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View Full Version : why is the control system so stupid



tem1nat0r
10-25-2013, 03:55 PM
i've played all the assassins creed and i personally free running has just got worse with ac3 and 4

before you had to hold B or O to barge your way through a crowd when sprinting. in ac4 it does it for you why it takes away the skill (if any) of avoiding the crowds and it used to slow you down so it took some skill to avoid the crowds when chasing people. now its easy you can just run through them

also why is free running so bad it takes a lack of skill all you do is hold RT or R2 and away you go i mean it gets boring after a while. i mean remember that claw thing (can't remember which ac in) that allowed you to jump higher then you had to quickly press a button to get up to a ledge why remove that

also why can't you drop of a ledge properly you have to let go of RT its a pain you should be able to just press B and thats that.

also you should make it so it doesn't jump automatically because you could then have it so when jumping on crates and stuff you have to press A at the right time or else you mess up or something because currently i find it really boring when running to just hold RT i mean it jumps for you! whats the point of putting a button to jump if it does it for you. it requires no skill at all and should be changed! (not that pressing a button requires skill just saying it would be more interesting to press more than one button).

another reason why above is good is so that you don't always run into things when chasing people. i don't know if it is just me or what but when chasing people i find myself always accidentally running up walls or climbing things

so yeah TL:DR change the controls so when free running you basically just sprint and you have to press A or X to jump or climb

i mean come on doesn't anyone else wish this or is it just me?

Flutterwhat
10-25-2013, 04:14 PM
I got used to it fast. In ac3 i know exactly how the free-running system acts and reacts. I usually play slowly, walking as opposed to running everywhere, and jogging instead of full on sprinting when i do want to move faster. (pressure sensitive xbox 360 triggers enable this.) so I tend to have more control overall, because i'm not mindlessly passing everything by.

"accidentally running up walls or climbing things" indicates to me you are...well...unskilled at navigation in AC3. It's not that hard to prevent such things from happening. AC is more about the stragy of how you're going to take out targets. I welcomed the changes to free-running because i could look around while sprinting and it made everything much more fluid.

Sushiglutton
10-25-2013, 04:38 PM
Yeah I agree with you. The parkour has been designed to look good and be very easy to control. Problem is they have sacrificed too much in terms of precision and gameplay fun to achieve it. You feel a like a spectator instead of the one actually performing the moves. And pointing the stick in the exact right direction is too fiddly and result in silly fails, especially during chase sequences.

tem1nat0r
10-25-2013, 05:22 PM
I got used to it fast. In ac3 i know exactly how the free-running system acts and reacts. I usually play slowly, walking as opposed to running everywhere, and jogging instead of full on sprinting when i do want to move faster. (pressure sensitive xbox 360 triggers enable this.) so I tend to have more control overall, because i'm not mindlessly passing everything by.

"accidentally running up walls or climbing things" indicates to me you are...well...unskilled at navigation in AC3. It's not that hard to prevent such things from happening. AC is more about the stragy of how you're going to take out targets. I welcomed the changes to free-running because i could look around while sprinting and it made everything much more fluid.

so you have never accidentally run up walls or climbed things? not even in a chase sequence? i don't do it all the time i just think it would be better to have more control over it like sushiglutton said "And pointing the stick in the exact right direction is too fiddly and result in silly fails, especially during chase sequences."

Rugterwyper32
10-25-2013, 05:33 PM
I've rarely had that issue, where I've had it is mainly during chase sequences, so I can agree with that issue on chases. And I've found that to be a series-wide problem, admittedly, the only chase that hasn't really given me that sort of trouble was chasing the traitor back in sequence 7 of Brotherhood.
Besides that, it's a matter of speed control and paying attention to your surroundings. I personally like the current freerunning controls, as they give me freedom with camera control and are actually comfortable to use, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few things come back. I agree on tackling, it's too simple to deal with crowds now, though even back then for me it was more of an "avoid people while running" rather than tackling which I never used, but I can see why that'd be nice to see back. And make B work as it did in previous games so you can go down even holding RT. And grasping, too. But beyond that? Maybe just make it so it takes lower routes by default using only RT and needing the RT-A combination to go through the higher paths. But as it stands, I have very few issues.

