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View Full Version : Peoples opinions on what it is to be the "hero" of Assassins Creed



MIA SILENT
11-01-2013, 11:39 PM
I'll get straight to the point. I miss the times when the protagonist was first and foremost an 'Assassin' above all else. Whenever I try to decide what my favourite game in the series is I always come back to AC1, because something about it felt most like an Assassins game. I respect that the overarching story has evolved in to something much more than Assassins vs Templar's, and maybe AC1 was only intended to be an introduction to the order. But after 6 years, I think it's time again we get an Assassin that's focused entirely on being an Assassin. In many ways the titles that proceeded AC1 are better, but at the same time have been missing a certain something when compared.

What do you think, is it time again we got an outright Assassin, or are you happy with the current direction where the Hero's are more invested in other things?

Assassin_M
11-01-2013, 11:45 PM
I'll get straight to the point. I miss the times when the protagonist was first and foremost an 'Assassin' above all else. Whenever I try to decide what my favourite game in the series is I always come back to AC1, because something about it felt most like an Assassins game. I respect that the overarching story has evolved in to something much more than Assassins vs Templar's, and maybe AC1 was only intended to be an introduction to the order. But after 6 years, I think it's time again we get an Assassin that's focused entirely on being an Assassin. In many ways the titles that proceeded AC1 are better, but at the same time have been missing a certain something when compared.

What do you think, is it time again we got an outright Assassin, or are you happy with the current direction where the Hero's are more invested in other things?
Tell me what's the difference between Edward and Altair...now there's more to do, mate...that's just it...now we have MORE to do as an Assassin than AC I ever had.

We have Assassination contracts, Templar dens and Templar hunts and before that, we'v had Liberation missions and Templar Agents. It's sad that people NEED to hear "nothing is true, everything is permitted" every minute and see the Assassin insignia plastered everywhere to actually feel like an Assassin. If you want a repeating experience that never ends, be my guest...keep playing AC I over and over again till your heart's content. fact is, the Assassin order became a secret organization. its members aren't just Assassins anymore...it can't work anymore. There are Assassins who are bankers, technicians, tacticians, traders, land owners, nobles, merchants, privateers, hunters..etc

MIA SILENT
11-01-2013, 11:53 PM
Tell me what's the difference between Edward and Altair...now there's more to do, mate...that's just it...now we have MORE to do as an Assassin than AC I ever had.

We have Assassination contracts, Templar dens and Templar hunts and before that, we'v had Liberation missions and Templar Agents. It's sad that people NEED to hear "nothing is true, everything is permitted" every minute and see the Assassin insignia plastered everywhere to actually feel like an Assassin. If you want a repeating experience that never ends, be my guest...keep playing AC I over and over again till your heart's content. fact is, the Assassin order became a secret organization. its members aren't just Assassins anymore...it can't work anymore. There are Assassins who are bankers, technicians, tacticians, traders, land owners, nobles, merchants, privateers, hunters..etc

If this is the opinion of the people I guess I would have to play AC1 over and over again. Playing the Assassination contracts as Edward was all well and good, but they had no context. I could interact with those missions before even meeting an Assassin, let alone being inducted as one. What I'm saying is I'd like there to be another game where I play someone dedicated to the order again. Something I loved about AC1.

MIA SILENT
11-01-2013, 11:54 PM
fact is, the Assassin order became a secret organization. its members aren't just Assassins anymore...it can't work anymore. There are Assassins who are bankers, technicians, tacticians, traders, land owners, nobles, merchants, privateers, hunters..etc

This I can understand. I'm sure they could find a way around it though.

gothpunkboy89
11-01-2013, 11:59 PM
problem was the first game it was to simple. It was to clear cut a black and white set up you could say. Good (assassin) Vs Bad (Templars) The only complaints I had was with AC 2 and Brotherhood at least the Templars kind of lost that moral ambiguity that they had in first two games. First he simply wanted to control god then his son simply wanted to take over and become king of Italy. Not much of the "we might seem to be acting like *** holes but in the end we will fix all humanities woes" like first game had.

Revelations wasn't much better but they fixed it a lot with AC3 and even Black Flag.


