I was 1st for the whole session, never had a target after my first kill and all those 4 guys were my pursuers. For all those 9 minutes. Luckily they all were new players and running around, so I stayed in the first place just getting points by stunning them.

czeuch
12-06-2013, 01:41 PM
4th w 4 pursuers is great either, or 6th w 3...

swiftavenger212
12-06-2013, 08:27 PM
4th w 4 pursuers is great either, or 6th w 3...

I dont mind if you have 3 pusuers no matter your position once ina while. More than 3 should be a problem.