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 05:45 PM
Yeah I hope they change this with the next AC. This auto climb thing is not cool, I like the claw better.

riftsNglyphs
10-25-2013, 06:00 PM
maybe you're just too dumb to understand why they changed the controls? whelp, they removed my claw, lemme cry and whine

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 06:04 PM
maybe you're just too dumb to understand why they changed the controls? whelp, they removed my claw, lemme cry and whine

Actually they removed the claw because people cried and whined about jumping off buildings.

riftsNglyphs
10-25-2013, 06:05 PM
Actually they removed the claw because people cried and whined about jumping off buildings.

and NOW that they're not jumping off buildings anymore, but people still whine and cry - thanks for proving my point

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 06:07 PM
and NOW that they're not jumping off buildings anymore, but people still whine and cry - thanks for proving my point

Because its crap, you can't chose when to jump to another building anymore, and the climbing is automatic and way less fun. You just hold up and thats it.

riftsNglyphs
10-25-2013, 06:09 PM
Because its crap, you can't chose when to jump to another building anymore, and the climbing is automatic and way less fun. You just hold up and thats it.

Yes...it was very complex to hold 2 buttons instead of one...2 buttons is very very complex...3 fingers pressing instead of 2...that's amazing
OH MA GODZ, 1 BUTTON??? that's so automatic

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 06:12 PM
Yes...it was very complex to hold 2 buttons instead of one...2 buttons is very very complex...3 fingers pressing instead of 2...that's amazing
OH MA GODZ, 1 BUTTON??? that's so automatic

I dont know why you are talking about buttons....

Just pressing 1 would be fine, if it didn't initiate auto climbing that was automatic.

riftsNglyphs
10-25-2013, 06:13 PM
I dont know why you are talking about buttons....

Just pressing 1 would be fine, if it wasn't automatic.

explain how it is automatic

Flutterwhat
10-25-2013, 06:13 PM
so you have never accidentally run up walls or climbed things? not even in a chase sequence? i don't do it all the time i just think it would be better to have more control over it like sushiglutton said "And pointing the stick in the exact right direction is too fiddly and result in silly fails, especially during chase sequences."

but if you work at it you can have a lot of control...i really have no problems, honestly. then again, i'm the type of person that loves roof running in boston, figuring out how best and most efficiently to move about. (i find that it's easier to back eject off one building to the next, for example.)

idk maybe i'm strange and unuseal but honestly the free-running system isn't as bad as you think it is and most likely has improved a bit in ac4

Flutterwhat
10-25-2013, 06:14 PM
Because its crap, you can't chose when to jump to another building anymore, and the climbing is automatic and way less fun. You just hold up and thats it.

guess what.
you can choose to not jump off a bulding or another building.
it's called
"let go of the bloody trigger."

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 06:16 PM
explain how it is automatic


Say you had two off set windows like this, the line is a ledge:

{EMPTY SPACE} #


#---------------------------


In anything other than AC3 and 4 you would have to find a different route to get up, preferably shimmying right, and ledge grabbing. In AC3 and 4 you can be on that lower window and just hold up, and Connor will do a sideways upwards jump.

riftsNglyphs
10-25-2013, 06:16 PM
guess what.
you can choose to not jump off a bulding or another building.
it's called
"let go of the bloody trigger."

jesus, FINALLY. THANK YOU

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 06:17 PM
guess what.
you can choose to not jump off a bulding or another building.
it's called
"let go of the bloody trigger."

I'm talking about free timing instead of automatic.

riftsNglyphs
10-25-2013, 06:18 PM
Say you had two off set windows like this, the line is a ledge:

#

#-------------


In anything other than AC3 and 4 you would have to find a different route to get up, preferably shimmying right, and ledge grabbing. In AC3 and 4 you can be on that lower window and just hold up, and Connor will do a sideways upwards jump.

this is faster. you'll be up there anyway, so why not make it faster? they made it faster (aka automatic lol) with Ezio's trilogy. before in ac I, you had to find ways to climb and it was SLOW, in ac ii onwards to acr, you can just zip up. oh wait, you probably like shifting the stick to the right to brilliantly maneuver through the complex puzzles of climbing the buildings, right?

