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View Full Version : Jeremy intro (lead) donít play the harmonics !



sh1kamaru-
11-11-2013, 12:12 PM
Okay, that intro is probably one of the simplest example of harmonics out there, but I couldnít get past the intro without a strike.

I was filming myself to evidence the issue, trying various techniques to show that it wonít register. Accidentally, I found that you can get away with no strike simply by fretting the notes and playing them like normal notes. Not sure if this is the intended behaviour, but at least it will help some people.

VarriusTX
11-12-2013, 07:15 AM
Palm mutes can be skipped in a similar manner. I have a hard time getting palm mutes to register also, probably because I'm just not very good at it. I just skip it and play the full note and get credit.

wolfor_t_a
11-12-2013, 11:54 AM
But... that's cheating! ;)

Karrotten
11-12-2013, 12:13 PM
Do the harmonics show up in the lead chart then?

I only ask because (iirc) the harmonics in the intro of Jeremy are played on the octave strings of a twelve string bass (and I can't help but try and play them there as a result)

randomas
11-12-2013, 02:41 PM
Harmonics and palm mutes are charted, and even recognised to some degree, but they're not scored properly, since there is so much frequency variation according to how you play them, they'll just about accept everything. I think there's actually a quote from the devs somewhere about pinch harmonics being done that way...

Steamroller52
02-01-2014, 04:55 PM
Okay, that intro is probably one of the simplest example of harmonics out there, but I couldn’t get past the intro without a strike.

I was filming myself to evidence the issue, trying various techniques to show that it won’t register. Accidentally, I found that you can get away with no strike simply by fretting the notes and playing them like normal notes. Not sure if this is the intended behaviour, but at least it will help some people.

Yeah what a bummer, this morning I played Jeremy for the first time in RS14 and was disappointed to find that the harmonic detection is horrible on this song. Same as you, despite playing these simple harmonics properly and hearing them ring out loudly, I had to resort to just fretting each note so I can get through this easy intro section without frustrating drops. I tried 2 different guitars but the same drops, and not a case of the harmonics bleeding into each other because the very first note sometimes will not even register. My first instinct is the authentic tone in this section is kind of mellow and maybe too subdued for the game to recognize the harmonics, even though we can hear it ring out nicely. My last resort will be to try my Ibanez with EMGs to see if the active pups can help with harmonic detection on this song.

For all of the awesomeness of RS14 it's kinda lame that we keep finding cases of spotty note detection throughout the song library. And interestingly you play on PS3 and I played this song on PC and we both experienced the same harmonic recognition failures, so in this case the game's technical problem is not platform specific like some of the other cases we're seeing between PS3 and patched PCs.

EDIT: tried 4 different guitars, and the harmonics won't register on the 7th fret for all 4 guitars. Harmonics will register fine on the 12th fret and 5th fret, but for the 7th fret I must actually fret the note to get it to register. I tried switching to some other "hotter" authentic tones but it didn't make any difference. The one thing I could do with my Ibanez (EMGs) was to play the harmonic normally on the 7th fret and then quickly press my finger down on the string and make it touch directly on the fret wire--this helped keep the sound of the note closer to a harmonic sound than an outright fretted note, and RS would recognize it this way, but in the end I just decided to fret all of the 7th fret harmonics and be done with it.

demalion
02-01-2014, 08:31 PM
... My first instinct is the authentic tone in this section is kind of mellow and maybe too subdued for the game to recognize the harmonics, even though we can hear it ring out nicely.
...

I've wondered this sometimes, but....shouldn't the game base note detection on a relatively unprocessed input from the guitar to avoid issues with the distortion and additional frequencies from processing with various songs? It seems like it should be the obvious approach, right? I couldn't imagine why there would be a reason to do it otherwise, and would certainly hope nothing in the implementation somehow prevents it.

BazzTard61
02-02-2014, 03:26 AM
I find most of the RS1 ondisk and DLC songs to be very poor quality,either the effects are horrible,or note detection sucks, I think they threw RS1 songs together very quickly with no quality control,thats what they all sound like to me.

Three_Five_One
02-02-2014, 12:02 PM
I have no idea how to do pinch harmonics so I just fret the note. For example, the main riff in Cemetery Gates.

Steamroller52
02-02-2014, 03:17 PM
I've wondered this sometimes, but....shouldn't the game base note detection on a relatively unprocessed input from the guitar to avoid issues with the distortion and additional frequencies from processing with various songs? It seems like it should be the obvious approach, right? I couldn't imagine why there would be a reason to do it otherwise, and would certainly hope nothing in the implementation somehow prevents it.

Yeah I'm not exactly sure, but I know from experience with the original RS that some songs did have note detection flaws, mostly with certain chords, and sometimes if you'd try a different authentic tone from another song it would help RS detect it.

Steamroller52
02-02-2014, 03:27 PM
I have no idea how to do pinch harmonics so I just fret the note. For example, the main riff in Cemetery Gates.