Assassin's are more then just Assassin's though they are people and they can't be full time. If they did they would never be able to blend in. And even then they will not all be like Altiar was. I haven't completed Black Flag yet but Edward is a very human person. And so was Conor though Conor was a little to innocent to the way the world works.

Assassin_M
11-01-2013, 11:59 PM
If this is the opinion of the people I guess I would have to play AC1 over and over again. Playing the Assassination contracts as Edward was all well and good, but they had no context. I could interact with those missions before even meeting an Assassin, let alone being inducted as one. What I'm saying is I'd like there to be another game where I play someone dedicated to the order again. Something I loved about AC1.
It's not the people's opinion. I'm only speaking for myself and the Assassination contracts` context could be explained.

Spoilers for sequence 1 of AC IV
After Edward kills Duncan, he finds some things on his corpse...it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that he found a map detailing the pigeon coops around the cities and as always, his curiosity leads him to once again get involved with Assassin work. not to mention that later, James Kidd introduces Edward to the coops

ALL the Assassins were dedicated to the order...only Edward and Ezio so far only became entirely dedicated to the order in the final bits of their respective first games.

Assassin_M
11-02-2013, 12:01 AM
This I can understand. I'm sure they could find a way around it though.
True, they can and they have...Revelations and Brotherhood gave the Assassins a more gangesque presence reminiscent of AC I, which i found to be appalling, really since Altair dedicated some of his codex to talking about abandoning Masyaf and the public presence of their order, because all of this seemed like a "symbol of arrogance"

MIA SILENT
11-02-2013, 12:08 AM
It's not the people's opinion. I'm only speaking for myself and the Assassination contracts` context could be explained.

Spoilers for sequence 1 of AC IV
After Edward kills Duncan, he finds some things on his corpse...it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that he found a map detailing the pigeon coops around the cities and as always, his curiosity leads him to once again get involved with Assassin work. not to mention that later, James Kidd introduces Edward to the coops

ALL the Assassins were dedicated to the order...only Edward and Ezio so far only became entirely dedicated to the order in the final bits of their respective first games.

I'd like a game where we don't have to come up with our own assumptions to give context to something. AC1 was clear-cut, you're an Assassin and this is your duty. Would be nice to experience that again. I keep thinking a Japanese setting would be perfect for this.

Assassin_M
11-02-2013, 12:15 AM
I'd like a game where we don't have to come up with our own assumptions to give context to something. AC1 was clear-cut, you're an Assassin and this is your duty. Would be nice to experience that again. I keep thinking a Japanese setting would be perfect for this.
And why not? Why does EVERYTHING have to be clear cut? subtlety may be one of the most difficult concepts to hone, not just in story writing, but also in elements such as this one. elements exclusive to video games. it's not hard, but it’s difficult to realize we NEED to do it. We see the details in our minds, and we feel every one of them is important. First drafts are usually detail overload. Full of adverbs and dialogue tags. Whole sentences, paragraphs, pages that need to be cut. Getting it all out is natural to free the story from our minds. We can only begin to clear away the clutter once it’s all out on the screen.

'Subtlety is the mark of confidence… A writer who is confident need not prove anything, need not try to grab attention with spates of stylism or hyperbole or melodrama… He will often leave things unsaid, may even employ a bit of confusion, and often allow you to come to your own conclusions.' - Chapter 15 of The First Five Pages: A Writer’s Guide To Staying Out of the Rejection Pile by Noah Lukeman.

Lukeman goes on to say that books written by unsubtle writers leave you with a short-lasting fix. Once finished, you haven’t been fully satisfied. You’ll forget the book and move on to something better. It won’t leave an impression. When creating a story for a video game, the BEST concept to after is offer something to the player. you can either create a strong context with most details and leave some lines for the player to fill or you can create a bare line and let the player fill everything, the earlier is the most concept by video game writers..it gives the player sense and imagination. more involvement. more interactivity.

Legendz54
11-02-2013, 12:21 AM
This will only happen IF they decide to go back in time when the Assassins were an actual order before the 13th century.

Farlander1991
11-02-2013, 12:21 AM
Really, the Assassination contracts in AC4 just should've opened up in Sequence 4, then the context would be really clear.

Anyway, I really don't see the problem. Because, at their core, each hero's arc is still about finding a certain interpretation of the Creed.