Rugterwyper32
10-25-2013, 06:24 PM
Say you had two off set windows like this, the line is a ledge:

{EMPTY SPACE} #


#---------------------------


In anything other than AC3 and 4 you would have to find a different route to get up, preferably shimmying right, and ledge grabbing. In AC3 and 4 you can be on that lower window and just hold up, and Connor will do a sideways upwards jump.

Let's face it, though, besides the tombs, some of the important landmarks and some viewpoints, that's something you rarely had to deal with. You'd usually find a very simple way to just go straight up almost instantly. And even with the current freerunning certain design decisions could make climbing more interesting anyway.
And I personally feel that for tombs or viewpoints it could be interesting if rather than changing freerunning mechanics they could somehow make tools useful for that too. Like, say, have a tomb with a bridge that's stuck and use the rope dart to pull it and free it so you can proceed or something, I don't know. Using tools for navigation is something I've been interested in, they work for stealth and combat already but this part of it tends to be ignored, other than the case with the hookblade.

Flutterwhat
10-25-2013, 06:36 PM
I'm talking about free timing instead of automatic.

and you have that too, actually. you can be precise with these controls as well. instead of JUST holding up, why not hold up just enough so that connor/edward moves up just a bit, then you can stop. shimmy or whatever. and continue on. you dont need to constantly press up at all. you could back eject from whatever point you are on the wall. move to any side where connor/edward would be able to reach. you dont need to constantly move upwards!!!!

pacmanate
10-25-2013, 06:53 PM
this is faster. you'll be up there anyway, so why not make it faster? they made it faster (aka automatic lol) with Ezio's trilogy. before in ac I, you had to find ways to climb and it was SLOW, in ac ii onwards to acr, you can just zip up. oh wait, you probably like shifting the stick to the right to brilliantly maneuver through the complex puzzles of climbing the buildings, right?

You are completely misunderstanding the use of automatic. Ezios wasnt automatic, it was more FLUID. You still had to navigate yourself.

pirate1802
10-26-2013, 08:51 AM
this is faster. you'll be up there anyway, so why not make it faster? they made it faster (aka automatic lol) with Ezio's trilogy. before in ac I, you had to find ways to climb and it was SLOW, in ac ii onwards to acr, you can just zip up. oh wait, you probably like shifting the stick to the right to brilliantly maneuver through the complex puzzles of climbing the buildings, right?

Lol why not just teleport you on the top of the building, by that logic? Its faster right? Infact, why not have you sit through the action while it plays itself? Beyond: Two Assassins. Granted, it wasn't much of a challenge anyway, but climbing imposing buildings is one of the pulls of the series, Reducing challenge in the core mechanism of a series is never a good idea imo. And the zip lines weren't that numerous and unidirectional. I don't remember a single zipline that lets you zip up an otherwise hard-to-clib building. They were more part of the freerunning mechanism rather than climbing.

I never personally had a problem with climbing on the wrong objects, probably because I play with mouse/kb. Nor accidentally jumping off buildings. But this simplification of climbing was disappointing to me. Yes, in tombs there were a few areas where Connor doesn't autoclimb (thank goodness for that!) but it was significantly reduced from other ACs. I remember in AC2 I'd spend quite a while figuring out how to climb the Duomo, now I have autoclimb. Not a good thing.

In AC4 it seems situations have been marginally improved, going by the viewpoint climbing videos, but I'd much rather have the old Ezio system where you have to do that high jump thing at places, or use your hookblade. I remember WTFing when the first time in AC3 I saw Haytham automatically execute that high jump the first time.

roostersrule2
10-26-2013, 09:15 AM
I don't really mind either system.