I haven't played Cemetery Gates yet, but for pinch harmonics I just gently roll the side of my thumb against the string as I'm finishing with my picking motion. Sometimes I do this accidentally and produce these cool sounding "squealies" when I'm not supposed to. :cool:

Justin has a good lesson on Pinch Harmonics that helped me (http://justinguitar.com/en/TE-012-PinchHarmonics.php).

Three_Five_One
02-02-2014, 08:29 PM
I haven't played Cemetery Gates yet, but for pinch harmonics I just gently roll the side of my thumb against the string as I'm finishing with my picking motion. Sometimes I do this accidentally and produce these cool sounding "squealies" when I'm not supposed to. :cool:

Justin has a good lesson on Pinch Harmonics that helped me (http://justinguitar.com/en/TE-012-PinchHarmonics.php).

Thanks I'll check it out.

sh1kamaru-
02-02-2014, 11:22 PM
To clarify. I may be wrong but the symbol for a pinch harmonic is different from natural harmonics. In this case it’s a natural harmonic with a sustain. That just doesn’t work, but fretting the note works.

Pinch harmonics are not well recognized. I must admit I don’t risk doing them at all if I’m grinding. It seems some pinch harmonics are better recognized as other, I don’t really know how it exactly works, sometimes you just need to make a pinch harmonic while keeping the fundamental note, if you do a perfect pinch harmonics most of the time it will drop the note :/

Steamroller52
02-03-2014, 01:54 PM
To clarify. I may be wrong but the symbol for a pinch harmonic is different from natural harmonics. In this case it’s a natural harmonic with a sustain. That just doesn’t work, but fretting the note works.

Pinch harmonics are not well recognized. I must admit I don’t risk doing them at all if I’m grinding. It seems some pinch harmonics are better recognized as other, I don’t really know how it exactly works, sometimes you just need to make a pinch harmonic while keeping the fundamental note, if you do a perfect pinch harmonics most of the time it will drop the note :/

Yeah with Jeremy we're just talking about Natural Harmonics on the 5th, 7th and 12th frets. For this song RS specifically will not register any harmonics on the 7th fret for me. I can even play the harmonic several more times while the sustained note tail is displayed on-screen and the tail will only light-up for the split-second that I pick the string (D or G string), this will allow me to not miss the note, but no sustain points are scored, so in the end I'm just fretting the 7th fret harmonics like normal notes. FYI, I played Whitesnake Is this love yesterday and all of the harmonics register perfectly, so at least this seems to be an isolated issue just with Jeremy.

Brick235
02-03-2014, 02:10 PM
I had trouble with the intro harmonics too but did get them to register by picking a bit harder. Since you can do it at any point in the sustain I had a few attempts. So, not impossible but way more annoying than it should be. I think it is related to the tone used.

rogue203_1
02-06-2014, 04:07 AM
Yes, the harmonics on the 7th fret are broken in Jeremy. Just like the harmonics in Barracuda cause a fairly serious glitch on Macs.

Unfortunately, the only way to deal with it is to fret the notes. A lot of folks I've seen have had this exact same problem, even though the same harmonics play fine in other songs or in Harmonic Heist.

Tank-OR
04-29-2014, 02:05 PM
I had the same problem with the game not registering the harmonics in the Jeremy intro. Fixed it by raising the pickups. Now for some strange reason the Jeremy tabs have changed. Dont know if it was in an update or if something corrupted the file. Will steam allow you to install it again?

Brick235
04-29-2014, 02:16 PM
I had the same problem with the game not registering the harmonics in the Jeremy intro. Fixed it by raising the pickups. Now for some strange reason the Jeremy tabs have changed. Dont know if it was in an update or if something corrupted the file. Will steam allow you to install it again?

There was a fix to Jeremy in the last patch. For PC and 360 only I believe. You can see the patch notes in the stickies at the top of the support sub-forum.

SquirrellyNinja
04-29-2014, 06:28 PM
To clarify. I may be wrong but the symbol for a pinch harmonic is different from natural harmonics. In this case it’s a natural harmonic with a sustain. That just doesn’t work, but fretting the note works.

Pinch harmonics are not well recognized. I must admit I don’t risk doing them at all if I’m grinding. It seems some pinch harmonics are better recognized as other, I don’t really know how it exactly works, sometimes you just need to make a pinch harmonic while keeping the fundamental note, if you do a perfect pinch harmonics most of the time it will drop the note :/

Pinch harmonics aren't scored by Rocksmith 2014 given the wide variance depending on where you strike the string in producing the harmonic. Since there's no notation to indicate where that location is, it would be difficult to reproduce a pinch harmonic exactly just by sight reading and listening to the track. Rather than adhere to that small narrow window and actually scoring them, they are charted so people can get the best idea of how the song was originally played but not have any slight error counted against you.

sh1kamaru-
04-29-2014, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the clarification SquirellyNinja !