We have an Assassin for whom being an Assassin was his whole life, his duty, his purpose. Altair.
We have an Assassin who got into the Order because of his ancestral line, circumstances and reckless desire for revenge. Ezio.
We have an Assassin who sought out Assassins himself to willingly join their cause. Connor.
We have an Assassin who didn't want anything to do with the Order. Edward.

And they all had an arc (or several, in case of Altair and Ezio who got a second arc each in ACR) which showed one way or another different faces of the Creed, both positive and negative. Not to mention the fact that their arcs also affected their personalities (but that's kinda interwined with the understanding of the Creed).

I view this variety as a good thing. Not every Assassin has to be first and foremost about the Order, and, honestly, I think there are still many more possibilities to explore before going back to the AC1 'Assassin only' way.

ladyleonhart
11-02-2013, 12:27 AM
Personally, I think ACI was the only game that worked in that particular way and I am happy with the current direction. The characters we have had are still Assassins, we have just been shown how they were introduced to the Assassin/Templar Conflict. While Altair was a Master Assassin and a great character, if we continually have characters integrated in the Assassin Order like that, it will in my opinion become too familiar and everyone would probably complain that it was ACI recycled with a new protagonist. Seeing how the heroes become entangled in the conflict is great and provides countless possibilities for a great story.

Also, I agree with what gothpunkboy89 said about them being human and it's what makes us able to relate to them. That is, their views, lol, opinions too, how they interact with other people, reasons for joining the Creed and even their flaws are what make them interesting characters.

Regarding having another game like ACI, Altair was great and he was perfect for the introduction to Assassin's Creed, however, having another protagonist simply dedicated to the Creed from the beginning and just following orders wouldn't be as interesting for me. Then, if they went on ACI's route again I think it would only work if the protagonist had a mentor right from the beginning who took him on in order to train him as an Assassin and induct him to the Assassin Order (not like Achilles and Connor in AC3). Then, I mean a mentor who is part of thriving Assassin Order and perhaps a protagonist who actually wants to join because he wants to be part of the Assassin Order first and foremost... Lol, maybe he wants to be one desperately, but his mentor tells him he will be one in time but to have patience. ;)

Anyway, I understand what you mean about Edward being able to take on Assassination contracts. I haven't finished ACIV yet though, lol I'm still only on Sequence 3 I think. :P The fact is, they can just be taken as 'assassination' contracts, if you get my meaning. Then Edward could have decided to embark on these simply as contracts that meant he would get paid. He is looking to make a fortune after all.

MIA SILENT
11-02-2013, 12:31 AM
Like I said I do respect that in 6 years the game has evolved in to something more than Assassin vs Templar's, and by now the nuances in the story are clear to me. I agree that leaving things to the players to realize is important and makes for better storytelling. "Clear-cut" probably wasn't the best word to use to explain what I'm asking for. I don't want the game to make everything obvious to me, I'd like a game that made me feel like I am more of a participant in the Assassin Order and their ideals. And If that meant setting the game further in the past like AC1, so be it. Feudal Japan would be great imo.

Gi1t
11-02-2013, 12:34 AM
This is actually a pretty pertinent thread, since people often dispute the essential qualities of an Assassin. :)


Tell me what's the difference between Edward and Altair...

Tough question. Maybe it's the sense of being a cog in a larger wheel of an Assassin group. The later Assassins were more newcomers to the order who used the teachings to pursue their own stories, and contracts often came from normal people or outsiders, rather then from superiors within the organization. So it might be interesting to have a character who is a normal member, getting tasks through a middleman instead of always conveniently being there to hear peoples' woes in person. In a sense, you might say it's being LESS of a hero. It's just a thought; I'm not sure if that's exactly what made Altair's role feel different, but that's what it felt like to me; and I can't speak for Edward of course.