Both have their pros and cons but out of the two I'd probably prefer the claw. I never had a problem with jumping off buildings whereas when you just have to hold down R2 you often climb up the wrong thing.

pacmanate
10-26-2013, 09:24 AM
I don't really mind either system.

Both have their pros and cons but out of the two I'd probably prefer the claw. I never had a problem with jumping off buildings whereas when you just have to hold down R2 you often climb up the wrong thing.

you are back!!!!!!

roostersrule2
10-26-2013, 09:25 AM
you are back!!!!!!To annoy you only.

Sushiglutton
10-26-2013, 10:56 AM
Lol why not just teleport you on the top of the building, by that logic? Its faster right? Infact, why not have you sit through the action while it plays itself? Beyond: Two Assassins. Granted, it wasn't much of a challenge anyway, but climbing imposing buildings is one of the pulls of the series, Reducing challenge in the core mechanism of a series is never a good idea imo. And the zip lines weren't that numerous and unidirectional. I don't remember a single zipline that lets you zip up an otherwise hard-to-clib building. They were more part of the freerunning mechanism rather than climbing.

I never personally had a problem with climbing on the wrong objects, probably because I play with mouse/kb. Nor accidentally jumping off buildings. But this simplification of climbing was disappointing to me. Yes, in tombs there were a few areas where Connor doesn't autoclimb (thank goodness for that!) but it was significantly reduced from other ACs. I remember in AC2 I'd spend quite a while figuring out how to climb the Duomo, now I have autoclimb. Not a good thing.

In AC4 it seems situations have been marginally improved, going by the viewpoint climbing videos, but I'd much rather have the old Ezio system where you have to do that high jump thing at places, or use your hookblade. I remember WTFing when the first time in AC3 I saw Haytham automatically execute that high jump the first time.


Yes! I also want to stress that a little interaction goes a looong way. Tomb Raider has more fun platforming than AC3 because you do something. It's easy and forgiving as hell, but you actually do something. It's silly because Ubi has a way more experienced and skill team of designers.


To annoy you only.

You failed as your post supported him in every way :p

roostersrule2
10-26-2013, 11:35 AM
Yes! I also want to stress that a little interaction goes a looong way. Tomb Raider has more fun platforming than AC3 because you do something. It's easy and forgiving as hell, but you actually do something. It's silly because Ubi has a way more experienced and skill team of designers.

You failed as your post supported him in every way :pAgreed. Tomb Raiders platforming is choice.

Or you failed because sushi's don't have strawberries on them.

Sushiglutton
10-26-2013, 12:08 PM
Agreed. Tomb Raiders platforming is choice.

Or you failed because sushi's don't have strawberries on them.

Have to admit I have never eaten strawberry sushi. It does look kind of disgsting in a way lol. I had a better sig before, but it was too large, maybe I should ask for a new one in the sig thread.

pirate1802
10-26-2013, 01:09 PM
Tomb Raider's platforming is perfect for me. Because imo, platforming should be easy and intuitive (not talking about tombs and puzzles, but general platforming as in traversal ). I don't want to spend hours figuring out how to jump from this point to that because then it ceases to be fun (for me) and more of a chore. But at the same time it atleast requires some input from the player and and you don't autojump across big gaps because you kept pressing a button. As I've said before, Tomb raider takes a lot of ideas from AC (eagle vision, hunting, platforming etc) and seems to do it better than AC.

phoenix-force411
10-26-2013, 06:19 PM
It's easily manageable, but it's still a pain in the bum bum. But I don't think I'd trade it back to the old version, because of those parkour moves...

SIR Phist
10-26-2013, 06:37 PM
I tend to agree there's no distinguishing between high and low profile actions anymore. The difference between jumping onto a ledge, and grabbing hold carefully gave me more control. I miss that.

The textures are confusing at times. I can't always determine what's a climbable surface and what's not, specifically rock formations. The textures in modern present gave me trouble. Trying to run up a wall for what looks completely like a handhold then feeling foolish finding out that with all the skills Desmond has, he can't? or won't climb there, was disappointing.