PDA

View Full Version : French presence in the Caribbean



GreatBeyonder
10-18-2013, 02:50 PM
A few thoughts on French characters you might meet.

1. The Jolly Roger was created by a French pirate named Emanuel Wynn who may or may not still be around during the game's events. He wasn't a particularly notable personage beyond his stylish flag, so noone was paying attention when he actually died. Not expecting much beyond a footnote, honestly.

2. Olivier Levasseur was running around the area at this point. For the unfamilar, Levasseur is best known for A) leaving buried treasure from perhaps the most famous heist of the era, B) Leaving instructions to said treasure in elaborate code, C) Wearing an honest-to-God eyepatch, D) Hanging out with Benjamin Hornigold for quite some time, and E) inspiring Treasure Island nearly singlehandedly. He only sticks around the Caribbean for five years though, and moves to Madagascar shortly after Woodes Rogers started his campaign. Also, probably a little sick of being the only Frenchman in Nassau. :p Not sure if Darby McDevitt enjoys his random cameos as much as Corey May does, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't at least get a mention.

3. Aside from Levasseur, French pirates typically hung out in Tortuga, not Nassau, so we probably won't see too many of these guys. At this point, the legitimate French authorities are far more interested in managing Hispaniola, or modern-day Haiti, and making a very different sort of killing in the process. So we'll DEFINITELY see a French presence in the DLC. As far as the main game though, I wager well be spending almost all of our time with Brits and Spaniards, and even then, mostly Brits as our main characters..

Any thoughts or observations?

Rugterwyper32
10-18-2013, 03:09 PM
Well, from all the maps and that, Tortuga will definitely be in there and the Haiti part of Hispaniola seems to be there, so at least there's no doubt about it. And while I'm not sure Wynn will show up, from what I can see of Levasseur it'd be quite the missed opportunity not having him around, specially considering he hung out with Ben Hornigold for some time and we know Ben will have some noticeable presence in the game.

TorQue1988
10-18-2013, 03:49 PM
I doubt we will see any french pirates at all in the game. In all the previews i've only seen spanish and english factions. But who knows, maybe those characters will at least get mentions, as you said.

Assassin_M
10-18-2013, 03:52 PM
please no more...I don't want historical characters "for the hell of it" AC III botched it so bad. "look it's John Hancock aaaand he's gone" "look it's James Barrett aaaaaaand he's gone"

adventurewomen
10-18-2013, 03:53 PM
The Spanish had a bigger presence in the Caribbean.

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 03:55 PM
please no more...I don't want historical characters "for the hell of it" AC III botched it so bad. "look it's John Hancock aaaand he's gone" "look it's James Barrett aaaaaaand he's gone"

To be fair, ACII and ACB were just as guilty (ACB less so).

But Darby was really focused with the characters in ACR, so I think he'll be really focused with them in ACIV as well.

Assassin_M
10-18-2013, 03:56 PM
To be fair, ACII and ACB were just as guilty (ACB less so).
Ohoo, both are a LOT less guilty than AC III. there was one guy who LITERALLY said NOTHING at all in AC III and was gone...he only appeared in that one scene without saying a single word...but look, he's famous...he's he's...historical...LOOK AT HIM

Jexx21
10-18-2013, 04:01 PM
please no more...I don't want historical characters "for the hell of it" AC III botched it so bad. "look it's John Hancock aaaand he's gone" "look it's James Barrett aaaaaaand he's gone"
they were in the game?

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 04:01 PM
Ohoo, both are a LOT less guilty than AC III. there was one guy who LITERALLY said NOTHING at all in AC III and was gone...he only appeared in that one scene without saying a single word...but look, he's famous...he's he's...historical...LOOK AT HIM

Iiiii'm not sure I know which person you're talking about :p

Assassin_M
10-18-2013, 04:08 PM
Iiiii'm not sure I know which person you're talking about :p
HIM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Newman
the second guy who was in Paul's Revere's house....the one being poured tea to in this picture

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121227143018/assassinscreed/images/thumb/3/30/ACIII-Midnightride_4.png/1000px-ACIII-Midnightride_4.png

Assassin_M
10-18-2013, 04:09 PM
they were in the game?

exactly

ze_topazio
10-18-2013, 06:17 PM
HIM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Newman
the second guy who was in Paul's Revere's house....the one being poured tea to in this picture

a picture used to be here

Nothing wrong with that, it's just a cameo, just like the others, not all historical characters need to have a big participation and be best friends forever with the main character, they are just there for fan service and it's fine like that.

Cornik22
10-18-2013, 06:38 PM
La Buse will appear somehow in Ac Pirates, but I'm hoping he will be in the main, since he used to hang out with Hornigold, Blackbeard, Bellamy and Williams.