I kind of wish they'd do this with the guild quests in Elder Scrolls; stop making you the god and savior of the guild five minutes in and have them actually treat you like another member. XD

Assassin_M
11-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Tough question. Maybe it's the sense of being a cog in a larger wheel of an Assassin group. The later Assassins were more newcomers to the order who used the teachings to pursue their own stories, and contracts often came from normal people or outsiders, rather then from superiors within the organization. So it might be interesting to have a character who is a normal member, getting tasks through a middleman instead of always conveniently being there to hear peoples' woes in person. In a sense, you might say it's being LESS of a hero. It's just a thought; I'm not sure if that's exactly what made Altair's role feel different, but that's what it felt like to me; and I can't speak for Edward of course.
Honestly that's how Edward feels to me as well, so far...the difference is, he's outside of the Order..not an official member.*STORY SPOILERS* the Assassins try to steer him towards a path more fruitful and aligned with THEIR goals. He takes Assassin contracts from pigeons, meets with Bureau leaders and offers help AND eliminates Templars...so...yeah. It's really just like I said. there's not much of a difference between Edward and Altair...just the context of their membership within the order.

ladyleonhart
11-02-2013, 12:40 AM
...He takes Assassin contracts from pigeons...

Lol, I know it's silly, but this really made me laugh for some reason. :p

Assassin_M
11-02-2013, 12:43 AM
Lol, I know it's silly, but this really made me laugh for some reason. :p
Not silly, I reread it after posting and I was giggling inside..thought i'd change it, but said naah xD

Toa TAK
11-02-2013, 12:47 AM
Honestly that's how Edward feels to me as well, so far...the difference is, he's outside of the Order..not an official member.*STORY SPOILERS* the Assassins try to steer him towards a path more fruitful and aligned with THEIR goals. He takes Assassin contracts from pigeons, meets with Bureau leaders and offers help AND eliminates Templars...so...yeah. It's really just like I said. there's not much of a difference between Edward and Altair...just the context of their membership within the order.

It's funny because he doesn't really "officially" become an Assassin in the game (or the last bit of it when he wants to join). It's more of an off-screen thing.

Farlander1991
11-02-2013, 01:04 AM
It's funny because he doesn't really "officially" become an Assassin in the game (or the last bit of it when he wants to join). It's more of an off-screen thing.

I actually like that fact, because (!!!!!!!!STOOOOOOORY SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOILERS*)

It's just a better transition for his character, that he starts by righting the wrongs that he has done, fixing the mess, and doing it right by the friend who died in his hands and still believed in him.
When you get to an epiphany moment like that, so to speak, you don't go instantly joining the Order officially and everything, you do it step by step... Just like Edward says, "One thing at a time, mate" :)

Toa TAK
11-02-2013, 01:49 AM
I actually like that fact, because (!!!!!!!!STOOOOOOORY SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOILERS*)

It's just a better transition for his character, that he starts by righting the wrongs that he has done, fixing the mess, and doing it right by the friend who died in his hands and still believed in him.
When you get to an epiphany moment like that, so to speak, you don't go instantly joining the Order officially and everything, you do it step by step... Just like Edward says, "One thing at a time, mate" :)

Agreed. I'm pretty happy with the way they approached Edward's development while still including the Assassins in some way.

plentybeef
11-02-2013, 02:23 AM
What does it mean to be a hero in Ac? This is really a tough question because I don't know which hero I should equate with and not just in the series but in all Hero's super or not. If anything prevails a hero should put others first before themselves. And from what I know Edward is no hero. Altair is neither a hero or a bad man he was just misguided and in that it's the only similarity between the two. Edward beguiled himself. In the end a sense of understanding birthed leaving both changed. I really like both story progressions.

I would like to see another direct approach like Altair. Some one who is dedicated to the order with no selfish and personal gain. But someone who is caught off guard like befriending a person who is close to the main character who happens to be a high level Templar. Think of "Point Break" they might be able to have a story in Modern day we just use the driving like a loading screen and maybe a mini game like you see people you have contracts on but it's not the normal contract like killing. But you gather information on potential targets but your not in The operation. Your more like the middle man who deals the information. But you should see the consequence like in newspapers or on the tv. Maybe someone talks about it in a coffee shop.

luckyto
11-02-2013, 06:20 PM
While I agree with OP, I would like an Assassin focused on being an Assassin in one of the games. I'm way more than happy to have Edward THIS game.

Shahkulu101
11-02-2013, 06:35 PM
I really wouldn't mind this, it would be refreshing to see actually. I would like to see an Assassin born into the order - carrying out his respective duties - but then he/she seeks more from their life, they carry out the orders but what does the Creed mean? Are we really the 'good guys'? You know, a strained relationship between the protagonist and the Assassin's.