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 06:57 PM
HIM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Newman
the second guy who was in Paul's Revere's house....the one being poured tea to in this picture



You know, that I don't have a problem with. It's really harmless, just a little background nod so to speak. I have a problem with shoving somebody for one or two lines and then never appearing again, like Benjamin 'find my almanacs only to see me once more' Franklin, or John Hancock, who we see referred to only once or twice, see in person only once, and Connor during the Pitcairn death speech refers to protecting Adams and him as a motivation, even though the only Sons of Liberty that Connor really knows by that point are Adams and Revere.

GreatBeyonder
10-18-2013, 07:18 PM
I confess, I don't comprehend this conversation. I'm personally quite impressed with the attention to detail. The entire series' selling point is immersion in a rich historical environment. It's not even particularly brilliant in terms of stealth or action, but that's okay, because Agent 47 never broke into the Vatican and Batman never beat up the Pope.

I don't know how someone can be irritated by Robert Newman in a chair. I don't think he was considering the Ubisoft forums that night 200 years ago. Outside of a secret bloodfeud with the Newman clan or some desire to rewrite history, I just find this entire discussion quite surreal.

Stealth Gamer92
10-18-2013, 07:50 PM
A few thoughts on French characters you might meet.

1. The Jolly Roger was created by a French pirate named Emanuel Wynn who may or may not still be around during the game's events. He wasn't a particularly notable personage beyond his stylish flag, so noone was paying attention when he actually died. Not expecting much beyond a footnote, honestly.

I would be ok if he gave Edward his flag, but that is about all.

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 07:53 PM
I confess, I don't comprehend this conversation. I'm personally quite impressed with the attention to detail. The entire series' selling point is immersion in a rich historical environment. It's not even particularly brilliant in terms of stealth or action, but that's okay, because Agent 47 never broke into the Vatican and Batman never beat up the Pope.

I don't know how someone can be irritated by Robert Newman in a chair. I don't think he was considering the Ubisoft forums that night 200 years ago. Outside of a secret bloodfeud with the Newman clan or some desire to rewrite history, I just find this entire discussion quite surreal.

Well, the thing is, where the tricky thing lies in AC, is that there has to be a balance. It's not just a historical museum, it's a story, and therefore you want memorable characters that have a purpose, maybe a story arc as well (depending on how important they are to the overall plot). And I don't have anything against Newman in particular, I actually think his inclusion is fine, as I said, it's a nice background nod, and having a few historical characters to have just one or two lines in passing may be fine as well, but then there is such thing as going overboard, and AC3 went overboard.

Out of the non-Templar historical figures, the only memorable and more or less fleshed out ones are Washington, Adams, Revere, Putnam, and Lafayette. But Connor also meets/sees/refers to without even properly meeting William Molyneux, William Dawes, Robert Newman (just checked, Connor is actually introduced to him), John Hancock, Surry (we don't even see her but she's mention several times), Samuel Prescott, John Parker, James Barrett, Benjamin Talmadge, Comte de Grasse, and I've probably missed a bunch (I didn't make this list from memory, but via a quick search because hell if I know who half of those people have been) because you just meet them once or twice and it's good if they say more than a few lines, there's just too many of them (and you are given all their names because they're historical characters and it's cool to have those there), and they take away time that could be poured into fleshing out other historical characters.

GreatBeyonder
10-18-2013, 08:24 PM
Ahhh... you're wondering how Ben Franklin gets a discourse on old lady sex and never even meets Conner, or how John Adams isn't even mentioned, while Conner plays matchmaker for Norris and Myriam... in the middle of a revolution. I think I see your issue...

TheDanteEX
10-18-2013, 08:55 PM
There is still a story to be told. It's based in reality, but just like in a movie, characters usually have a role to play. ACIII had a ton of useless characters just for the namedropping. Ben Frank-y had an interesting introduction and brought his character to life, but he had no role but to sign the Declaration, which, as I mentioned about a week ago, Connor had no business being at. ACIII has its historical history too tight. Like after killing Hickey, I believe Putnam says Washington just took off to Philadelphia. Connor can't catch somebody who left four minutes ago? I'm sure traveling wasn't as simple as "hey let's go to Philadelphia" back then. If what Connor had to say to him was truly important, he would have found a way to find him sooner rather than missing him twice in a row.

Anyway, when AC4 was still a relatively new announcement, I was excited because I believed there would be three different types of guard factions. But it seems French guards won't be present in the open world so that's a little disappointing. Still, it's nice to have some diversity with guards again. I loved the rivalry between Crusaders and Saracens in AC1 (did they attack each other?) and Ottomans and Byzantines in ACR.

Jexx21
10-18-2013, 09:25 PM
Ahhh... you're wondering how Ben Franklin gets a discourse on old lady sex and never even meets Conner, or how John Adams isn't even mentioned, while Conner plays matchmaker for Norris and Myriam... in the middle of a revolution. I think I see your issue...

who is Conner. I never heard of this man.

ArabianFrost
10-18-2013, 09:35 PM
The more important question is, where are the Dutch?

ze_topazio
10-18-2013, 09:37 PM
The more important question is, where are the Dutch?

In the Netherlands.

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 09:40 PM
The more important question is, where are the Dutch?

Way to the east of game's available area, I presume?

ForsakenMessiah
10-18-2013, 10:01 PM
A few thoughts on French characters you might meet.

1. The Jolly Roger was created by a French pirate named Emanuel Wynn who may or may not still be around during the game's events. He wasn't a particularly notable personage beyond his stylish flag, so noone was paying attention when he actually died. Not expecting much beyond a footnote, honestly...


Ermm no it wasnt, he was the first pirate believed to fly it, but he didnt create it, and his design only added an hourglass to it. The jolly roger was originally the colours of the templar naval fleet during the crusades (who are originally french by the way).

Since Tortuga is on the map, im guessing there may be some involvement with french pirates. The place is legendary for that time period, it would be a bit silly to miss the opportunity.

Coltillion
10-18-2013, 10:21 PM
What are the French going to do if they're in the game?
Run-away us to death?

GreatBeyonder
10-18-2013, 10:27 PM
Ermm no it wasnt, he was the first pirate believed to fly it, but he didnt create it, and his design only added an hourglass to it. The jolly roger was originally the colours of the templar naval fleet during the crusades (who are originally french by the way).

Since Tortuga is on the map, im guessing there may be some involvement with french pirates. The place is legendary for that time period, it would be a bit silly to miss the opportunity.

That's an old (and blatantly ridiculous) Freemason myth that changes with every telling, especially on the internet. There is no actual evidence beyond Freemason scriptures only a few hundred years old. Historically, the first proper mention of the flag belongs to Emanuel Wynn in 1700.

ForsakenMessiah
10-18-2013, 10:51 PM
That's an old (and blatantly ridiculous) Freemason myth that changes with every telling, especially on the internet. There is no actual evidence beyond Freemason scriptures only a few hundred years old. Historically, the first proper mention of the flag belongs to Emanuel Wynn in 1700.

OK i admit the origins are up for debate, but my main point was that it predates Emanuel wynn. Like i said he was the first pirate to actually fly it from a ship as you say in 1700, however the first recorded use of it by pirates is 1687 in a log book which reads "And we put down our white flag, and raised a red flag with a Skull head on it and two crossed bones (all in white and in the middle of the flag), and then we marched on."

Going back to your main post, I think it would be cool if Olivier levasseur was in as it is suggested he was a freemason, and famous for his cryptogram necklace that he threw out into a crowd from some scaffholding whilst shouting "Find my treasure, the one who may understand it". Could be a cool side storyline.

Sturnz0r
10-19-2013, 02:31 AM
The more important question is, where are the Dutch?

i know.. curacau, san martin and eustatius, aruba.. they may have still had those territories in 1715-30; no estoy seguro

GreatBeyonder
10-19-2013, 07:39 AM
OK i admit the origins are up for debate, but my main point was that it predates Emanuel wynn. Like i said he was the first pirate to actually fly it from a ship as you say in 1700, however the first recorded use of it by pirates is 1687 in a log book which reads "And we put down our white flag, and raised a red flag with a Skull head on it and two crossed bones (all in white and in the middle of the flag), and then we marched on."

Going back to your main post, I think it would be cool if Olivier levasseur was in as it is suggested he was a freemason, and famous for his cryptogram necklace that he threw out into a crowd from some scaffholding whilst shouting "Find my treasure, the one who may understand it". Could be a cool side storyline.

Especially since we've already found Captain Kidd's stash in ACIII. What's an Assassin's Creed game without a whacky treasure hunt?

pirate1802
10-19-2013, 08:53 AM
please no more...I don't want historical characters "for the hell of it" AC III botched it so bad. "look it's John Hancock aaaand he's gone" "look it's James Barrett aaaaaaand he's gone"

Exactly. Shoving in historical character just to be historically accurate is not the way to go imo. They should have a purpose in the story. AC at its heart is an entertainment product, not a historical documentary. AC III took it to the extreme. Even Sam Adams, who was being played up as an important figure, good friend of Achilles and all, was kind of forgotten halfway through the story. Same with Revere.


who is Conner. I never heard of this man.

He is the brother of Cunar and cousin to Cona..

Farlander1991
10-19-2013, 09:01 AM
Ahhh... you're wondering how Ben Franklin gets a discourse on old lady sex and never even meets Conner, or how John Adams isn't even mentioned, while Conner plays matchmaker for Norris and Myriam... in the middle of a revolution. I think I see your issue...

Well... yeah, but that's just a part of it. My issue as a whole is that a too big inclusion of historical characters for the sake of being historical disrupts the flow of the story. And that was much more noticeable to me especially because I knew nothing of the American Revolution before playing the game. And while I don't think that the story and events are unclear (I could understand what and why is going on fine with one or two exceptions), I do feel that the flow of the narrative and character interaction suffers because of all the numerous historical figures that we interact throughout the game.

On a side note, I cared about Norris and Myriam and all the homestead dwellers far more than about any of the historical characters present in AC3.