I would NOT like to see a Straight-forward robot-esque following of the Creed, the fact that Altair's story WASN'T like that is what makes his story. What made way for almost the entirety of the Assassin/Templar lore being so intriguing infact.

pirate1802
11-02-2013, 07:32 PM
*Comes to give his two cents on the topic, sees so many spoiler tags and hightails outta the thread*

Escappa
11-02-2013, 08:10 PM
I would like to see that they use the fact that the assassin's now are a secret order. Altair, Ezio, Connor and Edward are all pretty alone during the time we play as them (no kids, not that many friends who doesn't know about the order etc). So I would love a game set in, for example, victorian London, with a main charachter that has a wife and kids, and a good job,, and is secretly an assassin and been so from birth. They could make a very good story based on how he has to ballance his life, how to be an assassin as well as a family man and a business man.
Something like the short movie about Ezio's father (can't remember it's name) when we see how he sneeks out at night from his family and stuff like that.
Would be cool to see what a charachter like that would be willing to sacrifice for his order. Like we get to follow him and see his kids grow up, we get to see how much he cares about them. And also see how much the order means to him, then in the end he finds out that his oldest son is a dangeorus templar or something.

Landruner
11-02-2013, 08:17 PM
I'll get straight to the point. I miss the times when the protagonist was first and foremost an 'Assassin' above all else. Whenever I try to decide what my favourite game in the series is I always come back to AC1, because something about it felt most like an Assassins game. I respect that the overarching story has evolved in to something much more than Assassins vs Templar's, and maybe AC1 was only intended to be an introduction to the order. But after 6 years, I think it's time again we get an Assassin that's focused entirely on being an Assassin. In many ways the titles that proceeded AC1 are better, but at the same time have been missing a certain something when compared.

What do you think, is it time again we got an outright Assassin, or are you happy with the current direction where the Hero's are more invested in other things?

It is not what the Assassin Creed series are about - They are not just assassins, but polyvalent protagonists. A bit like Zorro and Batman Lol! - They hide among us, and when they need they show their real faces - they do!. That you mention that the Assassin missions in game are a bit shallow and not really deep enough for feeling like one, I understand and I would agree with you. But honestly the rest of the activities are okay.(Except collecting Flags, feathers, and pieces of animus for making us to feel you are plating an extended gameplay) I am okay with the polyvalence of the Assassins of that Franchise. I believe Edward is a good hero/assassin and protagonist for this franchise or any one else.

Helrain
11-06-2013, 11:39 PM
Ok my two cents.

In the developer interviews, they kept saying how the game had such a big focus on Edward's internal conflicts over being an Assassin and a pirate. I'm on sequence 8 so far, and Edward is just a pirate. He's not an assassin at all, it's just that his goals very loosely align with theirs. I was really looking forward to the conflicts/reluctant assassin. I guess I just feel cheap, walking around in a stolen assassins robe, which he's essentially just wearing because he thinks it's cool.

I will add though, that Edward is still my second favourite character after Ezio. The advantage Ezio had was two more games than the others ;) I'm kinda hoping that next years game is AC4.5 (don't know if that's possible because I've not seen the end yet) so that we can see Edward transition into an Assassin more.

Much like Ezio who in AC2 was an Assassin of convenience, and went more and more 'straight edge' assassin over the following two games'

xx-pyro
11-06-2013, 11:45 PM
I agreed wholeheartedly until the end of the game. I hated so badly that it didn't actually seem like an Assassin's Creed game, because he never really joined the order. After playing through the game I don't see the game being as powerful as it was any other way.

AdamPearce
11-07-2013, 12:41 AM
Ok my two cents.

In the developer interviews, they kept saying how the game had such a big focus on Edward's internal conflicts over being an Assassin and a pirate. I'm on sequence 8 so far, and Edward is just a pirate. He's not an assassin at all, it's just that his goals very loosely align with theirs. I was really looking forward to the conflicts/reluctant assassin. I guess I just feel cheap, walking around in a stolen assassins robe, which he's essentially just wearing because he thinks it's cool.

This.